The genius of Kishi

[Piratefish]

Well the real world non-Naruto equivalent to the moon's eye plan would be something more along the lines of the plot of the Matrix... were you aren't really living your life but are in a virtual reality simulation. The difference being in the Matrix they made that simulation flawed too, but you could easily just make the simulation perfect.

And I agree about Hidan... I was waiting the whole time for some explanation of why he was so crazy, because I mean we at least got that Kakuzu was so old he was completely detached from reality and basically not human anymore... but I guess Hidan never really died so there couldn't be a death scene flashback..

Kakuzu actually has other reasons as well. Apparently he was sent to assassinate Hashirama by the leaders of Takigakure (hidden waterfall). Didn't work out. When he returned he was reviled for even making it out alive against one of the most powerful shinobi ever to live. He had enough, stole some kinjutsu (among them Jiongu) and escaped the village.

There's also a simple explanation for why he likes money so much, too. Money lasts.

It is perhaps the only thing in Kakuzu's life which has.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

True, true. In my eyes, no true evil exists. Only lack of compassion and great, but dangerous ideals.
Especially manga in which there is no typical 'good-guy, bad-guy' appeal to me.

Couldn't agree more, and it's because it's the way the world actually works. Kishi is just a master at getting you right up close and personal with the tragedy in people's lives that colors their world view. Loneliness, losing the people closest to you, betrayal he is great at portraying these things in such a vivid and realistic way that anyone could empathize with. Honestly his manga is probably better than most of the novels I've read in my life.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Kakuzu actually has other reasons as well. Apparently he was sent to assassinate Hashirama by the leaders of Takigakure (hidden waterfall). Didn't work out. When he returned he was reviled for even making it out alive against one of the most powerful shinobi ever to live. He had enough, stole some kinjutsu (among them Jiongu) and escaped the village.

There's also a simple explanation for why he likes money so much, too. Money lasts.

It is perhaps the only thing in Kakuzu's life which has.

wow I never realized about the money thing... that is great insight there I love it

 

[rollin]

orochimaru went evil cause his parents died

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[Kellyable]

your wrong with zabuza though it is true that the hidden mist academy had a one on one fight to the death to graduate
but zabuza was too young too be at the academy and he didnt kill on he killed 100 so he was just plain evil till naruto changed followed by his death

However, Kishi revealed that beneath that tough exterior, Zabuza was not completely evil. Naruto did not change Zabuza, he brought forth the kinder side of him. A person cannot change another's personality through pretty words alone-the feelings must already reside there, regardless of how hidden these feelings are. Zabuza is revealed to have always cared for Haku when he catches the rabbit for Haku. He didn't have to-this action was purely for Haku's feelings.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

orochimaru went evil cause his parents died

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Didn't seeing Tsunade's reaction to Nawaki and Dan's death along with all the other's during the world war also shake him? Either way his major flaw is his repulsion at the fragility of human life...

 

[Piratefish]

orochimaru went evil cause his parents died

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I wonder what the **** Orochi's parents looked like

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

That's all true except Madara (and that is simply we don't know his reasons for the moon eye plan and why he thinks the way he does for sure)

 

[JasonTheArgonaut]

However, Kishi revealed that beneath that tough exterior, Zabuza was not completely evil. Naruto did not change Zabuza, he brought forth the kinder side of him. A person cannot change another's personality through pretty words alone-the feelings must already reside there, regardless of how hidden these feelings are. Zabuza is revealed to have always cared for Haku when he catches the rabbit for Haku. He didn't have to-this action was purely for Haku's feelings.

could be he had a kinder side to him everybody does

look at sasuke's face when he see's the great naruto bridge
nagato dying while undoing his wrongs
i bet madara was kind to izuna and the other uchiha's
orochimaru is just plain sick

 

[JasonTheArgonaut]

That's all true except Madara (and that is simply we don't know his reasons for the moon eye plan and why he thinks the way he does for sure)

yeah we do
he cant live in peace cuz there was no more peace for him to go to his brother sacrificed his eyes so madara could see and lead the uchiha's to fight the senju's

 

[Kamikage]

Kakuzu actually has other reasons as well. Apparently he was sent to assassinate Hashirama by the leaders of Takigakure (hidden waterfall). Didn't work out. When he returned he was reviled for even making it out alive against one of the most powerful shinobi ever to live. He had enough, stole some kinjutsu (among them Jiongu) and escaped the village.

There's also a simple explanation for why he likes money so much, too. Money lasts.

It is perhaps the only thing in Kakuzu's life which has.

Nice. It makes sense...

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

You expect me to read this crap?

Sorry I thought people would appreciate a thread like this. So far its been pretty positive feedback wise but thanks for the insight....

What would you prefer to read just out of curiosity...

 

[jsrhoden]

Agree with this, the concept of the story technically not having any villains definitely adds to the overall realism of the plot and the characters themselves, which does make it a deeper story. However I think that it has it's drawbacks as well. I find that in a story like Naruto there are so many villains that have had a complex past that too often there's the potential for them to go through a phase of self reflection and turn good again instantaneously (one might call that TNJ in some instances). Also some of the reasons for which they turn evil aren't really sufficient (Obito turning evil IMO was kinda weak and has in effect ruined his image).

For me, it's good to have some complex villains, but once in a while I need a character who is just pure evil incarnate, no strings attached. It's probably why a lot of people have turned their heads to Orochimaru and Madara now to provide the evil side of the story as the "true villains", because it's becoming more likely that Obito is gonna turn good again.

 

[Tsujan9484]

It has been quite a while that I have not seen such great threads on NB....Hats off to you...