Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

[Piratefish]

Woah, I didn't even notice this. The little panels that are focused specifically on Obito and Kakashi's eyes,

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here's one. I'm not too interested in their Susanoo, because I doubt it will compare to Madara's EMS or even Sasuke's EMS. Shisui's eyes could've solved everybody's problems.

I'm very interested if only to see if it's possible for them to create a DIMENSION CONTROLLING SPIRIT GUARIDAN. Also, because the versions of Kamui are so very different from Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, I've no doubt Kamui-Susano'o would be completely unique as well.

 

[Omnipotent]

I'm very interested if only to see if it's possible for them to create a DIMENSION CONTROLLING SPIRIT GUARIDAN. Also, because the versions of Kamui are so very different from Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, I've no doubt Kamui-Susano'o would be completely unique as well.

That seems a little far-fetched in my opinion. So a Kamui Susanoo will just warp in and out of dimensions slashing everybody for fun? I like that idea

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

loooool massacre. tsunade alone is enough let alone two people above her. kakashis kamui outmatches any s/t tobirama had

wheres this stated? oh yeah you made that up out of your ass

where? show me a manga link of him being revered like that. wait you cant. meaning you made that up out of your ass

Tobirama was primarily known for his mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or producing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. This amongst other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.

Tobirama was also shown to have great physical prowess and a considerable amount of skill in the area of taijutsu, as well as good teamwork with his elder brother, Hashirama Senju.

That answers your question.

 

[Omnipotent]

Tobirama was primarily known for his mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or producing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. This amongst other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.

Tobirama was also shown to have great physical prowess and a considerable amount of skill in the area of taijutsu, as well as good teamwork with his elder brother, Hashirama Senju.

That answers your question.

Thanks for the save, although it was kinda late . Rep

EDIT: It wont let me give you rep, it appears I already did

 

[Piratefish]

That seems a little far-fetched in my opinion. So a Kamui Susanoo will just warp in and out of dimensions slashing everybody for fun? I like that idea

That's what I'm hoping, but not expecting...

 

[Omnipotent]

That's what I'm hoping, but not expecting...

I think that'd be just unfair.

 

[ElectricClover]

This is Kinkaku team time period? Yeah, Tobirama just revives his late brother Hashirama and the two of them rape their opponents up and down. Kakashi aint nothin vs the 1st.

 

[Piratefish]

This is Kinkaku team time period? Yeah, Tobirama just revives his late brother Hashirama and the two of them rape their opponents up and down. Kakashi aint nothin vs the 1st.

For Edo Tensei to work he has to either have prepared it beforehand or be able to kill one of his three opponents AND have enough time to complete the ritual. Tobirama's Edo Tensei is pretty weak besides, inferior to even Orochimaru's. I don't think Team 2 have any trouble even if he has prepared a (severely weakened) edo Hashirama.

 

[Temple]

Tobirama for obvious reason, this is stupid.

 

[Piratefish]

Tobirama for obvious reason, this is stupid.

The obvious reasons of being both significantly weaker than Hashirama (though even he might have trouble with this combo) fighting three Kage-level shinobi where two have excellent teamwork, one of them able to match him in Suitonjutsu (or at least nearly) and far exceed him in S/T jutsu (according to Minato), one able to completely dominate him in taijutsu, and one able to destroy him in a single blow, dodge on a fantastic level, tank everything he's got anyway if the dodging doesn't work, AND heal the other two?

The outcome DOES seem pretty obvious to me too, but we don't exactly seem to be on the same wavelength...

 

[Chatte]

This is Kinkaku team time period? Yeah, Tobirama just revives his late brother Hashirama and the two of them rape their opponents up and down. Kakashi aint nothin vs the 1st.

You do know that Edo Tensei takes prep time, right?

 

[Boskarta]

Kakashi solo's with Kamui.

LOL, no not going to be that guy.

But yeah I think team 2 take this, but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

We don't know a lot but based on what we know Tobirama has a s/t technique which from the way Minato talks about it is teleporting, probably somewhat similar to Obito's but not as fast and not going in to another dimension.
So we can assume he can dodge fairly well.

Tobirama could get away from Kamui with s/t. Kakashi's is nowhere near as fast as Obito's which Minato got away from, it's easy to tell when Kakashi is using it on you(see Deidara fight) you feel your body warping so Tobirama could teleport away from that.
He also has Edo Tensei.
Unknown who he can revive but presumably he would revive Uchiha clan members to fight against them rather than disgrace his own clan.
His Suiton is apparently unmatched(say what you want about Kisame but he needs water or Samehada to be good)

one of them able to match him in Suitonjutsu (or at least nearly)

^What? I assume you mean Kakashi? Water Wall isn't that good that's basically all he has, I doubt water is a good defense against water and Water Dragon has yet to be that good.

Other than healing Tsunade wouldn't be that useful in this fight...


I think team 2 would win mainly because Kakashi and Gai are just an epic duo and would overwhelm Tobirama, but it would be close.

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Thanks for the save, although it was kinda late . Rep

EDIT: It wont let me give you rep, it appears I already did

Anytime dude

 

[Piratefish]

Kakashi solo's with Kamui.

LOL, no not going to be that guy.

But yeah I think team 2 take this, but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

We don't know a lot but based on what we know Tobirama has a s/t technique which from the way Minato talks about it is teleporting, probably somewhat similar to Obito's but not as fast and not going in to another dimension.
So we can assume he can dodge fairly well.

Tobirama could get away from Kamui with s/t. Kakashi's is nowhere near as fast as Obito's which Minato got away from, it's easy to tell when Kakashi is using it on you(see Deidara fight) you feel your body warping so Tobirama could teleport away from that.
He also has Edo Tensei.
Unknown who he can revive but presumably he would revive Uchiha clan members to fight against them rather than disgrace his own clan.
His Suiton is apparently unmatched(say what you want about Kisame but he needs water or Samehada to be good)

^What? I assume you mean Kakashi? Water Wall isn't that good that's basically all he has, I doubt water is a good defense against water and Water Dragon has yet to be that good.

Other than healing Tsunade wouldn't be that useful in this fight...


I think team 2 would win mainly because Kakashi and Gai are just an epic duo and would overwhelm Tobirama, but it would be close.

We have no idea what Tobirama's S/T is (I'm leaning towards some sort of dimensional pocket filled entirely with water) but assuming he can dodge Kamui with it? Seems unlikely, not least because Minato stated Kamui to be far superior to it. I'm aware it was Obito's Kamui, but they are more or less equal in potency, at least now that Kakashi has become more capable with it.

Kakashi can use the Water Wall, Clone, Shark Bullet, Great Waterfall and Dragon Bullet. None of these are on the scale of Tobirama's rumored ability, but Great Waterfall is about as large as Tobirama's jutsu agains Hiruzen. Note that I'm not suggesting this battle is anywhere near his limits, but rather that Kakashi has shown an aptitude for Water Release and more importantly nullifying even Master Water users moves before. If there is a nearby water source Kakashi can nullify his techniques for a while, though Tobirama could easily outlast him in a pure ninjutsu battle.

Kakashi is also capable with Earth Walls, which posses the elemental advantage against water. Tobirama has shown himself capable of carving through Hiruzen's mud wall, so it may not make much of a difference.

Gai would eventually overwhelm him in taijutsu, and could end the match with a well-placed Hirudora.

Tsunade could heal and replenish the Eternal Rivals in terms of chakra, or take to the field herself.

 

[Omnipotent]

Kakashi solo's with Kamui.

LOL, no not going to be that guy.

But yeah I think team 2 take this, but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

We don't know a lot but based on what we know Tobirama has a s/t technique which from the way Minato talks about it is teleporting, probably somewhat similar to Obito's but not as fast and not going in to another dimension.
So we can assume he can dodge fairly well.

Tobirama could get away from Kamui with s/t. Kakashi's is nowhere near as fast as Obito's which Minato got away from, it's easy to tell when Kakashi is using it on you(see Deidara fight) you feel your body warping so Tobirama could teleport away from that.
He also has Edo Tensei.
Unknown who he can revive but presumably he would revive Uchiha clan members to fight against them rather than disgrace his own clan.
His Suiton is apparently unmatched(say what you want about Kisame but he needs water or Samehada to be good)

^What? I assume you mean Kakashi? Water Wall isn't that good that's basically all he has, I doubt water is a good defense against water and Water Dragon has yet to be that good.

Other than healing Tsunade wouldn't be that useful in this fight...


I think team 2 would win mainly because Kakashi and Gai are just an epic duo and would overwhelm Tobirama, but it would be close.

It took the Kinkaku Force to overwhelm Tobirama, and remember, there were 20 of them. They were certainly above Jonin level, although I wouldn't say that they would be allowed to be around Kakashi and Gai's level; remember once again, there were 20 of them. If Tobirama has only been shown to lose to that (and they don't show HOW he lost to these people, other than that he was used as bait and as a sacrifice essentially), I doubt that Kakashi and Gai can take him.

Just my opinion.

 

[Piratefish]

It took the Kinkaku Force to overwhelm Tobirama, and remember, there were 20 of them. They were certainly above Jonin level, although I wouldn't say that they would be allowed to be around Kakashi and Gai's level; remember once again, there were 20 of them. If Tobirama has only been shown to lose to that (and they don't show HOW he lost to these people, other than that he was used as bait and as a sacrifice essentially), I doubt that Kakashi and Gai can take him.

Just my opinion.

Ah, but remember that Tobirama knew he would be overwhelmed, even with the help of both Hiruzen AND Danzou, as well as whoever was with them, don't recall exactly who. Hiruzen at that age was good enough to become Hokage immediately after Tobirama died, and Danzou was his rival (and probably closest rival candidate). If Tobirama was sure the Kinkaku Force would overwhelm even three Kage-level shinobi you can't use their numbers as a testament to Tobirama's strength.

 

[Omnipotent]

Ah, but remember that Tobirama knew he would be overwhelmed, even with the help of both Hiruzen AND Danzou, as well as whoever was with them, don't recall exactly who. Hiruzen at that age was good enough to become Hokage immediately after Tobirama died, and Danzou was his rival (and probably closest rival candidate). If Tobirama was sure the Kinkaku Force would overwhelm even three Kage-level shinobi you can't use their numbers as a testament to Tobirama's strength.

Not exactly. He wanted the younger generation of Konoha to live, which means he was sure that at LEAST one of them would die, but not necessarily himself. This also shows that he is 'an inheritor of the Will of Fire' by his selflessness; he is willing to die for any one of his students/comrades.

 

[Piratefish]

Not exactly. He wanted the younger generation of Konoha to live, which means he was sure that at LEAST one of them would die, but not necessarily himself. This also shows that he is 'an inheritor of the Will of Fire' by his selflessness; he is willing to die for any one of his students/comrades.

The Hokage is the most important member of the village, so he SHOULD be willing to sacrifice a ninja or two for the sake of his own existence. That's why Konoha has walls, and guards on those walls, and bodyguard ANBU. Sacrificing a potential Kage for the sake of an established and effective Kage makes logical sense.

 

[Omnipotent]

The Hokage is the most important member of the village, so he SHOULD be willing to sacrifice a ninja or two for the sake of his own existence. That's why Konoha has walls, and guards on those walls, and bodyguard ANBU. Sacrificing a potential Kage for the sake of an established and effective Kage makes logical sense.

Why would he let several S-rank and Kage-level shinobi/kunoichi die for his own sake? That greatly contradicts the Will of Fire, which Hiruzen got from both Hashirama and Tobirama.

 

[Piratefish]

Why would he let several S-rank and Kage-level shinobi/kunoichi die for his own sake? That greatly contradicts the Will of Fire, which Hiruzen got from both Hashirama and Tobirama.

In Danzo's memories it is presented as a "one stays behind and stalls them" type situation. Tobirama'd be sacrificing a single low S-rank shinobi to save one high S-rank, as well as maintaining Konoha's image to a degree, as the death of a Kage always equals loss of prestige, unless people believe he "killed the Kyuubi" or some such. No only that but there'd be a fair amount of inner turmoil as the powerbase shifted (either drastically or not so much) and there's no guarantee the new Kage would be as good as he was. He'd deprive the Senju clan of a head, and Konoha as a whole of his extensive knowledge and experience. It's also possible he could resurrect the lost shinobi in some way to either say farewell or serve on even in death.