The Mangekyou Sharingan warps Space/Time

[Piratefish]

DrProof's recent thread concerning Tsukuyomi's possible position as a Time/Space Genjutsu has given me some inspiration, so all credit to him.

Let's take a look at the Mangekyou's only CONFIRMED S/T jutsu: Kamui.

Kamui (Kakashi version) works by building up chakra in one eye and opening a portal in the area the user is looking at, warping the target away. The most similar jutsu in the Narutoverse to Kamui is...

Amaterasu, which works by building up chakra in one eye and mysteriously spawning black fire in the area the user is looking at, burning the target away. The buildup and execution of both techniques are near-identical, which begs the question:

Is Amaterasu an S/T ninjutsu?

Could Amaterasu in fact be a tech in which the user opens a portal to a realm of black fire (REALM OF BLACK FIRE)?

This idea is certainly supported by the fact that Kamui and Amaterasu are EXTREMELY similar, as well as the fact that Amaterasu-fire appears to be completely unique in the (main?) Narutoverse reality. The fact that the MS already shows a natural propensity towards S/T techs with Kamui (and, possibly, Tsukuyomi) is just icing on the cake.

But if all else fails to convince, just try to imagine, what would an Uchiha do with the ability to access other dimensions? If you feel the answer is (BURN EVERYTHING) with the (REALM OF BLACK FIRE), support this theory.



P.S.: The Susano'o is a combination of Mangekyou techniques exclusive to those who have achieved both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. Both of these can be said to be S/T techs, so is it possible that Susano'o is as well?

My personal belief is yes.

Flooding both Mangekyou eyes with chakra (which seems to be how Susano'o works) to somehow produce a spectral guardian seems pretty unlikely, by any standard. Producing a spectral guardian stated (by Madara) to rival a Tailed Beast, a being composed solely of chakra in amounts FAR beyond ANY normal human (even any Uchiha) seems ridiculously unlikely.

Perhaps Susano'o is a guardian spirit from another dimension, taking its payment in chakra and pain? (didn't Itachi state that every moment with Susano'o active was agony?)

 

[Waltz]

Why not post this there, instead of making a new thread about something that's already being discussed?

 

[Sexy Steel]

interesting speculation you have for amaterasu there

+ rep

 

[3MESSIAH]

i know what you mean but this is getting out of hand...i mean if we follow this logic then everything could be S/T jutsu.shadow clone jutsu could be S/T jutsu where the user teleports a clone from the realm of clones,rasengan could be a S/T where the user teleports rasengan from the land of bubbles....i mean seriously?xd

 

[Waltz]

There is no Relm of black fire. Amaterasu is a Yin-Release technique.

 

[Piratefish]

Why not post this there, instead of making a new thread about something that's already being discussed?

I kinda did, but no-one noticed/cared enough to respond. And tell me, why does saying "it's a Yin release tech" make so much more sense than "it's an S/T tech"?

 

[Carlhens]

Nice theory i believe so

 

[ForbiddenUzumaki]

Why not post this there, instead of making a new thread about something that's already being discussed?

Probably because it won't get as much attention as it deserves. Now if you could please stop trying to act like a mod and stick to subject.

OT: I find this really interesting, good job!

 

[Piratefish]

i know what you mean but this is getting out of hand...i mean if we follow this logic then everything could be S/T jutsu.shadow clone jutsu could be S/T jutsu where the user teleports a clone from the realm of clones,rasengan could be a S/T where the user teleports rasengan from the land of bubbles....i mean seriously?xd

I gather this is meant humourously, but seriously, MS techniques all seem to defy explanation. Tsukuyomi forces its target to experience 260 000 seconds in a single second. And don't say it's just manipulation of perception of time. NO-ONE THINKS THAT FAST. Time manipulation, babe. Amaterasu spawns random black flames without equal, and Kamui unquestionably DOES warp dimensions. The idea that the MS, in every tech, warps reality seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Drakengard]

I used to think that the MS linked the user to hell, and that Amaterasu was really the flames off hell being teleported from the user's vision.

GG my hopes and dreams T~T

 

[asparticus]

you're thinking way too much about this

 

[3MESSIAH]

I gather this is meant humourously, but seriously, MS techniques all seem to defy explanation. Tsukuyomi forces its target to experience 260 000 seconds in a single second. And don't say it's just manipulation of perception of time. NO-ONE THINKS THAT FAST. Time manipulation, babe. Amaterasu spawns random black flames without equal, and Kamui unquestionably DOES warp dimensions. The idea that the MS, in every tech, warps reality seems pretty reasonable to me.

i could go along with amaterasu and susanoo because there is a chance MS warps flames from hell and that susanoo is some warrior/guardian from hell or sth as well,but i dont think so about tsukuyomi which definitely is a genjutsu by itself,only a genjutsu that is able to manipulate time,therefore having properties of S/T jutsu but nonetheless not being a S/T jutsu by itself

 

[Piratefish]

*Yang. Yin Release is considered "Dark Style" having to do with spiritual energy, and Yang is considered "Light Style", having to do with physical energy. Amaterasu is said to represent the "Material World and Light", while Tsukuyomi represents the "Spiritual World and Darkness"

Thanks for that, very informative. I regret having only passing knowledge of japanese mythology.

i could go along with amaterasu and susanoo because there is a chance MS warps flames from hell and that susanoo is some warrior/guardian from hell or sth as well,but i dont think so about tsukuyomi which definitely is a genjutsu by itself,only a genjutsu that is able to manipulate time,therefore having properties of S/T jutsu but nonetheless not being a S/T jutsu by itself

If you agree that Tsukuyomi is manipulationg time and not merely the targets perception of it, you are agreeing to it being a Space/Time Genjutsu.

 

[Microsword57]

Amaterasu does not alter Time at all therefore it can't qualify as a S/T Technique. My Response to Dr.Proof's thread was that the debate came from Tsukuyomi qualifying as both a Dimension and Fake, Sadly it's a contradiction to qualify anything Fake as Fact.

 

[Piratefish]

Amaterasu does not alter Time at all therefore it can't qualify as a S/T Technique. My Response to Dr.Proof's thread was that the debate came from Tsukuyomi qualifying as both a Dimension and Fake, Sadly it's a contradiction to qualify anything Fake as Fact.

A Space/Time jutsu is one which alters Space AND OR Time. Kamui doesn't alter Time either, does that mean it isn't a S/T tech?

Answer no. In case you were undecided.

I could accept an argument stating that the (REALM OF BLACK FIRE) is an unrealistic idea, (it is), but saying it's not S/T because it doesn't alter Time? Ludicrous.

About Tsukuyomi, my belief is that Itachi is creating an ordinary (If extraordinarily powerful) Sharingan genjutsu, and then using the Mangekyou to stretch time within it. No separate dimensions involved.

 

[TheWillofFire]

Nah S/T jutsu was just a way to balance obito and minato

 

[Strict]

Amaterasu appears wherever the Sharingan is aiming for, this has nothing to do with space/time traveling. The flame, which doesn't exist, appears at a certain spot. Tsukuyomi is also not a space/time technique, it is an illusion. Don't listen to DrProof, he talks nonsense.

 

[Piratefish]

Amaterasu appears wherever the Sharingan is aiming for, this has nothing to do with space/time traveling. The flame, which doesn't exist, appears at a certain spot. Tsukuyomi is also not a space/time technique, it is an illusion. Don't listen to DrProof, he talks nonsense.

If so, it's very convincing nonsense.

Point is, Amaterasu is so very similar in execution to Kamui I find it likely to be some sort of "portal" jutsu as well, and Tsukuyomi unquestionably manipulates time.

 

[Sea Of Thy Soul]

I stopped reading at the part where the user opens a portal to a realm of black fire..

 

[Piratefish]

I stopped reading at the part where the user opens a portal to a realm of black fire..

Amaterasu is god of the Material Realm and Light. Shouldn't she have a realm all to herself? Amaterasu (the fire) is said to rival the sun in its intensity of heat, and Amaterasu (the god) is the Shinto god of the sun.