Holes, holes, holes!!!

[iBon3]

Somebody call Shia LeBeouf, cus this manga is full of holes....Zing!

Seriously, I love this manga. It has always been fun to read, but this last manga was just...heartbreaking. Its like it ripped a hole in the Naruto verse continuum and things that mattered dont and everything is backward and just a huge mess. Let me explain...

1. Noope, Nope, Nope...you didnt

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Ohh you know what, thats great, really thats fantastic. Naruto reminds you, Obito Uchiha, of the first Hokage. You mean that first Hokage that you never met, in fact, he lived his entire life before your parents were even thinking of making you. And dont say, "Ohh well he was pretending to be Madara". Thats bullcrap and a cop-out. He spoke on a personal level here that he just didnt have, Obito's reveal killed this page.

2. Hey there Kyuubi, remember me?

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"Do you have any idea how long I've waited for this?" Says Obito Uchiha!! Um I dont know Obito, like a year...maybe two right? Poor Baby.

Kyuubi to Obito..."You"

Ohh Kyuubi you know Obito? Im so glad Obito's able to get out there and network and just meet new people like you and the first. But wait, werent you sealed in Kushina? For Obito's entire life? You know what its cool, well roll with it.

3. Kisame, the biggest idiot shinobi.

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Nope, Kisame, thats Obito. Not Madara, but its okay, Madaras only one of the most infamous people ever to live, world renowned, you know. His appearance isnt carved on a giant statue anywhere, its totall cool you have no idea what he looks like, and would mistake Obito as him...Dont worry about it.

4. Black Zetsu = Madara....Oookay

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The Rinne Tensei was supposed to be used for my benefit...Says Obito to Madara as we have come to realize... No, no Obito keep telling Madara your plans to revive him, he probably needs a refresher.

I know Im probably gonna get hate for this, so just say what you want and get it out. I had to blow off steam for things that have just really been bothering me. For everyone who is going to say, "its his story hell do waht he wants" or " hes been writing it for 12 years what do you expect". Yeah I get it, I still love the story and am still going to read it, but these just...i dont know, Maybe im just bitter about the Obito reveal. Not cus it was the wrong choice, but because it was the obvious choice.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Last one Im not feeling..the others, meh, hes been writing it for 10+ plus years. What do you expect...

 

[CurseSealofEarth]

Heck, it barely matters. Sounds like he is pathologically insane at this point.

 

[Katkot]

Kisame is not idiot

 

[Unbiased]

kishi doesn't have consistency. In terms of being a good writer he's above average.

 

[Unatural]

Most Are True

 

[Uchiha Legacy]

The only legitimate one is the 2nd, or maybe Madara taught Obito the Genjutsu he used to control the Ninetails and the Ninetails mistaked him as being Madara?:shrug:

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

One thing thats always bothered me is that fact the swirl on Obito's mask is just a coincidence that it looks like his teleporatation jutstu. I feel like Kishi had a better plan for that but scrapped it for whatever reason

 

[gas83091]

i see your point and i hate to have to say this but he has been writing it for yrs now and a few things slipped his mind. there just small holes if you ask me nothing that truly throws off the whole story so just enjoy the manga and try not to get too deep in it.... just a piece of art and not reality

 

[TheRealAkatsukiLeader]

Somebody call Shia LeBeouf, cus this manga is full of holes....Zing!

Seriously, I love this manga. It has always been fun to read, but this last manga was just...heartbreaking. Its like it ripped a hole in the Naruto verse continuum and things that mattered dont and everything is backward and just a huge mess. Let me explain...

1. Noope, Nope, Nope...you didnt

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Ohh you know what, thats great, really thats fantastic. Naruto reminds you, Obito Uchiha, of the first Hokage. You mean that first Hokage that you never met, in fact, he lived his entire life before your parents were even thinking of making you. And dont say, "Ohh well he was pretending to be Madara". Thats bullcrap and a cop-out. He spoke on a personal level here that he just didnt have, Obito's reveal killed this page.

2. Hey there Kyuubi, remember me?

Spoiler

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"Do you have any idea how long I've waited for this?" Says Obito Uchiha!! Um I dont know Obito, like a year...maybe two right? Poor Baby.

Kyuubi to Obito..."You"

Ohh Kyuubi you know Obito? Im so glad Obito's able to get out there and network and just meet new people like you and the first. But wait, werent you sealed in Kushina? For Obito's entire life? You know what its cool, well roll with it.

3. Kisame, the biggest idiot shinobi.

Spoiler

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Nope, Kisame, thats Obito. Not Madara, but its okay, Madaras only one of the most infamous people ever to live, world renowned, you know. His appearance isnt carved on a giant statue anywhere, its totall cool you have no idea what he looks like, and would mistake Obito as him...Dont worry about it.

4. Black Zetsu = Madara....Oookay

Spoiler

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The Rinne Tensei was supposed to be used for my benefit...Says Obito to Madara as we have come to realize... No, no Obito keep telling Madara your plans to revive him, he probably needs a refresher.

I know Im probably gonna get hate for this, so just say what you want and get it out. I had to blow off steam for things that have just really been bothering me. For everyone who is going to say, "its his story hell do waht he wants" or " hes been writing it for 12 years what do you expect". Yeah I get it, I still love the story and am still going to read it, but these just...i dont know, Maybe im just bitter about the Obito reveal. Not cus it was the wrong choice, but because it was the obvious choice.

1. Obito was under the identity of Madara Uchiha, he had to act as if he were Madara himself. if you "love" this manga so much, why be so misinformed? Obito is the master of manipulation, no, he didn't know the 1st Hokage face to face, but Madara told this boy Obito all he knew, from the time he was born, to the time he died. Obito just knew he had to act like Madara; and make it convincing.


2. As I said before, Obito is under the identity of Madara. "I've waited my entire life for this" is a line used by Obito. He most likely meant "revenge" or for the first, and hardest part to overcome "capturing the 9tails for the moons eye plan" OR, he could've been playing as Madara and "waiting his entire life to capture the nine tails again" I don't know, but one of those 3 is it.


3. Kisame is not an idiot. He probably thinks it's Madara because of the age difference, the left side of Obito's face is one side of Hashirama. It looks old, and scarred. The scars look exactly like wrinkles. ****, Obito may have put Kisame under Genjutsu even before he took his mask off, to make him look like Madara in only Kisame's view. As we can see Obito is a advanced Genjutsu user, he could control the Kyuubi at age 14, or 15. He was one of those ages when he attacked the Leaf.

4. Black Zetsu isn't Madara, he's basically a clone of Madara. Obito needed the Rinne-tensei to revive the older Madara back to life, and that's it. Madara put his "will" into this Zetsu, which probably means the black Zetsu will act EXACTLY like Madara. Personality, thinking, etc. He will think he's Madara, but he isn't.


There you go, just dis-proved your entire thread with a couple of sentences.


Finally,

Obito was not the obvious choice. Kishi trolled us for 3 years, because he made us think it was Madara with spacetime ninjutsu mastery. But it wasn't. If Obito was the obvious choice, people wouldn't of made up theories on how he could've been these people

1. Elder Son

2. Izuna Uchiha

3. Shisui

4. Zetsu/Madara

5. Obito Uchiha

6. Kagami Uchiha (If this guy wasn't an Uchiha, he would've never been a theory. >_>)

7. Danzo.

 

[iBon3]

1. Obito was under the identity of Madara Uchiha, he had to act as if he were Madara himself. if you "love" this manga so much, why be so misinformed? Obito is the master of manipulation, no, he didn't know the 1st Hokage face to face, but Madara told this boy Obito all he knew, from the time he was born, to the time he died. Obito just knew he had to act like Madara; and make it convincing.


2. As I said before, Obito is under the identity of Madara. "I've waited my entire life for this" is a line used by Obito. He most likely meant "revenge" or for the first, and hardest part to overcome "capturing the 9tails for the moons eye plan" OR, he could've been playing as Madara and "waiting his entire life to capture the nine tails again" I don't know, but one of those 3 is it.


3. Kisame is not an idiot. He probably thinks it's Madara because of the age difference, the left side of Obito's face is one side of Hashirama. It looks old, and scarred. The scars look exactly like wrinkles. ****, Obito may have put Kisame under Genjutsu even before he took his mask off, to make him look like Madara in only Kisame's view. As we can see Obito is a advanced Genjutsu user, he could control the Kyuubi at age 14, or 15. He was one of those ages when he attacked the Leaf.

4. Black Zetsu isn't Madara, he's basically a clone of Madara. Obito needed the Rinne-tensei to revive the older Madara back to life, and that's it. Madara put his "will" into this Zetsu, which probably means the black Zetsu will act EXACTLY like Madara. Personality, thinking, etc. He will think he's Madara, but he isn't.


There you go, just dis-proved your entire thread with a couple of sentences.


Finally,

Obito was not the obvious choice. Kishi trolled us for 3 years, because he made us think it was Madara with spacetime ninjutsu mastery. But it wasn't. If Obito was the obvious choice, people wouldn't of made up theories on how he could've been these people

1. Elder Son

2. Izuna Uchiha

3. Shisui

4. Zetsu/Madara

5. Obito Uchiha

6. Kagami Uchiha (If this guy wasn't an Uchiha, he would've never been a theory. >_>)

7. Danzo.

Okay, I will give you the second and third one you made good points and its fine you dont see it my way, no harm. But the first 2, no way, the arguments you made are shakey at best.

1. He went to talk to Naruto there because he was curious about the way Naruto got Nagato to betray him. He didnt go there to tout to kakashi, yamato and naruto that he was Madara. He spoke there on a personal level as if he knew the First Hokage and he simply didnt. It's a plot hole, its something that shouldnt have been said by Obito Uchiha.

2. If you are trying to make the argument, that he said that because he was trying to play the role of Madara, come on, look at the context. He was speaking to Kushina who was about to die, there is no reason to play that role, dont try to dance around it. And no, it was a year or 2 after he disappeared, it wasnt a long time, theres no way to dance around that point either. It simply was dialouge to throw the reader off that would later be shown to be false. Thats fine, but thats the way it is.


And Obito was the obvious choice. We were the ones that made it complicated. The focus was on his right eye, the techniques were similar to Kakashi's. His hair and side profiles were exactly the same...It was obvious.

 

[iBon3]

i see your point and i hate to have to say this but he has been writing it for yrs now and a few things slipped his mind. there just small holes if you ask me nothing that truly throws off the whole story so just enjoy the manga and try not to get too deep in it.... just a piece of art and not reality

Youre right, its not that Im so distraught about it im gonna go on a raid about how I hate Naruto and Kishi and im gonna stop reading. Cus im not, i like the story, he is a great writer, its just the last few chapters have just bothered me.. I wanted to get that point out there

 

[Ōkami]

ok i can summon this all up with one statement "Obito knew the real Madara"

 

[iBon3]

ok i can summon this all up with one statement "Obito knew the real Madara"

That doesnt justify some things he said...It really doesnt.

 

[kyuubisennin]

1. like therealakatsukileader said
2. the kyuubi was in kushina her whole life you said then maybe she met with obito and the kyuubi reminds his chakra
3. we know that kisame whas invented by a person who introducted himself as madara uchiha to akatsuki that was after obito speaked to nagato so kisame met with obito and thought it were madara and then he reminds obitos face as madaras face
4. black zetsu is the will of madara !!!! and i think obito wants to use rinne tensei for rin and not for madara

 

[Ōkami]

That doesnt justify some things he said...It really doesnt.

no it really does he told him everything and passed on his feelings as well also with the Kyuubi saying "you" he thought it actually was Madara because Madara use to control him with the sharingan

 

[iBon3]

1. like therealakatsukileader said
2. the kyuubi was in kushina her whole life you said then maybe she met with obito and the kyuubi reminds his chakra
3. we know that kisame whas invented by a person who introducted himself as madara uchiha to akatsuki that was after obito speaked to nagato so kisame met with obito and thought it were madara and then he reminds obitos face as madaras face
4. black zetsu is the will of madara !!!! and i think obito wants to use rinne tensei for rin and not for madara

1 and 2 man...they still bother me. Those explanations are just speculative

3. I would just like to think Madara's face is better known than that, but I have no ground to stand on there.

4. People keep saying the he's Madara's will. I get that, that convo between them still doesnt make sense even if thats the case

Listen the point is, that Kishi, in order to keep us guessing, stretched the truth a bit. Which is fine, I kinda liked Tobi being Obito, it offered more to the story than any other characters could. But, the explanation of how he got to this point is just rushed and lucid at best.

 

[TheRealAkatsukiLeader]

Okay, I will give you the second and third one you made good points and its fine you dont see it my way, no harm. But the first 2, no way, the arguments you made are shakey at best.

1. He went to talk to Naruto there because he was curious about the way Naruto got Nagato to betray him. He didnt go there to tout to kakashi, yamato and naruto that he was Madara. He spoke there on a personal level as if he knew the First Hokage and he simply didnt. It's a plot hole, its something that shouldnt have been said by Obito Uchiha.

2. If you are trying to make the argument, that he said that because he was trying to play the role of Madara, come on, look at the context. He was speaking to Kushina who was about to die, there is no reason to play that role, dont try to dance around it. And no, it was a year or 2 after he died, it wasnt a long time, theres no way to dance around that point either. It simply was dialouge to throw the reader off that would later be shown to be false. Thats fine, but thats the way it is.


And Obito was the obvious choice. We were the ones that made it complicated. The focus was on his right eye, the techniques were similar to Kakashi's. His hair and side profiles were exactly the same...It was obvious.

Okay, I'll give you that one on the obvious, should've thought about it.


1. HOWEVER, Obito was still under the Madara identity, he just spoke of the 1st because he knew so much about him from Madara. This old Madara even had a living Hashirama clone in his hide out. What doesn't say he didn't let it come alive and let it speak, walk and have free will, but was evil? We don't know. And keep in mind, Obito has the left side of his body Hashirama, maybe he has half Hashirama's brain or something, but has his own knowledge, will, and intelligence? Far fetched, I know. But think about it. You put a dogs brain in a human, the human will most likely act just like a dog.

Obito wanted to know how Naruto got Nagato to change his ways, because it probably reminded Obito of his old kid self, and he wanted to know how Naruto felt about "hope" so he could attempt to brain wash Naruto himself to give up, so he could obtain the Kyuubi easier in the war. Obito was still under the identity of Madara.

2. Obito was 13 when he "died" 1 or 2 years later, he would've been 14, or 15. Now, I've seen 6ft tall 14/15 year olds, heck a friend of mine was 15 and 6.1. He knew Kushina wasn't gonna die that quick, she is of uzumaki lineage, and this means hardcore chakra reserves, this kid knew she WAS gonna die, but not for a while unless forced to die. He was under the Madara identity.

Okay, context huh? Alright, let me counter that.

Chapter 606, last page.

Obito wanted to become friendly with Nagato. Why not say "I am Obito Uchiha, you've got your eyes from Madara, and why do I know this? Because I was trained under Madara, our master has died, and I will take his role." Get it? I know Nagato would've believed him because Zetsu was beside Obito.. Zetsu was always stuck up Madara's ass.. xD

Obito has put on this fake identity ever since Madara died. He don't care if someone was stabbed in the throat and bleeding out, he wasn't going to reveal his identity.

Why wouldn't he be truthful to someone that was about to die?


Konan fight, he stabbed her in the back with a pole. She called him "Madara Uchiha of darkness." Obito went with it, he had this fake identity sealed,he knew she was gonna die because he even explained Izanagi, and himself, in a Madara way. He put her under Genjutsu and told her she was gonna die when it ended! He still said he was Madara.


Friendly argument by the way, we all got our own opinions.

 

[Solo]

Kyuubi also said Sasuke chakra is like Madara's as well.


So why wouldn't he think Obito is Madara?

 

[iBon3]

Okay, I'll give you that one on the obvious, should've thought about it.


1. HOWEVER, Obito was still under the Madara identity, he just spoke of the 1st because he knew so much about him from Madara. This old Madara even had a living Hashirama clone in his hide out. What doesn't say he didn't let it come alive and let it speak, walk and have free will, but was evil? We don't know. And keep in mind, Obito has the left side of his body Hashirama, maybe he has half Hashirama's brain or something, but has his own knowledge, will, and intelligence? Far fetched, I know. But think about it. You put a dogs brain in a human, the human will most likely act just like a dog.

Obito wanted to know how Naruto got Nagato to change his ways, because it probably reminded Obito of his old kid self, and he wanted to know how Naruto felt about "hope" so he could attempt to brain wash Naruto himself to give up, so he could obtain the Kyuubi easier in the war. Obito was still under the identity of Madara.

2. Obito was 13 when he "died" 1 or 2 years later, he would've been 14, or 15. Now, I've seen 6ft tall 14/15 year olds, heck a friend of mine was 15 and 6.1. He knew Kushina wasn't gonna die that quick, she is of uzumaki lineage, and this means hardcore chakra reserves, this kid knew she WAS gonna die, but not for a while unless forced to die. He was under the Madara identity.

Okay, context huh? Alright, let me counter that.

Chapter 606, last page.

Obito wanted to become friendly with Nagato. Why not say "I am Obito Uchiha, you've got your eyes from Madara, and why do I know this? Because I was trained under Madara, our master has died, and I will take his role." Get it? I know Nagato would've believed him because Zetsu was beside Obito.. Zetsu was always stuck up Madara's ass.. xD

Obito has put on this fake identity ever since Madara died. He don't care if someone was stabbed in the throat and bleeding out, he wasn't going to reveal his identity.

Why wouldn't he be truthful to someone that was about to die?


Konan fight, he stabbed her in the back with a pole. She called him "Madara Uchiha of darkness." Obito went with it, he had this fake identity sealed,he knew she was gonna die because he even explained Izanagi, and himself, in a Madara way. He put her under Genjutsu and told her she was gonna die when it ended! He still said he was Madara.


Friendly argument by the way, we all got our own opinions.

Again, your explanation for 1 and 2 are just speculative.

I know for a fact that Hashi clone doesnt have a mind of its own

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But with Konan, that is just my point. There is no rhyme or reason to talk the way he did to her and Kushina and Naruto, other than a ploy by the writer to keep us guessin at his identity. Which is fine, but that is simply the way it is. To say, " well he was just that committed that even people that were about had to die had to think he was Madara". If you believe that, okay, but ive accepted it as a writing technique used by Kishi, which again, is no problem.

With Naruto, there was not even a reason to bring up the first Hokage (from a writers perspective) other than to get us thinking that it couldnt be Obito. If Kishi knew it was Obito (and that is saracasm) then what im saying is he purposefully made Obito say things for no reason souly to make us think it wasnt him.