13 y/o Kakashi, 13 y/o Itachi & Kimimaro Kaguya vs. Kakuzu & Hidan

[VisionOfDisorder]

It was also in part 1, which was hit by power inflation massively. Remember Hashirama who's now comparable to RS in that his power was unbelievable, and his power was so ridiculously great that no ninja could match his power, he made Madara his bitch and beat Perfect Susano'o and the 5 kages were nothing before him? Well yeah, in Part 1 he was doing mediocre jutsu that most chunin could counter and the ANBU were crapping their pants at how high level a kage fight is.

The DB stats were also from part 1, it surprises me how people don't realize the DB aren't all accurate and are a secondary source for information that Kishi wrote. If you didn't take them in terms of power levels and peers then some genin part 1 characters have skills higher than what Akatsuki specialize in which is ridiculous. But either way you need more to quantify his strength, everything we've seen from him gets crapped on by Kakuzu and some of the genin could have beaten him.

Inflation btween part 1 and 2 is a good point but you have to notice that people like Sasuke have their skills increase at a gradual rate from each data book, so even looking at the span of 1 character from part 1 to part 2, that inflation doesn't put them in a different league to where they should be. If Kimimaro had apeared alive in part 2 this would be much more cut-and-dry lol.

Because Choji was utterly useless that means 20 is the highest score until people start being useful? I don't think it works like that, besides Choji actually is basically completely worthless.

Oh yeah and thanks lolol

Uh.. not sure where you are getting that. That is not what I said at all lol..

Here I will put it differently, You were saying that Kimimaro makes no difference on a team against Zombie bros, so I compared him to someone who we have SEEN to make no difference against the Zombie bros. (Chouji is the best example) and displayed the difference between the databook scores of both Chouji and Kimimaro.

Anyway, given lack of evidence from part2, (or even in part 1) it is debatable what league Kimimaro falls into. But I think you'll find that most people agree he is in a mid jounin class at least, putting him on par with Kakashi when HE first became a jounin.

 

[ElectricClover]

Immortal duo, but this still a pretty good battle. Kimimaro is impervious to Kakuzu's crap but Hidan is Hidan gets blood he can do internal damage. That's as long as he works with Kakuzu, because Hidan by his own word is the slowest of the Akatsuki and has the worst aim, whereas Kimimaro has one of the best evasion taijutsu in the manga. There's a chance the lightning mask might also be able to defeat Kimi, as long as his tech is earth style, which is probable. As for the kids-- Kakashi wasn't enough to do the job against Kakuzu when he was an adult, so I can't see him being useful at 13. Don't know if Itachi has enough experience or mastery over mangekyo to be much use either. I'd say mid dif but it definitely goes to the duo.

 

[Joki]

^I know you fap to Kimimaro but how is he impervious to any of Kakuzu's attacks?

Inflation btween part 1 and 2 is a good point but you have to notice that people like Sasuke have their skills increase at a gradual rate from each data book, so even looking at the span of 1 character from part 1 to part 2, that inflation doesn't put them in a different league to where they should be. If Kimimaro had apeared alive in part 2 this would be much more cut-and-dry lol.



Uh.. not sure where you are getting that. That is not what I said at all lol..

Here I will put it differently, You were saying that Kimimaro makes no difference on a team against Zombie bros, so I compared him to someone who we have SEEN to make no difference against the Zombie bros. (Chouji is the best example) and displayed the difference between the databook scores of both Chouji and Kimimaro.

Anyway, given lack of evidence from part2, (or even in part 1) it is debatable what league Kimimaro falls into. But I think you'll find that most people agree he is in a mid jounin class at least, putting him on par with Kakashi when HE first became a jounin.

You're saying that "Choji is a 20 and was useless, since Kimimaro has 30 he won't be useless", besides overalls don't really mean anything, even Lee destroys a lot of the genins in overall stats.

And yeah, if Kimimaro was in part 2 it'd be an obvious choice. Regardless Kimimaro was around the genins levels in part 1, on Lee, Sasuke and Naruto's level. It's already proven fact most jonin would destroy those guys and are on a much higher level, Kakashi would have dispatched all of them with pretty much no difficulty, meanwhile part 2 Kakashi and the entire chunin team 10 were basically fodderized by Kakuzu.

 

[soulless uchiha]

thats a good match up, but I believe that the immortal duo wins for different reasons.

-the kakashi of now wasn't able to defeat kakazu, so i doubt he could win.

-kimmimaro is bound to get at least a scratch from hidan, so i don't think he'd make. also kakuzu's iron skin would make it very difficult to attack him.

-not sure if itachi has mangekyo?.

 

[VisionOfDisorder]

^I know you fap to Kimimaro but how is he impervious to any of Kakuzu's attacks?



You're saying that "Choji is a 20 and was useless, since Kimimaro has 30 he won't be useless", besides overalls don't really mean anything, even Lee destroys a lot of the genins in overall stats.

And yeah, if Kimimaro was in part 2 it'd be an obvious choice. Regardless Kimimaro was around the genins levels in part 1, on Lee, Sasuke and Naruto's level. It's already proven fact most jonin would destroy those guys and are on a much higher level, Kakashi would have dispatched all of them with pretty much no difficulty, meanwhile part 2 Kakashi and the entire chunin team 10 were basically fodderized by Kakuzu.

I dissagree that overall stats are meaningless, As i said i only use them for a vague reference (Never to settle a close debate) but it certainly makes sense in cases like you pointed out with rock Lee, (as he WAS one of the top gennin, so of course his total would be higher than most of them).

Anyway, my main dissagreement with you is that Kimimaro is in fact NOT on the level of Gennin, during the Sasuke retrieval arc, Gaara was certainly not a gennin level anymore (He never passed the Chuunin finals so he eventually went from gennin to kazekage with no steps in between lol) But anyone who could be called gennin level would have been DESTROYED by Gaara at the time. (This is obviously not including sasuke and Naruto as they were above gennin level too.)

This is pretty endlessly debatable because after the chuunin exam arc, the lines between ninja ranks were blurred severely, for Otogakure ninja especially as they never displayed rank in the first place.

However, Kimimaro's KKG would be very useful against Hidan. Kimi's taijutsu infused with bone armor and active defense (vs rocklee) would prevent Hidan from drawing blood indefinitely

I find it most likely that either Zombie bro could be caught using Genjutsu, I would also be very interested to see the effect of Amaterasu on Hidan's imortal body. Amaterasu would also make earth grudge fear very dangerous for Kakuzu to use.

Anyway, I'm spit-balling Ideas here but id be interested to hear how you think it would play out

 

[VisionOfDisorder]

thats a good match up, but I believe that the immortal duo wins for different reasons.

-the kakashi of now wasn't able to defeat kakazu, so i doubt he could win.

-kimmimaro is bound to get at least a scratch from hidan, so i don't think he'd make. also kakuzu's iron skin would make it very difficult to attack him.

-not sure if itachi has mangekyo?.

Itachi at 13 does have MS, what do you think would happen assuming.. :

Scenario 1: Itachi has only Tsukuyomi
Scenario 2: Itachi has Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu (more likely as he awakened his eyes as a pair.)

 

[Joki]

I dissagree that overall stats are meaningless, As i said i only use them for a vague reference (Never to settle a close debate) but it certainly makes sense in cases like you pointed out with rock Lee, (as he WAS one of the top gennin, so of course his total would be higher than most of them).

Anyway, my main dissagreement with you is that Kimimaro is in fact NOT on the level of Gennin, during the Sasuke retrieval arc, Gaara was certainly not a gennin level anymore (He never passed the Chuunin finals so he eventually went from gennin to kazekage with no steps in between lol) But anyone who could be called gennin level would have been DESTROYED by Gaara at the time. (This is obviously not including sasuke and Naruto as they were above gennin level too.)

This is pretty endlessly debatable because after the chuunin exam arc, the lines between ninja ranks were blurred severely, for Otogakure ninja especially as they never displayed rank in the first place.

However, Kimimaro's KKG would be very useful against Hidan. Kimi's taijutsu infused with bone armor and active defense (vs rocklee) would prevent Hidan from drawing blood indefinitely

I find it most likely that either Zombie bro could be caught using Genjutsu, I would also be very interested to see the effect of Amaterasu on Hidan's imortal body. Amaterasu would also make earth grudge fear very dangerous for Kakuzu to use.

Anyway, I'm spit-balling Ideas here but id be interested to hear how you think it would play out

I didn't say he was "Genin level" I said he was on the level of those genin. So Gaara, Lee, all those guys are classified as genin whether they're whatever you think "genin level" means or not. All of those guys would be crapped on by any basic jonins, 2 fodder tokubetsus stalemated CS2 sound 4.

And yeah well for Lee I meant, he has like .5 in ninjutsu and 1 in genjutsu or something like that, and he's still far superior to everyone else in terms of totals. So overall stats aren't exactly a good form of comparison.

 

[VisionOfDisorder]

I didn't say he was "Genin level" I said he was on the level of those genin. So Gaara, Lee, all those guys are classified as genin whether they're whatever you think "genin level" means or not. All of those guys would be crapped on by any basic jonins, 2 fodder tokubetsus stalemated CS2 sound 4.

I know what level they are considered by the system lol, but by that same logic, Sasuke currently is STILL at gennin rank lol. Also Kimimaro > Oto 4, I'm confident that he would have comfortably dominated either one of thoes jounin in a 1v1, possibly taking them both with CS2 and high difficulty.

So you are right that most jounin shit on the konoha kids OR Oto kids, however Kimimaro is already 15 in part 1, he is closer to the age of Naruto and Sauske in part 2. And we have seen the difference that a few years of training with a SANNIN can make, as he has been with orochimaru since he was a child. (We can assume that Orochimaru gave him similar training to Sasuke, as he considered them both to be possible new hosts for him.)

And yeah well for Lee I meant, he has like .5 in ninjutsu and 1 in genjutsu or something like that, and he's still far superior to everyone else in terms of totals. So overall stats aren't exactly a good form of comparison.

Well Joki, that's Lee's whole mantra. Lee has ONLY taijutsu skills and literally no nin or genjutsu, but he MAKES UP FOR IT with speed, strength, and taijutsu. And yet he still proves himself superior to other gennin who CAN use ninjutsu. It's compensation, it's how rock lee works lol.

 

[Joki]

I know what level they are considered by the system lol, but by that same logic, Sasuke currently is STILL at gennin rank lol. Also Kimimaro > Oto 4, I'm confident that he would have comfortably dominated either one of thoes jounin in a 1v1, possibly taking them both with CS2 and high difficulty.

So you are right that most jounin shit on the konoha kids OR Oto kids, however Kimimaro is already 15 in part 1, he is closer to the age of Naruto and Sauske in part 2. And we have seen the difference that a few years of training with a SANNIN can make, as he has been with orochimaru since he was a child. (We can assume that Orochimaru gave him similar training to Sasuke, as he considered them both to be possible new hosts for him.)



Well Joki, that's Lee's whole mantra. Lee has ONLY taijutsu skills and literally no nin or genjutsu, but he MAKES UP FOR IT with speed, strength, and taijutsu. And yet he still proves himself superior to other gennin who CAN use ninjutsu. It's compensation, it's how rock lee works lol.

No, he's not. We already have an established level.

Gaara and Lee and Kimi and co were on the konoha genins level, that's what their rank is, period. No age or rank of jonin/chunin/genin will change that, if a Jonin is weak he would be on the level of those konoha genin.

Most jonins would have beaten the crap out of them, we're not talking about being a genin. Part 2 Sasuke is far above those guys level in no way would he still be "genin rank", you don't understand my point if you think that's what retarded logic I'm making. Ages don't matter either, Kimimaro was on Gaara, Lee, Naruto Sasuke's level who Jonin would beat up, it doesn't matter if he's 30 or 8 if he's as strong as those guys that's the level he's at, age doesn't make a difference

As for Lee, yeah , that's the point. He's pure taijutsu, comparing his overall to someone else is ridiculous when he has 1s or less in particular stats and makes up for in everywhere else, so you prett much proved my point there.

 

[Icelerate]

No, he's not. We already have an established level.

Gaara and Lee and Kimi and co were on the konoha genins level, that's what their rank is, period. No age or rank of jonin/chunin/genin will change that, if a Jonin is weak he would be on the level of those konoha genin.

Most jonins would have beaten the crap out of them, we're not talking about being a genin. Part 2 Sasuke is far above those guys level in no way would he still be "genin rank", you don't understand my point if you think that's what retarded logic I'm making. Ages don't matter either, Kimimaro was on Gaara, Lee, Naruto Sasuke's level who Jonin would beat up, it doesn't matter if he's 30 or 8 if he's as strong as those guys that's the level he's at, age doesn't make a difference

As for Lee, yeah , that's the point. He's pure taijutsu, comparing his overall to someone else is ridiculous when he has 1s or less in particular stats and makes up for in everywhere else, so you prett much proved my point there.

@Joki: In other words, Kimimaro, Gaara, Rock Lee, Naruto and Sasuke were on the same level as part 1 Ino, part 1 Sakura and Konohmaru's level? You say any jounin will crap on any of the part 1 versions of those five top tier genins that we are talking about but in my Temari gauntlet thread, you said genin Sasuke would stomp so clearly either you change your mind very fast or you have very poor insight in whatever you blabber about.

@VisionofDisorder: I think Itachi can beat Hidan with ease so if Kakashi and Kimimaro can pull up their slack, they could put up a good fight against Kakuzu especially if Itachi uses amaterasu. Still I'd say Kakuzu and Hidan win with high difficulty but they might take out a couple of hearts before dying.

 

[VisionOfDisorder]

@Joki: In other words, Kimimaro, Gaara, Rock Lee, Naruto and Sasuke were on the same level as part 1 Ino, part 1 Sakura and Konohmaru's level? You say any jounin will crap on any of the part 1 versions of those five top tier genins that we are talking about but in my Temari gauntlet thread, you said genin Sasuke would stomp so clearly either you change your mind very fast or you have very poor insight in whatever you blabber about.

@VisionofDisorder: I think Itachi can beat Hidan with ease so if Kakashi and Kimimaro can pull up their slack, they could put up a good fight against Kakuzu especially if Itachi uses amaterasu. Still I'd say Kakuzu and Hidan win with high difficulty but they might take out a couple of hearts before dying.

I would agree that Itachi would be a sure-fire win against Hidan, the problem is i don't see Kakashi and Kimimaro lasting long against Kakuzu without him so he would need to kill him quickly and proceed to fight Kakuzu 3v1

 

[Joki]

@Joki: In other words, Kimimaro, Gaara, Rock Lee, Naruto and Sasuke were on the same level as part 1 Ino, part 1 Sakura and Konohmaru's level? You say any jounin will crap on any of the part 1 versions of those five top tier genins that we are talking about but in my Temari gauntlet thread, you said genin Sasuke would stomp so clearly either you change your mind very fast or you have very poor insight in whatever you blabber about.

@VisionofDisorder: I think Itachi can beat Hidan with ease so if Kakashi and Kimimaro can pull up their slack, they could put up a good fight against Kakuzu especially if Itachi uses amaterasu. Still I'd say Kakuzu and Hidan win with high difficulty but they might take out a couple of hearts before dying.

What are you talking about? All of the people I talked about would stomp Part 1 Ino and Sakura, I didn't put them in the list of Kimimaro's peers in power level for a reason.