Prime Hiruzen

[Yusuke Urameshi]

Sarutobi being able to handle the 1st, 2nd and Orochimaru while being confined in a space by the sound 4 is a testament to how powerful he was. Hiruzen also had keen senses, being able to track down the former Hokage under Hashirama Senju's Bringer-of-Darkness Technique. Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was "miserable" compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure. He still had the skill and agility to place explosive tags on both the first and second hokage's legs at the same time. Knowing all the techniques of Konoha hes probably developed defences against them. Even in his old age, his chakra was noted for being very strong, causing a dense effect on the atmosphere when released furthermore, he was known for having immense reserves of chakra in his youth. People might say a person like Itachi would get him in a genjutsu. The 3rd being a student of the 1st and 2nd probably taught him how to counter the many Sharingan techniques. Hiruzen was also called The Professor (プロフェッサー, Purofessā), due to his mastery of all forms of shinobi combat, and his vast knowledge of techniques, purportedly knowing all the techniques within Konoha. He was admired as The God Of Shinobi and Only him and the Sage Of Six Paths share the nick name "God Of Shinobi"

If he knew all techniques, how come no Rasengan, Chidori, or FTG. Or are those special jutsu that are considered Leaf jutsu?

 

[KingHashirama]

I hope you do know...... Madara saw all the four hokages. . Especially Hiruzen, Hashirama , and Tobirama.

 

[XMANG55]

If he knew all techniques, how come no Rasengan, Chidori, or FTG. Or are those special jutsu that are considered Leaf jutsu?

I don't think he could show 1,000 moves in one fight plus doesn't FTG need that special kunai or the seal that's on it??

 

[TurrinB]

Hiruzen Prime is certainly a character, I just don't think people believe his hype, because it hasn't been stated again in Part II and there seems like there is a high chance it was retecon'd.

 

[KingHashirama]

Hiruzen Prime is certainly a character, I just don't think people believe his hype, because it hasn't been stated again in Part II and there seems like there is a high chance it was retecon'd.

Also because Madara Uchiha said : "Only Hashirama can stop me"

 

[XMANG55]

I hope you do know...... Madara saw all the four hokages. . Especially Hiruzen, Hashirama , and Tobirama.

How when he was confined to a cave? (and this is not a Hiruzen vs Hashirama or Madara thread)

 

[KingHashirama]

How when he was confined to a cave? (and this is not a Hiruzen vs Hashirama or Madara thread)

Does that mean he can't see the outside? helloo...... Zetsu.... And he able to give the Rinnegan to Nagato (which was around or maybe after Prime Hiruzen). But yea. And i never tried to make this into a Vs thread.

Correction. Hashi + Mito > Edo Madara. Without Mito, Hashi wouldn't be able to seal him.

Why do you say he can't seal him By himself?. He was a seal expert... Mito sealed the 9-tails within herself to better aid him aka so he can fight Madara. Even Minato was good at Sealings So Hashirama would be better. And plus theres alot we haven't seen of him.

 

[XMANG55]

Hiruzen Prime is certainly a character, I just don't think people believe his hype, because it hasn't been stated again in Part II and there seems like there is a high chance it was retecon'd.

To each man his own i guess but i think that's lame a lot of stuff hasn't been stated again if they have no importance to current events.

 

[XMANG55]

Does that mean he can't see the outside? helloo...... Zetsu.... And he able to give the Rinnegan to Nagato (which was around or maybe after Prime Hiruzen). But yea. And i never tried to make this into a Vs thread.

Soo you think he told Zetsu "look for those who can beat me or those who can help my plan" and he was not at every fight Hiruzen ever had and if he was so close to be a first hand witness of his power i think Hiruzen would notice such a strong chakra...

(i didn't direct toward u some people make these therads and want a flame war and start a verse thread so i'm keeping it on topic.)

 

[KingHashirama]

Soo you think he told Zetsu "look for those who can beat me or those who can help my plan" and he was not at every fight Hiruzen ever had and if he was so close to be a first hand witness of his power i think Hiruzen would notice such a strong chakra...

(i didn't direct toward u some people make these therads and want a flame war and start a verse thread so i'm keeping it on topic.)

And when has Hiruzen had big fights that have gone down in history? lol. The point is he has seen the first 4 hokages. And what they are capable of. The when and the how are all up to assumptions. Hiruzen isn't a sensor so I doubt it. And also , Zetsu can record fights, have you forgot that?

 

[XMANG55]

And when has Hiruzen had big fights that have gone down in history? lol. The point is he has seen the first 4 hokages. And what they are capable of. The when and the how are all up to assumptions. Hiruzen isn't a sensor so I doubt it. And also , Zetsu can record fights, have you forgot that?

True but at this time he was not order to record fights. (and isn't that only with his Black side) and his big fight are not relevant to anything going on in the manga why mention them? ( and his fight with oro will be talked about in this universe)
That he has seen Young Hiruzen and the 4th is not a fact just an assumption on your part.

 

[KingHashirama]

True but at this time he was not order to record fights. (and isn't that only with his Black side) and his big fight are not relevant to anything going on in the manga why mention them? ( and his fight with oro will be talked about in this universe)
That he has seen Young Hiruzen and the 4th is not a fact just an assumption on your part.

Cause if they were BIG they would've been mentioned =D.

Young Hiruzen.... i'm pretty sure he had already seen Young hiruzen when Madara himself was in the village. o-o

Not really sure. But Madara did create Zetsu black or white. And we do not if he was ordered or not.. But i'm pretty sure Madara Uchiha would know what the hell is going on in the world.. to even create a plan like The Moons Eye plan.

And It is not a assumption to say that he saw Prime Hiruzen and the 4th.. But just a fact. He went to the trouble to find someone like Nagato.... I'm pretty sure he would know about the Kages of that time. =D

 

[XMANG55]

Cause if they were BIG they would've been mentioned =D.

Young Hiruzen.... i'm pretty sure he had already seen Young hiruzen when Madara himself was in the village. o-o

Not really sure. But Madara did create Zetsu black or white. And we do not if he was ordered or not.. But i'm pretty sure Madara Uchiha would know what the hell is going on in the world.. to even create a plan like The Moons Eye plan.

And It is not a assumption to say that he saw Prime Hiruzen and the 4th.. But just a fact. He went to the trouble to find someone like Nagato.... I'm pretty sure he would know about the Kages of that time. =D

He found nagato when he was very young and gave him his eyes I doubt the fourth was even born yet at this time and when he came to prominence Madara was probably already dead. And even if he wasn't dead and was interested ( not likely) in a very young minato he could no way tell how strong he could be. and lets not forget he was sounding insane when we saw him in his old state so we are not dealing with a stable mind here.

 

[XMANG55]

and when i say young Hiruzen i mean (20-40) i no longer say prime cause it makes people angry here. and have we seen all of Madara and Hashi fights? i'm sure they were big to... we only hear of the last one,WHY because it is relevant because it's important to the story. Have we seen 6pop fights or Hanzo fights or all of minato fights or even heard of them? no because they are all not relevant to the story.

 

[startup97]

It's not that he dosen't know how but it's because at the time he couldn't. He was old and had very little chakra. One of the Anbu members mentioned that he primary fighting style was to fight with Shadow Clone just like Naruto but he had to reserve his chakra so he only brought 2. Using Rasengan or Chidori would have drained his chakra too much. It wouldn't be a smart thing to do. The only way was to seal both the Hokages. He was able to counter Tobirama and Hashirama in close combat, despite them being in their prime in the Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation. Even when robbed of his sight from the genjutsu Bringer-of-Darkness Technique, he could still defend himself from Hashirama's and Tobirama's assaults, blocking all their attacks to prepare for his Dead Demon Consuming Seal. After summoning Enma, he could break Hashirama's Wood Release branches with ease.

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Strength, Speed and Stamina have all been hindered because of his old age. Sarutobi was said to have monsteres strength compared to the other Hokages. His strength would have most likely been and 4 because of being able to lift the heavy Enma pole at old age with some difficulty, Let's say in prime he could have lifted Enma with ease. Almost all the jounin's speed have a speed average of 4. His speed is very fast even in his old age. His prime would have been much faster but not as fast the 4th Hokage or Guy. I'd give him a 4.5 for being able to match speed evenly with Orochimaru at old age which means his peed back then mut have been a lot better.
His stamina was greatly decreased becuase of old age. But his chakra made a dense affect on the field. It was said his primary style to fight with was the shadow clone which he couldn't do too much or any other Konoha technique because of low chakra. As we all know Shadow Clone Jutsu requires a lot of chakra. To have his primary style be Shadow Clone must mean his Chakra back in old age must have been much higher. It would have been like Naruto without the Nine Tails. It would have been 4.
All the rest of the scores have a perfect 5 in Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Taijutsu which is impressive considering his old age. In total his data book score would have been 37.5 surpassing both Itachi and Jiraiya who have 35.5 as the highest in the data book. Just IMO

 

[Stark]

Hiruzen > Hashirama YOUMADFANBOYS?

 

[Stark]

Also because Madara Uchiha said : "Only Hashirama can stop me"

Has he ever encountered Hiruzen in combat? No so stfu fanboy.

 

[shri3kbat]

Hiruzen part 1 databook: Everything 5 except stamina/strength/speed (Clearly lost some of these because of age)
He lost to Orochimaru due to his age, Orochimaru even admitted so. And Orochimaru back then wasn't exactly like when Sasuke defeated him +
the fact he had both edo hashirama and tobirama. Although not close to their primes, they did contribute to making things very difficult.

We know as little about Hashi as prime Hiruzen but all I can say is, of course an old dude like Hiruzen was much stronger when he was younger, mostly because of the needed
stamina required to effectively use his specialty which is ninjutsu. Add this fact together with him fighting on par with Orochimaru with 2 strong edo at the age of 69.

I'm saying very, very few characters, alive or dead, could match Hiruzen in battle and none could best his knowledge in ninjutsu except So6p afawk.
Seems people forget how important knowledge is for shinobi.

If a battle between Hashirama and younger Hiruzen were to ever take place in Naruto, I would probably place my bets on Hashi due to what we've learned in part 2.
But there's more to being a shinobi than raw power which Hashi had plenty and overall, Hiruzen is unmatched.

 

[Makoto]

I agree with the point that we don't have much information to go on about both Hashirama and young Hiruzen. However, it's interesting to note that people claim Hashirama's hype is valid because of how powerful Madara is, but not Hiruzen's hype as god of shinobi when it's stated in the databook that was his title when he was alive and was the strongest of the 5 Kage at the time of his death. He was presumably called god of shinobi because of how powerful he was. How powerful was he? We don't know, but we know he was so powerful that he was no easy opponent to defeat considering his mastery over all of Konoha's jutsu.

 

[Simplified]

I've seen about 20 of these in 4 months, you all say the same exact thing.