MilwaukeegHost
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
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THEORY: The 3 Legendary Sannin learned Senjutsu.... OROCHIMARU & TSUNADE INCLUDED
My reasoning for writing this thread is... I believe Tsunade will SOON reveal her version of Senjutsu and save the Kages. So to help this theory, I wanted to start by showing evidence to back my theory, illustrating that Orochimaru is also an Imperfect Sage, same a Jiraiya and (soon to be revealed) Tsunade.
Note: I will not discuss Tsunade having Senjutsu until a few more mangas have been released.
I will try to keep this as short as possible.
From the beginning, I have always speculated that the term "SANNIN" used by Kishi to describe these three legendary shinobi was also rooted in the fact that they all learned some form of Senjutsu (Sage Mode).
Since knowledge has already been presented (in the manga) in regards Jiraiya being an Imperfect Sage, my focus will be to explain my theory on Orochimaru also being an Imperfect Sage... Senju Tsunade will be left to a later thread. But before I speak on Orochimaru, I need to briefly make my argument for Jiraiya.
Special Note: I believe the legendary sannin were all IMPERFECT sages, not perfect (like Naruto/Kabuto). We learn the term "imperfect sage" from Jiraiya; not being able to completely master nature chakra caused him to have partial physical transformation imperfections.
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FACT: Jiraiya = Imperfect Sage
THEORY: Orochimaru = Imperfect Sage
BONUS THEORY: Tsunade = Imperfect Sage
My reasoning for writing this thread is... I believe Tsunade will SOON reveal her version of Senjutsu and save the Kages. So to help this theory, I wanted to start by showing evidence to back my theory, illustrating that Orochimaru is also an Imperfect Sage, same a Jiraiya and (soon to be revealed) Tsunade.
Note: I will not discuss Tsunade having Senjutsu until a few more mangas have been released.
I will try to keep this as short as possible.
From the beginning, I have always speculated that the term "SANNIN" used by Kishi to describe these three legendary shinobi was also rooted in the fact that they all learned some form of Senjutsu (Sage Mode).
Since knowledge has already been presented (in the manga) in regards Jiraiya being an Imperfect Sage, my focus will be to explain my theory on Orochimaru also being an Imperfect Sage... Senju Tsunade will be left to a later thread. But before I speak on Orochimaru, I need to briefly make my argument for Jiraiya.
Special Note: I believe the legendary sannin were all IMPERFECT sages, not perfect (like Naruto/Kabuto). We learn the term "imperfect sage" from Jiraiya; not being able to completely master nature chakra caused him to have partial physical transformation imperfections.
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FACT: Jiraiya = Imperfect Sage
Jiraiya IS an imperfect sage (according to the manga), and I will not waste too much time proving this fact. But I will use Jiraiya’s “imperfect” sage characteristics to elaborate on Orochimaru later.
Jiraiya discovered the residence of the toads, a species he proved to have a natural affinity for. In the anime this is shown to have occurred when he was still the Third's student; after seeing the Third perform the Summoning Technique, Jiraiya tried to use it himself. Since he did not have a contract, Jiraiya was reversed summoned to Mount Myōboku, where the Great Toad Sage made a prophecy concerning Jiraiya: that he would someday choose whether one of his students saved or destroyed the world. During his time with the toads, he trained in senjutsu.
Imperfect Sage Mode: Jiraiya didn't like Sage Mode because it gave him a more toad-like appearance, with longer marks along the sides of his face, a goatee, a larger nose with warts, and webbed hands and feet, all of which made him unappealing to girls. This is due to Jiraiya not having complete mastery over the technique. Jiraiya not being able to completely master nature chakra caused him to be an IMPERFECT SAGE, with visual "imperfections" on his skin from partially transforming into a toad. Jiraiya's summon is a Sage Toad, with the marks of a true sage as the pigmentation around his eyes and a straight bar on its eye pupils.
Jiraiya discovered the residence of the toads, a species he proved to have a natural affinity for. In the anime this is shown to have occurred when he was still the Third's student; after seeing the Third perform the Summoning Technique, Jiraiya tried to use it himself. Since he did not have a contract, Jiraiya was reversed summoned to Mount Myōboku, where the Great Toad Sage made a prophecy concerning Jiraiya: that he would someday choose whether one of his students saved or destroyed the world. During his time with the toads, he trained in senjutsu.
Imperfect Sage Mode: Jiraiya didn't like Sage Mode because it gave him a more toad-like appearance, with longer marks along the sides of his face, a goatee, a larger nose with warts, and webbed hands and feet, all of which made him unappealing to girls. This is due to Jiraiya not having complete mastery over the technique. Jiraiya not being able to completely master nature chakra caused him to be an IMPERFECT SAGE, with visual "imperfections" on his skin from partially transforming into a toad. Jiraiya's summon is a Sage Toad, with the marks of a true sage as the pigmentation around his eyes and a straight bar on its eye pupils.
THEORY: Orochimaru = Imperfect Sage
Only recently has manga proof been given to show that Orochimaru indeed learned and possessed Senjutsu Chakra. I will use this knowledge to theorize about him being an imperfect sage.
1a. Orochimaru has Senjutsu Chakra
1b. Orochimaru found and trained at the Dragon Sage location, Ryuchidou
1c. Orochimaru’s true form is a dragon/snake (a possible sign of not being able to control Nature Chakra)
1d. Orochimaru's Summon, Manda, is a Dragon Sage
1a. Orochimaru has Senjutsu Chakra
"MY SENJUTSU CHAKRA was poured into this Curse Seal"
Pretty self explanatory here. Although the world has been saying there is no proof that he had any knowledge of Senjutsu, this manga (above) confirms that he not only knew about Senjutsu chakra but he also had converted some of his own chakra into Senjutsu Chakra! We learned previously that Senjutsu Chakra is created by mixing Yin/Yang/Nature chakra, and you need to be trained by a SAGE (at one of the three sage locations) to learn this technique. Orochimaru obviously was able to create Senjutsu chakra, which is only possible by someone who has learned SENJUTSU (a sage), regardless of the fact that his body could not fully handle the natural chakra. Hence, Orochimaru has been on the hunt for a perfect body… to complete Dragon Sage Mode (I presume).
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Pretty self explanatory here. Although the world has been saying there is no proof that he had any knowledge of Senjutsu, this manga (above) confirms that he not only knew about Senjutsu chakra but he also had converted some of his own chakra into Senjutsu Chakra! We learned previously that Senjutsu Chakra is created by mixing Yin/Yang/Nature chakra, and you need to be trained by a SAGE (at one of the three sage locations) to learn this technique. Orochimaru obviously was able to create Senjutsu chakra, which is only possible by someone who has learned SENJUTSU (a sage), regardless of the fact that his body could not fully handle the natural chakra. Hence, Orochimaru has been on the hunt for a perfect body… to complete Dragon Sage Mode (I presume).
1b. Orochimaru found and trained at the Dragon Sage location, Ryuchidou
"Orochimaru Sama tried to gain that ability immediately..."
"...Even he couldn't become a TRUE sage in the end..."
On the manga pages above, Kabuto notes that 1) Orochimaru has found the location source of Dragon Senjutsu… Ryuchidou; 2) Orochimaru "tried" to gain the true ability but had not found the right body to bear that ability and become a TRUE sage (perfect sage mode). Since Orochimaru's body was not able to completely control sage mode, I believe the nature chakra caused a partial transformation--his true form was altered to look like the animal he learned sage mode from, the Great White Snake (Same as Jiraiya partially changing into a toad).
Theory: Everyone thinks that Orochimaru wants sasuke's body for his EYES (sharingan) only, but I believe he also wanted his body in general b/c with an Uchiha body he may have been able to become a PERFECT DRAGON SAGE.
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"...Even he couldn't become a TRUE sage in the end..."
You must be registered for see links
On the manga pages above, Kabuto notes that 1) Orochimaru has found the location source of Dragon Senjutsu… Ryuchidou; 2) Orochimaru "tried" to gain the true ability but had not found the right body to bear that ability and become a TRUE sage (perfect sage mode). Since Orochimaru's body was not able to completely control sage mode, I believe the nature chakra caused a partial transformation--his true form was altered to look like the animal he learned sage mode from, the Great White Snake (Same as Jiraiya partially changing into a toad).
Theory: Everyone thinks that Orochimaru wants sasuke's body for his EYES (sharingan) only, but I believe he also wanted his body in general b/c with an Uchiha body he may have been able to become a PERFECT DRAGON SAGE.
1c. Orochimaru’s true form is a dragon/snake (a possible sign of not being able to control Nature Chakra)
Orochimaru's True Form... is a Giant White Snake
The manga page above points to the fact that Orochimaru’s true form could have been obtained while trying to control Nature Chakra from the White Snake Sage at Ryuchidou—he obviously has the imperfections physically of the Animal he learned his senjutsu from. His snake-related techniques have been referred to as Power of the White Snake. The White Snake Sage is the teacher of Senjutsu at the Second Sacred Sage Location, the Ryūchi Cave. When conducting research about Jūgo's clan, Orochimaru eventually tracked down the source of their power: the Ryūchi Cave. It is assumed that here he was trained by the White Snake Sage in senjutsu and attempted to learn how to use Sage Mode. However he was unable to use this power to its full potential due to the frailty of his host's body, making it an inviable option for sage mode altogether. However he does have enough knowledge to both release another person's Sage Mode and absorb the senjutsu chakra inside them as seen with Kabuto.
To compensate for this flaw, Orochimaru developed other novel uses for his senjutsu chakra: the cursed seals. Combining this chakra with the enzyme produced by Jūgo, he was able to create these unique seals, which triggered a change near-identical to that of the Sage Transformation, but with different benefits and drawbacks. The senjutsu chakra locked in these seals is naturally quite powerful as Kabuto was amazed at a portion of Orochimaru's chakra he absorbed from Anko even after he assimilated the collective DNA of team Taka, the Sound Five and of Orochimaru himself. These seals also carried the additional benefit of acting as anchors to Orochimaru's consciousness, allowing him to observe events through anyone branded by the seal and even revive him any number of times under the right circumstances.
You must be registered for see links
The manga page above points to the fact that Orochimaru’s true form could have been obtained while trying to control Nature Chakra from the White Snake Sage at Ryuchidou—he obviously has the imperfections physically of the Animal he learned his senjutsu from. His snake-related techniques have been referred to as Power of the White Snake. The White Snake Sage is the teacher of Senjutsu at the Second Sacred Sage Location, the Ryūchi Cave. When conducting research about Jūgo's clan, Orochimaru eventually tracked down the source of their power: the Ryūchi Cave. It is assumed that here he was trained by the White Snake Sage in senjutsu and attempted to learn how to use Sage Mode. However he was unable to use this power to its full potential due to the frailty of his host's body, making it an inviable option for sage mode altogether. However he does have enough knowledge to both release another person's Sage Mode and absorb the senjutsu chakra inside them as seen with Kabuto.
To compensate for this flaw, Orochimaru developed other novel uses for his senjutsu chakra: the cursed seals. Combining this chakra with the enzyme produced by Jūgo, he was able to create these unique seals, which triggered a change near-identical to that of the Sage Transformation, but with different benefits and drawbacks. The senjutsu chakra locked in these seals is naturally quite powerful as Kabuto was amazed at a portion of Orochimaru's chakra he absorbed from Anko even after he assimilated the collective DNA of team Taka, the Sound Five and of Orochimaru himself. These seals also carried the additional benefit of acting as anchors to Orochimaru's consciousness, allowing him to observe events through anyone branded by the seal and even revive him any number of times under the right circumstances.
1d. Orochimaru's Summon, Manda, is a Dragon Sage
Manda’s Sage Mode
Kabuto’s Sage Mode
The first link above shows Manda, Orochimaru's Animal Summon. From Kabuto, we learn more in depth information regarding Dragon Sage Mode, the second Sage Mode to be officially released in the manga.
COMPARE THE PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS BETWEEN KABUTO AND MANDA IN SAGE MODE.
Kabuto notes he gained four horns growing out from the back of his head as well as darkened sclera, which are the marks of a true dragon sage. As you can see above, Manda also has the marks of a true Dragon Sage (same way Gamabunta has Sage characteristics).
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Kabuto’s Sage Mode
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The first link above shows Manda, Orochimaru's Animal Summon. From Kabuto, we learn more in depth information regarding Dragon Sage Mode, the second Sage Mode to be officially released in the manga.
COMPARE THE PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS BETWEEN KABUTO AND MANDA IN SAGE MODE.
Kabuto notes he gained four horns growing out from the back of his head as well as darkened sclera, which are the marks of a true dragon sage. As you can see above, Manda also has the marks of a true Dragon Sage (same way Gamabunta has Sage characteristics).
BONUS THEORY: Tsunade = Imperfect Sage
I will not waste reader’s time here. There has not been enough evidence to properly theorize Tsunade having learned Senjutsu (yet). I only wanted to clarify in this thread that…
Orochimaru has senjutsu chakra; 2) He found/trained at the Dragon Cave; 3) His true form is a Giant White Snake; 4) His summon is a Dragon Sage
…thus showing a strong possibility that he is considered an imperfect sage. But I will list a few points of interest in regards to Tsunade possibly being a sage, with a thread coming later in the future:
1. SENJU: Senjutsu is the name used in Sage Mode. Tsunade is from the SENJU Clan. See the similarities?
2. CHAKRA CONTROL: Sage Mode is primarily concerned with having extreme chakra control. As the world’s greatest medical nin, Tsunade is WORLD RENOUN for chakra control.
3. YIN SEAL: She shares physical characteristics with her summon animal (YIN SEAL). This is normally true for Sages, b/c so far in the manga a Sage’s summon is a sage as well. The basis concerning Senjutsu Chakra is the fact that you draw in Nature chakra and mix it with your own. My assumption is that Senjutsu plays a big part in this Yin Seal.
4. SHIKKOTSU FOREST: According to Kabuto, there is a third location to learn Senjutsu, called the Shikkotsu Forest. This literally meaning "Damp Bone Forest", and Slugs (Tsunade’s Summon) are known to live in damp areas.
Orochimaru has senjutsu chakra; 2) He found/trained at the Dragon Cave; 3) His true form is a Giant White Snake; 4) His summon is a Dragon Sage
…thus showing a strong possibility that he is considered an imperfect sage. But I will list a few points of interest in regards to Tsunade possibly being a sage, with a thread coming later in the future:
1. SENJU: Senjutsu is the name used in Sage Mode. Tsunade is from the SENJU Clan. See the similarities?
2. CHAKRA CONTROL: Sage Mode is primarily concerned with having extreme chakra control. As the world’s greatest medical nin, Tsunade is WORLD RENOUN for chakra control.
3. YIN SEAL: She shares physical characteristics with her summon animal (YIN SEAL). This is normally true for Sages, b/c so far in the manga a Sage’s summon is a sage as well. The basis concerning Senjutsu Chakra is the fact that you draw in Nature chakra and mix it with your own. My assumption is that Senjutsu plays a big part in this Yin Seal.
4. SHIKKOTSU FOREST: According to Kabuto, there is a third location to learn Senjutsu, called the Shikkotsu Forest. This literally meaning "Damp Bone Forest", and Slugs (Tsunade’s Summon) are known to live in damp areas.
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