[Discussion] What was the original reason for war?

[Shinobi Train]

Money/Greed/Power.

These things are held above that of a Life, soldiers are just pawns, another expendable human life.

This seems to be the general consensus. So, if the leaders that decided to go to war were the ones that actually had to fight it...would that end war? Old men tell young men to go fight and die...I think it would be better if the old men did the dieing instead. xd That actually brings up another question. Why do people allow their government to go to war? Wouldn't the people have their leaders executed for even thinking such a thing?

 

[Exaar]

This seems to be the general consensus. So, if the leaders that decided to go to war were the ones that actually had to fight it...would that end war? Old men tell young men to go fight and die...I think it would be better if the old men did the dieing instead. xd That actually brings up another question. Why do people allow their government to go to war? Wouldn't the people have their leaders executed for even thinking such a thing?

The Government use Peace as a way to condone war, They also use the Media as propaganda like kony 2012.
People believe alot of crap that is put on the Tv/Internet or Spewed out by the government.

 

[~Sky~]

Religion is not a cause. Nor greed, peace, blame, resources, land, or wealth. It's something far beyond that. Pride.

A lot of people can't handle being wrong about something so dear and close to them, so they simply attack people with different opinions in the name of their religion, land, or whatever they use to justify themselves.

Too prideful to accept that other people are different. Too prideful to accept that you may never be a name known to all. Too prideful to accept that you're poor. Too prideful to change your ways. Too prideful to accept that the world may never change.

Acceptance is the first step to unification.

It's kind of funny really, the more people try for something, the more it slips away. It's not impossible though. Everyone just needs to be united under a goal, everyone needs to work together. Arguing over heads or tails will never change anything, as it's simply a flip of the coin.

Then again, there is the idea that ambitious people try so hard for their dreams, that they may push other people away. Of course, everyone deserves the chance to work hard for something, and unique is a good thing. But if everyone was under one goal, what then, would the point be in individuality?

Does individuality cause war? The fear of uniformity? If everyone did one thing, all individuality is gone. No more diversity. Is individuality something we must sacrifice for total peace? I sure hope not. I'm sure there is a way for the world to unite and keep the people unique. The world has several goals it needs accomplishing (Energy Crisis, Space, Water Crisis, Pollution, etc.)

Currently, it's goals are all country-based, but if everyone broadened there horizon to what can really cause trouble, then work could be done to overcome it. As long as people are united under goals, their will be peace. When a goal is finally reached, simply try for another one.

Just keep selflessly working for a brighter future for others to have.




I dunno, it's all so complicated and far above me, I couldn't begin to comprehend it. :/

 

[Shinobi Train]

Religion is not a cause. Nor greed, peace, blame, resources, land, or wealth. It's something far beyond that. Pride.

A lot of people can't handle being wrong about something so dear and close to them, so they simply attack people with different opinions in the name of their religion, land, or whatever they use to justify themselves.

Too prideful to accept that other people are different. Too prideful to accept that you may never be a name known to all. Too prideful to accept that you're poor. Too prideful to change your ways. Too prideful to accept that the world may never change.

Acceptance is the first step to unification.

It's kind of funny really, the more people try for something, the more it slips away. It's not impossible though. Everyone just needs to be united under a goal, everyone needs to work together. Arguing over heads or tails will never change anything, as it's simply a flip of the coin.

Then again, there is the idea that ambitious people try so hard for their dreams, that they may push other people away. Of course, everyone deserves the chance to work hard for something, and unique is a good thing. But if everyone was under one goal, what then, would the point be in individuality?

Does individuality cause war? The fear of uniformity? If everyone did one thing, all individuality is gone. No more diversity. Is individuality something we must sacrifice for total peace? I sure hope not. I'm sure there is a way for the world to unite and keep the people unique. The world has several goals it needs accomplishing (Energy Crisis, Space, Water Crisis, Pollution, etc.)

Currently, it's goals are all country-based, but if everyone broadened there horizon to what can really cause trouble, then work could be done to overcome it. As long as people are united under goals, their will be peace. When a goal is finally reached, simply try for another one.

Just keep selflessly working for a brighter future for others to have.




I dunno, it's all so complicated and far above me, I couldn't begin to comprehend it. :/

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to present to you a rare thing...I'm being told it's called "intelligence"...am I getting that right? Sorry, it's confusing due to it's nature, it's been a while since I saw it last.

Anyway, round of applaus please...

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OT: I've never heard this angle before, and I'm feeling rather stupid not having thought of this. I know what you're driving at, and your last line about it being complicated is certainly true. I can't even begin to explain it, but now that you've mentioned pride, I think I can understand it to some degree.

 

[Shinta]

In my opinion, the original reason would have been over resources. Whether that be land or food, that would have started the first war, not much else could start a conflict large enough to be called a war.

 

[Caliburn]

Don't just say "religion". Religion is just an excuse for war, not the cause. If the entire world was atheist, there would still be war, just different reasons. So why war? Why the killing? Is killing someone in war murder? Or is it just killing? Also, it was said that one day a war machine would be created that would end war since no one would have the heart to fight anymore. I think the atomic bomb was supposed to be that instrument, but it didn't have the intended effect for some reason. Why?

Also, one who is well prepared for war will have peace. So is it the instruments of war that fuel fighting? Or is the lack there of that allows it?

What are some other thoughts on war?

You have a few things wrong. For starters religion is not by default an excuse nor a cause. It can be, and has been, more than once the cause of a war, but likewise it has been an excuse and other times it didn't had any role at all. So you're already making a grave error by saying it's an excuse and not a cause as it can be both at the same time or none of the two.

Your title is also not very accurate as then you're implying that somehow all wars ever waged by man have some common origin, while in the case of human race there are countless of reasons.

I don't know who said that about a war machine, but I can guarantee you that no serious person actually ever believed that the atomic bomb would be the end of all wars. So asking why it wasn't, while it was simply never the intention to, the end of all wars is pretty useless. The atomic bomb had a very important role in ending WW II and in keeping the status quo with the Soviet Union alongside their entire nuclear arsenal as the SU had their own atomic bomb and nuclear weapons. They just wanted to avoid a direct confrontation as that could really cause a cataclysm. But it was never the point to end all wars, for that that atomic bomb was almost useless. The 20th century is after all the most warmongering century recorded in the human history. There hasn't been a century with more 'wars' than that one.

Btw for the record waging war is pretty much in our nature. You, or at least a lot of people, probably consider it something typically human, but in fact it's not so uncommon in the animal kingdom. It has been recorded on video that even primates go to war. I've seen a video where a group of apes assembled and assaulted a smaller group and then ripped of the losers testicles and threw them away and there are countless of examples of animals of the same species who fight with each other. Humans just 'perfected' the art of warfare if you want to look at it that way, but its origin isn't just human.

And the reasons as why people now wage war are really simple. Outside the fact that it's in our nature: cultural, political, religious, ethnic, economical, ideological and other reasons can all cause a war and often it are a mix of these that lead towards a war. Charlemagne waged a lot of wars where he converted the losers to Christianity, however he did not fought all those wars just for that. In hist time the German idea of a warrior-king was still very well alive and he needed to show that, it was a matter of honor, prestige and legitimacy of his power. Outside that it's no coincidence that his empire started to decline from the moment the conquests stopped. Land was needed as by giving away lands he obtained he could count on the loyalty of his soldiers as land was the most important source of income. When that stopped, everything crumbled (there were other reasons, but that takes too long to start explaining all that). This shows that it also had very important political and economical reasons, outside religious and cultural motivations. Something similar happened with the Romain Empire, from moment it stopped expanding, the empire started to decline as the conquered lands always provided access to new sources of income + prestige for the Roman Empire.

Often it even happened that the reason for why the war was originally started changed throughout the course of the war.

Even though the 'war' is something very complex, overall the reason as why people do it are very simple. There's not really much to understand about as they're quite common and logical. I'm not trying to justify people going to war, I'm just saying that a lot of people deem 'war' something unnatural and can't comprehend then why people would do it. But if you accept that 'war' is in fact something not unique to man and is very natural, the reason as why they do it are very easy to understand. After all people of all races on all continents have waged war for millennia. It's in fact way more unnatural to talk about why we would want to obtain peace than why we would want to wage war as 'peace' is a way more complex term for the human mind than 'war'.

 

[Xentinel]

War between countries in the modern days mostly got to do with the country's national interest.
Precisely, when the country's national interest is threatened, conflict occurs and if conflict cannot resolve peacefully, it will lead to war.
You can have countries fight for a piece of land especially if the land can meant alot to its national pride and defense, same goes to difference of ideologies (ex: Korean War), or scarce resources, because resources are not equally distributed across the world.

A civil war is a different story. Reasons like because of different of ideologies, calling for a revolution (ex: French Revolution), fight for separation or ethnicity.

War is indeed just not got to do with Religion. I will put religion under ethnicity and some part of different of ideologies. WWII mostly because of these crazy dictators wanted to rule the world. The german wanted to call for a german revolution over Europe, the Japan wanted to create an empire in Asia and so on.

And we always cant blame these people for making wars. The problem is with us. Mankind has this disease. And we must do something to prevent it. There's UN, NATO .. and so on to work as a prevention of war. Hopefully, these organizations are effective in their role.
And certainly, an atheistic world will of course not the solution.

 

[UchihaBrat]

I'd say partly self-awareness, not wanting to be the odd one out and sometimes wanting to be just that. There is more, but I'll only talk about these.

It is so hard to look at ourselves and our 'faults' that we'd rather look elsewhere, and change that to our liking or maybe eradicate it entirely. There are many ways to react and go about acting upon these feelings.
The thing with being self-aware is that we start comparing where there is no necessity to do so at all(maybe some don't, idk because I've seen very few not doing this). We may or may not like what we perceive and this with more factors such as whether we actually let it affect us, leads to arrogance and its opposition.

It is far easier to destroy rather than build, maybe because we're lazy or just don't care, but love in my own opinion is rarer than a blue moon.

About being the odd one out whether willingly or not, just look at bullying and those whom loath today's society; one part harasses those whom are different, whom may or may not give in to the pressure. The other part thinks that today's society or whatever it may be is so crazy that they don't mind being the odd one out, I'm partly part of that 'group'.
All these 'small' things lead to bigger and more destructive(on a larger scale) effects upon the so-called 'collective'.
Sure, sometimes it might just be fighting in order to survive(because we're too damn selfish to share), but I wonder whether that's all?

 

[Avani]

Spoiler

You have a few things wrong. For starters religion is not by default an excuse nor a cause. It can be, and has been, more than once the cause of a war, but likewise it has been an excuse and other times it didn't had any role at all. So you're already making a grave error by saying it's an excuse and not a cause as it can be both at the same time or none of the two.

Your title is also not very accurate as then you're implying that somehow all wars ever waged by man have some common origin, while in the case of human race there are countless of reasons.

I don't know who said that about a war machine, but I can guarantee you that no serious person actually ever believed that the atomic bomb would be the end of all wars. So asking why it wasn't, while it was simply never the intention to, the end of all wars is pretty useless. The atomic bomb had a very important role in ending WW II and in keeping the status quo with the Soviet Union alongside their entire nuclear arsenal as the SU had their own atomic bomb and nuclear weapons. They just wanted to avoid a direct confrontation as that could really cause a cataclysm. But it was never the point to end all wars, for that that atomic bomb was almost useless. The 20th century is after all the most warmongering century recorded in the human history. There hasn't been a century with more 'wars' than that one.

Btw for the record waging war is pretty much in our nature. You, or at least a lot of people, probably consider it something typically human, but in fact it's not so uncommon in the animal kingdom. It has been recorded on video that even primates go to war. I've seen a video where a group of apes assembled and assaulted a smaller group and then ripped of the losers testicles and threw them away and there are countless of examples of animals of the same species who fight with each other. Humans just 'perfected' the art of warfare if you want to look at it that way, but its origin isn't just human.

And the reasons as why people now wage war are really simple. Outside the fact that it's in our nature: cultural, political, religious, ethnic, economical, ideological and other reasons can all cause a war and often it are a mix of these that lead towards a war. Charlemagne waged a lot of wars where he converted the losers to Christianity, however he did not fought all those wars just for that. In hist time the German idea of a warrior-king was still very well alive and he needed to show that, it was a matter of honor, prestige and legitimacy of his power. Outside that it's no coincidence that his empire started to decline from the moment the conquests stopped. Land was needed as by giving away lands he obtained he could count on the loyalty of his soldiers as land was the most important source of income. When that stopped, everything crumbled (there were other reasons, but that takes too long to start explaining all that). This shows that it also had very important political and economical reasons, outside religious and cultural motivations. Something similar happened with the Romain Empire, from moment it stopped expanding, the empire started to decline as the conquered lands always provided access to new sources of income + prestige for the Roman Empire.

Often it even happened that the reason for why the war was originally started changed throughout the course of the war.

Even though the 'war' is something very complex, overall the reason as why people do it are very simple. There's not really much to understand about as they're quite common and logical. I'm not trying to justify people going to war, I'm just saying that a lot of people deem 'war' something unnatural and can't comprehend then why people would do it. But if you accept that 'war' is in fact something not unique to man and is very natural, the reason as why they do it are very easy to understand. After all people of all races on all continents have waged war for millennia. It's in fact way more unnatural to talk about why we would want to obtain peace than why we would want to wage war as 'peace' is a way more complex term for the human mind than 'war'.

Here comes the history geek to sum it all up.

 

[Amantius]

The reason for war is simple.---------------->Greed. People just want, want , want, and lost sight of being truly happen with what you have. The day the world learn this, is the day when war stop happening, it is the only solution to the problem.

 

[Shinobi Train]

You have a few things wrong. For starters religion is not by default an excuse nor a cause. It can be, and has been, more than once the cause of a war, but likewise it has been an excuse and other times it didn't had any role at all. So you're already making a grave error by saying it's an excuse and not a cause as it can be both at the same time or none of the two.

Your title is also not very accurate as then you're implying that somehow all wars ever waged by man have some common origin, while in the case of human race there are countless of reasons.

I don't know who said that about a war machine, but I can guarantee you that no serious person actually ever believed that the atomic bomb would be the end of all wars. So asking why it wasn't, while it was simply never the intention to, the end of all wars is pretty useless. The atomic bomb had a very important role in ending WW II and in keeping the status quo with the Soviet Union alongside their entire nuclear arsenal as the SU had their own atomic bomb and nuclear weapons. They just wanted to avoid a direct confrontation as that could really cause a cataclysm. But it was never the point to end all wars, for that that atomic bomb was almost useless. The 20th century is after all the most warmongering century recorded in the human history. There hasn't been a century with more 'wars' than that one.

Btw for the record waging war is pretty much in our nature. You, or at least a lot of people, probably consider it something typically human, but in fact it's not so uncommon in the animal kingdom. It has been recorded on video that even primates go to war. I've seen a video where a group of apes assembled and assaulted a smaller group and then ripped of the losers testicles and threw them away and there are countless of examples of animals of the same species who fight with each other. Humans just 'perfected' the art of warfare if you want to look at it that way, but its origin isn't just human.

And the reasons as why people now wage war are really simple. Outside the fact that it's in our nature: cultural, political, religious, ethnic, economical, ideological and other reasons can all cause a war and often it are a mix of these that lead towards a war. Charlemagne waged a lot of wars where he converted the losers to Christianity, however he did not fought all those wars just for that. In hist time the German idea of a warrior-king was still very well alive and he needed to show that, it was a matter of honor, prestige and legitimacy of his power. Outside that it's no coincidence that his empire started to decline from the moment the conquests stopped. Land was needed as by giving away lands he obtained he could count on the loyalty of his soldiers as land was the most important source of income. When that stopped, everything crumbled (there were other reasons, but that takes too long to start explaining all that). This shows that it also had very important political and economical reasons, outside religious and cultural motivations. Something similar happened with the Romain Empire, from moment it stopped expanding, the empire started to decline as the conquered lands always provided access to new sources of income + prestige for the Roman Empire.

Often it even happened that the reason for why the war was originally started changed throughout the course of the war.

Even though the 'war' is something very complex, overall the reason as why people do it are very simple. There's not really much to understand about as they're quite common and logical. I'm not trying to justify people going to war, I'm just saying that a lot of people deem 'war' something unnatural and can't comprehend then why people would do it. But if you accept that 'war' is in fact something not unique to man and is very natural, the reason as why they do it are very easy to understand. After all people of all races on all continents have waged war for millennia. It's in fact way more unnatural to talk about why we would want to obtain peace than why we would want to wage war as 'peace' is a way more complex term for the human mind than 'war'.

Why do all my discussions turn into debates? :ice: xd

Actually, you just gave a reason for war and violence in general, a very good one too. I don't think your bold at the top is legit, because your bold in the middle just negated that. If war is natural, like an instinct or something, then that means any reason is just an excuse.

Think about it. If the Romans, using your example, didn't really have to do it that way. A civilization does not have to survive by conquoring. Imagine that there aren't any countries, and everyone on the planet simply lived in peace, and everyone just had their plot of land. A family can easily survive by hunting their own food and growing crops. The only reason farmers need to grow so much is to support a country. Even that isn't enough though, apparently empires and such need to conquor also just to survive. So war itself only exists to serve the government...so why did we, as humans in the past, decide to even have countries?

It's pointless, and it only causes war. The very existance of countries, lets call them gangs since that's what they really are, creates this friction. Like tectonic plates scraping together. So what if we had never started these gangs which cause turf wars, and became more like an ocean instead of individual plates. I'm not saying one world government, I'm saying no government. There was a time so long ago that there were no governments, so why did we decide to even go there in the first place?

Okay, so maybe that's natural too, and once it's happened it's impossible to undo. Everything you mentioned is still a cause I guess, but that was created by another cause, so fighting over land or something is a secondary one. I'd still like to just call it an excuse though, because there's no reason for it if leaders would take a moment to think instead of just act.

I'm having trouble explaining myself kinda', does any of that make sense? ^_^

 

[SeriouslyNO]

these days, money/oil/selling weapons/etc... mostly comes with a group of countries,

 

[Nonomi]

simple in one word : Ego.

 

[ReLax -]

Different war, different things. We see war because of religion, power, oil, vengeance and even peace from time to time.

 

[Pulse]

C.I.A. - only half kidding

 

[narutokage99]

[video=youtube;owXtjrWACLg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owXtjrWACLg[/video]

 

[Shinobi Train]

[video=youtube;owXtjrWACLg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owXtjrWACLg[/video]

No...just no. Conspiracy theories are actually something that the human mind invents so that they have a greater explanation for tragic events...they can't accept the general consensus because it's too rational and not grand enough.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

The want for more.

War is fueled by the greed of the few who profit from it.

Religion, ethics, justice, fear, revenge, money, ect., etc. are all means towards controlling people. And these are all just reasons to trick some cannon fodder into joining in on the fun that is war.

 

['Toxic]

I think that no one truly wants a war but if you're like me, you will put your life on the line to protect your land. I'm an American and wouldn't think twice if they told me they wanted me to go to war against any country that threatens the U.S and our safety.
Protecting those who we love would be the main reason for me.
My father served in the military, I would too but my mother's always saying not to join and I can understand since I'm her only child now.

 

[AngryRock]

Greed, hatred and intolerance are what cause war IMO. Sometimes religion but more wars are battled over greed. Like kings would want more land, more power, etc... So then they go to war. Then you have rgoups of people who just hate each other and they eventually go to war.