Tobi/ObitoTheories: What, why and how and then some

[Etix]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Hey.

Sasuke became strong as hell after the timeskip. Why? Because of the sharingan, He has gotten "almost" all his power from his super eyes, and that's what gave Obito power!

The S/T jutsu Obito is using is all he needs to be strong! And that "probably" comes from his sharingan

 

[ZIAD5]

I'm loving how it is Obito because of the drama

 

[abister90]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Lol to the guy who said that Tobi/Obito is a Zetsu. Yeah... Zetsu is the big bad of the series XD. Get it through your head... TOBI IS OBITO. Let me say it again... TOBI IS OBITO. T-O-B-I is O-B-I-T-O! He is not a Zetsu, he is not a clone, he is not Madara, etc. He is Obito. Why would Kishimoto dedicate that entire chapter to Obito if it wasn't really him? Why wouldn't it be Obito? Kakashi's past is still a total mystery, is it not? We don't know much about Obito, Rin, or how Kakashi dealt with their passing (even though Obito is back).

People also said that Tobi could have been Izuna. What's the point? Would he have a motive? Sure. But since Madara is back, he could shed light about his own past when he reappears.

This will mean that two of the biggest mysteries will finally be solved:
1. Kakashi's past (mostly his team)
2. Madara will most likely shed light on his own past to unravel this mystery about the death of Izuna (people say that Madara took his eyes by force, others say that Izuna willingly gave his eyes to Madara and died later on in battle).

In other words, I'll say it again, Tobi is Obito. How did he survive? We don't know. Why didn't he return to the village? We don't know. Does he REALLY have Zetsu parts added to his body or is some other substance? We don't know.

All we can do is assume. All we can do is hope the Kishi will NOT change to the Kage battle or Sasuke tomorrow after giving us a glimpse of Obito. Like I said... there are not plotholes. Kishi created a great manga, awesome characters, and an awesome plot. I am 100% certain he kept the timeline this in mind when making Tobito. He is a writer. Writers usually have their characters planned out in advance, they know how the story will begin and end. In short, Kishi ALWAYS knew who Tobi was.

Again... if you guys want to believe he is a Zetsu, or Madara, or Izuna, or Vegeta XD... go ahead and make your theories. Just stop getting angry when people try to show you your theory is wrong. They are theories... all theories are wrong until proven correct by the author (Kishi).

Enough of this... let's just wait till tomorrow as see what happens.

PS -- Almost forgot to mention. People keep saying that Tobi can't be Obito because Minato didn't sense his student's chakra. Kakashi didn't sense it either. Keep in mind that Chakra can change over time. The nature of Sasuke's chakra has changed. His chakra is now dark and cold (evil/hatred). His chakra was different when he was good. Naruto can also change the nature of his Chakra. He does it often when he mixes it with the fox's. Chakra can change.

 

[KidGamer65]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

im sorry. you made me cry. i think ill go now. thank you for not listening me and not watching the episodes.

you clearly are in the group i mentioned before (stubborn, "mind blocked" people).
i think you could at least think for awhile and realize hes a zetsu.

besides that you completely ignore the fact that obito would never have a reason to be evil, the fact that it is impossible for someone to become 1 of the strongest characters alive in a short period of time (1/2 years), and the fact that when tobi fought minato he was an adult while kakashi, having the same age as obito, still was a teenager.

Bold is irrelevant since I never said he was Obito.

And Concession accepted since you won't or rather CAN'T disprove my claims.

Tobi being Zetsu is another theory I have to add to my list of stupid theories.

 

[Kakashii]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Bold is irrelevant since I never said he was Obito.

And Concession accepted since you won't or rather CAN'T disprove my claims.

Tobi being Zetsu is another theory I have to add to my list of stupid theories.

ok you are just trolling. i cant believe you cant realize that. like tobi is obito but a zetsu obito is the only way to put the plot together.

every time someone like you opens their mouth to talk, i suffer from despair.

lets just see what happens tomorrow. if kishi answer our questions and explains this shit, pm me and we'll see who was right/wrong.

 

[KidGamer65]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

ok you are just trolling. i cant believe you cant realize that. like tobi is obito but a zetsu obito is the only way to put the plot together.

every time someone like you opens their mouth to talk, i suffer from despair.

lets just see what happens tomorrow. if kishi answer our questions and explains this shit, pm me and we'll see who was right/wrong.

Except I never opened my mouth to talk, I moved my hands to type.

I say: He is not a Zetsu
You say: he is an Obito Zetsu clone.

Don't be too shocked when you're wrong.

EDIT: changed my post cause I'm not arguing for Tobito

 

[Kakashii]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Except I never opened my mouth to talk, I moved my hands to type.

I say: He is not a Zetsu, he is Obito with Zetsu goo.
You say: he is an Obito clone.

Don't be too shocked when you're wrong.

...that was kind of unnecessary...

and well i say, dont deny possibilities.

 

[Amelius]

So I think I have worked out the significance of Minato's face among the other Hokage but am hesitant to post it because it really could mess up the manga for some folks. I'm gonna throw a spoiler on this one so don't say I didn't warn you.

Spoiler

I've long maintained that Narutoverse is caught in a temporal loop. The head that doesn't fit the timeline is representative of a cycle in the loop. Much like Izanami certain elements may differ slightly like the accumulating feathers, what's being said, relative body positions, but the main points of the loop cycle continue unabated. This means the time of when Minato was named Hokage changed in one of the cycles and occurred earlier. This could also explain other inconsistencies. and I for one am relieved to know that Kishi is not just asleep at the wheel. That one was too obvious, no way it was overlooked. Kishimoto you beautiful beast, you better never play cards against me. (Who said your wish is granted? Smarta$$!).

I was beginning to think you were not going to bring up your time-loop theory again... nice to see it again being it one of the more interesting theories and seems you have made a few small changes to it.. very nice!

 

[Ieatbabies]

I believe in the two Tobi theory. I think Danzo was the original Tobi. His character is twisted and always using ideals that do not follow the rest of the Ninja world.

Danzo had Shisui's eye. The activation time period for that eye fits inline with the control of the Mizukage during "Tobi's" appearance to Kisame. They eye hole of the mask was in the correct place for Danzo to be the original Tobi. Danzo wearing a mask with a single eyehole maybe to confuse his attackers or allies into believing he is Uchiha full and through.

Plus the original mask looks like a ANBU mask to me and he was head of the ANBU.

I believe there may have been an alliance between Danzo and Madara at one point in time. Danzo could have rescued Obito and with the help of Zetsu reconstructed his messed up body. I agree that Zetsu was created, but I feel as Orochimaru was the original creator of the Zetsu in order to infiltrate Akatski at first and gather information... possibly to follow Itachi on Danzo's orders. Oro, Danzo I feel have a connection to the Tobi character.

Afterall, remember what Obito/Tobi says to Danzo at the bridge where Sasuke battles him??? Very Key conversation there. "We meet again". Danzo looked very surprised to see Tobi right? Danzo may have decided to back off from his original plan which he raises Obito to succeed and tries to kill off Obito. This may have been possible after the Uchiha slaughter.

1. The 1st Tobi was most likely Madara or Zetsu who controlled the Mizukage. If you go watch the episode or read the Manga where Tobi meets Kisame, you see Tobi in the darkness, but you see the back of him; sort of like a silhouette. If you notice closely that Tobi had long hair. The 2nd Tobi (Obito) does not. We all know corpses can't continue to age and or grow after bring revived by E.T and I don't think Obito's going to got to the local barber for a hair cut when he's a terrorist lol.

2. Danzo was never Tobi 1 or 2. All that Danzo was was the head of a special ops group for Konohagakure. His role was to protect his village through extreme measures by any means necessary. But Danzo did have a meeting with Tobi before the Uchiha Massacre.

3. Orochimaru has no connection to tobi, Madara and is no longer part of Akatsuki. He also said he had no interest in the 4th war only Sasuke

4. Also going back to Danzo and Tobi. At no point did it indicate Madara or Obito met. Only Tobi and only person to know Danzo personally was Kagami who was part of Danzo's team TOBIrama. We can all assume Kagami is controlling Obito's body?

 

[GioSaysRawr]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

I see people just don't want to burst out of the delusion that Tobi is someone else than Obito. Well this is to help you face your denial, Tobi is Obito and here's a few of your claimed "plotholes" debunked.


"Obito was 14 during the Konoha attack"
I'm yet to see any true evidence about him being 14 during the Konoha attack, and I really don't see where the hell people pulled this crap out of. Anti-Obito theorists just made this up to have the whole timeline plot hole, so I don't see it as a valid argument.

"Obito could not have fought Minato with his combat experience"
Obito did not defeat Minato, he got his ass kicked hard. He didn't even manage to land a blow on Minato. So don't talk as if they were on the same levels.

"Obito could not have summoned the Kyuubi at his age"
Again, there's no evidence about him being 14, but let's assume your nonsense is true and he was 14, so what? Naruto has been cheating his way out of fights with the Kyuubi ever since he was 13. And at 16 he's mastered it to a whole different level than Obito could ever have. When you're a Uchiha and know the right jutsu to do it, what's stopping you from doing so?

"Obito could not have manipulated the Mizukage"
We have very, very little information about this, and everyone's been jumping into the conclusion that the Mizukage was under a genjutsu. But last I checked the only person in the entire shinobi world capable of manipulating people to such an extent is Uchiha Shisui, and his eyes ended up in Itachi and Danzo's possession, not Obito's. What if Obito simply had him blackmailed? We don't know anything about this so this shouldn't even be an argument for any side.

"Obito could not have given Rinnegan to Nagato"
It wasn't Obito who gave him Rinnegan, it was Madara himself before he died.

"Obito could not have helped Yahiko start the Akatsuki"
People think Tobi started the Akatsuki with Yahiko because they believe he's Madara's secret assistant. Well sorry to burst your bubble but Madara's almost certainly been referring to Zetsu as his assistant all this time. We know Madara got his hands on Hashirama DNA, and it's easy to assume he just somehow got Zetsu made out of it. Zetsu got entrusted the mission of recruiting members and finding someone like Obito to take over later on.

"Obito would not have turned evil"
Because "turning" evil isn't a part of these series, I mean Sasuke, Nagato, Konan, and a few others didn't just decide to have their justice done against Konoha. Unless you watch this through Kishimoto's eyes where Naruto is the ultimate form of justice, there's no good and evil in these series, Konohagakure are also jerks who've been abusing of plot no jutsu since the dawn of time to dictate their rules over others, including a clan of their own, the Uchiha. There's plenty of reasons to "turn evil".

"Obito was dead"
Well clearly he's not so dead given he's walking around right now. Orochimaru got killed and then sealed for eternity in a sword that can never be recovered again (due to Itachi being dead), yet he just walked back into the series as if it were is daily routine. So why are you surprised that Obito somehow survived that boulder?

"Obito was unskilled"
So was Naruto and how he's completely overpowered.

... if you got any more ideas bring them in, getting bored now.

EDIT: Here's some more

Obito could not know about Hashirama and Madara
Why the hell not? Everyone who's curious enough does. Besides, he just got all he needed to know from Zetsu. Everything Madara knew, Zetsu knows. Everything Zetsu knows, Obito knows. It's that simple.

THANK YOU. Someone with enough oxygen in their brain and blood. Here's my theory as well so if anyone wants to build upon this, feel free.

"All of the hints leading up to this being Obito, a chapter titled, "Obito Uchiha", the mask being broken and it showing Obi-****ing-to and the lot of you are still dismissing it ?! Talk about pride, huh? Kishi has never made sense with half of the mangas he writes until later, when he decides to pop out some answers.

Okay, do you all remember when Sasuke resurrected Orochimaru because he wanted to visit "the one who knows everything"? Who is this mysterious new character in the Naruto world and if he/she knows everything, then they must have been around since the beginning. Now, could this man/woman have found Obito? It's possible. Could this man/woman have brain-washed Obito like "Tobi" did to Sasuke? That is also possible. Kishi has proved time and time again that anything is possible and yet all of you dismiss clarities beyond belief.

This "one who knows everything" is the biggest plot-hole in Naruto and could have easily influenced Obito. It is said the Tobi gave the rinnegan to Nagato and that it couldn't be Obito because Obito is younger than Nagato, but could it be possible that the person who gave the Rinnegan to OBITO in the first place, is this mysterious character that Sasuke has gone to see? VERY possible.

Zetsu's ability is regeneration and it is likely that, like Orochimaru and his experimentations, Obito was experimented on to regenerate his face with the Zetsu DNA. This also explains why after being burnt by Amaterasu, he regenerated his arm's tissue. So, we know that OBITO could be infused with Zetsu DNA. Is it also possible that if Zetsu's DNA, like stem cell research, could also influence his age? Yes, but people are basing his age off of the fight with the 4th when he summoned the Nine-Tails because he "looked the same". Please don't try trolling with height because during the fight, height could not possibly be distinguished. The mysterious man (keep in mind) could have also taught Obito whatever it was that he needed to know if in fact he is the one that "knows" everything.

I could keep going, but I'll build off of what people reply to this.

Also, no matter what happens; even if Kishi literally says, "It's Obito", people will still conclude irrational reasons as to rule out the possibility. What's so wrong with Obito being the masked man? He seems to have a personal vendetta against Kakashi, as hinted more than a dozen-damn times that he's Obito while conversing with both Kakashi and Guy, said that Guy doesn't remember faces and when you look at the flashbacks of Manga 599, Guy is fighting Obito and loses. Why is Guy fighting Obito the most during recent mangas? I swear, the little things that most of you miss..."

 

[Uxellius]

Re: Tobi/Obito Choose Your Own Adventure Game!

Me died +rep all the way for the lulz

 

[B00m]

60%+ people still in denial, kidding me right...

I'll snap out of my "denial" when it's explained, not when it's confirmed during an all visual chapter, which contain questionable plot holes for now. For now, yes it's Obito, there is no way around that, but I think there is more to it, it's chapter 600, some big reveal has to happen.

 

[Whiteknight]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

As the title says,I think that Tobi can't be Obito,because there are too many plot holes.

First of all,Tobi was controlling the mizukage,when Obito wasn't even born or was very little.(You might say that the one controlling the mizukage was Madara,which may be true).

Let's say that Obito was saved by Zetsu and trained by Madara,that still doesn't explain how he got so powerful,knew everything and learned about Kurama and how to control it.And if I remember corectly,he said when he was taking out Kurama from Kushina that he waited a long time for this.How is this possible when he was like 14?And his voice changed so much after just a year.A year before he was a little kid that could be beaten by Rin,and after a year he went toe-to-toe with Minato,the fourth hokage.

So,in my opinion,someone uses Obito's body and controlles it.What are your thoughts?

The timeline can work, but it's very weird:

1) Obito "dies" in the third ninja war
2) Obito is resurrected/fixed/turned into a zetsu clone by Akatsuki
3) "Madara" travels to Konoha to unleash the fox and kill Minato
4) "Madara" travels to Kirigakure to become the Mizukage
5) "Madara" kills Yagura but doesn't capture the 3-tails
6) "Madara" travels to Konoha for the Uchiha massacre
7) Obito disappears completely for about 15 years.
8) "Tobi" joins (re-joins?) Akatsuki as Deidara's partner

With this ordering, you have to assume that he spent about 15 years in a cave somewhere, because he didn't show his real face to anybody, and wearing the mask in a public place would have drawn attention to himself. Also, he wasn't active in Akatsuki at this time and nobody except Pain and Konoha knew who he was.

We can try a slightly different ordering:

3) "Madara" travels to Konoha to unleash the fox and kill Minato
4) "Madara" travels to Konoha for the Uchiha massacre
5) "Madara" travels to Kirigakure to become the Mizukage, and is Mizukage for about 15 years.

...but here, we have a similar, but smaller gap between his attack with the fox and the Uchiha massacre during which time he appears to have accomplished nothing. That's still about 3-6 years where he wasn't present in any of the known villages and wasn't participating openly in Akatsuki. Plus, it means that Kisame would have become a member of Akatsuki much later, which is weird since he was one of the first ones recruited for the current form of Akatsuki. In this case, Kisame and all the Akatsuki members we know (except Pain and Konan, obviously) would have had to be recruited within only the last 15 years (and only really started capturing Bijuu around 3 years ago, right before the time skip).

If you assume that he moved from Konoha to Kirigakure pretty quickly (which means he must have had a plan, even though he didn't really accomplish anything while he was there) the timeline can work. It's just weird and there are a lot of unanswered questions.

 

[supino]

So I think I have worked out the significance of Minato's face among the other Hokage but am hesitant to post it because it really could mess up the manga for some folks. I'm gonna throw a spoiler on this one so don't say I didn't warn you.

Spoiler

I've long maintained that Narutoverse is caught in a temporal loop. The head that doesn't fit the timeline is representative of a cycle in the loop. Much like Izanami certain elements may differ slightly like the accumulating feathers, what's being said, relative body positions, but the main points of the loop cycle continue unabated. This means the time of when Minato was named Hokage changed in one of the cycles and occurred earlier. This could also explain other inconsistencies. and I for one am relieved to know that Kishi is not just asleep at the wheel. That one was too obvious, no way it was overlooked. Kishimoto you beautiful beast, you better never play cards against me. (Who said your wish is granted? Smarta$$!).

this actually makes sense.... and it could fit in the entire theme of endless wars, curse of hate, will of fire, etc. DAMN! it makes perfect sense! +rep. great idea!

 

[Gyakusetsu]

I was beginning to think you were not going to bring up your time-loop theory again... nice to see it again being it one of the more interesting theories and seems you have made a few small changes to it.. very nice!

Thanks man. It wasn't until the last chapter that I felt confident that the inconsistencies themselves were also a reveal. Jiraiya: "Oh yeah! I forgot I'm Naruto's Godfather." You get the idea.

 

[Krish]

Well for the first thing remember that Tobi had 2 personalities !

- one that was goofy ( when he was with Deidara )

- one that was serious ! ( after he reveald himslef to Kisame )

Also Tobi keeps body parts in case that he is getting hit !

You must be registered for see images

His body has zetsu goo and its not a normal body !

You must be registered for see images

In the Databook we have something very important

(うちはイズナ, Uchiha Izuna)

Birthdate February 10
Gender Male
Age Deceased
Height 174.8 cm
Weight 55.9 kg

(うちはオビト, Uchiha Obito)

Birthdate February 10
Gender Male
Age 13 (Deceased)
Height 154.2cm
Weight 44.5kg

- Both Izuna and Obito are from the uchiha clan !
- Both Izuna and Obito lost their eyes !
- Both Izuna and Obito are born in the same day of the same month

Conclusion: Obito was the perfect host for Izuna Uchiha !
Izuna soul and consciousness in Obito body !

The databook info about their birthdays is a good hint. I don't think they'd put the same birthdays for 2 characters that are supposed to be one entity (Tobi) if they wanted it to be a mystery.
Unless they wanted real Naruto fans (like you Sir) to notice and point it out.

But then again.... they could just not make it Izuna at the end and justify by saying that it could simply be a coincidence that they share the same birthday!

I like this info though - it makes the guess game for who Tobi really is even more complex! +rep

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Re: Tobi/Obito Choose Your Own Adventure Game!

This is the best thread I have ever read. +rep and huge thank you for putting your time into making this. You have a seriously good sense of humour too ;D

I have this image in my head of Obito being this awkward, clumsy masked man clutz who can't do anything right or get things to go to plan. It's really quite adorable.

 

[InGyeong]

I was from the beginning wondering why Kishi makes efforts to show the Uchiha symbol so clearly.
That brought me to following theory:
Tobis existence is linked to the whole (!) Uchiha Clans (!) existence.
Tobi is something like the soul of the Uchiha Clan.

He can adapt all appereances of dead Uchiha guys (except they are under Edo Tensei)
Therefore Tobi is everything: Obito, Madara, Izuna... He is just choosing the most fitting guy.

Next thought coming up through this theory:

Maybe the Clans people are somehow still not dead but hiding and waiting for the moment when the tsukiyome is over and want to errect a new Ninja population afterwards
That is the place where Oro i guding Sasuke right now: Then he can meet his parents and ask them everything...

Waaah! I hate that chapter! Makes me invent one new story after another other... How can I live for the next hours???

BTW does anyone know why the Uchiha Name is Uchiha?

 

[NULL SNIPER]

Re: Tobi can't possible be Obito

Yeah basically Obito's dead body would've basically been recovered by zetsu or zetsu's master (maybe madara) & Zetsu would've rebuilt HALF of Obito's body & Madara or someone w/ a Rinnegan could've returned obito's soul to Obito's body & thus revived him as sort of a cyborg not completely human.

sorry for the run-on sentence but thats how I role
the explanations are there you just have to look hard

 

[Gyakusetsu]

this actually makes sense.... and it could fit in the entire theme of endless wars, curse of hate, will of fire, etc. DAMN! it makes perfect sense! +rep. great idea!

Thanks, it's still up to everyone to figure out who, what, where, why and how related. I have my theory but so do others.