My take on Nagato's eyes and Tobi being Obito

[KidGamer65]

I believe at first there was Madara and Tobi. Before Madara died he gave Tobi his eyes, Tobi then went on to give them to Nagato. Afterwards something must have happened to Tobi to where he couldn't complete Madara's original plan. So Tobi then went on to find someone who could.. this is where Obito comes into play. Tobi found him, saved him and influenced him enough to change his way and turned him evil and what not.
What do you guys think?

JUST A THEORY SO PLEASE DON'T CRY ABOUT IT.

Your theory is good, but if we go by this then Tobi/Obito wouldn't know Madara.

 

[Out Of Ctrl]

Thats the whole plothole mate init.

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[The God of Wind]

Basically, I was looking through the manga and there are certain things which I feel just do not fit together, especially in the wake of 599's "revelation". If you see any flaws in my reasoning/logic, feel free to point them out.

So what do we know about Nagato's eyes?

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that he was the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan during his battle with Konan. What's important to note here is that Tobi was pretending to be the real Madara Uchiha when he said this, as confirmed

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.

Now, the manga certainly makes out that Nagato's eyes were indeed transplanted. How? Well;

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  (through Muu) that the
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  is the natural progression of the Sharingan, and Nagato failed to show any Sharingan techniques
• Nagato did not show the ability to switch his dojutsu off, even after his
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But i'm calling bullshit on that idea. Why? Madara claimed to have awakened the Rinnegan

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his death - it's only logical to assume that if Madara really did give Nagato his eyes, he would've died around that time (2nd shinobi war), no? The problem here is, Kishimoto himself confirmed that Madara and Tobi know eachother; if Tobi really is Obito, Madara would've had to at least of lived until the 3rd shinobi war. There are also points in the manga which suggest that Madara is aware of Tobi;

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and having knowledge of

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,

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etc.

So if Madara and Tobi do indeed know eachother, which has been pretty much 100% confirmed, and Tobi is Obito, how can Madara have given Nagato the Rinnegan? Madara died shortly after awakening the eyes, and Nagato was taught by a Jiraiya in his mid twenties - A man who taught a young Minato who then taught Obito. It just cannot fit. Then again, Madara

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by name, which again gives the impression that his eyes were implanted so that the young Uzumaki boy could one day revive him with Rinne Tensei. But another issue which arises is the idea that there were two Tobis. I find it hard to believe that Obito, who received a 1 in intelligence in the databooks, could've planned everything alone. Then there's also the mysterious

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who met Itachi, a man who many members believe to be the real Madara Uchiha. After all, this is a visual manga and visual things (like haircuts) are clues left to us by Kishimoto - characters don't just randomly change things like that. Even look at his posture; it certainly resembles that of Madara. But again, ask yourself, how can Madara be alive at this time (Uchiha clan Massacre) if he died shortly after awakening the Rinnegan, a Rinnegan "given to Nagato" years before that?

Essentially, I believe that it's impossible for Tobi to be Obito in mind and soul if Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan, since Tobi and Madara are familiar with eachother. One could say that Nagato really did awaken the Rinnegan (though that presents a problem in itself since that'd be like saying you can awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan without awakening the 3 tomoe first), though this goes against overwhelming evidence in the manga. This stance, however, does allow for Tobi being Obito. The other route is that Madara really did give Nagato the Rinnegan, but that'd mean that Tobi is someone who was born before that time (because he and Madara know eachother and Madara should've died then) - he could not be Obito; rather, someone using Obito's body as a vessel.

To summarize: 'Tobi is Obito (in mind and body)' and 'Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan' are two mutually exclusive statements; they can't both be true at the same time.

Thoughts? Because, quite frankly, i'm stumped.

Here is why and this might be a spoiler, so you were warned:

Spoiler

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[OnPoint]

Thats the whole plothole mate init.

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It could all be solved by Tobi not being Obito in mind and soul

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Here is why and this might be a spoiler, so you were warned:

Spoiler

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So you're basically saying Tobi isn't 100% Obito, which is understandable. I'm not saying Tobi can't be 100% Obito, i'm merely saying this cannot be the case if Nagato has Madara's eyes, which the manga strongly suggests.

 

[SuperFlyzzED]

Agreed. But I still don't get how Nagato got his rinneggan. We saw it in anime how he got it, but we don't know if Nagato was being a troll there

Exactly!

 

[Gooner4life]

Time travel is the only solution to this problem in my eyes, but then, why didn't Obito simply go back and kill Minato etc? In addition, he could've simply re-done many of the failed Akatsuki battles - i.e. gone back and helped Pain finish the job against Naruto, or stopped Nagato from killing himself/reviving Konoha.

If it is indeed time travel, it would have to be very limited in its use, possibly like KA.

 

[SilverSlick]

Possibly, Madara entrusted Zetsu or Tobi into influencing Nagato. Like the other guy mentioned, he wouldn't entrust a child to revive him. So Madara MUST have had an accomplice. It surely can't be Obito because of his age.

It was probably all planned. The death of Nagato's parents, him meeting Yahiko and Konan, the formation of Akatsuki, Yahiko's death, and Nagato's fall.

There seems to be some type of collaboration between Tobi, Orochimaru, Danzo and quite possibly Madara himself.

No one has been able to explain this either

Spoiler

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I swear there is some connection between Danzo, Tobi, Zetsu, Orochimaru, Nagato, Kabuto and Madara.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Shortly after awakening my rinnegan is a vague term, it could me 2 seconds, 2 minutes, 2 months, 2 years.

 

[OnPoint]

If it is indeed time travel, it would have to be very limited in its use, possibly like KA.

Perhaps, but he has Shodai's DNA, which speeds these things up. And there'd be better places to go and visit, like Rikudo Sennin's death. He could've ambushed the Sage and taken the Juubi as his own there and then :/

Shortly after awakening my rinnegan is a vague term, it could me 2 seconds, 2 minutes, 2 months, 2 years.

In this case, it'd have to mean like 10 years at least :/

 

[zombiejesus]

i still say nagatos eyes were his own he was an uzumaki witch is a relative of the senju direct decedent of the sage who had the eyes yea the uchiha got the eyes and the senju the body but who is to say what a uzumaki could get they have dna handed down by the sage also they could get a sharingan or rinnegan once and while maybe we dont know

the fact that the senju never got a sharingan and the uchiha never got the "body/spirit" is dumb anyway they both have the same grandfather so they would both be able to get any of his traits ....shits weak


edit: if there is time travel involved with naruto in any way i am done reading it.

 

[serpiente clan]

the only problem is in madar vs hashirama....

the manga said in the fight of madara vs hashirama madara was the 1 ho get the most damage of the fight, allmost that hashirama think he was dead....ok

how can madara live 40 year more after that fight and the 1 hokage died before madara, i dont belive that and how he get rinnegan and give the eye to i baby that he dint now, and how he see were the baby was,he remove hes on eye, that make no sense......

the manga said nagato was born we rinnegan to bring peace to the world that was the profecy of the sage toad...

i think we need to w8 2 more manga to make thread about this...

 

[OnPoint]

Possibly, Madara entrusted Zetsu or Tobi into influencing Nagato. Like the other guy mentioned, he wouldn't entrust a child to revive him. So Madara MUST have had an accomplice. It surely can't be Obito because of his age.

It was probably all planned. The death of Nagato's parents, him meeting Yahiko and Konan, the formation of Akatsuki, Yahiko's death, and Nagato's fall.

There seems to be some type of collaboration between Tobi, Orochimaru, Danzo and quite possibly Madara himself.

No one has been able to explain this either

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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I swear there is some connection between Danzo, Tobi, Zetsu, Orochimaru, Nagato, Kabuto and Madara.

It's the Kushina one which gets me. He speaks as if he's waited eons to get the Kyuubi; for Obitio; it'd only have been one year :/

 

[TrollingSage]

Possibly, Madara entrusted Zetsu or Tobi into influencing Nagato. Like the other guy mentioned, he wouldn't entrust a child to revive him. So Madara MUST have had an accomplice. It surely can't be Obito because of his age.

It was probably all planned. The death of Nagato's parents, him meeting Yahiko and Konan, the formation of Akatsuki, Yahiko's death, and Nagato's fall.

There seems to be some type of collaboration between Tobi, Orochimaru, Danzo and quite possibly Madara himself.

No one has been able to explain this either

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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I swear there is some connection between Danzo, Tobi, Zetsu, Orochimaru, Nagato, Kabuto and Madara.

Madara also seems to know Tobi and at the same time he knows Nagato.

Shortly after awakening my rinnegan is a vague term, it could me 2 seconds, 2 minutes, 2 months, 2 years.

Well seeing as its of the general consesus that he transplanted his eyes to Nagato, he couldnt have lived long after Nagato got his rinnegan, hence he shouldnt know Tobi/Obito

 

[SilverSlick]

It's the Kushina one which gets me. He speaks as if he's waited eons to get the Kyuubi; for Obitio; it'd only have been one year :/

The one that gets me is the first one. He said he gained Hashirama's cells in their fight. But he was talking right in front of Kabuto and Zetsu, the only two guys who know he isn't Madara:|

 

[R4mbl3]

I don't think he died near the time of VOTE.



That's interesting, but who would this 'Tobi' be? Because you'd have Madara, Tobi and Obito, and alot of people think that Tobi is Obito and Obito alone after chapter 599.

Look at Tobi's hair, It looks like Obito's, But also looks like Zetsu's hair as well.
I think Tobi was Zetsu first. Zetsu couldn't use the Rinnegan for himself because he wasn't able. So i think Zetsu gave Nagato the eyes, not Madara. Zetsu most likely saw great potential in Obito, used his way of thinking and changed it around and influenced him, just like what happened to Nagato. I think Zetsu was the third person.

 

[TheHokage]

Yeah I agree Kishi certainly has some explaining to do the timing is virtually impossible I have also thought of similar ideas such as why did Madara out of everyone in the world give Nagato the Rinnegan and at such a young age as Madara calls Nagato a little brat so I'm assuming Madara knew Nagato when he was a child and if that's the case who was it who told Yahiko to start Akatsuki since I doubt Obito would of been old enough. I think Zetsu has a much bigger part than we all know in this so I'm going to wait and find out.

 

[The God of Wind]

So you're basically saying Tobi isn't 100% Obito, which is understandable. I'm not saying Tobi can't be 100% Obito, i'm merely saying this cannot be the case if Nagato has Madara's eyes, which the manga strongly suggests.

And why not? Explain

 

[zombiejesus]

i think kishi keeps changeing things maybe he is under too much pressure to create good stuff he wants it to be perfect but instead he ****ed it all up lol

 

[RHCP]

I believe at first there was Madara and Tobi. Before Madara died he gave Tobi his eyes, Tobi then went on to give them to Nagato. Afterwards something must have happened to Tobi to where he couldn't complete Madara's original plan. So Tobi then went on to find someone who could.. this is where Obito comes into play. Tobi found him, saved him and influenced him enough to change his way and turned him evil and what not.
What do you guys think?

JUST A THEORY SO PLEASE DON'T CRY ABOUT IT.

Doesn't fit, man. Tobi used S/T Ninjutsu against Minato (Kamui to be exact). This means that he had Obito's eye, yet Obito was too young to be Tobi back then. Thus, I believe that Tobi is one person. Especially since Kisame showed that the long haired Tobi and short haired Tobi are one and the same.

 

[R4mbl3]

Your theory is good, but if we go by this then Tobi/Obito wouldn't know Madara.

They would know ea. other through Zetsu.
Zetsu is the KEY here.