Plothole Number 1: Tobi’s Power Level (chapters 500-504). There is no way Obito could turn into an alpha dog shinobi who mastered S/T phasing and teleportation within a 1-2 year time frame. At 15 years old? No way... There is also no way Obito would know how to extract the Kyuubi, hypnotize it, control it like a puppet, and then summon it wherever the hell he wants to. And all of this is supposed to have happened 1-2 years after Obito supposedly died? That’s just not feasible.
Plothole Number 2: Personality U-turn (chapter 241 page 19). "Of course those in the ninja world who break the rules and regulations are called trash... but those who don’t care about their companions are even worse than trash." Will of Fire talk from Obito. It makes no sense for. him to suddenly manifest this unwavering vendetta against Konoha unless Tobi is just using Obito’s body as a vessel, in which case, Tobi isn’t really Obito anyway because his soul and spirit have nothing to do with it.
Plothole Number 3: Kushina Quote (chapter 501 page 7). "Do you have ANY idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?" It’s a complete contradiction for Obito to say something like that when, hypothetically, he wouldn’t have been alive long enough to make that type of comment because Obito would have been 15 years old if he fought Minato. Tobi has probably had to wait DECADES for the opportunity to extract the Kyuubi from its host.
Plothole Number 4: Kyuubi recognised Tobi (chapter 501 page 8 ). The Kyuubi actually recognises Tobi and possibly knows who he is. If THAT doesn’t convince you, nothing will. The Kyuubi made a direct transfer from being sealed into Mito to being sealed into Kushina, so there is a fundamental contradiction for the Kyuubi to recognise anyone in the outside world when it was sealed for all that time. If the Kyuubi actually recognised Tobi, it means Tobi has to be someone who was alive during Hashirama/Madara’s generation.
Plothole Number 5: Tobi is too tall (chapter 503 page 9). Tobi was shown to be adult sized when he fought Minato, chapter 503 page 5. But on page 9, Kakashi, Gai, Asuma and Kurenai are all shown to be much shorter as they are going through adolescence. Obito would have been around that size and is therefore too short to be Tobi.
Plothole Number 6: Minato would’ve figured it out (chapter 500-504). If Tobi was really Obito, then Minato would have figured it out when they were fighting each other. Obito was Minato’s own student and would have recognised his chakra, but he didn’t.
Plothole Number 7: This is HIS doing (chapter 560 page 2). "This is HIS doing." That means Madara knows exactly who Tobi is, but there is no way Madara could have worked with Obito because Madara had died already. We know this because by the time Nagato gets Madara's Rinnegan from Tobi, Madara is officially dead - "I awakened these eyes shortly before my death." (chapter 560 page 15). This is important because Nagato is older than Minato, and Minato is older than Obito.
Plothole Number 8: Hashirama Comparison (chapter 462 page 14). Tobi says to Naruto "I can see the first Hokage in you." To make that type of comparison Tobi must have known what Hashirama was like as a person. Problem is, Hashirama was dead before Obito was born.
Plothole Number 9: During Our Battle (chapter 512 page 9). "This is something I grew from living tissue I stole from him during our battle." Kabuto already revealed the Madara coffin so there was no reason for Tobi to keep lying. So if Tobi actually had a fight with Hashirama there is no way he could be Obito.
Plothole Number 10: Too Much Knowledge. It is impossible for Obito to know so much about the bloody history between the Senju clan and the Uchiha clan before Konoha was even established as a shinobi village. Tobi has to be someone from that generation. It is also impossible for Obito to know so much about Rikudou Sennin, his sons, the Bijuu and the Juubi.
THE BIGGEST PLOTHOLE OF THEM ALL.
Plothole Number 11: Nagato is much older than Obito.
Why is this important? Because Tobi GAVE Nagato the Rinnegan. In other words, it is impossible for Obito to have given kid Nagato the Rinnegan because Obito is much younger than Nagato.
i predict that he is izuna kagami ( and father of obito perhaps) or some random new char and if so i predict reactions similar to when amon turned out to be a new char that didin't eppear in the previous seris. if you want someone who did the bad thing that we saw ebfore the bad guy papered watch scooby doo
Plothole Number 1: Tobi’s Power Level (chapters 500-504). There is no way Obito could turn into an alpha dog shinobi who mastered S/T phasing and teleportation within a 1-2 year time frame. At 15 years old? No way... There is also no way Obito would know how to extract the Kyuubi, hypnotize it, control it like a puppet, and then summon it wherever the hell he wants to. And all of this is supposed to have happened 1-2 years after Obito supposedly died? That’s just not feasible.
Plothole Number 2: Personality U-turn (chapter 241 page 19). "Of course those in the ninja world who break the rules and regulations are called trash... but those who don’t care about their companions are even worse than trash." Will of Fire talk from Obito. It makes no sense for. him to suddenly manifest this unwavering vendetta against Konoha unless Tobi is just using Obito’s body as a vessel, in which case, Tobi isn’t really Obito anyway because his soul and spirit have nothing to do with it.
Plothole Number 3: Kushina Quote (chapter 501 page 7). "Do you have ANY idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?" It’s a complete contradiction for Obito to say something like that when, hypothetically, he wouldn’t have been alive long enough to make that type of comment because Obito would have been 15 years old if he fought Minato. Tobi has probably had to wait DECADES for the opportunity to extract the Kyuubi from its host.
Plothole Number 4: Kyuubi recognised Tobi (chapter 501 page 8 ). The Kyuubi actually recognises Tobi and possibly knows who he is. If THAT doesn’t convince you, nothing will. The Kyuubi made a direct transfer from being sealed into Mito to being sealed into Kushina, so there is a fundamental contradiction for the Kyuubi to recognise anyone in the outside world when it was sealed for all that time. If the Kyuubi actually recognised Tobi, it means Tobi has to be someone who was alive during Hashirama/Madara’s generation.
Plothole Number 5: Tobi is too tall (chapter 503 page 9). Tobi was shown to be adult sized when he fought Minato, chapter 503 page 5. But on page 9, Kakashi, Gai, Asuma and Kurenai are all shown to be much shorter as they are going through adolescence. Obito would have been around that size and is therefore too short to be Tobi.
Plothole Number 6: Minato would’ve figured it out (chapter 500-504). If Tobi was really Obito, then Minato would have figured it out when they were fighting each other. Obito was Minato’s own student and would have recognised his chakra, but he didn’t.
Plothole Number 7: This is HIS doing (chapter 560 page 2). "This is HIS doing." That means Madara knows exactly who Tobi is, but there is no way Madara could have worked with Obito because Madara had died already. We know this because by the time Nagato gets Madara's Rinnegan from Tobi, Madara is officially dead - "I awakened these eyes shortly before my death." (chapter 560 page 15). This is important because Nagato is older than Minato, and Minato is older than Obito.
Plothole Number 8: Hashirama Comparison (chapter 462 page 14). Tobi says to Naruto "I can see the first Hokage in you." To make that type of comparison Tobi must have known what Hashirama was like as a person. Problem is, Hashirama was dead before Obito was born.
Plothole Number 9: During Our Battle (chapter 512 page 9). "This is something I grew from living tissue I stole from him during our battle." Kabuto already revealed the Madara coffin so there was no reason for Tobi to keep lying. So if Tobi actually had a fight with Hashirama there is no way he could be Obito.
Plothole Number 10: Too Much Knowledge. It is impossible for Obito to know so much about the bloody history between the Senju clan and the Uchiha clan before Konoha was even established as a shinobi village. Tobi has to be someone from that generation. It is also impossible for Obito to know so much about Rikudou Sennin, his sons, the Bijuu and the Juubi.
THE BIGGEST PLOTHOLE OF THEM ALL.
Plothole Number 11: Nagato is much older than Obito.
Why is this important? Because Tobi GAVE Nagato the Rinnegan. In other words, it is impossible for Obito to have given kid Nagato the Rinnegan because Obito is much younger than Nagato.
i predict that he is izuna kagami ( and father of obito perhaps) or some random new char and if so i predict reactions similar to when amon turned out to be a new char that didin't eppear in the previous seris. if you want someone who did the bad thing that we saw ebfore the bad guy papered watch scooby doo
Plothole Number 1: Tobi’s Power Level (chapters 500-504). There is no way Obito could turn into an alpha dog shinobi who mastered S/T phasing and teleportation within a 1-2 year time frame. At 15 years old? No way... There is also no way Obito would know how to extract the Kyuubi, hypnotize it, control it like a puppet, and then summon it wherever the hell he wants to. And all of this is supposed to have happened 1-2 years after Obito supposedly died? That’s just not feasible.
Plothole Number 2: Personality U-turn (chapter 241 page 19). "Of course those in the ninja world who break the rules and regulations are called trash... but those who don’t care about their companions are even worse than trash." Will of Fire talk from Obito. It makes no sense for. him to suddenly manifest this unwavering vendetta against Konoha unless Tobi is just using Obito’s body as a vessel, in which case, Tobi isn’t really Obito anyway because his soul and spirit have nothing to do with it.
Plothole Number 3: Kushina Quote (chapter 501 page 7). "Do you have ANY idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?" It’s a complete contradiction for Obito to say something like that when, hypothetically, he wouldn’t have been alive long enough to make that type of comment because Obito would have been 15 years old if he fought Minato. Tobi has probably had to wait DECADES for the opportunity to extract the Kyuubi from its host.
Plothole Number 4: Kyuubi recognised Tobi (chapter 501 page 8 ). The Kyuubi actually recognises Tobi and possibly knows who he is. If THAT doesn’t convince you, nothing will. The Kyuubi made a direct transfer from being sealed into Mito to being sealed into Kushina, so there is a fundamental contradiction for the Kyuubi to recognise anyone in the outside world when it was sealed for all that time. If the Kyuubi actually recognised Tobi, it means Tobi has to be someone who was alive during Hashirama/Madara’s generation.
Plothole Number 5: Tobi is too tall (chapter 503 page 9). Tobi was shown to be adult sized when he fought Minato, chapter 503 page 5. But on page 9, Kakashi, Gai, Asuma and Kurenai are all shown to be much shorter as they are going through adolescence. Obito would have been around that size and is therefore too short to be Tobi.
Plothole Number 6: Minato would’ve figured it out (chapter 500-504). If Tobi was really Obito, then Minato would have figured it out when they were fighting each other. Obito was Minato’s own student and would have recognised his chakra, but he didn’t.
Plothole Number 7: This is HIS doing (chapter 560 page 2). "This is HIS doing." That means Madara knows exactly who Tobi is, but there is no way Madara could have worked with Obito because Madara had died already. We know this because by the time Nagato gets Madara's Rinnegan from Tobi, Madara is officially dead - "I awakened these eyes shortly before my death." (chapter 560 page 15). This is important because Nagato is older than Minato, and Minato is older than Obito.
Plothole Number 8: Hashirama Comparison (chapter 462 page 14). Tobi says to Naruto "I can see the first Hokage in you." To make that type of comparison Tobi must have known what Hashirama was like as a person. Problem is, Hashirama was dead before Obito was born.
Plothole Number 9: During Our Battle (chapter 512 page 9). "This is something I grew from living tissue I stole from him during our battle." Kabuto already revealed the Madara coffin so there was no reason for Tobi to keep lying. So if Tobi actually had a fight with Hashirama there is no way he could be Obito.
Plothole Number 10: Too Much Knowledge. It is impossible for Obito to know so much about the bloody history between the Senju clan and the Uchiha clan before Konoha was even established as a shinobi village. Tobi has to be someone from that generation. It is also impossible for Obito to know so much about Rikudou Sennin, his sons, the Bijuu and the Juubi.
THE BIGGEST PLOTHOLE OF THEM ALL.
Plothole Number 11: Nagato is much older than Obito.
Why is this important? Because Tobi GAVE Nagato the Rinnegan. In other words, it is impossible for Obito to have given kid Nagato the Rinnegan because Obito is much younger than Nagato.
i predict that he is izuna kagami ( and father of obito perhaps) or some random new char and if so i predict reactions similar to when amon turned out to be a new char that didin't eppear in the previous seris. if you want someone who did the bad thing that we saw ebfore the bad guy papered watch scooby doo
Hmmm, I'm going to have to attack this at a different angle. Every counter to the Obito theory has a counter.
Before I start, I'd like to paint a better picture. We know that Tobi knows Zetsu, and that Tobi appears to have Zetsu parts in him, most likely even his DNA.
Zetsu abilities- Makes a perfect clone, regenerates body parts, and replenishes chakra, the first is more important here, which I will bring up later.
Plothole Number 1: Tobi’s Power Level (chapters 500-504). There is no way Obito could turn into an alpha dog shinobi who mastered S/T phasing and teleportation within a 1-2 year time frame. At 15 years old? No way... There is also no way Obito would know how to extract the Kyuubi, hypnotize it, control it like a puppet, and then summon it wherever the hell he wants to. And all of this is supposed to have happened 1-2 years after Obito supposedly died? That’s just not feasible.
Plothole Number 2: Personality U-turn (chapter 241 page 19). "Of course those in the ninja world who break the rules and regulations are called trash... but those who don’t care about their companions are even worse than trash." Will of Fire talk from Obito. It makes no sense for. him to suddenly manifest this unwavering vendetta against Konoha unless Tobi is just using Obito’s body as a vessel, in which case, Tobi isn’t really Obito anyway because his soul and spirit have nothing to do with it.
Plothole Number 3: Kushina Quote (chapter 501 page 7). "Do you have ANY idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?" It’s a complete contradiction for Obito to say something like that when, hypothetically, he wouldn’t have been alive long enough to make that type of comment because Obito would have been 15 years old if he fought Minato. Tobi has probably had to wait DECADES for the opportunity to extract the Kyuubi from its host.
Plothole Number 4: Kyuubi recognised Tobi (chapter 501 page 8 ). The Kyuubi actually recognises Tobi and possibly knows who he is. If THAT doesn’t convince you, nothing will. The Kyuubi made a direct transfer from being sealed into Mito to being sealed into Kushina, so there is a fundamental contradiction for the Kyuubi to recognise anyone in the outside world when it was sealed for all that time. If the Kyuubi actually recognised Tobi, it means Tobi has to be someone who was alive during Hashirama/Madara’s generation.
Plothole Number 5: Tobi is too tall (chapter 503 page 9). Tobi was shown to be adult sized when he fought Minato, chapter 503 page 5. But on page 9, Kakashi, Gai, Asuma and Kurenai are all shown to be much shorter as they are going through adolescence. Obito would have been around that size and is therefore too short to be Tobi.
Plothole Number 6: Minato would’ve figured it out (chapter 500-504). If Tobi was really Obito, then Minato would have figured it out when they were fighting each other. Obito was Minato’s own student and would have recognised his chakra, but he didn’t.
Plothole Number 7: This is HIS doing (chapter 560 page 2). "This is HIS doing." That means Madara knows exactly who Tobi is, but there is no way Madara could have worked with Obito because Madara had died already. We know this because by the time Nagato gets Madara's Rinnegan from Tobi, Madara is officially dead - "I awakened these eyes shortly before my death." (chapter 560 page 15). This is important because Nagato is older than Minato, and Minato is older than Obito.
Plothole Number 8: Hashirama Comparison (chapter 462 page 14). Tobi says to Naruto "I can see the first Hokage in you." To make that type of comparison Tobi must have known what Hashirama was like as a person. Problem is, Hashirama was dead before Obito was born.
Plothole Number 9: During Our Battle (chapter 512 page 9). "This is something I grew from living tissue I stole from him during our battle." Kabuto already revealed the Madara coffin so there was no reason for Tobi to keep lying. So if Tobi actually had a fight with Hashirama there is no way he could be Obito.
Plothole Number 10: Too Much Knowledge. It is impossible for Obito to know so much about the bloody history between the Senju clan and the Uchiha clan before Konoha was even established as a shinobi village. Tobi has to be someone from that generation. It is also impossible for Obito to know so much about Rikudou Sennin, his sons, the Bijuu and the Juubi.
THE BIGGEST PLOTHOLE OF THEM ALL.
Plothole Number 11: Nagato is much older than Obito.
Why is this important? Because Tobi GAVE Nagato the Rinnegan. In other words, it is impossible for Obito to have given kid Nagato the Rinnegan because Obito is much younger than Nagato.
i predict that he is izuna kagami ( and father of obito perhaps) or some random new char and if so i predict reactions similar to when amon turned out to be a new char that didin't eppear in the previous seris. if you want someone who did the bad thing that we saw ebfore the bad guy papered watch scooby doo
Lol I've seen this posted around everywhere, but didn't really have the time to address such a long post.
@Plothole #1 That's actually not a plothole, just your own logic. "At 15 years old, really?" Naruto is now 16...
Lol, this is Madara we are talking about, if Madara was his master/sensei, who also knows how to use the sharingan, he could have helped him get to where he's at now. Sasuke with the help of Oro was able to suppress Kurama's chakra. Itachi at 13, was able gain the mangyeko (The eyes said to control the fox).
Kakashi himself, which is ironic, said it quite well.
You must be registered for see images
But Itachi said it best...
You must be registered for see images
"Their reality may all be a mirage."
@Plothole #2 Some of these aren't really plotholes you know, it's just that you yourself can't figure a way to make sense of it. Lol the death of Yahiko drastically changed Nagato, he forgot who he used to be. He gave up on peace. The death of Rin could have changed him. Before he supposedly died, it was made known that he actually loved her, and wanted Kakashi to protect her. Who are you to say it couldn't have changed him?
Nagato's words before he changed.. "If there is such a thing as peace in this world, I'll seize it."
@Plothole number 3, I'd like to go back a bit, if Obito's body is inhabited, whose to his soul/spirit has nothing to do with it? It could be his body with Madara's memories/knowledge, but he may still be fully aware that he's Obito. So having Madara's conscious, that statement still makes sense.
@Plothole #4 If Zetsu is apart of him, and Tobi has the ability to regenerate his body parts, then it really isn't too far fetched to say that Obito can become a perfect clone of Madara, taking on his unique chakra and so on.
@Plothole #5 Now this is really the weakest of all your points, Kakashi wasn't that much shorter than Tobi, and are you really going to argue a few inches?
@Plothole #6 My point about Zetsu being apart of tobi is a possible explanation for this. Also, who says Minato can sense an individuals unique chakra?
@Plothole #7 Again, that statement from Madara is inconclusive, Madara was speaking to Kabuto, he didn't know that Kabuto knew he lived beyond the valley of the end. So that statement can mean anything since he meant for Kabuto to take it as "I awakened these eyes at the valley of the end."
@Plothole #8 As I said before, Obito having all of Madara's memories is a good explanation for this.
@Plothole #9 Same thing as above, not to mention, to say "Madara gave this to me to use" would have been to revealing lol. That's another thing, when statements are made, you guys need to look at it from not only the writer's point of view, but also the person who is speaking.
Also, your plothole is a plothole to your plothole if that makes any sense.
You are implying he should have said something different, but he didn't...he still used "our", so are you saying that it's Madara? If so, it's clear that even though it's "Madara" he behaves much differently from Madara, his attitude is nothing alike. You are implying that it's a person possessing Madara's conscious, but also still is in control of their own spirit. See what I did there?
@Plothole #10 Once again, same thing with Obito having all of Madara's knowledge.
@Plothole #11 There's no proof that Tobi gave Nagato the rinnegan, Tobi as Madara fought Hashi, survived the battle and "gave" Nagato the rinnegan. So...We know for sure that Madara did the first of the two, and even knows Nagato. It's not 100% fact that Tobi gave Nagato the rinnegan, just like it isn't 100% fact that Madara died shortly after giving Nagato the rinnegan.
Now you see...I found ways around this with "theories", and the reason for that is because the manga leaves room for such theories, now imagine the writer, who has everything planned and lots of information withheld. There's no way anyone can 100% disprove the Obito theory, it would go on forever.
It's also important to note that I didn't really add much that actually supports the Obito theory.
Hmmm, I'm going to have to attack this at a different angle. Every counter to the Obito theory has a counter.
Before I start, I'd like to paint a better picture. We know that Tobi knows Zetsu, and that Tobi appears to have Zetsu parts in him, most likely even his DNA.
Zetsu abilities- Makes a perfect clone, regenerates body parts, and replenishes chakra, the first is more important here, which I will bring up later.
Lol I've seen this posted around everywhere, but didn't really have the time to address such a long post.
@Plothole #1 That's actually not a plothole, just your own logic. "At 15 years old, really?" Naruto is now 16...
Lol, this is Madara we are talking about, if Madara was his master/sensei, who also knows how to use the sharingan, he could have helped him get to where he's at now. Sasuke with the help of Oro was able to suppress Kurama's chakra. Itachi at 13, was able gain the mangyeko (The eyes said to control the fox).
Kakashi himself, which is ironic, said it quite well.
You must be registered for see images
But Itachi said it best...
You must be registered for see images
"Their reality may all be a mirage."
@Plothole #2 Some of these aren't really plotholes you know, it's just that you yourself can't figure a way to make sense of it. Lol the death of Yahiko drastically changed Nagato, he forgot who he used to be. He gave up on peace. The death of Rin could have changed him. Before he supposedly died, it was made known that he actually loved her, and wanted Kakashi to protect her. Who are you to say it couldn't have changed him?
Nagato's words before he changed.. "If there is such a thing as peace in this world, I'll seize it."
@Plothole number 3, I'd like to go back a bit, if Obito's body is inhabited, whose to his soul/spirit has nothing to do with it? It could be his body with Madara's memories/knowledge, but he may still be fully aware that he's Obito. So having Madara's conscious, that statement still makes sense.
@Plothole #4 If Zetsu is apart of him, and Tobi has the ability to regenerate his body parts, then it really isn't too far fetched to say that Obito can become a perfect clone of Madara, taking on his unique chakra and so on.
@Plothole #5 Now this is really the weakest of all your points, Kakashi wasn't that much shorter than Tobi, and are you really going to argue a few inches?
@Plothole #6 My point about Zetsu being apart of tobi is a possible explanation for this. Also, who says Minato can sense an individuals unique chakra?
@Plothole #7 Again, that statement from Madara is inconclusive, Madara was speaking to Kabuto, he didn't know that Kabuto knew he lived beyond the valley of the end. So that statement can mean anything since he meant for Kabuto to take it as "I awakened these eyes at the valley of the end."
@Plothole #8 As I said before, Obito having all of Madara's memories is a good explanation for this.
@Plothole #9 Same thing as above, not to mention, to say "Madara gave this to me to use" would have been to revealing lol. That's another thing, when statements are made, you guys need to look at it from not only the writer's point of view, but also the person who is speaking.
Also, your plothole is a plothole to your plothole if that makes any sense.
You are implying he should have said something different, but he didn't...he still used "our", so are you saying that it's Madara? If so, it's clear that even though it's "Madara" he behaves much differently from Madara, his attitude is nothing alike. You are implying that it's a person possessing Madara's conscious, but also still is in control of their own spirit. See what I did there?
@Plothole #10 Once again, same thing with Obito having all of Madara's knowledge.
@Plothole #11 There's no proof that Tobi gave Nagato the rinnegan, Tobi as Madara fought Hashi, survived the battle and "gave" Nagato the rinnegan. So...We know for sure that Madara did the first of the two, and even knows Nagato. It's not 100% fact that Tobi gave Nagato the rinnegan, just like it isn't 100% fact that Madara died shortly after giving Nagato the rinnegan.
Now you see...I found ways around this with "theories", and the reason for that is because the manga leaves room for such theories, now imagine the writer, who has everything planned and lots of information withheld. There's no way anyone can 100% disprove the Obito theory, it would go on forever.
It's also important to note that I didn't really add much that actually supports the Obito theory.
obito should blame himself for rins death who surives boulders crushign them while saying " i wish i could spend more time with rin and kakashi" and doesn't go and do that he put the pressure on kakashi he should ahve came back and done it himself, also itachi sauske and haku were born with talent as you can see obito was nothing without his sharingan even then he sucked without kakashi there to back him up. naruto? nine tails. i can name 5 times in part 1 he woulda died without it
1: haku vs sauske and naruto
sauske dies and naruto can't see haku nor can he move to well without rasengan he can't break those mirrors goes ninetails breaks hakus arm and shatters his mirrrors without it he would have suffered the same fate as sauske.
2: naruto vs shukaku
without it he woulda been dead after his ninja hand book
3: him fallign into a drench\
without the ninetails chakra he wouldn't have been able to summon gamabunta.
4: use of shadow clones
shadow clones are everythign he ahs without the ninetails chakra he wouldn't have teh chakra needed to make thousnads or hundreds of clones
5: chidori to the heart
without nine tails chakra naruto wouldn't have been able to move sauske arm to his lung nor heal the wound.
see itachi sauske and haku all born with talent all good planners and could tell a jutsu without sharingan obito needed sharingan to see the invisible guy, kakashi also born with talent saw him miles away and cut him in time to save obito, see my point? also haku and sauske ( without ms) stood no chance to minato no way would obito only two years later be able to corner his sensei
obito should blame himself for rins death who surives boulders crushign them while saying " i wish i could spend more time with rin and kakashi" and doesn't go and do that he put the pressure on kakashi he should ahve came back and done it himself, also itachi sauske and haku were born with talent as you can see obito was nothing without his sharingan even then he sucked without kakashi there to back him up. naruto? nine tails. i can name 5 times in part 1 he woulda died without it
1: haku vs sauske and naruto
sauske dies and naruto can't see haku nor can he move to well without rasengan he can't break those mirrors goes ninetails breaks hakus arm and shatters his mirrrors without it he would have suffered the same fate as sauske.
2: naruto vs shukaku
without it he woulda been dead after his ninja hand book
3: him fallign into a drench\
without the ninetails chakra he wouldn't have been able to summon gamabunta.
4: use of shadow clones
shadow clones are everythign he ahs without the ninetails chakra he wouldn't have teh chakra needed to make thousnads or hundreds of clones
5: chidori to the heart
without nine tails chakra naruto wouldn't have been able to move sauske arm to his lung nor heal the wound.
see itachi sauske and haku all born with talent all good planners and could tell a jutsu without sharingan obito needed sharingan to see the invisible guy, kakashi also born with talent saw him miles away and cut him in time to save obito, see my point? also haku and sauske ( without ms) stood no chance to minato no way would obito only two years later be able to corner his sensei
Lol that's what YOU say he should have done, that may not be what Kishi actually wrote.
The majority of your post is based around disproving Nauro's skill, but that's where you've made your mistake and kinda buried yourself.
Jiraiya was amazed at Naruto's ability to learn the Rasengan as fast as he did, he even went and surpassed Minato. Not only that, but look at the skill at which he can use SM mode, the fox is actually a hindrance to this ability. At 16, He defeated most of the six paths of pain, albeit with intel, it's still a noteworthy feat. Especially considering how he was just 3 years ago(Something Jiraiya couldn't do).
And you're missing the point, my point was to show that little kids can be powerful enough to perform such tasks, which was directed at the "15 years old, really?".
And you bring up something interesting, Sasuke was born with natural talent, yet even Zetsu said that "Naruto may have surpassed you." This was mainly because of his proficiency with Sage Mode. He went in after the death of Jiraiya, could barely beat Hakuzu, and came out to take down multiple pains! This wasn't even a year, from my understanding, not even a week! Lol.
Also, Naruto and Sasuke have been surpassing each other, despite Sasuke being born with "natural talent", Naruto makes up for it through "hard work".
So you see, in the end...it's complete nonsense to think Obito couldn't have progressed that much in 1-2 years time.
EDIT: Also, the fox has nothing to do with his being able to create thousands of clones...
1. "Obito tries to use a fire element technique, not enough chakra"
The Boulder takes the turn.
2. "Boulders laughs and gives the turn back to Obito so he a chance to actually do something"
3. "Obito throws a kunai, hits the Boulder, 1 damage inflicted"
999999999 health points left, Obito is being given an other extra turn.
4. "Uses some taijutsu on Boulder, breaks his own bones in the process"
5. "Obito is being defeated by the Boulder, it emerges victorious"
The Boulder makes a tablet with Obito's face being crossed out and a little text under it as it says: FODDER
Obito somehow survives the encounter, takes on the alias of Tobi, inverts a plan regarding the Moon (that's actually a father of the boulder by whom he had been defeated) takes the parent hostage.
The plan fails, the moon falls apart and hits Obito/Tobito's retarded head.
Strange, i've seen in on a website at the end of 598 - Into Pieces !!!
If it's fan made, i say the ones who put it there are real jerks...it's very confusing...since that clearly is Obito removed from under the boulder
Lol that's what YOU say he should have done, that may not be what Kishi actually wrote.
The majority of your post is based around disproving Nauro's skill, but that's where you've made your mistake and kinda buried yourself.
Jiraiya was amazed at Naruto's ability to learn the Rasengan as fast as he did, he even went and surpassed Minato. Not only that, but look at the skill at which he can use SM mode, the fox is actually a hindrance to this ability. At 16, He defeated most of the six paths of pain, albeit with intel, it's still a noteworthy feat. Especially considering how he was just 3 years ago(Something Jiraiya couldn't do).
And you're missing the point, my point was to show that little kids can be powerful enough to perform such tasks, which was directed at the "15 years old, really?".
And you bring up something interesting, Sasuke was born with natural talent, yet even Zetsu said that "Naruto may have surpassed you." This was mainly because of his proficiency with Sage Mode. He went in after the death of Jiraiya, could barely beat Hakuzu, and came out to take down multiple pains! This wasn't even a year, from my understanding, not even a week! Lol.
Also, Naruto and Sasuke have been surpassing each other, despite Sasuke being born with "natural talent", Naruto makes up for it through "hard work".
So you see, in the end...it's complete nonsense to think Obito couldn't have progressed that much in 1-2 years time.
EDIT: Also, the fox has nothing to do with his being able to create thousands of clones...
no naruto had a gift not talent his gift to never give up helped him ahive those things but without the ninetails that hard work would have been useless at first just like with out the sharingan i doubt the uchihas would have been number 1. obito had nothing but sharingan and no ms no way he lived.
and one more thing who leaves tehir best friends body in the middle of a battle field kakashi surly went back for obitos body probably to late as tobi got his right eye
