So hiruzen was

[Waltz]

So basically the manga is saying that

Muu > Onooki
3rd Mizukage > Mei
3rd Raikage > A
4th kakzekage < Gaara

And Hiruzen in his good days could've beaten either of these generation's of kages?

So he had Counter's for
jinton?
3rd raikage's 3 finger attack and defense - and Tailed beast worth of chakra?
Joki boy?
Gold Sand?

Do you think Kishi is over-rating him?

 

[Migualon J.J.]

how can Kishi overrate him? he would just give him some BA ability to win

 

[ITACHIUCHIA101]

yeah i dont think he was as good as the manga said

 

[Prime Rib]

prime hiruzen is said to be the strongest kage the leaf village has ever had, and that before hiruzen died, he was still the strongest out of all the 5 kages

 

[Father of Life]

He had no kekei Gekei or Tail Beast or doujutsu

But he was strong , idk tho

 

[Out Of Ctrl]

Maybe those three cowered in fear, despite their impressive abilities, whenever they heard Hiruzen Sarutobi is in the battlefield? There are thousands of jutsu's Hiruzen knew and surely one of them could've been a counter. Who knows?

 

[Waltz]

how can Kishi overrate him? he would just give him some BA ability to win

feat's just dont match up. What BA ability could that be? Not even EMS sasuke, Itachi, Nor BM Naruto could take these guys down without going to High diff.

 

[Joon]

His information was reference from two places: Naruto Manga and Data book. He was never "Hyped." Translation of "free" Manga is also mistranslated and completely misunderstood or comprehended by readers.

 

[Reborn]

So basically the manga is saying that

Muu > Onooki
3rd Mizukage > Mei
3rd Raikage > A
4th kakzekage < Gaara

And Hiruzen in his good days could've beaten either of these generation's of kages?

So he had Counter's for
jinton?
3rd raikage's 3 finger attack and defense - and Tailed beast worth of chakra?
Joki boy?
Gold Sand?

Do you think Kishi is over-rating him?

No, Kishi isn't overrating Hiruzen, he's given a lot of context that refutes what he previous said through Iruka. It is the fans that continue to say Hiruzen was the strongest because Kishi said it years ago and put it in a databook. However now the recent databook doesn't outright say it anymore for obvious reasons. Kishi has indirectly refuted a lot of these points through the development of several character's skill sets from the previous generations. However many still hold what was once said as concrete fact, which is ironic since that concrete fact has no evidence to support it.

 

[thegame]

I will only partly agree, Sarutobi took down tobirama and hashirama and ½ orochimaru... None beats that...

 

[Waltz]

His information was reference from two places: Naruto Manga and Data book. He was never "Hyped." Translation of "free" Manga is also mistranslated and completely misunderstood or comprehended by readers.

The what was he? I would believe that kishi wrote what iruka said without much concern.

No, Kishi isn't overrating Hiruzen, he's given a lot of context that refutes what he previous said through Iruka. It is the fans that continue to say Hiruzen was the strongest because Kishi said it years ago and put it in a databook. However now the recent databook doesn't outright say it anymore for obvious reasons. Kishi has indirectly refuted a lot of these points through the development of several character's skill sets from the previous generations. However many still hold what was once said as concrete fact, which is ironic since that concrete fact has no evidence to support it.

It was a simple change of mind then...or kishi wasn't really paying much attention to what he said back then, still not knowing that today it would start flame wars.

 

[Blaze Release]

People need to remember that Hiruzen came out of retirement to resume his role as kage. During this time, i believe he decided to enjoy his retirement and not stress so much about being a ninja and live the rest of his life in peace. The current kages especially onoki whom majority who disagree with Hiruzen's hype claim to be in much better shape than hiruzen, have been leaders of their village and are still are. They havent let themselves go so to speak. Even when Hiruzen was brought back out of retirement, he certainly didnt do two bad against orochimaru and 2 previous hokage's, though yes i agree the hokages werent at their strongest, but the same can be said about hiruzen. In the scenario that old hiruzen was in, i can see quiet alot of high level shinobi's doing worse than what he did

 

[narutownsyouall]

I still think Hiruzen in his Prime was on another level.

 

[Joon]

No, Kishi isn't overrating Hiruzen, he's given a lot of context that refutes what he previous said through Iruka. It is the fans that continue to say Hiruzen was the strongest because Kishi said it years ago and put it in a databook. However now the recent databook doesn't outright say it anymore for obvious reasons. Kishi has indirectly refuted a lot of these points through the development of several character's skill sets from the previous generations. However many still hold what was once said as concrete fact, which is ironic since that concrete fact has no evidence to support it.

Viz. Translation: "The Third Hokage was a Genius who was nickname the Professor... And it's said that he possessed superlative strength, even compared to the other Hokage." ~ Iruka

Viz. Translation: "Blah Blah... Orochimaru knew what he got himself into... Blah Blah... We took on the Hokage fully knowing his reputation as the strongest leader of the five principal territories." ~ Kabuto

I understand the my evidence is a secondary source - are those sources which are the analysis or are based on the primary information, but it still holds fact (I'm to lazy to place pics or links). The latter is evidence from the Manga. Hurizen Sarutobi nickname "God of Shinobi" was stated in the first data book of Naruto. I have no evidence to support the latter, like you said.

Then what was he? I would believe that kishi wrote what iruka said without much concern.

It was a simple change of mind then...or kishi wasn't really paying much attention to what he said back then, still not knowing that today it would start flame wars.

Above. It was stated by Kabuto, "There Aren't Ninjas On The Same Level of The First Hokage Hashirama Senju Anymore..." [1] Who were other ninjas of his Generation? Madara, Tobimaru, Izuna, etc. Their generation were constant strive of Wars and Battles. Their is reason why their strength can't be compared to the current generation. However, Iruka compared Hurizen Sarutobi to the "other" Hokage.

1.

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[jaykuhz]

We have to see some evidence haha maybe a chapter of Hiruzen in his prime

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Post #14 is complete BS btw all those quotes are completely wrong. It said he was know not he is also kabuto also said he was know not he was.
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I still think Hiruzen in his Prime was on another level.

This, I seriously think prime hiruzen may have been one of the best shinobi's around. You can see kishi put some of his inspiration of DBZ into hiruzen and kishi would never make the hokage weak compared to the other kages of his generation it's the main characters home village hokages are always strong and most of the time the strongest of all the kages.

From what hiruzen did against oro weak edo hashi and weak edo tobirama; going up against the 3 off them at this level already he was already deadly.

 

[Rot]

He was called God of Shinobi..he knew 1000's of jutsu, was capable in hand to hand, used Enema the Monkey King as a summon..and was old

Hiruzen in prime was probably insanely powerful and alot of peeps kept saying "If Madara lived why didn't he attack the village after 1st and 2nd died ?" Because Sarutobi probably..we only saw him as an old man..I am positive that is the reason Madara didn't make a move after the first and second died off (Madara was alive up until Nagato's time since he knew who Nagato was)

 

[Reborn]

The what was he? I would believe that kishi wrote what iruka said without much concern.

It was a simple change of mind then...or kishi wasn't really paying much attention to what he said back then, still not knowing that today it would start flame wars.

It's happened before. With as series of this magnitude, there are bound to be some inconsistancies or changes of heart. When it was said that Hiruzen was thought to be the strongest Hokage of all, it was through Iruka and I'm not sure what the databooks said about Hiruzen in those regards but it's whatever. For the reason I believe it was even considered to be so in that case was the whole Generation B surpasses Generation A. Successors become greater than predicessors.

However now, we see that inconsistancy dropped in some cases for the sake of showing the power of the Kage prior to the current ones and give them some sort of legendary status. I don't think many would consider A to be stronger than his father, nor Mei to be stronger than her predicessors the Second Mizukage or the Perfect Jinchuuriki Fourth Mizukage. Need I say anything about Tsunade being greater than any of her predicessors?

However all contribute highly to their village, though Tsunade may not have been the strongest of the Hokage, what she did when Pein obliterated the village; completely regenerate anybody who would've otherwised died from the blast, was very significant and something only capable of somebody who possesses Kage worthy abilities.

Anyway to stay on point, in refrance to the strongest, in, what I think is meant to be the best in terms of combat, Kishi has shown on many occasions the abilities of all the previous Hokage and arguablly, some of hte other Kage in other villages, to be stronger than Hiruzen. And my rationalization is; if Hiruzen was to remain significant as the strongest baring Hokage of his time, Kishi would've expanded on that fact. However he hasn't, he's done so with other Kage and the reason is; Hiruzen no longer is relivant to the story and therefore his character need not be expanded upon.

Hashirama, Tobirama (to some extent), and Minato have had much bigger roles than Hiruzen and therefore were expanded upon and they needed to be shown more. Hiruzen's relivance back in part 1, in my opinions, was only to emphasize the power of the Kage. Konoha being the only village we truely see until part 2, we could only see the potential of 1 kage. Kishi hyped the power for that reason however now there is no reason to hype the Kage anymore since people have the idea, now it's a matter of just showing the Kage in combat for the puprose of how it currently translates to the story.

People need to remember that Hiruzen came out of retirement to resume his role as kage. During this time, i believe he decided to enjoy his retirement and not stress so much about being a ninja and live the rest of his life in peace. The current kages especially onoki whom majority who disagree with Hiruzen's hype claim to be in much better shape than hiruzen, have been leaders of their village and are still are. They havent let themselves go so to speak. Even when Hiruzen was brought back out of retirement, he certainly didnt do two bad against orochimaru and 2 previous hokage's, though yes i agree the hokages werent at their strongest, but the same can be said about hiruzen. In the scenario that old hiruzen was in, i can see quiet alot of high level shinobi's doing worse than what he did

Even so, what baring does it have as to how Hiruzen was in the past or still being (during his time alive) the strongest Kage of his generation?

 

[UnrealSoul]

People need to remember that Hiruzen came out of retirement to resume his role as kage. During this time, i believe he decided to enjoy his retirement and not stress so much about being a ninja and live the rest of his life in peace. The current kages especially onoki whom majority who disagree with Hiruzen's hype claim to be in much better shape than hiruzen, have been leaders of their village and are still are. They havent let themselves go so to speak. Even when Hiruzen was brought back out of retirement, he certainly didnt do two bad against orochimaru and 2 previous hokage's, though yes i agree the hokages werent at their strongest, but the same can be said about hiruzen. In the scenario that old hiruzen was in, i can see quiet alot of high level shinobi's doing worse than what he did

Finally the truth...

 

[Reborn]

Viz. Translation: "The Third Hokage was a Genius who was nickname the Professor... And it's said that he possessed superlative strength, even compared to the other Hokage." ~ Iruka

Viz. Translation: "Blah Blah... Orochimaru knew what he got himself into... Blah Blah... We took on the Hokage fully knowing his reputation as the strongest leader of the five principal territories." ~ Kabuto

I understand the my evidence is a secondary source - are those sources which are the analysis or are based on the primary information, but it still holds fact (I'm to lazy to place pics or links). The latter is evidence from the Manga. Hurizen Sarutobi nickname "God of Shinobi" was stated in the first data book of Naruto. I have no evidence to support the latter, like you said.



Above. It was stated by Kabuto, "There Aren't Ninjas On The Same Level of The First Hokage Hashirama Senju Anymore..." [1] Who were other ninjas of his Generation? Madara, Tobimaru, Izuna, etc. Their generation were constant strive of Wars and Battles. Their is reason why their strength can't be compared to the current generation. However, Iruka compared Hurizen Sarutobi to the "other" Hokage.

1.

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But here's the thing, everything about Hiruzen is just hype without fact. Kabuto also called Hashirama's power that of a fairtail, as in something that isn't really believable and soemthing about him being the strongest shinobi after the Sage. I'm not sure if I'm remembering right or if the translation was correct. There's something that's really pressing, a lot of the Japanese language can't be translated 100% into the English language so there's probably severl different translations which try to give a baring on what is really meant to be said. It's taken too literal sometimes but mainly it should be taken as a general area of what is trying to be said.

Anyway, we hear hype and now we generally get feats to back it up. With Hashirama, although it's an indirect feat comparison; Madara's use of Mokuton can be translated into how Hashirama's used to be in a scale of power. Then you have Madara's hype over Hashirama has been seen partially, and implicated through flashbacks. Madara acts as a primary source although he can be subject to some level of exageration but when you look at it, the powers that have been demonstrated by Madara minus the Rinningan are assumed to have been had when he last fought Hashirama. And if Hashirama was able to sustain combat with him, let alone win, implies Hashi's strength to some degree although still vague. Though vague it's still more than fights Hiruzen has been shown in. We've only seen the Third fight once unfortunately. However there are no real other implications other than the hype. There's no battle stories seen through the eyes previous enemies as a primary or even history text as a secondary to give further implcations to his power.

This, and for reasons I've stated about relivance, is why I'm skeptical to Hiruzen being strong enough either past nor present (during part 1) to be considered the strongest Hokage.