Do you believe in God?

[Chakra Wizard]

1. how do you know that god is "more likely" to exist in another dimension?



I do not understand what you are trying to get at.

You say a creator is unfathomable, if one exists...
It's a contradiction.



1. I've missed what you addressed. That or you've missed what I addressed.

If it was "I would think that if such a God did exist, he would never force us into this world. If anything, we would have done it ourselves. "

I've said "This all powerful, all knowing God must know that we would impose this 'suffering' on ourselves. Why would this God create us in such a way? Isn't God all powerful?"

2. Some people do not impose pain on themselves...

Is having an arm mutilated part of a life experience? Is being paralyzed as a result of a drunk driver part of a life experience? Is being raped part of a life experience?

I'm confused as to what you are arguing for. Is it that I should consider the probability of a creator god existing?



I have a problem with that statement.

A deity, or creator, which we cannot attribute characteristic to other than the fact that they have power capable of creating the universe, sounds more reasonable that unlikely.

Why the double standard? We cannot know this God, however we can know that this God created the universe?

Why can a God simply be, but not the universe?

Why does everything need to be "created"?

I hold the possibility of a creator God as high as that of a unicorn, or goblins, or gnomes, or orcs, or ice trolls or kakashi.

Simply because the lack of evidence.

What is the difference between non-existent and unfathomable?

I didn't want to jump back in on this cause I'm sick of arguing with you, but I have point these out. I'll start from the bottom.

3) In other words, what's the difference between unreal and unbelievable. It's simple, non-existent just is what it is. Unfathomable is something of such a paradox nature that people have a hard time understanding how it could possibly be true. If religious people are right and God exists, he'd have to be of such immeasurable nature that there are sure to be people who find his existence an impossibility.

2) You claim to follow fact, so you must follow science. Then you must know matter's single undetestable law, which is that it can neither be created nor destroyed, merely change form. If that's true, then how could the universe be constantly expanding? I'm sure even dark matter follows this law, so something beyond the laws of science would have to be present to create this new matter. Whether it's God or something else, that will always be up to debate.

1) The reason people are arguing with you is because you're currently the rudest person on this thread. I don't care what your definition of criticism is. People use it on others to help them build on their progress, using both positive and negative feedback. You've given absolutely no even somewhat positive remarks about religion, not even something along the lines of the sixth commandant saying not to commit murder. Completely negative criticism could only possibly be regarded by those receiving it as insult, which is why most of the people you reply to or who reply to your posts can't stand you, including myself.

 

[Shinobi Train]

I didn't want to jump back in on this cause I'm sick of arguing with you, but I have point these out. I'll start from the bottom.

Wizard, you make good points, but take your own advice and drop out of this discussion...I have.

Do, or do not, there is no try. Either you believe, or you don't. U_U I have yet to see an atheist convert. I've heard of some doing so after witnessing miracles or having close encounters with death, but that's about all that will change one's mind. xd

 

[Chakra Wizard]

Wizard, you make good points, but take your own advice and drop out of this discussion...I have.

Do, or do not, there is no try. Either you believe, or you don't. U_U I have yet to see an atheist convert. I've heard of some doing so after witnessing miracles or having close encounters with death, but that's about all that will change one's mind. xd

Well then, I guess there's only one option:mugi: xdI know, man. I just saw that and had to jump in one more time.

And I'm not trying to convert anyone, man. I'm just trying to give him a legitimate reason as to why I myself have faith. I don't care what he thinks, though he should still keep most of it to himself.

 

[Dinosaurodon]

Yes i believe in god but not the Judeo-Christian god. Why? because I am a Sikh

 

[DimLord Urza]

1. how do you know that god is "more likely" to exist in another dimension?



I do not understand what you are trying to get at.

You say a creator is unfathomable, if one exists...
It's a contradiction.



1. I've missed what you addressed. That or you've missed what I addressed.

If it was "I would think that if such a God did exist, he would never force us into this world. If anything, we would have done it ourselves. "

I've said "This all powerful, all knowing God must know that we would impose this 'suffering' on ourselves. Why would this God create us in such a way? Isn't God all powerful?"

2. Some people do not impose pain on themselves...

Is having an arm mutilated part of a life experience? Is being paralyzed as a result of a drunk driver part of a life experience? Is being raped part of a life experience?

I'm confused as to what you are arguing for. Is it that I should consider the probability of a creator god existing?



I have a problem with that statement.

A deity, or creator, which we cannot attribute characteristic to other than the fact that they have power capable of creating the universe, sounds more reasonable that unlikely.

Why the double standard? We cannot know this God, however we can know that this God created the universe?

Why can a God simply be, but not the universe?

Why does everything need to be "created"?

I hold the possibility of a creator God as high as that of a unicorn, or goblins, or gnomes, or orcs, or ice trolls or kakashi.

Simply because the lack of evidence.

What is the difference between non-existent and unfathomable?

1. "How do you know that god is "more likely" to exist in another dimension?"
I'll put it this way - If you open a closet, which contains no shoes, you are certain that there are no shoes in that closet. It is a fact. Let's say I close the closet door. You cannot see the outside of that door. Knowing that there are no shoes where you are inside the closet, it is obviously more likely that the shoes are outside the door then inside the closet since you are certain they are not inside the closet. You are not sure they are outside the closet, but it is certainly more possible then being inside the closet which you know for a fact that they aren't.
It is more likely a God exists in another dimension since we are near certain he doesn't exist in physical reality. There is no evidence for him existing in our physical reality.

2. When I say unfathomable, I simply mean we cannot attribute him with petty characteristics since we have no idea about him. I have no idea about him. I don't know if he exists. I'm merely speculating like I said. It is a possibility the universe was created by an external source such as a deity. Is that improbable? I wouldn't say so, do you really think there is only one reality?

3.""If it was "I would think that if such a God did exist, he would never force us into this world. If anything, we would have done it ourselves. "

I've said "This all powerful, all knowing God must know that we would impose this 'suffering' on ourselves. Why would this God create us in such a way? Isn't God all powerful?""
All I can attribute to God is that he has the power to create. That is it. I can't attribute anything else to him. I like to think of God as a force of creation. Not a person. Not an animal. I wouldn't say he's all powerful, because I don't feel that God has a consciousness. I look to it as a force just like gravity. In short though, I can't answer your question because I honestly don't know.

4. "2. Some people do not impose pain on themselves...

Is having an arm mutilated part of a life experience? Is being paralyzed as a result of a drunk driver part of a life experience? Is being raped part of a life experience?

I'm confused as to what you are arguing for. Is it that I should consider the probability of a creator god existing? "

5. Those forms of suffering are all obviously terrible and tragic. I do believe they may be a life experience. Whatever you want to call the external part of that person, a soul, a spirit, or whatever, is incredibly strong.
I'm assuming you are an atheist. I think that is perfectly fine. Operating with rational thinking is something we need more of. In fact, I'd probably be like you if it wasn't for my experiences. All I can offer for you is subjective evidence, which obviously isn't enough. I am arguing for you to accept the possibility of God. You may compare it to unicorns and goblins existing, but to me these things existing par on a completely different level than a creator existing in a different dimension. However, goblins and unicorns may certainly exist in another dimension. ~LOL

6."I have a problem with that statement.

A deity, or creator, which we cannot attribute characteristic to other than the fact that they have power capable of creating the universe, sounds more reasonable that unlikely.

Why the double standard? We cannot know this God, however we can know that this God created the universe?

Why can a God simply be, but not the universe?

Why does everything need to be "created"?"

We don't know that God created the universe, but it is a possibility that should be considered. We cannot know this God as in: We cannot attribute him physical characteristics since he does not exist in the physical world. Creating a physical world such as the universe isn't attributing him with a characteristic, besides the power to create which we simply cannot investigate.
The universe is physical, and thus follows a physical law. All things are derived from something else. Animals reproduce to continue their species. God is something from another dimension, and thus, does not follow physical law. This is my speculation.
Everything doesn't need to be "Created", "Derived" is a word I would use. But I'm not a cosmologist, nor a physicist. I don't have a profession that would amplify my knowledge on these things. I'm merely giving you a possibility to consider. I don't like to think that a God doesn't exist, because it closes the possibilities. Is it wrong to say that we simply don't know?

Again, my experiences go against disbelieving in a God. I'm not a Christian, or anything like that. Those ridiculous organizations that attribute God with characteristics are laughable. I'm an agnostic deist if anything.

 

[toothpaste]

In other words, what's the difference between unreal and unbelievable. It's simple, non-existent just is what it is.1. Unfathomable is something of such a paradox nature that people have a hard time understanding how it could possibly be true. 2. If religious people are right and God exists, he'd have to be of such immeasurable nature that there are sure to be people who find his existence an impossibility.

1. If one cannot understand something (unfathomable), how can one possibly assume it exist, especially when there is no evidence?

2. You must believe in it. Otherwise you "perish."
However, the first word in that sentence is "If."

You claim to follow fact, so you must follow science. Then you must know matter's single undetestable law, which is that it can neither be created nor destroyed, merely change form. If that's true, then how could the universe be constantly expanding? I'm sure even dark matter follows this law, so something beyond the laws of science would have to be present to create this new matter. Whether it's God or something else, that will always be up to debate.

If the universe is infinitely big, then the answer is simply that it isn't expanding into anything; instead, what is happening is that every region of the universe, every distance between every pair of galaxies, is being "stretched", but the overall size of the universe was infinitely big to begin with and continues to remain infinitely big as time goes on, so the universe's size doesn't change, and therefore it doesn't expand into anything. . If, on the other hand, the universe has a finite size, then it may be legitimate to claim that there is something "outside of the universe" that the universe is expanding into. However, because we are, by definition, stuck within the space that makes up our universe and have no way to observe anything outside of it, this ceases to be a question that can be answered scientifically. So the answer in that case is that we really don't know what, if anything, the universe is expanding into.
-http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=274

The reason people are arguing with you is because you're currently the rudest person on this thread. I don't care what your definition of criticism is. People use it on others to help them build on their progress, using both positive and negative feedback. 1. You've given absolutely no even somewhat positive remarks about religion, not even something along the lines of the sixth commandant saying not to commit murder. 2. Completely negative criticism could only possibly be regarded by those receiving it as insult, which is why most of the people you reply to or who reply to your posts can't stand you, including myself.

One might question why slavery, rape, genocide are not mentioned in the commandments.

Do you know what happens after Moses received those commandments?

Moses calls to his Levite faction and says -
Thus saith the lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. - Exodus 32:27–28

1. Did you need a "God" to tell you murder is bad?

The amount of good is little compared to the amount of bad religion has done.

2. If you view my criticisms "negatively," that is not my problem.

How can one "positively" criticize something that is wrong? I'm being blunt and straightforward.

You have not yet answered my question.

Do you detest everyone except Jesus?
Luke 14:26

 

[Chakra Wizard]

1. If one cannot understand something (unfathomable), how can one possibly assume it exist, especially when there is no evidence?

2. You must believe in it. Otherwise you "perish."
However, the first word in that sentence is "If."



If the universe is infinitely big, then the answer is simply that it isn't expanding into anything; instead, what is happening is that every region of the universe, every distance between every pair of galaxies, is being "stretched", but the overall size of the universe was infinitely big to begin with and continues to remain infinitely big as time goes on, so the universe's size doesn't change, and therefore it doesn't expand into anything. . If, on the other hand, the universe has a finite size, then it may be legitimate to claim that there is something "outside of the universe" that the universe is expanding into. However, because we are, by definition, stuck within the space that makes up our universe and have no way to observe anything outside of it, this ceases to be a question that can be answered scientifically. So the answer in that case is that we really don't know what, if anything, the universe is expanding into.
-http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=274



One might question why slavery, rape, genocide are not mentioned in the commandments.

Do you know what happens after Moses received those commandments?

Moses calls to his Levite faction and says -
Thus saith the lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. - Exodus 32:27–28

1. Did you need a "God" to tell you murder is bad?

The amount of good is little compared to the amount of bad religion has done.

2. If you view my criticisms "negatively," that is not my problem.

How can one "positively" criticize something that is wrong? I'm being blunt and straightforward.

You have not yet answered my question.

Do you detest everyone except Jesus?
Luke 14:26

I said my piece on the rest and won't comment further (I can't believe I'm commenting still), but I suppose I'll answer that question since you want to know so badly.

If that question is a test of my faith, I've already said before that I'm a terrible Christian. I follow science, I find it fascinating. I lie daily, I covet material things, and I obviously don't detest everyone except Jesus, nor does any other Christian. If that was the case, then why make "Honor thy mother and thy father" his eighth commandment if only then to cast them aside? He said only to put him above all else, not push all else down beneath him, and yes, there is a difference. I don't expect you to understand my beliefs, only to respect them as my own.

Edit: And for someone who detests the idea of God so much, not once have you mentioned the devil.

 

[kellzfresh]

Not contradicting what anyone believes but GOD exists due to some reasons
In the bible, mattew chapter 24
1. Bible predicted there will be gays in future
2. Bible predicted there will be numerous sicknesses(sars, h1n1, HIV, aids, swine flu, malaria and the list goes on) new sickness every day
3. Bible predicted there will be increase in natural disasters ( earthquakes, horricanes, tornadoes, storms, flooding, tsunami)
4. Bible predicted there will be false prophets (too many fake churches)
5. The calender year began after Jesus death (2012 AD) (AD = after death)
6. Who created humans? Scientists? Please someone should give me a call when scientists start making humans (not robots) with all their numerous theories on how we were formed :sy:

 

[ZK]

Not contradicting what anyone believes but GOD exists due to some reasons
In the bible, mattew chapter 24
1. Bible predicted there will be gays in future
2. Bible predicted there will be numerous sicknesses(sars, h1n1, HIV, aids, swine flu, malaria and the list goes on) new sickness every day
3. Bible predicted there will be increase in natural disasters ( earthquakes, horricanes, tornadoes, storms, flooding, tsunami)
4. Bible predicted there will be false prophets (too many fake churches)
5. The calender year began after Jesus death (2012 AD) (AD = after death)
6. Who created humans? Scientists? Please someone should give me a call when scientists start making humans (not robots) with all their numerous theories on how we were formed :sy:

Not contradicting what anyone believes, but you don't know what you're talking about.
Predictions? Please. Vague interpretations at best.
The end of the world has been predicted hundreds of times and one day one of those predictions will become true, but how does that make the predictor anything more than a fraud?
Homosexuality existed (and was generally more accepted) during Jesus' time, during Moses' time and way before any of the two were born.
Sicknesses existed (and killed more people) during Jesus' time, during Moses' time and way before any of the two were born. New diseases constantly appeared and old ones reappeared. Plague, for example, kept coming.
Natural disasters existed (and were much more dangerous) during Jesus' time, during Moses' time and way before any of the two were born. Where modern constructions can take a lot of damage before collapsing, fields and constructions in the past were extremely vulnerable to the wrath of nature. Especially the agriculture.
False prophets existed (and plagiarized more) during Jesus' time, during Moses' time and way before any of the two were born. You'll note that during Jesus' time it was very 'hip' to come up with your own religion. Hundreds of cults appeared, ravaged and died again in the span of a few years. The prophets simply used the traditions and Gods of their crowd and changed the names; it made it easier for the plebeians to accept the new, 'correct' religion.
5 and 6 are retarded. The calender? Have you ever heard about the Muslim calender or the Chinese calender? And scientists what? What? Seriously?

 

[kellzfresh]

Do you know what happens after Moses received those commandments?

Moses calls to his Levite faction and says -
Thus saith the lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. - Exodus 32:27–28

1. Did you need a "God" to tell you murder is bad?

The amount of good is little compared to the amount of bad religion has done.


Luke 14:26

In exodus 32 from verse 1 to 26, the children of israel were worshippin other gods. That was the number 1 sin of the bible, and in the old testament if you sin, the punishment comes to you.
The difference is Jesus came to die for our sins and it is not so anymore.
If you sin now, there is no immediate punishment because Jesus has taken the punishment already.

 

[ZK]

In exodus 32 from verse 1 to 26, the children of israel were worshippin other gods. That was the number 1 sin of the bible, and in the old testament if you sin, the punishment comes to you.
The difference is Jesus came to die for our sins and it is not so anymore.
If you sin now, there is no immediate punishment because Jesus has taken the punishment already.

There is no immediate punishment in Islam or Judaism either, so what did Jesus achieve again?
You're still gonna 'burn in hell' or 'ascend to heaven' when you die.

 

[kellzfresh]

Not contradicting what anyone believes, but you don't know what you're talking about.
Predictions? Please. Vague interpretations at best.
The end of the world has been predicted hundreds of times and one day one of those predictions will become true, but how does that make the predictor anything more than a fraud?
Homosexuality existed (and was generally more accepted) during Jesus' time, during Moses' time and way before any of the two were born.
Sicknesses existed (and killed more people) during Jesus' time, during Moses' time and way before any of the two were born. New diseases constantly appeared and old ones reappeared. Plague, for example, kept coming.
Natural disasters existed (and were much more dangerous) during Jesus' time, during Moses' time and way before any of the two were born. Where modern constructions can take a lot of damage before collapsing, fields and constructions in the past were extremely vulnerable to the wrath of nature. Especially the agriculture.
False prophets existed (and plagiarized more) during Jesus' time, during Moses' time and way before any of the two were born. You'll note that during Jesus' time it was very 'hip' to come up with your own religion. Hundreds of cults appeared, ravaged and died again in the span of a few years. The prophets simply used the traditions and Gods of their crowd and changed the names; it made it easier for the plebeians to accept the new, 'correct' religion.
5 and 6 are retarded. The calender? Have you ever heard about the Muslim calender or the Chinese calender? And scientists what? What? Seriously?

1. I never said it was the end of the world prediction, I said it was a prediction that has happened
2. Homosexuallity existed, but is rampant now
3. Sicknesses are formed like air these days another new one was formed in japan recently (there are a thousand times more sickness than they were before)
4. Natural disasters were increased rapidly from 2003 till now (check the stats online it is definately a million times more than jesus time)
5. False prophets about the bible is what I mean
6. Yeah which calender does 95% of the world use. Check ur sources, 2012 is actually 2012AD (after death of jesus)
7. Some people believe in scientists who say the world is created by reactions(blah blah) and humans are formed. I would like them to create a living human or another world from their theory and then give me a call.

 

[toothpaste]

1. "How do you know that god is "more likely" to exist in another dimension?"

I'll put it this way - If you open a closet, which contains no shoes, you are certain that there are no shoes in that closet. It is a fact. Let's say I close the closet door. You cannot see the outside of that door. Knowing that there are no shoes where you are inside the closet, it is obviously more likely that the shoes are outside the door then inside the closet since you are certain they are not inside the closet. You are not sure they are outside the closet, but it is certainly more possible then being inside the closet which you know for a fact that they aren't.
It is more likely a God exists in another dimension since we are near certain he doesn't exist in physical reality. There is no evidence for him existing in our physical reality.

There is a fallacy here.

We know(in this example)the shoes exist(for a fact). We do not know God exists.

Nor is he anymore "likely" to exist in another dimension. Simply because of God's absence in the "physical reality," this does not therefore mean that he is "likely" to reside outside of it.

When I say unfathomable, I simply mean we cannot attribute him with petty characteristics since we have no idea about him. I have no idea about him. I don't know if he exists. I'm merely speculating like I said. It is a possibility the universe was created by an external source such as a deity. Is that improbable? I wouldn't say so, do you really think there is only one reality?

I'm confused as to what you are for.

You speculate yes. However you tip towards the side, or at least imply, from what I understand, that it is more "probable." Your speculations are simply speculations, not evidence.

It may well be possible. We don't know. However, I wouldn't go as far as say it is "likely." There is simply no evidence to back it up.

As response to your question: I do not have evidence for other realities. Furthermore this "other reality" can be anything you can imagine. It has no basis. We don't know this "other reality" We have no evidence for it.

"If it was "I would think that if such a God did exist, he would never force us into this world. If anything, we would have done it ourselves. "
I've said "This all powerful, all knowing God must know that we would impose this 'suffering' on ourselves. Why would this God create us in such a way? Isn't God all powerful?""

All I can attribute to God is that he has the power to create. That is it. I can't attribute anything else to him. I like to think of God as a force of creation. Not a person. Not an animal. I wouldn't say he's all powerful, because I don't feel that God has a consciousness. I look to it as a force just like gravity. In short though, I can't answer your question because I honestly don't know.

That is a speculation for your version of "God."

I have no quarrel over ones speculations of anything. People are free to think.

I start disagreeing when one tells another that something is true without evidence. Examples would be religions, homeopathy, or anything superstitious.

The confusion lies here -

When you replied to my message for Shunsin no Shisui:

by your logic, disease, famine, torture, everything that is "bad" is created by your god.
if god did not, then god does nothing to prevent them. and god knows it too.

You said:

Who ever said that it was God's choice to bring us into this harsh reality? I would think that if such a God did exist, he would never force us into this world. If anything, we would have done it ourselves.

I assumed you were talking about the god Shunsin no Shisui was speaking of: Allah.

I've said "This all powerful, all knowing God must know that we would impose this 'suffering' on ourselves. Why would this God create us in such a way? Isn't God all powerful?"

Those two questions are directed towards those who believe God created everything.

5. Those forms of suffering are all obviously terrible and tragic. I do believe they may be a life experience. Whatever you want to call the external part of that person, a soul, a spirit, or whatever, is incredibly strong.
I'm assuming you are an atheist. I think that is perfectly fine. Operating with rational thinking is something we need more of. In fact, I'd probably be like you if it wasn't for my experiences. All I can offer for you is subjective evidence, which obviously isn't enough. I am arguing for you to accept the possibility of God. 1. You may compare it to unicorns and goblins existing, but to me these things existing par on a completely different level than a creator existing in a different dimension. 2. However, goblins and unicorns may certainly exist in another dimension. ~LOL

Of course I think of the possibility of a "God/s." However, there is a lack of evidence for its existence. There is simply no reason or need to believe in its existence.

1. Goblins and Unicorns are on a completely different level than your "God" because you added the word "creator" and added the detail that your "God" exists in a different dimension. There is no evidence for any of them.

2. Haha.
But I don't quite agree with you saying they may "certainly" exist though.

We don't know that God created the universe, but it is a possibility that should be considered. We cannot know this God as in: We cannot attribute him physical characteristics since he does not exist in the physical world. Creating a physical world such as the universe isn't attributing him with a characteristic, besides the power to create which we simply cannot investigate.
The universe is physical, and thus follows a physical law. All things are derived from something else. Animals reproduce to continue their species. God is something from another dimension, and thus, does not follow physical law. This is my speculation.

I do not disagree. This is your speculation.

However I would like to point out that speculations can be anything anyone thinks of. The possibilities are endless when void of evidence.

Everything doesn't need to be "Created", "Derived" is a word I would use. But I'm not a cosmologist, nor a physicist. I don't have a profession that would amplify my knowledge on these things. 1. I'm merely giving you a possibility to consider. I don't like to think that a God doesn't exist, because it closes the possibilities. Is it wrong to say that we simply don't know?

1. Am I open to the possibility? Yes.
As of now there is no reason for me to believe in the God you have speculated. The same can be said about anything we have no knowledge of.

There is no shame in saying "We don't know."

Again, my experiences go against disbelieving in a God. I'm not a Christian, or anything like that. Those ridiculous organizations that attribute God with characteristics are laughable. I'm an agnostic deist if anything.

As a deist, God becomes irrelevant after creating the universe.

From our conversation, I'm assuming that you simply just want to know if it exist.
A reasonable position.

 

[toothpaste]

I would like to inform you that you have butchered my post. You've deleted the stuff between the Luke Passage and the sentence "...compared to the amount of bad religion has done."

I did not try to connect these two things.

In exodus 32 from verse 1 to 26, the children of israel were worshippin other gods. That was the number 1 sin of the bible, and in the old testament if you sin, the punishment comes to you.

This God is jealous.

You say it as though it is justifiable to punish someone because they believe in a different imaginary deity.

The difference is Jesus came to die for our sins and it is not so anymore.
If you sin now, there is no immediate punishment because Jesus has taken the punishment already.

Jesus died for 'our' sins. This implies that somehow I am responsible for another person's mistake. This is scapegoating.

How moral is that?

If that question is a test of my faith, I've already said before that I'm a terrible Christian. I follow science, I find it fascinating. I lie daily, I covet material things, and I obviously don't detest everyone except Jesus, nor does any other Christian. 1. If that was the case, then why make "Honor thy mother and thy father" his eighth commandment if only then to cast them aside? 2. He said only to put him above all else, not push all else down beneath him, and yes, there is a difference. I don't expect you to understand my beliefs, only to respect them as my own.

It is not a test of your faith. It is to show you how you pick and choose things from the bible. You take the stuff you like and ignore the stuff you don't like.

1. Simple. It's a contradiction. There are many others like it in the Bible.

2. The only difference here is our interpretation. What makes yours right from mine? It clearly says "hate."

Luke 14:26 Kings James Version
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

i do not expect to change your beliefs. however, i would like for you to think for yourself.

Edit: And for someone who detests the idea of God so much, not once have you mentioned the devil.

You mistake me. I do not detest the idea of God. I detest how something like God is used to brain-wash people and distort reality. - like Creationism, West Boro, telling children disbelief will cause eternal damnation.

God and the Devil go hand in hand. Both are imaginary and both have done gruesome things in the bible.

If you want to go into semantics, God is more powerful than the Devil, but God allows the Devil to roam.

It never ends. One can keep making stuff up when evidence is void.

 

[kellzfresh]

I would like to inform you that you have butchered my post. You've deleted the stuff between the Luke Passage and the sentence "...compared to the amount of bad religion has done."

I did not try to connect these two things.



This God is jealous.

You say it as though it is justifiable to punish someone because they believe in a different imaginary deity.



Jesus died for 'our' sins. This implies that somehow I am responsible for another person's mistake. This is scapegoating.

How moral is that?

1. In the old testament, the israelites punished pple who didn't follow God as the only true God. He saved them from war, provided for them and punished them when they didn't obey him. Just like a father. And yes he is a jealous God. If he created them, why shuldnt they worship him.

2. No, Jesus is the son of God and was sacrificed to forgive everyone. You don't hav any relation to another person sin. But Jesus died so that we will not be punished when we sin, but have a chance to ask for forgiveness.

 

[eevy]

Agnostic , but more on the atheist side

 

[toothpaste]

In the old testament, the israelites punished pple who didn't follow God as the only true God. He saved them from war, provided for them and punished them when they didn't obey him. Just like a father. And yes he is a jealous God. If he created them, why shuldnt they worship him.

"In the old testament, the israelites punished pple who didn't follow God as the only true God."
Exactly.
"He saved them from war, provided for them and punished them when they didn't obey him."
Exactly.
"Just like a father."
I disagree. This is an abusive father. This creator creates human's with the ability to disobey. Punishes them for it. This creator allows human's to have thoughts of other imaginary beings. Punishes them for it.

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
The mistreatment of women.

No, Jesus is the son of God and was sacrificed to forgive everyone. You don't hav any relation to another person sin. But Jesus died so that we will not be punished when we sin, but have a chance to ask for forgiveness.

Jesus is the son of God who is also God himself.

To believe in Jesus you have to believe in Adam and Eve's "sinful" act of eating a fruit from the forbidden tree. According to Augustine of Hippo, the sin of Adam and Eve is passed down through the male line, through semen.

Newborn children "inherit" this sin.

How is a newborn child responsible for the "sin" of another? In this case Adam and Eve, both of which are imaginary.

This all powerful God does not think of a better way to absolve "sin" (which he can easily erase. He is God after all...) than to send himself down to be tortured and executed.

 

[squigles]

I believe in God.

I asked myself a few questions as a normal healthy thinking human who admits understanding and knowing many things and admits being unaware / not knowing many many things too and being objective.

Objectivity is a construct of rationality. Rationality depends on facts and evidence. Therefore, objectivity cannot be applied to support belief in god.

The questions are:

1 - Where do I come from? How come do I exist now in my actual state?

You were born as a member of the human species which is a direct descendent of another primate species through evolution, which all species have originated. You exist now because your father and mother copulated and 9 months later, you popped out of your mother's vagina as a screaming newborn baby.

2 - What is there after I die? Is it over for me or is there something after I die?

All evidence suggests that when you die, it's over. Once your body stops working, your brain dies. Because your mind and consciousness are a product of your brain, dying is just like unplugging the power cord to a TV. Your brain shuts off, and that's it. There is no reason to believe that 'you' exist after your body dies.

3 - What should I do at least now during my actual life if I was created and if there is an life after death?

If you believe that you were created and that there is an afterlife, then there's not much point in living this life.

4 - How can I be sure about my answers??? Because that is no joke.. I need to be sure about the truth.

If your goal is to ascertain the truth about your existence, your best bet is to pursue science and push for breakthroughs in understanding of the natural universe. It's important to understand that the Bible and religion does not provide any new answers and if you really do care about the truth, you cannot possibly believe anything that religion or the bible says.

What you should do is spend some time combing through Youtube videos on the subjects of evolution, biology, chemistry, physics, and astronomy. Then you should spend some more time studying the debates of great atheists/agnostics, such as Christopher Hitches, Sam Harris, Micheal Shermer, Lawrence Kraus, Richard Dawkins, Dan Dennett, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and Bart Erhman.

All of these people have authored books on just about every subject, covering all angles of religion and science.

The answer is NOT to just stop asking questions and accept Muslim as the truth. By doing that, you're just making sure you remain ignorant.

 

[Nekaku]

I only pray for others not for myself. If that sounds weird I'm sorry.

 

[ZK]

1. I never said it was the end of the world prediction, I said it was a prediction that has happened
2. Homosexuallity existed, but is rampant now
3. Sicknesses are formed like air these days another new one was formed in japan recently (there are a thousand times more sickness than they were before)
4. Natural disasters were increased rapidly from 2003 till now (check the stats online it is definately a million times more than jesus time)
5. False prophets about the bible is what I mean
6. Yeah which calender does 95% of the world use. Check ur sources, 2012 is actually 2012AD (after death of jesus)
7. Some people believe in scientists who say the world is created by reactions(blah blah) and humans are formed. I would like them to create a living human or another world from their theory and then give me a call.

1. I claimed no such thing. I merely remarked on how you appear to take pride in these 'fulfilled predictions'. Again, if I say; 'it's going to rain', I'm obviously right, because it's going to rain sometimes, just maybe not today.
The same concept applies to your predictions. With the prediction 'homosexuality will increase' or 'homosexuality will become a problem', I've effectively covered hundreds of 'predictions'. It's all about semantics when speaking of vague predictions like that. Even clear, precise predictions can be twisted with a few well-placed words.
My point is; your 'predictions' do not support your arguments.

2. Correct, there are more homosexuals now than there were during the Roman period, but the global population is a few hundred times larger now than it was back then, so it's a natural development.
But homosexuality as such is not 'running rampant' as you clearly put it. Homosexuals are still accepted in some nations and abhorred in others; but that's a matter of culture, history and regime.
Globally, more homosexuals have become open in regards to their sexuality. That', however, does not increase the actual number of homosexuals. You'll find that there were many homosexuals during the Roman period, about as many as there are now, ratio-wise.

3. Please support that claim. Of course, modern medical technology allows us to diagnose hundreds of thousands of diseases because we can distinguish between the different symptoms, viruses, baterias and parasites. That, however, does not increase the actual amount of diseases.
During the Roman period a cold was a cold and pissing blood meant death. The end. Doctors haven't always had access to the equipment they have today.

4. So... Jesus lived in 2003? Again, re-read what I wrote about predictions.

5. Those prophets are included. You'll find that many 'branches' of Christianity has been ruthlessly suppressed through these last two thousand years. Hundreds of small, local 'religions' have grown and almost every Christian worships God and Jesus in his/her own way.
False prophets? Not really.

6. I'm well aware -_- But other calenders exists. I'm merely asking you to tell me how the calender proves anything, or supports anything for that matter.
Does the Mayan calender dictate the end of the world merely because it's a calender?

7. O_O
So... How is a scientist a reaction?
Scientists didn't create the world (unless one is a Creationist; God would be a scientist, no?) they try to prove how it was done. What happened? How did it happen? To prove that gravity exists does not make me the creator of gravity, nor does it enable me to create gravity.