Do you believe in God?

[Dr Dark Knight]

i'm not sure i follow. i have questioned them logically..

how else do you criticize an idea?

Like.. if you dont believe in God, tell your view, why you dont. and while doing that, dont say things like, you people are stupid to believe in something so preposterous, or insult God or Prophets. The other person WILL obviously take it personally if you insult their God.

Thats all bro. be nice. make the discussion fruitful. if you insult someone. he wont believe or agree with you. keep your cool. and ask whatever you want to. Ask me. I will try to answer your querries.

I already have, 3 times i think. And your response was "no, that is not what i was taught that was, therefor you are wrong"

OK. kindly quote me the post in which I said that statement.

 

[toothpaste]

Penalty for apostasy only applies to those who have followed Islam, practiced the teachings and lived as one and then have turned their back on the religion and begun spouting things against the religion. Also a reminder, it is only persecuted in Islamic land/ territory when there is a Islamic leader and at least four witnesses.

A Muslim has no right to commit such actions in any other territory.

You may not see it like this, but the action of someone who does that is the equivalent of someone breaking laws and being sentenced with the death penalty. It is one of the greatest and dishonorable sins in Islam.

A random comparison - but fits, like how Sasuke abandoned Konoha.

i don't think konoha ever had any plans to persecute sasuke simply because he left the village. he started getting into trouble when he committed crimes.

you agree that the penalty for apostasy is death.

whether or not it only happens on islamic land is irrelevant. it still happens.

harming someone which hold different views is extreme and immoral.

what you are saying is that the values of islam trumps everyone else's.

if you wish to worship some 7th century preacher, go ahead. however no one else is obliged to take it seriously.

 

[AP2k]

For the last time, I am not Christian. I don't have the knowlege of the Bible, that you keep insulting. Being a Muslim, I have respect for Bible because we believe that Jesus(p.b.u.h) was a messenger of God. We dont stand for the Bible to be insulted.

The crow will never become white by calling it white. What is Satan?
It is based on the concept of the devil from our religions. how can you say that Satanism is something entirely new. Even the name is derived from the Arabic word Shaitan. and you defend yourself by saying that it is something entirely new. Satan is the negative force described by the believers. Someone makes a new religion, worshiping the evil described in our religion. And you expect me to say that Satanism is a new religion? Go get your info right kid.

Like.. if you dont believe in God, tell your view, why you dont. and while doing that, dont say things like, you people are stupid to believe in something so preposterous, or insult God or Prophets. The other person WILL obviously take it personally if you insult their God.

Thats all bro. be nice. make the discussion fruitful. if you insult someone. he wont believe or agree with you. keep your cool. and ask whatever you want to. Ask me. I will try to answer your querries.




OK. kindly quote me the post in which I said that statement.

Right here

 

[Dr Dark Knight]

i don't think konoha ever had any plans to persecute sasuke simply because he left the village. he started getting into trouble when he committed crimes.

you agree that the penalty for apostasy is death.

whether or not it only happens on islamic land is irrelevant. it still happens.

harming someone which hold different views is extreme and immoral.

what you are saying is that the values of islam trumps everyone else's.

if you wish to worship some 7th century preacher, go ahead. however no one else is obliged to take it seriously.

Thats what I was talking about.

 

[toothpaste]

Like.. if you dont believe in God, tell your view, why you dont. and while doing that, dont say things like, you people are stupid to believe in something so preposterous, or insult God or Prophets. The other person WILL obviously take it personally if you insult their God.

Thats all bro. be nice. make the discussion fruitful. if you insult someone. he wont believe or agree with you. keep your cool. and ask whatever you want to. Ask me. I will try to answer your querries.




OK. kindly quote me the post in which I said that statement.

" dont say things like, you people are stupid to believe in something so preposterous,"

i have never insulted anyone.

what i have done is ridicule imaginary being/s.

if that somehow insults someone, so what?

should i feel insulted if someone ridicules the naruto series?

if you wish to worship some 7th century preacher, go ahead. however no one else is obliged to take it seriously.

Thats what I was talking about.

how is that an insult? it's criticism.

please! tell me how that's an insult..

no one is obliged to follow or respect your prophet.

 

[Dr Dark Knight]

Right here

Could you make that part bold? I cant find the line where I say that 'I was taught this so you are wrong.'?

 

[Painfan]

i believe in god

 

[Dr Dark Knight]

how is that an insult? it's criticism.

please! tell me how that's an insult..

no one is obliged to follow or respect your prophet.

lol. I know you are not obliged to respect anyone's God or Prophet.

It goes like this. If you criticize someone's mother, that is a personal attack. right? why is it? because everyone believes that their parents are ideal people.
Note: you are not obliged to respect this person's mother. but criticizing her in any way, when she has not harmed you in any way, will make that person really mad at you.

when someone follows a religion, their God, or Prophet is dearer to them than their parents. would they take it personally or not? dont criticize, just ask. if you disagree, just say that you are not satisfied with the answer and you disagree. no one gets hurt. right? you understand what i am trying to say bro?

 

[Lilat]

I can't help but think that this entire thread is pointless. Not just from the comments, but from what similar discussions in the rest of world has led to.

For people like me, who do not believe in the Gods from our religions, it's clear religious people have one serious flaw in such a discussion. They do not need proof to believe. With such a mindset, anything can be true, if you simply choose to believe without proof. For us who actually look at the world and ask questions like 'Why?' and 'How?', that mindset seems impossibly limited and outdated. It's not about being openminded towards religion, it's a matter of common sense. If an ancient book was to be found that stated a magic shoe existed on the other side of the moon and that this Great Shoe created the universe, noone would believe that to be true. The fact is no real argument can ever be made against the 'logic' religious people posses, so I don't see why you guys are trying.

I have a number of religious friends and I never discuss it with them simply because I know there is no getting to them. Logic, proof and reason falls short of unwavering belief that needs no proof. And you see it all the time. People go to war and kill eachother over belief. They treat women as a lesser gender simply because ancient books stated so. Fathers have killed their own daughters, simply because they chose people of a different religion.

My absolutely biggest grief with religion however, is how adults taint children with this brainwashing. Imagine, people are telling small children that this life does not matter, the afterlife does. You must do as the ancient holy books tell us or you will burn for eternity. It is an insult to the miracle of life to live life as if a test to the afterlife and even worse, to brainwash children like that. It's not like people let children grow up and choose if they want to believe or not, the beliefs are forced upon them from an early age. Anyone who thinks they chose their religion from a young age fools only themselves. It's no coincidence that almost all people have the same religion their parents had.

Lastly, much respect to everyone who tried to make reasoned arguments in this thread. Sadly, it was few, but great to see some are out there.

 

[Wparker6804]

i believe in god

You know, for a new-ish member, you've got more common sense and curtosy than alot of other people I've met the past year and a half I've been here.

"This is what I think;" bam. People take their beleifs, views, opinions, hypothoses and logic to bash others and/or use logic simply to feel acomplished enough to say "I proved him/her wrong."

I know this is a stupid thng to say, but I'm respectful that you go as simple as that without trying to insult others or start an argument. We need more of that.

lol. I know you are not obliged to respect anyone's God or Prophet.

It goes like this. If you criticize someone's mother, that is a personal attack. right? why is it? because everyone believes that their parents are ideal people.
Note: you are not obliged to respect this person's mother. but criticizing her in any way, when she has not harmed you in any way, will make that person really mad at you.

when someone follows a religion, their God, or Prophet is dearer to them than their parents. would they take it personally or not? dont criticize, just ask. if you disagree, just say that you are not satisfied with the answer and you disagree. no one gets hurt. right? you understand what i am trying to say bro?

HA HA! YES! YES! YES!
Someone playing devil's advocate (pun not intended) and looking fairly at both sides. Friend request?

 

[AngryRock]

Hitler was deeply religous, he disagreed with a lot of catholic/chritian teachings but still believed in there god. Read Mein Kamf.

Just because you believe there is a god does not mean you are a christian. The claim was that he was christian.

 

[Wparker6804]

you just proved to yourself why it is futile to believe in god. if you cant argue why you believe in something, then there is no use in believing it. you said it was just the act of arguing to people about something like this is where you failed. yes arguing it for the sake of just arguing is a useless ordeal in some cases, especially this case, but another reason why it failed is because you were not capable of bringing up a 100% proof backed answer to whoever you were arguing with. which brings me back to why it is useless to believe in something that you cannot back up with 100% proof. The real answer surprisingly is easier and logically correct, which is agnosticism. You just cant prove or disprove something like god, atleast a god based on religion. (because religion is created by humans). No humans, no religion. no god?? maybe, maybe not. There could be a god that does not exist in religion. i am going off topic but its something to think about. Maybe god does not need worshiping. maybe god is not really a human figure like we are. it could just be a thing. a being with no shape. it could be animate or inanimate. god could be a metaphor for whatever created the universe, possibly a big bang? a recycle of the universe matter from a dead universe to create a new universe which we now live in until the next collapse? who knows. There are so many possibilities but yet people limit their view to such narrow-mindedness simplicities.

You just don't get it. It's not like that. It wasn't me not being able to back it up. I was more than capable of doing so, but it was me making that one big mistake that caused the entire thing to crash and burn. It's hard to put into words and have others SEE IT FROM MY POINT OF VIEW.

It wasnt my lack of ability to support it. I DID. I just went about it the wrong way.

 

[GRAFINATOR]

I said agnostic, but I will attempt to explain very briefly my take on the universe and/or deities/gods.

Most simply put, first I will point out one thing. That everything in the universe seeks to attain balance. Elements with too many atoms that are unstable release atoms to become stable (becoming lead in most cases, stable element with highest # of atoms for anyone who doesn't know chemistry). This balance can be seen with everything. There are periods of extreme drought, and periods of extreme rain. Planets do not fly around aimlessly through the universe (yes due to gravity), they stay anchored around suns. Day and night is another example, although this can be scientifically explained, it still represents balance. Chinese people realized it, yin and yang. Any person who has been in school long enough can understand the natural balance or at least the balance that seems to be sought after naturally by everything living and nonliving.

Based on this, I believe that there must be some reason why the universe seeks balance. It could be what some call a "God", or it could be explained by physics and chemistry once enough information is gained. This is why I am agnostic, because I do not believe there is enough information to decide either way. I also like to think that there is a reason why humans do not have answers to profound questions like these. Either humans are not ready to receive that information (i.e. we are too young, this is often stated in movies with aliens and I believe it to be true), or we do not have the means to find the answer. Or it could be both, and that humans as a whole are too naive and therefore have not discovered or do not have the means to discover the answers we seek. If you have seen the new Green Lantern movie, it really makes sense. The alien they discover is kept secret because humans as a whole would not be able to accept that alien reaces exist. It would eventually change our entire viewpoint as a race (hopefully unless we really are that uncivilized and young).

That was long winded, congrats to anyone who read it.

 

[GRAFINATOR]

Also, reading through this, anyone who is an atheist fighting against someone who believes in God is being naive. Of course you cannot prove the existence of God as a physical being. In most simple terms, religion is hope. God isn't a physical being, it is a belief. If nobody believed in God, it might as well not exist. God is based on faith and belief. Having an argument with someone who believes in God trying to prove them wrong is pointless. In addition, people who believe in God and try to prove him as a physical being are also naive. This thread is about BELIEFS. We don't have the answers. Arguing is a waste of time and thought.

 

[Wparker6804]

I said agnostic, but I will attempt to explain very briefly my take on the universe and/or deities/gods.

Most simply put, first I will point out one thing. That everything in the universe seeks to attain balance. Elements with too many atoms that are unstable release atoms to become stable (becoming lead in most cases, stable element with highest # of atoms for anyone who doesn't know chemistry). This balance can be seen with everything. There are periods of extreme drought, and periods of extreme rain. Planets do not fly around aimlessly through the universe (yes due to gravity), they stay anchored around suns. Day and night is another example, although this can be scientifically explained, it still represents balance. Chinese people realized it, yin and yang. Any person who has been in school long enough can understand the natural balance or at least the balance that seems to be sought after naturally by everything living and nonliving.

Based on this, I believe that there must be some reason why the universe seeks balance. It could be what some call a "God", or it could be explained by physics and chemistry once enough information is gained. This is why I am agnostic, because I do not believe there is enough information to decide either way. I also like to think that there is a reason why humans do not have answers to profound questions like these. Either humans are not ready to receive that information (i.e. we are too young, this is often stated in movies with aliens and I believe it to be true), or we do not have the means to find the answer. Or it could be both, and that humans as a whole are too naive and therefore have not discovered or do not have the means to discover the answers we seek. If you have seen the new Green Lantern movie, it really makes sense. The alien they discover is kept secret because humans as a whole would not be able to accept that alien reaces exist. It would eventually change our entire viewpoint as a race (hopefully unless we really are that uncivilized and young).

That was long winded, congrats to anyone who read it.

Well, you keep an open mind. Points for that.
Points for the points you made.

When you gave your views on "balance" you sounded like Walter or Walternate from Fringe. (If you haven't seen it and you don't mind graphic images, you should watch Fringe--it's good).

 

[toothpaste]

lol. I know you are not obliged to respect anyone's God or Prophet.

It goes like this. If you criticize someone's mother, that is a personal attack. right? why is it? because everyone believes that their parents are ideal people.
Note: you are not obliged to respect this person's mother. but criticizing her in any way, when she has not harmed you in any way, will make that person really mad at you.

when someone follows a religion, their God, or Prophet is dearer to them than their parents. would they take it personally or not? dont criticize, just ask. if you disagree, just say that you are not satisfied with the answer and you disagree. no one gets hurt. right? you understand what i am trying to say bro?

you choose whether or not what i say insults you.

i have not insulted anyone here.

if you wish to worship someone. go ahead. but be ready for criticism.

 

[Dr Dark Knight]

you choose whether or not what i say insults you.

i have not insulted anyone here.

if you wish to worship someone. go ahead. but be ready for criticism.

there is a method. a way to criticize. you dont go around insulting someone's beliefs. like if i go to an atheist and say, 'hey! you believe in darwin's theory? go climb a tree, son of a chimp!'
wouldnt the atheist feel bad about that? now that is also criticism.
try to understand what i am saying. cant you discuss anything without criticism? that would make it worthwhile. we could come to a common understanding.

 

[novacore]

Yes...and for the atheists and the agnostics i just want to say this....how can u possibly believe that nothing reacted with more nothing to create a big bang of nothing that made the universe just saying..im not trying to be rude although it probably sounded like it lol...also it is a safe religion and by that i mean nothing bad will happen if u believe however if u dont and the belief in God is real then bad things will most definitely happen of the fiery sorts...for believers of science that say it holds all the answers answer my first sentence with science (not a theory a definitive answer)...in the end we all believe in something because none of us have all the answers:ice:

Heres how i know you are simple-minded and cannot think of other possibilities.

You say that its safe to believe what you are believing right now because there is no consequence in the after life as long as you believe. You then say that there has to be a god because there would be no way to explain the big bang. Ok lets just say there is a god. HOW do you know that the god you worship is the god that created the big bang? what if it was actually a muslim god or w/e other religious god there is? that would mean even though you believe in christianity, you will go to hell because you are worshiping the false god, even if you dont know that you are.

Im so tired of ignorance like you and others. Even when people explain it thoroughly, you blatantly refuse to accept the answer given which is true.

 

[novacore]

I can't help but think that this entire thread is pointless. Not just from the comments, but from what similar discussions in the rest of world has led to.

For people like me, who do not believe in the Gods from our religions, it's clear religious people have one serious flaw in such a discussion. They do not need proof to believe. With such a mindset, anything can be true, if you simply choose to believe without proof. For us who actually look at the world and ask questions like 'Why?' and 'How?', that mindset seems impossibly limited and outdated. It's not about being openminded towards religion, it's a matter of common sense. If an ancient book was to be found that stated a magic shoe existed on the other side of the moon and that this Great Shoe created the universe, noone would believe that to be true. The fact is no real argument can ever be made against the 'logic' religious people posses, so I don't see why you guys are trying.

I have a number of religious friends and I never discuss it with them simply because I know there is no getting to them. Logic, proof and reason falls short of unwavering belief that needs no proof. And you see it all the time. People go to war and kill eachother over belief. They treat women as a lesser gender simply because ancient books stated so. Fathers have killed their own daughters, simply because they chose people of a different religion.

My absolutely biggest grief with religion however, is how adults taint children with this brainwashing. Imagine, people are telling small children that this life does not matter, the afterlife does. You must do as the ancient holy books tell us or you will burn for eternity. It is an insult to the miracle of life to live life as if a test to the afterlife and even worse, to brainwash children like that. It's not like people let children grow up and choose if they want to believe or not, the beliefs are forced upon them from an early age. Anyone who thinks they chose their religion from a young age fools only themselves. It's no coincidence that almost all people have the same religion their parents had.

Lastly, much respect to everyone who tried to make reasoned arguments in this thread. Sadly, it was few, but great to see some are out there.

it also sucks how it effected daily life for everyone. religion is influenced in politics, schools, events, peer pressure... its sad that i have to live in a world that i have to be effected directly or indirectly by something i know based on rationality is actually completely irrelevant to the advancement of humankind.

 

[TheFifthMizukage]

I am Athiest; This poster will explain;

You must be registered for see images

You put a great emphasis on science. But have you ever heard of Archimedes. I inferred from the poster that to be proclaimed fact you must answer the scientific method. BUT THAT VERY POINT CANNOT BE PROVED THROUGH THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. You can't say that science is the only way to make a proposition of fact because in that statement you are making a proposition of fain in science.