Proof that Deva is stronger than Itachi

[-S-]

But will Nagato not feel the effects of it? The Peins are only as strong as the one controlling them. Nagato breaking out of it is a different story tho.

This ^^

Nagato implanted chakra receivers into each of his Six Paths of Pain as body piercings. Doing so allowed him to transmit his chakra into the bodies and control them remotely as if they were his own body

genjutsu techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain, thus causing a disruption in their senses

Genjutsu disrupts chakra flow.

Pain's chakra is Nagato's.

Nagato's chakra is disturbed.

Nagato is affected.

 

[lol99]

it says anyone who hears the frog song will get caught in the genjutsu even if there are hundreds of people hearing it

did nagato not hear the song?

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[Maunten]

You make no sense.




.

I will try to make sense for, I will break it down into small bites.

Genjutsu is basically the caster taking control of the chakra network of the victim and in doing so creating a alternate world, or an illusion.

The victim can get out of this Genjutsu by regaining control of their own chakra network, by forcing the Chakra of the caster out, or by someone else doing it for them.

Itachi can not take control of someones Chakra network from miles away, Tsukuyomi is a short range Genjutsu.

Gama disrupt the chakra network of anyone who can hear the song, it has only one effect and that is Paralysis, Tsukuyomi a more complex Jutsu does not have just one effect, the caster takes control of the victims mental reality.


Even Nagato had to use black spears to take control of chakra networks from miles away by pumping his chakra into those black spheres and manipulating the chakra network of the victim.

it says anyone who hears the frog song will get caught in the genjutsu even if there are hundreds of people hearing it

did nagato not hear the song?

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Is Nagato in the cube?

He did not hear the song.

Either he did not hear it or his chakra is too great for the genjutsu.

 

[OnPoint]

Itachi has a bunch of other Genjutsu, for example those who are based on a pure paralysis. Once Deva was caught in it, he is an easy target for Itachi. To be honest I don't see how Deva on his own stands any chances against Itachi. Shinra Tensei and Bansho Tenin will by far not be enough for beating him. If Deva would use Chibaku Tensei always in the very beginning of the fight, even he would be unbeatable. Chibaku Tensei is actually his last option and there are great chances to beat him before and prevent him from using Chibaku Tensei. Especially since he has to be near Nagato.

Tsukuyomi lasts, what, 72 hours in the victims head? But in real life, it's an instant. Itachi could tortue Deva Path for hours on end, but the Path cannot be subjected to mental pain, they're merely dead bodies. Any other low level genjutsu can be dispelled by Nagato, because he will remain unaffected and he can simply disrupt the chakra flow in the rods. Tsukuyomi only lasts an instant in real time and doesn't even harm his paths, so Nagato doesn't even need to bother wasting energy breaking his paths out of the jutsu. In any case, the use of Mangekyou Sharingan jutsus is very taxing on Itachi's body, wasting it on Tsukuyomi (which is completely and utterly useless in this situation) would actually swing the match more in Deva Path's favour.

A casual Shinra Tensei flung the Gamatrio hundreds upon hundreds of meters into the mountains. I'll be damned if Itachi is surviving that without breaking out Susanoo, though I still think he'd sustain quite abit of damage. Or Deva Path could just choose to nuke him with a Chou Shinra Tensei from an aerial standpoint at the beginning of the fight :/

 

[Out Of Ctrl]

Deva Path is indeed stronger than Itachi power wise but is Deva Path enough to beat Itachi? No Deva Path wouldn't be enough.

As for the visual genjutsu argument thats going on, if one Path gets caught then the other paths will not get caught since chakra flows through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their mind and to affect the senses. So obviously visual genjutsu wouldnt work the same way as the sound genjutsu.

 

[Awkward Linguist]

Oh.God. U_U

 

[OnPoint]

Hmm this plays no matter since Itachi is not fighting him but a Path. And the Paths can be caught in a Genjuts. Here I'm not talking about Tsukuyomi but about the one who paralyzed Orochimaru for example.

Low level genjutsu can be dispelled though. Tsukuyomi is the only one strong enough to cause any trouble, but it's totally useless here.

Yeah that doesn't make sense. The only logical explanation for that is Kishi wanted to keep Nagato a mystery.

The Peins were paralyzed by sound genjutsu controlled by Nagato. How can dead bodies on their own be paralyzed by sound genjutsu if the one controlling them is not effected?

The Paths can be caught in genjutsu, but it does not carry through to Nagato himself.

 

[Maunten]

This ^^





Genjutsu disrupts chakra flow.

Pain's chakra is Nagato's.

Nagato's chakra is disturbed.

Nagato is affected.

Nagato is controlling them, their chakra network is not his, he has created a chakra network for them and manipulates it according to the situation.

The disruption of their chakra network is only the disruption of his control over them

 

[lol99]

The Paths can be caught in genjutsu, but it does not carry through to Nagato himself.

how can nagato not be affected by the frog song

tsukuyomi may not get carry to nagato but sound genjutsu should

 

[Lelouch.]

Tsukuyomi lasts, what, 72 hours in the victims head? But in real life, it's an instant. Itachi could tortue Deva Path for hours on end, but the Path cannot be subjected to mental pain, they're merely dead bodies. Any other low level genjutsu can be dispelled by Nagato, because he will remain unaffected and he can simply disrupt the chakra flow in the rods. Tsukuyomi only lasts an instant in real time and doesn't even harm his paths, so Nagato doesn't even need to bother wasting energy breaking his paths out of the jutsu. In any case, the use of Mangekyou Sharingan jutsus is very taxing on Itachi's body, wasting it on Tsukuyomi (which is completely and utterly useless in this situation) would actually swing the match more in Deva Path's favour.

A casual Shinra Tensei flung the Gamatrio hundreds upon hundreds of meters into the mountains. I'll be damned if Itachi is surviving that without breaking out Susanoo, though I still think he'd sustain quite abit of damage. Or Deva Path could just choose to nuke him with a Chou Shinra Tensei from an aerial standpoint at the beginning of the fight :/

In order to free someone from a Genjutsu, a second being has to interrupt your chakra flow by sending his own in your body as a second chakra source. Nagato is controlling Deva Path by constantly sending chakra through his chakra receivers and since his Paths were caught in a Genjutsu once, sending his own Chakra into the dead bodies seems not to be enough.

I disagree with the second path as well. The toads are nothing but massive objects while Susanoo already proved to be resistant when withstood Bakus suction and Danzos increased Fuuton-technique in even its incomplete state. Susanoo is not only resistant on his own but can also cling with his huge fingers into the ground like Kyuubi did it with his four tails. In this case Susanoo could even turn the force of Deva-Path's Shinra Tensei against himself. Further it doesn't matter how far Shinra Tensei is pushing you away since Susanoo grants you a very strong protection; already the ribcage grants you enough to fully avert the impact of A's Raiga Bomb nobody survived according to Darui before.

 

[OnPoint]

how can nagato not be affected by the frog song

tsukuyomi may not get carry to nagato but sound genjutsu should

If Nagato had been affected by the jutsu, then his mind and body would be inside the illusion aswell. It says it in the databook entry that those caught by the jutsu have their minds and bodies trapped inside the cube. Was Nagato himself in there? It's clear as day that Nagato wasn't affected.

 

[rinnegan human puppet]

Deva pain can easily fly out of Itachi's reach and drop a chibaku tensei. idk about all this itachi winning stuff lol

 

[-S-]

Nagato is controlling them, their chakra network is not his, he has created a chakra network for them and manipulates it according to the situation.

The disruption of their chakra network is only the disruption of his control over them

So you say he creates a chakra network?

So in a network, if everything is linked, if one is affected, all are? No?

 

[raju22]

Nagato is hard to catch in a genjutsu via any of his path's, the answer lies in the working of path's and there senses.

You put a video cam in a room with a earphone to hear what is going on and a microphone to talk to those people in that room if you need, then you come to your room and turn on your screen, now you can hear, see, talk to the people sitting in the next room, but you are free to look around in your room, talk to people sitting next to you, and hear what they are saying.

Same goes here with Nagato and his path's as said in the manga...

Spoiler

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So Nagato is the person in the room who has a cam (eye), microphone (mouth), and earphone (ear), and Nagato does not need to put his own senses in order to use these powers, he is still free to look around him, talk to konan, and hear what she is saying.

It does make him immune to any attack taking place on his path's, he only needed to block the earphone (Path's hearing ability) and he was good, he was cought (I do not believe this) in Jiraiya's Jutsu because he was not expecting that from him, same thing he can do with eye based genjutsu, just cut off the video feed at the right moment, he is a very high LVL sensor and can sense attack's coming toward's his paths if he want's since he is sending chakra from outside.

 

[Maunten]

In order to free someone from a Genjutsu, a second being has to interrupt your chakra flow by sending his own in your body as a second chakra source. Nagato is controlling Deva Path by constantly sending chakra through his chakra receivers and since his Paths were caught in a Genjutsu once, sending his own Chakra into the dead bodies seems not to be enough.

I disagree with the second path as well. The toads are nothing but massive objects while Susanoo already proved to be resistant when withstood Bakus suction and Danzos increased Fuuton-technique in even its incomplete state. Susanoo is not only resistant on his own but can also cling with his huge fingers to the ground like Kyuubi id it with his four tails. In this case Susanoo could even turn the force of Deva-Path's Shinra Tensei against himself. Further it doesn't matter how far Shinra Tensei is pushing you away since Susanoo grants you a very strong protection; already the ribcage grants you enough to fully avert the impact of A's Raiga Bomb nobody survived according to Darui before.

Madara was pulled out of Susanoo by a force with mass that was able to get through it, a force without mass should do even better.


Sound that's why Gama is the strongest Genjutsu you can't break out of it.

Just as you can't break out of Infinity Tsukuyomi.

 

[Dantee]

Deva Path is indeed stronger than Itachi power wise but is Deva Path enough to beat Itachi? No Deva Path wouldn't be enough.

As for the visual genjutsu argument thats going on, if one Path gets caught then the other paths will not get caught since chakra flows through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their mind and to affect the senses. So obviously visual genjutsu wouldnt work the same way as the sound genjutsu.

This is just Deva Path taking it there are no other paths involved.

I will try to make sense for, I will break it down into small bites.

Genjutsu is basically the caster taking control of the chakra network of the victim and in doing so creating a alternate world, or an illusion.

The victim can get out of this Genjutsu by regaining control of their own chakra network, by forcing the Chakra of the caster out, or by someone else doing it for them.

Itachi can not take control of someones Chakra network from miles away, Tsukuyomi is a short range Genjutsu.

Gama disrupt the chakra network of anyone who can hear the song, it has only one effect and that is Paralysis, Tsukuyomi a more complex Jutsu does not have just one effect, the caster takes control of the victims mental reality.


Even Nagato had to use black spears to take control of chakra networks from miles away by pumping his chakra into those black spheres and manipulating the chakra network of the victim.





Is Nagato in the cube?

He did not hear the song.

Either he did not hear it or his chakra is too great for the genjutsu.

@bold? What fail? :sy: It's close range because it's requires eye contact. What do you think the recievers are for on the damn Paths.

His chakra is to great for genjutsu now? :sy:

@2nd bold

More fail. How do dead bodies hear by themselves???

If one person could explain to me how dead bodies can hear by themselves than I will accept that Nagato wasent effected. If he can be effected by audio genjutsu, Tsuyokmi will work the same way.

 

[Maunten]

So you say he creates a chakra network?

So in a network, if everything is linked, if one is affected, all are? No?

Yeah I knew saying he creates would come back at me lol.

All those Shinobi were alive once before, so they have chakra networks, Nagato controls them by control the chakra within the rods that they are pierced with.

 

[-S-]

Yeah I knew saying he creates would come back at me lol.

All those Shinobi were alive once before, so they have chakra networks, Nagato controls them by control the chakra within the rods that they are pierced with.

I just said that. So essentially, all the chakra networks are connected. If one fails, chakra cannot be transferred.

Disruption in chakra.

Nagato is affected.

 

[Maunten]

This is just Deva Path taking it there are no other paths involved.




@bold? What fail? :sy: It's close range because it's requires eye contact. What do you think the recievers are for on the damn Paths.

His chakra is to great for genjutsu now? :sy:

@2nd bold

More fail. How do dead bodies hear by themselves???

If one person could explain to me how dead bodies can hear by themselves than I will accept that Nagato wasent effected. If he can be effected by audio genjutsu, Tsuyokmi will work the same way.

@1st. Please tell me how Itachi is going to get his chakra into Nagato without making Eye contact with NAGATO

Naruto's chakra was to great for Nagato's control when he went into Beast Sage mode was it not??:flaw:


@2nd. The dead bodies have chakra running through their chakra network hence all of their organs work.....:flaw:

I just said that. So essentially, all the chakra networks are connected. If one fails, chakra cannot be transferred.

Disruption in chakra.

Nagato is affected.

No, if Nagato uses Deva through one path does he use it through all the others?

No

Showing that they are separated networks.

 

[OnPoint]

In order to free someone from a Genjutsu, a second being has to interrupt your chakra flow by sending his own in your body as a second chakra source. Nagato is controlling Deva Path by constantly sending chakra through his chakra receivers and since his Paths were caught in a Genjutsu once, sending his own Chakra into the dead bodies seems not to be enough.

I disagree with the second path as well. The toads are nothing but massive objects while Susanoo already proved to be resistant when withstood Bakus suction and Danzos increased Fuuton-technique in even its incomplete state. Susanoo is not only resistant on his own but can also cling with his huge fingers into the ground like Kyuubi did it with his four tails. In this case Susanoo could even turn the force of Deva-Path's Shinra Tensei against himself. Further it doesn't matter how far Shinra Tensei is pushing you away since Susanoo grants you a very strong protection; already the ribcage grants you enough to fully avert the impact of A's Raiga Bomb nobody survived according to Darui before.

Do you know, there's a very interesting notion that Nagato didn't actively release himself from the jutsu in order to fool Jiraiya into thinking he had overcome Pain. It makes sense aswell, I think Blaze Release was the one who stated it. In any case, Gama Rinshō has been lauded as one of, if not the

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in the manga, it's not in the same league as any low level paralysis genjutsu which Itachi may possess.

Susano cannot reflect. It can stop an attack, but it cannot push it back. Do you think it can withstand a Chou Shinra Tensei?