ProjectOuterspace
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Zetsu is from Hidden Grass and the sword that Orochimaru had and prided himself on was from the Hidden Grass as well.
I wouldn't doubt that he originally came from there.
Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions
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I wouldn't doubt that he originally came from there.
I've been reading a few threads on Tobiramas connection to possibly being tobi, or any involvment with Madara and I've put together My own thoughts as to Tobirama and his Edo Tensei.
Let's begin... here we see Madara admiting he has knowledge of breaking the edo contract and applying it to himself.
So since Tobi did not know how to preform edo tensei, or how to undo it, Tobi is not tobirama (Tobirama's body with madaras soul in it theory is still on the table)
Moving on, So Madara knew of the Edo Tensei's flaw, how? Kabuto never told him, he merely summoned him then sent him off (I'm not going to get into a stupid argument that kabuto somehow told Madara how to void the contract...thats rediculous) So How did Madara learn of it? Oro? no, he was dead before Oro learned it.
So the only person living at the time of Madara with Edo tensei was Tobirama.
So now we ask the question "How?"
How did Madara learn of its flaw when only Tobirama was using it?
My theory is this, Tobirama did not label it a "forbidden jutsu because it was "evil" but because it's horrible flaw that could backfire on the user. So Tobirama banned it after it happened to him once, Madara learned of this by word of mouth since it was in fact a famous jutsu that got many kages attention and made Tobirama worthy of the title Kage, among other reasons.
So Madara learned how to break the Edo contract and fought Hashirama one last time to aquire his dna "Whether it was for the added chakra/"perks" or for the Rinnegan, knowing afterwards he would die.
He planned with Izuna for himself to be killed to be resurected via Edo Tensei with the rinnegan. Izuna would take his eyes back after Madaras death and become "tobi". Madara and Izuna both knew of nagato as a child and chose him to use the Rinnegan Since Madara had little time with it to "Learn of its abilities" So Izuna kept an eye on Nagato and gave his eyes to him during his "black out" and over time created akatsuki to Keep an even closer eye on nagato and learn all of the rinnegans abilities that Nagato unlocked. Izuna got another pair of eyes before have gave madaras to Nagato to continue functioning. (possibly Obitos, idk, i'm not concentrating on obito, just madara/izuna) Madara in Edo form would still have his eyes since he died with them intact.
The inbetween phase...
While Uchiha Madara is dead, Izuna has given madaras eyes to tobi and is continuing with his own plan to complete his brothers work (over throw konoha) while he waits for someone with edo tensei knowledge to appear. He learns of Oro and invites him into akatsuki for his ability of using the Edo Tensei.
Fast forward, Tobi/Izuna has taken the eyes back from the deceased nagato. Kept 1 in his eye socket and the other in "storage" (We've all seen he has a vast storage of eyes before he transplanted itachis into sasuke) and knows that his brother is back as an eternal edo. And they can work together again both with rinnegan and all the biju as one immense Jubi. Tobi is not stupid, the infinite Tsumoyoki is not his real goal, his real goal is to be the elite duo of the past Madara and Izuna Uchiha WITH rinnegans both AND the jubi!
This is why Madara was playing with the kages, his real intent was to get the nine tails which he says here.
Opinions?
Let's begin... here we see Madara admiting he has knowledge of breaking the edo contract and applying it to himself.
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So since Tobi did not know how to preform edo tensei, or how to undo it, Tobi is not tobirama (Tobirama's body with madaras soul in it theory is still on the table)
Moving on, So Madara knew of the Edo Tensei's flaw, how? Kabuto never told him, he merely summoned him then sent him off (I'm not going to get into a stupid argument that kabuto somehow told Madara how to void the contract...thats rediculous) So How did Madara learn of it? Oro? no, he was dead before Oro learned it.
So the only person living at the time of Madara with Edo tensei was Tobirama.
So now we ask the question "How?"
How did Madara learn of its flaw when only Tobirama was using it?
My theory is this, Tobirama did not label it a "forbidden jutsu because it was "evil" but because it's horrible flaw that could backfire on the user. So Tobirama banned it after it happened to him once, Madara learned of this by word of mouth since it was in fact a famous jutsu that got many kages attention and made Tobirama worthy of the title Kage, among other reasons.
So Madara learned how to break the Edo contract and fought Hashirama one last time to aquire his dna "Whether it was for the added chakra/"perks" or for the Rinnegan, knowing afterwards he would die.
He planned with Izuna for himself to be killed to be resurected via Edo Tensei with the rinnegan. Izuna would take his eyes back after Madaras death and become "tobi". Madara and Izuna both knew of nagato as a child and chose him to use the Rinnegan Since Madara had little time with it to "Learn of its abilities" So Izuna kept an eye on Nagato and gave his eyes to him during his "black out" and over time created akatsuki to Keep an even closer eye on nagato and learn all of the rinnegans abilities that Nagato unlocked. Izuna got another pair of eyes before have gave madaras to Nagato to continue functioning. (possibly Obitos, idk, i'm not concentrating on obito, just madara/izuna) Madara in Edo form would still have his eyes since he died with them intact.
The inbetween phase...
While Uchiha Madara is dead, Izuna has given madaras eyes to tobi and is continuing with his own plan to complete his brothers work (over throw konoha) while he waits for someone with edo tensei knowledge to appear. He learns of Oro and invites him into akatsuki for his ability of using the Edo Tensei.
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here we see kabuto being a spy for akatsuki but we all know after the "Kabuto backstory" chapters that he was a very good double agent, so he was working for Oro the whole time, Tobi knew this and let it continue knowing that Kabuto has the best chances of learning the Edo Tensei from him.Fast forward, Tobi/Izuna has taken the eyes back from the deceased nagato. Kept 1 in his eye socket and the other in "storage" (We've all seen he has a vast storage of eyes before he transplanted itachis into sasuke) and knows that his brother is back as an eternal edo. And they can work together again both with rinnegan and all the biju as one immense Jubi. Tobi is not stupid, the infinite Tsumoyoki is not his real goal, his real goal is to be the elite duo of the past Madara and Izuna Uchiha WITH rinnegans both AND the jubi!
This is why Madara was playing with the kages, his real intent was to get the nine tails which he says here.
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Opinions?
Henchman24
Active member
Tobi though still a mystery has given many clues to his identity. A lot of me believes that Kakashi and Tobi are connected. There is only a little bit of evidence to support the Obito theory.
What Tobi says to him there just gets to me. It takes me back to Kakashi Gaiden. Kakashi and Obito get into an argument and Minato steps in and settles it. I am unsure which translations are better but....
What Minato says to him is interesting. Mostly the reference to becoming weak. Kakashi also would say things of similar manner to Obito. They were rivals after all.
The anime translation is a bit different but gets across the same message. Episode 119.
Minato says "There's no way dust can get into your eyes when you have goggles on. If you're going to advocate self control, don't just mouth the words. Act strong too."
Think of this moment when reading what Tobi says to Kakashi. It's interesting. Not to mention the similarities between Tobi's space time jutsu and Kakashi's Kamui.
And then this.
This also shows that Tobi and Kakashi know each other. Maybe even on personal level. One could argue that Zetsu just watched every fight and relayed information about each ninja. Tobi could just be mind ****ing Kakashi but I think it is a bit closer to home. Besides we haven't heard how Rin died and that part of Kakashi's story should be really interesting seeing as it was Obito's dying request that Kakashi always keep her safe. Could also be why Tobi has so much hate now. Still leaves many questions to be answered but they will come.
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What Tobi says to him there just gets to me. It takes me back to Kakashi Gaiden. Kakashi and Obito get into an argument and Minato steps in and settles it. I am unsure which translations are better but....
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What Minato says to him is interesting. Mostly the reference to becoming weak. Kakashi also would say things of similar manner to Obito. They were rivals after all.
The anime translation is a bit different but gets across the same message. Episode 119.
Minato says "There's no way dust can get into your eyes when you have goggles on. If you're going to advocate self control, don't just mouth the words. Act strong too."
Think of this moment when reading what Tobi says to Kakashi. It's interesting. Not to mention the similarities between Tobi's space time jutsu and Kakashi's Kamui.
And then this.
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This also shows that Tobi and Kakashi know each other. Maybe even on personal level. One could argue that Zetsu just watched every fight and relayed information about each ninja. Tobi could just be mind ****ing Kakashi but I think it is a bit closer to home. Besides we haven't heard how Rin died and that part of Kakashi's story should be really interesting seeing as it was Obito's dying request that Kakashi always keep her safe. Could also be why Tobi has so much hate now. Still leaves many questions to be answered but they will come.
Why people keep saying that he's the elder son just because he knows so much about Sage and his past? Don't you realize that the story of Sage and his sons is written on the Uchiha monument and don't you remember that Tobi went to the secret room of Uchiha just before the massacre?
onimusha madara
Member
from my thread Hello this is my ramen guy theory WHO IS MORE SNEAKY THAN THE RAMEN GUY? we dont know his power level or age for one and also who knows more about the leaf than this guy he pratically knows the whole village naruto, asuma, guy, kakashi, the konoha11 anybody that has eaten ramen he could be a secret ninja and his daughter IS A ZETSU simply getting info on the leaf from the inside and explain where is the ramen guy now? Also i know something else he got smashed with the leaf explains the face he probably saw kakashi's face he's been with the village for ever serving ramen gathering intel and doing whta he does best feeding naruto? who knows where he is at? exactly who knows thus he is tobi point proven logic xD ( Dont even begin to take me seriously just enjoy my theory im tired of all the izunatics, obitards, setsuneers., its just fun to have a silly theory out there dont you think?) either this or ya know fodder ninja Q
Phoenix Wright
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I have a brain and im not in the majority, because IMO Tobi is a new character. Could be even Madara's Son for the hell of it. He can have one, right?
Future Sasuke aka Tobi
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yetanotheruser
Member
If it is written down on the Uchiha monument, how does he know about the battle of the elder and the younger son? This happened AFTER the SO6P died, so he couldn't have written it down, and he wouldn't even let them fight. And don't tell me that the story passed down. How come that Tobi is the only one who knows about it? He told us about it as if he witnessed it.
And for everyone saying it's Izuna: Izuna is the most boring character outta there. I will stop reading Naruto if it's him.
Dean-Winchester
Active member
Who is Tobi Debate. Who do you think he is? Intelligent theories only!!
So I am in the mood to have a, who really is Tobi debate? I pretty much dont want to have just long comments about who eerubody really thinks he is, but what I want to do is write a few comments about who inthink it is and then if any ody can, i want them to disprove my theories or if they have a guess on who sltheybthink he is, I will try to disprove their theory. There are to many theories out there about certain characters and people just guve half baked explanations about their theory. Any theory is welcomed, but please have logical reasoning to back it up please. So here it goes.
I believe Tobi is actually Kagami Uchiha.
Reason 1. So we all basically have come to the conclusion that Tobi is an Uchiha, he has never denied not being one. If you look in to Tobis eyes in the Manga and in the Anime, and if you read Narutopedia you never once see Tobi with another Sharingan other than the three tomoe sharingan, (except for when he implants the Rinnegan in his left eye) which is the highest level Sharingan before you get the Mangekyo Sharingan. So now that we know that we can then check off any Uchiha who has had the MS, so that checks off Izuna Uchiha and Madara Uchiha.
2. Now this reason isn't iron clad, but if you lOok at the fight with Tobi and Konan when he has half his mask blown off, look at his eyebrows and his hair. TOBIS EYEBROW are slanted down from left to right, and has a very thin short line slanting up at 90 degrees. Then if you watch the episode where Danzo is about to die by Sasuke. Danzo has a flashback, this flashback shows when Danzo was young with his comrades , which included Tobirama Senju( the second Hokage), the third Hokage, Kagami Uchiha, and a few other leaf ninja. You see Kagami's face right there and his hair is the same color, his eyebrows are very distinct and not many people have the same style eyebrows, hair color and, hair cut. Also take a look at the way his facial expressions look when you see Kagami. You can sometimes read a person by looking into their eyes and Tobi has the Same look.
3. I have a lot more reasons why i think its Kagami, but The final reasoning I am gonna give, because it would take too long, is so there are only two users of the Space-time Jutsu( other than Tobi) an those users are Minato Namikaze, and Tobirama Senju. So This since Minato fought Tobi it's likely that he didn't learn it from him, so that I ky leads Tobirama Senju. Senju could have very easily taught this technique to one of his students. So Tobirama had to of taught the Space Time Jutsu to one of his teammates and if you look at his squad there is only one person to fit the description of Tobi, who is not already known to be dead or someone else and that is Kagami. Kagami was also a great student of Tobirama Senju, and since we have seen it in the past that Kishimotto like to use students surpassing their teachers such as Minato and Jiraiya, Jiraiya and Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi, Lee and guy sensei, Asuma and shikamura, Etc. it only makes sense that Tobi is going to be a student of a powerful teacher and what better than a Kage being a teacher. And look at the Name. Tobirama Senju, if you take the first part of his name you get Tobi.
Lastly. Tobirama Senju was the creator of the resurrection jutsu that kabuto is using right now. So it just all seems to fit like a puzzle very well. Tobirama Senju's fellow student Kagami took upon his Senseis name, is working with a person (Kabuto) who is using his masters Forbidden Jutsu, and also sense more than likely Tobi had to of learned his Space- Time Jutsu from someone and the only conclusion would be from Tobirama Senju sense he was very skilled in this Jutsu.
Let me know if anybody has any other Theories about who they believe is Tobi or if anybody can give me reason for why my reasoning behind me thinking Kagami is flawed. I just kind of want to make this a game in a way to see who can back up their theories behind who they think is Tobi better. So give me some feedback please. Lol
So I am in the mood to have a, who really is Tobi debate? I pretty much dont want to have just long comments about who eerubody really thinks he is, but what I want to do is write a few comments about who inthink it is and then if any ody can, i want them to disprove my theories or if they have a guess on who sltheybthink he is, I will try to disprove their theory. There are to many theories out there about certain characters and people just guve half baked explanations about their theory. Any theory is welcomed, but please have logical reasoning to back it up please. So here it goes.
I believe Tobi is actually Kagami Uchiha.
Reason 1. So we all basically have come to the conclusion that Tobi is an Uchiha, he has never denied not being one. If you look in to Tobis eyes in the Manga and in the Anime, and if you read Narutopedia you never once see Tobi with another Sharingan other than the three tomoe sharingan, (except for when he implants the Rinnegan in his left eye) which is the highest level Sharingan before you get the Mangekyo Sharingan. So now that we know that we can then check off any Uchiha who has had the MS, so that checks off Izuna Uchiha and Madara Uchiha.
2. Now this reason isn't iron clad, but if you lOok at the fight with Tobi and Konan when he has half his mask blown off, look at his eyebrows and his hair. TOBIS EYEBROW are slanted down from left to right, and has a very thin short line slanting up at 90 degrees. Then if you watch the episode where Danzo is about to die by Sasuke. Danzo has a flashback, this flashback shows when Danzo was young with his comrades , which included Tobirama Senju( the second Hokage), the third Hokage, Kagami Uchiha, and a few other leaf ninja. You see Kagami's face right there and his hair is the same color, his eyebrows are very distinct and not many people have the same style eyebrows, hair color and, hair cut. Also take a look at the way his facial expressions look when you see Kagami. You can sometimes read a person by looking into their eyes and Tobi has the Same look.
3. I have a lot more reasons why i think its Kagami, but The final reasoning I am gonna give, because it would take too long, is so there are only two users of the Space-time Jutsu( other than Tobi) an those users are Minato Namikaze, and Tobirama Senju. So This since Minato fought Tobi it's likely that he didn't learn it from him, so that I ky leads Tobirama Senju. Senju could have very easily taught this technique to one of his students. So Tobirama had to of taught the Space Time Jutsu to one of his teammates and if you look at his squad there is only one person to fit the description of Tobi, who is not already known to be dead or someone else and that is Kagami. Kagami was also a great student of Tobirama Senju, and since we have seen it in the past that Kishimotto like to use students surpassing their teachers such as Minato and Jiraiya, Jiraiya and Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi, Lee and guy sensei, Asuma and shikamura, Etc. it only makes sense that Tobi is going to be a student of a powerful teacher and what better than a Kage being a teacher. And look at the Name. Tobirama Senju, if you take the first part of his name you get Tobi.
Lastly. Tobirama Senju was the creator of the resurrection jutsu that kabuto is using right now. So it just all seems to fit like a puzzle very well. Tobirama Senju's fellow student Kagami took upon his Senseis name, is working with a person (Kabuto) who is using his masters Forbidden Jutsu, and also sense more than likely Tobi had to of learned his Space- Time Jutsu from someone and the only conclusion would be from Tobirama Senju sense he was very skilled in this Jutsu.
Let me know if anybody has any other Theories about who they believe is Tobi or if anybody can give me reason for why my reasoning behind me thinking Kagami is flawed. I just kind of want to make this a game in a way to see who can back up their theories behind who they think is Tobi better. So give me some feedback please. Lol
kyuubisennin
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King Cobra
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Re: Who is Tobi Debate. Who do you think he is? Intelligent theories only!!
Makes since good theory but since opinions are welcome in a debate im sticking with izuna.....but explain to me more how's is izuna out of picture just because of rinnegan?
Makes since good theory but since opinions are welcome in a debate im sticking with izuna.....but explain to me more how's is izuna out of picture just because of rinnegan?
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