[Discussion] Religious effects.

[Avani]

*Joins the frey with oldest university claims*

Nalanda.

Nālandā was an ancient center of higher learning in Bihar, India.

The site of Nalanda is located in the Indian state of Bihar, about 88 kilometers south east of Patna, and was a Buddhist center of learning from the fifth or sixth century CE to 1197 CE. It has been called "one of the first great universities in recorded history".

Nalanda flourished between the reign of the Śakrāditya (whose identity is uncertain and who might have been either Kumara Gupta I or Kumara Gupta II) and 1197 CE, supported by patronage from the Hindu Gupta rulers as well as Buddhist emperors like Harsha and later emperors from the Pala Empire.

The complex was built with red bricks and its ruins occupy an area of 14 hectares. At its peak, the university attracted scholars and students from as far away as Tibet, China, Greece, and Persia.

Nalanda was ransacked and destroyed by Turkic Muslim invaders under Bakhtiyar Khilji in 1193.
The great library of Nalanda University was so vast that it is reported to have burned for three months after the invaders set fire to it, ransacked and destroyed the monasteries, and drove the monks from the site.

In 2006, Singapore, China, India, Japan, and other nations, announced a proposed plan to restore and revive the ancient site as Nalanda International University.

Takshshila or Taxila as well , Though some scholars do not put it in category of modern Universities as it was more based on older traditional way of teaching.


I think the religions are best suited for the land they originate in. The problems arise when people try to take ideas of their native place and try to impose it on others. Because it is not only about their perception of god- the local customs, traditions, cultural values, history all infulence our beliefs and vice versa. In short it affects almost all fields of our daily life whether we believe in god himself or not and that's why so many conflicts arise.

 

[Maderator]

I personally am not religious, but i have no contempt at all for those who are.

The way i see it religion is just a projection of the things that we already internally believe, which is why religious people often see their faith as self evident. As what they are believing in simply reaffirms what they intrinsically desire. Stuff like the afterlife is more about what we really want from life, than what the God or Gods promise us.

The fact that religion is an extension of what we already believe also supports why religion spreads in the first place, because we as humans have a need to reaffirm our beliefs with evidence, whether divine or physical.

It is because of this that i dont believe that religion changes the person, rather the person changes their religion to match them. It is the manipulation of others through religion that causes people to change in ways that we often perceive to be the hand of religion.

Also to me, the intelligence of a religious person is no different to that of a non-religious person, but i am also the sort of person who internally believes that everyone is of equal intelligence. Which is a fantasy to many but on the other hand you could say its my religion

 

[Pavoneo]

Umm, I don't know what the first university was so I'll stay out of that discussion >.>

I personally am not religious, but i have no contempt at all for those who are.

The way i see it religion is just a projection of the things that we already internally believe, which is why religious people often see their faith as self evident. As what they are believing in simply reaffirms what they intrinsically desire. Stuff like the afterlife is more about what we really want from life, than what the God or Gods promise us.

The fact that religion is an extension of what we already believe also supports why religion spreads in the first place, because we as humans have a need to reaffirm our beliefs with evidence, whether divine or physical.

It is because of this that i dont believe that religion changes the person, rather the person changes their religion to match them. It is the manipulation of others through religion that causes people to change in ways that we often perceive to be the hand of religion.

Also to me, the intelligence of a religious person is no different to that of a non-religious person, but i am also the sort of person who internally believes that everyone is of equal intelligence. Which is a fantasy to many but on the other hand you could say its my religion

Loved that last paragraph^^. But anyways, I'll have to disagree with you, religion does change people. If people change their religion to fit them wouldn't people be switching religions all the time trying to find a religion that's perfect for them. An effect of what religion does is that it (weird wording, sorry :s) changes the way you see everything. Take Christianity vs. Atheist for example (only two religions I know somewhat well D: ) the two people view things very differently.

For example, let's say there's a mass genocide. Christians would most likely say that it was Gods intention for this to happen and it's all apart of his plan. Meanwhile, Atheists would most likely say that the leader of said mass genocide was most likely mentally unstable due to an event that occurred in his past which made him think that this mass genocide was morally correct (I won't get into this xD).

The views can shrink down to minor events. For example, when you wake up in the morning. I always hear people say "Don't forget to pray today, because God didn't forget to wake you up this morning" meanwhile and Atheist would look at it from a different perspective. He or she would most likely say that they woke up in the morning because of a sudden adrenaline rush due to ..(forgot the exact science D: ) I think two proteins clashing against each other. (That's probably wrong, but I hope you're getting my point).

 

[TheItachiUchiha]

Wow good points guys. Here's my thoughts

In this discussion I will use Christianity as the example for religion when I compare religious with non religious. No specific reason/disrespect to that religion, just using it because most people know the concepts of it and I don't know enough about any other religion to use it as an example. For non-religious I will use Atheism.

Whether you are religious or not religious there are pros and cons as to how it affects intelligence, behavior,etc. As an atheist the thing I hate to see restricted is intelligence (mostly having to do with science). As for behavior, there are Religious people/Christians(example) that are great people by following their guidelines,etc. On the other hand there are some that are so out of line but I'm not gonna get in to that right now. Now same with non-religious/Atheists(example), some of them have no morals because they aren't afraid of hell. But lots of us (like myself) have lots of morals and we are good people by following our own guidelines. What I'm trying to say is that their is a posotive and a negative to everything.

 

[MNU]

:shrug:Im not religious but i believe their is a higher power somehow and IMO no disrespect i don't like religion i think it's a way of keeping the masses obedient and ignorant in order to control them and benefit from it. I've noticed people who don't believe in religion act a more mature way and don't do negative stuff that much, maybe because it's like feeling you have permission just because you can ask for forgiveness who knows :shrug: this just what i think and of course there's awesome people and not so awesome people in both sides and thats the way i feel "i just like to try and stay open minded and religion seems that it tends to take things more literal" :scorps:

 

[-Ibrahim-]

Aight, heres my take on it.

Its ok to practice a religion as long as you keep it to your self & not force it on others. I'm Muslim but my practice's are to me. I don't go around trying to convert or even argue w/ ppl about it.

Another thing, some religious ppl need to stop trying to be perfect. I do the basics but I don't do much. Alot of the super religious people usually are hypocrites. So don't take it so seriously.

If you try to do it all your gunna fail. If all religious people kept there religion to themselves there wouldn't be as much problems in the world. If someone disses your religion , WHO CARES.. if you truely believe than you wouldn't pay attention to that.

Thats how my dad raised me. My dad doesn't have a beard, & he dresses normal. But that doesn't mean hes bad, it means he knows what hes doing, he honest as hell & is a better Muslim than most of the super try hards at the Mosque.

 

[MNU]

Aight, heres my take on it.

Its ok to practice a religion as long as you keep it to your self & not force it on others. I'm Muslim but my practice's are to me. I don't go around trying to convert or even argue w/ ppl about it.

Another thing, some religious ppl need to stop trying to be perfect. I do the basics but I don't do much. Alot of the super religious people usually are hypocrites. So don't take it so seriously.

If you try to do it all your gunna fail. If all religious people kept there religion to themselves there wouldn't be as much problems in the world. If someone disses your religion , WHO CARES.. if you truely believe than you wouldn't pay attention to that.

Thats how my dad raised me. My dad doesn't have a beard, & he dresses normal. But that doesn't mean hes bad, it means he knows what hes doing, he honest as hell & is a better Muslim than most of the super try hards at the Mosque.

This is what i love to see people who are religious but dont hate and stuff like that i mean all my family is religious i just don't like it when i see hypocritical stuff and things like that

 

[Blutengel]

Mmm, a good way to put it. I've met some really rude religious people, I've asked someone why they were mad once.. They said because there's so many people trying to disprove god and said they're all stupid and don't know what they're talking about. Then he pushed me out of the way and stormed off ._. changed how I viewed quite a few things. Obviously I won't judge the majority based on a minority but I suppose it's just food for thought.

[EDIT]

Ehh, I could say a few things about this. Times have definitely changed since the Bible was made, yet people still feel like following every rule to the book. People tend to ignore things they don't like in the bible, for example you're not supposed to shave and you can never even "look" at a women (check her out) yet people feel like doing both of those then go to a rally and protest gays are hated by god and are going to hell. Hypocrites I tell you D: Hypocrites!

Priests are not allowed to shave, though the Bible mentions nothing of cutting hair anywhere on your body (except for some forbidden haircuts). The fact that hair grows back was rendered as a sign that we are meant to cut it if it makes us uncomfortable.
Clueless hypocrite.

 

[-Ibrahim-]

This is what i love to see people who are religious but dont hate and stuff like that i mean all my family is religious i just don't like it when i see hypocritical stuff and things like that

Yup, like its all just do your thing but don't annoy people who don't believe in what you believe. xD

 

[MNU]

Yup, like its all just do your thing but don't annoy people who don't believe in what you believe. xD

Exactly

 

[NarutoKage2]

Pointless thread, i'm afraid.

Its false, as stated by some that religion claims to know all the answers while humanism does't, atheism or disbelief also makes positive claims about this life being the only life which are equally un-testable and therefore, reflect a faith position as well. Agnosticsm is a different case, though but that's a lengthy debate.

The recent culture wars in the west are entirely a result of the aftermath of 9/11, where religion got all the blame for spreading violence, hatred etc. What these 'champions of humanity' called the new age atheists don't see, is that Stalin and the Soviet Union with its state atheism killed off more people in the gulags than all of the world's religions combined have in the last 500 years.

Idiots like Dawkins(exposed thoroughly by John Lennox in a debate) don't see how hypocritical their own position is. They don't advocate Darwinian principles in society, yet they believe them to be the sole instrument in nature, i.e some races are going to survive amongst us while others will die out and be dominated by these 'superior races' who may later possibly evolve into a new species. I have nothing against the theory of evolution, but i don't think its the only principle in nature.

 

[mcchikeneater]

Religion pretty much halts intelligence. It can provide structure for some people who are straying down the wrong path, though a lot of religion rules by fear, telling people that if they dont do this or if they do that, they are doomed to hell, which scares people into proper behavior. While the end results can be good, is that really the right way to change someones behavior? And the fact that some religions try to halt scientific progress and technological advancements, and tell people what freedoms they can and cant have, I think it is of a too oppressive nature, and that should only be used in moderation, by people who choose to believe, not people who are told they have to believe.

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[Pavoneo]

Priests are not allowed to shave, though the Bible mentions nothing of cutting hair anywhere on your body (except for some forbidden haircuts). The fact that hair grows back was rendered as a sign that we are meant to cut it if it makes us uncomfortable.
Clueless hypocrite.

Okay, no need to flip out on me and attack me. If you look further into the thread someone pointed out my mistake and we talked about it and I realized it was a misconception and apologized for using the example so foolishly. :/

 

[-God of War-]

Religion effects at people a lot. Nowadays You can't say what you really think about something, you can't say ''B--ch'' to someone who deserves to be called like that, you can't say what you feel about someone. This really bothers me. Cause some persons judge you all the time about these ''rules'' when they say ''b--ch'' to someone when they think about him/her...and they do this all the time.

 

[Maderator]

Umm, I don't know what the first university was so I'll stay out of that discussion >.>



Loved that last paragraph^^. But anyways, I'll have to disagree with you, religion does change people. If people change their religion to fit them wouldn't people be switching religions all the time trying to find a religion that's perfect for them. An effect of what religion does is that it (weird wording, sorry :s) changes the way you see everything. Take Christianity vs. Atheist for example (only two religions I know somewhat well D: ) the two people view things very differently.

For example, let's say there's a mass genocide. Christians would most likely say that it was Gods intention for this to happen and it's all apart of his plan. Meanwhile, Atheists would most likely say that the leader of said mass genocide was most likely mentally unstable due to an event that occurred in his past which made him think that this mass genocide was morally correct (I won't get into this xD).

The views can shrink down to minor events. For example, when you wake up in the morning. I always hear people say "Don't forget to pray today, because God didn't forget to wake you up this morning" meanwhile and Atheist would look at it from a different perspective. He or she would most likely say that they woke up in the morning because of a sudden adrenaline rush due to ..(forgot the exact science D: ) I think two proteins clashing against each other. (That's probably wrong, but I hope you're getting my point).

I agree with you that people would explain things differently between religions, however are they really doing anything different. They both experience the same phenomena the difference being how they explain it. Much of what you see as a different response, to me, has more to do with the religious doctrine rather than the belief system.

I do however get what you are trying to demonstrate, and i do admit that there is some parts of my theory that are hard to explain. However in my opinion i still think that a religious or non religious person will act the same way within the same environment. They may attribute things to different causes, but fundamentally they are still as equally human as each other.

 

[PhazoN]

I think our world would be a better place without religion, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Ashflura]

Whch university it would be?

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[NamikazeNagato]

I'm a muslim and being religious doesn't make you any less "scientific" than an atheist! At least for me ....

Like, I believe in the Big Bang theory and Evolution and that the Earth was developed over billions of years and stuff. But some religious people, if I may say so myself, Christains to be exact, might argue that the Earth was created a few thousand years ago.

There's nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, even if the argument of point is factual provided the response from the other person.

 

[North Kai]

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that wasnt the first university, it was some form of higher education but not an university just back then, the first form of University was in Bologna and the first universities as we know them today were from Germany (the german model I mean)

 

[Avani]

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It started as a mosque, and is not oldest but the probably among oldest of the Universities continuously working- i.e. lucky enough not to face invaders.

Nalanda was a proper university and centries older and would have been continuous if it wasnt ransacked. -it was a major center of studies but went down because of - effects of religious zeal.

It was not the first learning center destroyed in the world - Most cases such as Nalanda happen not because people hated knowledge itself but didn't want the diiferent views to exist or to challange them.

Every religion respects knowledge- theoritically. It is up to the followers to use common sense and not let themselves get blinded by their zeal.