Itachi vs Nagato.

[Vexorian]

To make things even more interesting, the argument that Itachi can just put him under Tsukiyomi and stab him during it, that is now negated.

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Draydn's post says it all. Meaning Itachi is bound by Tsukiyomi for it's entire duration, just as the target is(and there are several instances that prove this)

Besides the fact that Tsukiyomi wouldn't be a certain win anyways, people still like to think it is. Meaning, Nagato uses the Six Paths of Pain, he puts one path under the genjutsu, and the other 5 beat the piss out of him.

 

[Mark Uzumaki]

Nagato has Gedo Mazo / Thread

 

[Awkward Linguist]

:whoa:

An MS user -( amaterasu, incomplete susano, Tsukuyomi)- with high level of intelligence > A Rinnegan user + Massive chakra reserve + won about 1000+ matches + Came so close to capturing the kyubbi in his weakened state when he used lots of his chakra against Konoha and against the Galant jiraiya - while losing some of his paths + chibaku/shinra tensei, the pulling techinque, absorption, summons etc...

No, just no.

 

[Pwner10144]

itachi would most likely win.

 

[Wallcrawler]

Chibaku Tensai and Its over. Massive shinra and Its over. Human and its over.

Amatarasu absorbed by Petra. Susanoo useless when Nagato can fly, Or use Chibaku tensai. Fire style is useless, Tsyukiyomi is pointless, Nagato's Rinnegan is more advanced. He could use his summons for his sight and Nagato can easilyone shot Itachi.

 

[SilverSlick]

Why? Because he got more rinnegan manga pages?

Who's Tobi? Do you know? I am 100% sure that you don't know who Tobi is. Tobi said he gave Nagato the rinnegan. He could have lied, or maybe not. It means there is a strong chance Tobi HAD rinnegan before! So until you can back up your argument and squash the opposition (Madara and Tobi), you are not 100% correct.

Also, just a quick reminder. Probably So6p was the best, followed by his son.

You're comparing hype(Tobi, Madara) to feats(Nagato) so until Tobi uses Rinnegan to its max potential like Nagato did, don't even come to me saying that I need to back up my argument. Just because Tobi could defeat Nagato in fight, doesn't mean he is more adept at using the Rinnegan. Learn the difference.

We don't even know if Tobi had the Rinnegan prior to Nagato being born. Why would he even give it to him? Why not keep it for himself? The fact that you even brought up Madara, who has 0, I repeat, 0 feats with the Rinnegan was ****ing retarded. You can't just bring someone with hype and compare him to someone with feats.

Another thing, saying that I'm not 100% correct was a baseless statement when you yourself didn't even bring an argument worth a damn to the table. You fail sir. So until you can prove to me that 1. Tobi had the Rinnegan before and gave it to Nagato and 2. Tobi is more adept at using it than Nagato, who might I remind you grew with the damn thing, don't even respond to this post.

 

[FizzyDrink]

Ok, I'll simplify things for you Itachi believers. This is why Nagato wins.

Itachi has Tsukiyomi? Nagato is a sensor. He closes his eyes, fights by sensing. Or flies out of reach of eye contact. Or uses his summons in shared vision, and doesn't let Itachi genjutsu them by constantly attacking him and forcing him to pay attention elsewhere.

Itachi has Amaterasu? Nagato has Preta Path.

Itachi has Susanoo with Yata Mirror, and Sword of Totsuka? Nagato can fly out of reach of the sword (the only reason he didn't was the distraction of the dust), and Yata Mirror isn't 360 degrees of protection, so part of Susanoo can be crushed by Chibaku Tensei. And if you think Itachi can destroy Chibaku tensei, you are really clutching at straws. And even if he COULD, he still can't kill Nagato. Eventually, Nagato with his superior stamina would outlast Itachi.

There are you're counters, and I haven't even gone into all of Nagato's techniques.

Also, I get the feeling that genjutsu against shared vision wouldn't work. If it could, than Itachi could have EASILY done that instead of taking out the eyes of Nagato's summons with Kunai and Shuriken. The fact that he didn't in that battle at least means that he wouldn't in a theoretical battle because he wouldn't think of it. Maybe eye genjutsu only works against the one thing that is being stared into, the thing in which the eye is DIRECTLY connected to the brain, rather than by chakra receptors.

 

[Vexorian]

Ok, I'll simplify things for you Itachi believers. This is why Nagato wins.

Itachi has Tsukiyomi? Nagato is a sensor. He closes his eyes, fights by sensing. Or flies out of reach of eye contact. Or uses his summons in shared vision, and doesn't let Itachi genjutsu them by constantly attacking him and forcing him to pay attention elsewhere.

Itachi has Amaterasu? Nagato has Preta Path.

Itachi has Susanoo with Yata Mirror, and Sword of Totsuka? Nagato can fly out of reach of the sword (the only reason he didn't was the distraction of the dust), and Yata Mirror isn't 360 degrees of protection, so part of Susanoo can be crushed by Chibaku Tensei. And if you think Itachi can destroy Chibaku tensei, you are really clutching at straws. And even if he COULD, he still can't kill Nagato. Eventually, Nagato with his superior stamina would outlast Itachi.

There are you're counters, and I haven't even gone into all of Nagato's techniques.

Also, I get the feeling that genjutsu against shared vision wouldn't work. If it could, than Itachi could have EASILY done that instead of taking out the eyes of Nagato's summons with Kunai and Shuriken. The fact that he didn't in that battle at least means that he wouldn't in a theoretical battle because he wouldn't think of it. Maybe eye genjutsu only works against the one thing that is being stared into, the thing in which the eye is DIRECTLY connected to the brain, rather than by chakra receptors.

That was my impression all along. Ocular genjutsu is single target, which is why Jiraiya's worked well because it was an audio paralysis type.

 

[khaydz5]

How did they "perfectly counter" Nagato? I'm pretty sure it was Naruto and Bee vs Nagato and Itachi for a while, after which Itachi switched sides and they won the fight. If Kakashi and Gai and Tsunade all contribute with 1 or 2 jutsu to defeat Konohamaru, does it mean that Konohamaru would own each of them individually? No. And you don't have any proof that Itachi would have had to break a sweat against Nagato so stop calling it "fact". And you're asking me how Itachi can counter CT the same way I can say: how can Nagato counter Tsukyiomi?

Here the bottom line: Both of them have jutsu and skill that can end the match within 1 minute. BOTH OF THEM HAVE A CHANCE OF WINNING. If you fail to agree with this then you certainly are a fanboy, because there's no possible scenario in which Nagato is 100% winning against Itachi, not ever. The most we can debate is who would win most of the times if they were to fight. Doesn't matter if you agree or not really, because you can hold on to your logic forever just to make your favorite character more than he is...I don't care.

Good day.

1. if you understand what I meant I actually explained why did I say its a "perfect counter".

2. kakashi gai and tsunade are all stronger than konohamaru, you have a fail comparison there.

3. the fact that itachi asked help to destroy CT is a PROOF that he can't do it on his own...hmmm, still don't want to answer how will itachi counter CT by himself huh??

4. nagato countering tsukuyomi,or genjutsu in general is as easy as what kabuto did, with the help of his summons. nagato's a sensor he can close his eyes use rain tiger jutsu to perfectly know itachi's location and/or uses summons for shared vision. easy as pie.

5. I never said itachi doesn't have chance against nagato, If you read back my first post I said nagato has a higher chance.. Im actually giving it 70/30 in favor of nagato.

the only time itachi will have no chance at all is if nagato is using 6 paths of pain. that's 100% win for nagato.

 

[Anub]

:whoa:

An MS user -( amaterasu, incomplete susano, Tsukuyomi)- with high level of intelligence > A Rinnegan user + Massive chakra reserve + won about 1000+ matches + Came so close to capturing the kyubbi in his weakened state when he used lots of his chakra against Konoha and against the Galant jiraiya - while losing some of his paths + chibaku/shinra tensei, the pulling techinque, absorption, summons etc...

No, just no.

That alone shows you're inclined towards Nagato and decided he wins before giving the opposition a chance. According to you itachi has 3 skills and is smart... nice.

You're comparing hype(Tobi, Madara) to feats(Nagato) so until Tobi uses Rinnegan to its max potential like Nagato did, don't even come to me saying that I need to back up my argument. Just because Tobi could defeat Nagato in fight, doesn't mean he is more adept at using the Rinnegan. Learn the difference.

We don't even know if Tobi had the Rinnegan prior to Nagato being born. Why would he even give it to him? Why not keep it for himself? The fact that you even brought up Madara, who has 0, I repeat, 0 feats with the Rinnegan was ****ing retarded. You can't just bring someone with hype and compare him to someone with feats.

Another thing, saying that I'm not 100% correct was a baseless statement when you yourself didn't even bring an argument worth a damn to the table. You fail sir. So until you can prove to me that 1. Tobi had the Rinnegan before and gave it to Nagato and 2. Tobi is more adept at using it than Nagato, who might I remind you grew with the damn thing, don't even respond to this post.

Getting a bit angry there? It's true we don't know if Tobi had rinnegan prior to Nagato's birth, but it is a possibility, meaning that no one can say it's a FACT when there isn't a clear proof of it. Also, I was not even arguing the fact that TOBI or MADARA are better rinnegan users, I was was arguing that we don't know if Nagato is the best! Learn the difference please and don't swear in your posts if you want people to treat you with respect. Also it's nice to respect some other opinions, not climb on your nagato-horse and ride it no matter what. I dare you demonstrate that Nagato can 100% beat Itachi and if you convince me I will ban myself from the NB forums.

Also btw, if you want I can be petty. So6P is the best rinnegan user, followed by his son. Dare to prove me wrong.

1. if you understand what I meant I actually explained why did I say its a "perfect counter".

2. kakashi gai and tsunade are all stronger than konohamaru, you have a fail comparison there.

3. the fact that itachi asked help to destroy CT is a PROOF that he can't do it on his own...hmmm, still don't want to answer how will itachi counter CT by himself huh??

4. nagato countering tsukuyomi,or genjutsu in general is as easy as what kabuto did, with the help of his summons. nagato's a sensor he can close his eyes use rain tiger jutsu to perfectly know itachi's location and/or uses summons for shared vision. easy as pie.

5. I never said itachi doesn't have chance against nagato, If you read back my first post I said nagato has a higher chance.. Im actually giving it 70/30 in favor of nagato.

the only time itachi will have no chance at all is if nagato is using 6 paths of pain. that's 100% win for nagato.

1. perhaps I didn't, thus the reply. I will look over it again.

2. I was making a highly obvious comparison just to prove a point.

3. No necessarily. I look at it like this: Itachi is smart... if he's got 2 strong shinobi next to him, why risk anything, when they can put an end to the opposition. I know you can agree with me on this one. Why go 1on1 when you can go 3on1...doesn't take Itachi-brains to create that scenario. About Itachi countering CT. I can say Susanoo. The Yata mirror is said to repel all attacks and also to change shape depending on the size of the attack (I'm sure I've read this somewhere. let me know if you need a source). Also a good counter would simply be to use genjutsu prior to that. For example I don't think Itachi has a counter for Deidara ultimate jutsu, but he can still win the fight.

4. Kabuto didn't really counter genjutsu did he? He got caught in one. Also, Nagato has that risk of being caught in izanami, because he suffers from the same case of over-confident-false-belief like Kabuto does. Also, Nagato's weakness seems to be genjutsu. How do I figure? Jirayia was never too strong in genjutsu + Nagato was trapped in one.

5. I was giving it 60-40 to Itachi. I used to think it was a 55-45 before but that izanami pumped Itachi a bit.

Also not sure about the 6 paths statement. It's true that Nagato himself is an easier target for Itachi (though some people seem to thing Nagato >>>>>>>>>> 6 Paths in all situations), but certainly if would be more troublesome for Itachi when going up against all the paths. But 100% win for Nagato is stretching it waaaaaaaay too much isn't it?

+rep btw to you. I stated my reason in the rep.

Ok, I'll simplify things for you Itachi believers. This is why Nagato wins.

Itachi has Tsukiyomi? Nagato is a sensor. He closes his eyes, fights by sensing. Or flies out of reach of eye contact. Or uses his summons in shared vision, and doesn't let Itachi genjutsu them by constantly attacking him and forcing him to pay attention elsewhere.

Itachi has Amaterasu? Nagato has Preta Path.

Itachi has Susanoo with Yata Mirror, and Sword of Totsuka? Nagato can fly out of reach of the sword (the only reason he didn't was the distraction of the dust), and Yata Mirror isn't 360 degrees of protection, so part of Susanoo can be crushed by Chibaku Tensei. And if you think Itachi can destroy Chibaku tensei, you are really clutching at straws. And even if he COULD, he still can't kill Nagato. Eventually, Nagato with his superior stamina would outlast Itachi.

There are you're counters, and I haven't even gone into all of Nagato's techniques.

Also, I get the feeling that genjutsu against shared vision wouldn't work. If it could, than Itachi could have EASILY done that instead of taking out the eyes of Nagato's summons with Kunai and Shuriken. The fact that he didn't in that battle at least means that he wouldn't in a theoretical battle because he wouldn't think of it. Maybe eye genjutsu only works against the one thing that is being stared into, the thing in which the eye is DIRECTLY connected to the brain, rather than by chakra receptors.

Without trying to get into yet another 10 page argument for these two (like I used to before it was cool lol) , I need to say that those arguments you've stated are 100% correct and accurate. BUT: it doesn't mean it will work like that. A fight has skill+luck+jutsu+intelligence+terrain+etc involved. Just pointing out that Nagato has stuff to counter the other guy isn't enough proof to demonstrate he can win. I can pick some jutsus from Nagato and give them counters. That doesn't mean Itachi is winning just because he's got counters for soem jutsu. Also y u no counter izanami ? I hope we don't get into a further argument about this I keep trying to insist that the fight can go either way but people refuse to believe that. Itachi has a chance of winning. I don't care how much o a chance because that's up to us to debate, but for whoever says he doesn't, they are wrong. Had to be said.

btw i have to spread some rep before giving it to you, but you get a rep in my book either way. It's not just from this post, but a sum of them.

 

[Vexorian]

That alone shows you're inclined towards Nagato and decided he wins before giving the opposition a chance. According to you itachi has 3 skills and is smart... nice.



Getting a bit angry there? It's true we don't know if Tobi had rinnegan prior to Nagato's birth, but it is a possibility, meaning that no one can say it's a FACT when there isn't a clear proof of it. Also, I was not even arguing the fact that TOBI or MADARA are better rinnegan users, I was was arguing that we don't know if Nagato is the best! Learn the difference please and don't swear in your posts if you want people to treat you with respect. Also it's nice to respect some other opinions, not climb on your nagato-horse and ride it no matter what. I dare you demonstrate that Nagato can 100% beat Itachi and if you convince me I will ban myself from the NB forums.

Also btw, if you want I can be petty. So6P is the best rinnegan user, followed by his son. Dare to prove me wrong.



1. perhaps I didn't, thus the reply. I will look over it again.

2. I was making a highly obvious comparison just to prove a point.

3. No necessarily. I look at it like this: Itachi is smart... if he's got 2 strong shinobi next to him, why risk anything, when they can put an end to the opposition. I know you can agree with me on this one. Why go 1on1 when you can go 3on1...doesn't take Itachi-brains to create that scenario. About Itachi countering CT. I can say Susanoo. The Yata mirror is said to repel all attacks and also to change shape depending on the size of the attack (I'm sure I've read this somewhere. let me know if you need a source). Also a good counter would simply be to use genjutsu prior to that. For example I don't think Itachi has a counter for Deidara ultimate jutsu, but he can still win the fight.

4. Kabuto didn't really counter genjutsu did he? He got caught in one. Also, Nagato has that risk of being caught in izanami, because he suffers from the same case of over-confident-false-belief like Kabuto does. Also, Nagato's weakness seems to be genjutsu. How do I figure? Jirayia was never too strong in genjutsu + Nagato was trapped in one.

5. I was giving it 60-40 to Itachi. I used to think it was a 55-45 before but that izanami pumped Itachi a bit.

Also not sure about the 6 paths statement. It's true that Nagato himself is an easier target for Itachi (though some people seem to thing Nagato >>>>>>>>>> 6 Paths in all situations), but certainly if would be more troublesome for Itachi when going up against all the paths. But 100% win for Nagato is stretching it waaaaaaaay too much isn't it?

+rep btw to you. I stated my reason in the rep.



Without trying to get into yet another 10 page argument for these two (like I used to before it was cool lol) , I need to say that those arguments you've stated are 100% correct and accurate. BUT: it doesn't mean it will work like that. A fight has skill+luck+jutsu+intelligence+terrain+etc involved. Just pointing out that Nagato has stuff to counter the other guy isn't enough proof to demonstrate he can win. I can pick some jutsus from Nagato and give them counters. That doesn't mean Itachi is winning just because he's got counters for soem jutsu. Also y u no counter izanami ? I hope we don't get into a further argument about this I keep trying to insist that the fight can go either way but people refuse to believe that. Itachi has a chance of winning. I don't care how much o a chance because that's up to us to debate, but for whoever says he doesn't, they are wrong. Had to be said.

btw i have to spread some rep before giving it to you, but you get a rep in my book either way. It's not just from this post, but a sum of them.

It was stated by Itachi that Izanami is only useful in certain circumstances. Nagato doesn't fit those requirements, as he was never trying to be anybody but himself. He may have had influences, but unlike Kabuto he wasn't remodeling his appearance and his mind to match Yahiko/Jiraiya. Therefore Izanami is worse than useless.

 

[Joki]

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Itachi's dead body is inside there. Although it's not a body, just like a pile of mush.

 

[SilverSlick]

That alone shows you're inclined towards Nagato and decided he wins before giving the opposition a chance. According to you itachi has 3 skills and is smart... nice.



Getting a bit angry there? It's true we don't know if Tobi had rinnegan prior to Nagato's birth, but it is a possibility, meaning that no one can say it's a FACT when there isn't a clear proof of it. Also, I was not even arguing the fact that TOBI or MADARA are better rinnegan users, I was was arguing that we don't know if Nagato is the best! Learn the difference please and don't swear in your posts if you want people to treat you with respect. Also it's nice to respect some other opinions, not climb on your nagato-horse and ride it no matter what. I dare you demonstrate that Nagato can 100% beat Itachi and if you convince me I will ban myself from the NB forums.

Also btw, if you want I can be petty. So6P is the best rinnegan user, followed by his son. Dare to prove me wrong.



1. perhaps I didn't, thus the reply. I will look over it again.

2. I was making a highly obvious comparison just to prove a point.

3. No necessarily. I look at it like this: Itachi is smart... if he's got 2 strong shinobi next to him, why risk anything, when they can put an end to the opposition. I know you can agree with me on this one. Why go 1on1 when you can go 3on1...doesn't take Itachi-brains to create that scenario. About Itachi countering CT. I can say Susanoo. The Yata mirror is said to repel all attacks and also to change shape depending on the size of the attack (I'm sure I've read this somewhere. let me know if you need a source). Also a good counter would simply be to use genjutsu prior to that. For example I don't think Itachi has a counter for Deidara ultimate jutsu, but he can still win the fight.

4. Kabuto didn't really counter genjutsu did he? He got caught in one. Also, Nagato has that risk of being caught in izanami, because he suffers from the same case of over-confident-false-belief like Kabuto does. Also, Nagato's weakness seems to be genjutsu. How do I figure? Jirayia was never too strong in genjutsu + Nagato was trapped in one.

5. I was giving it 60-40 to Itachi. I used to think it was a 55-45 before but that izanami pumped Itachi a bit.

Also not sure about the 6 paths statement. It's true that Nagato himself is an easier target for Itachi (though some people seem to thing Nagato >>>>>>>>>> 6 Paths in all situations), but certainly if would be more troublesome for Itachi when going up against all the paths. But 100% win for Nagato is stretching it waaaaaaaay too much isn't it?

+rep btw to you. I stated my reason in the rep.



Without trying to get into yet another 10 page argument for these two (like I used to before it was cool lol) , I need to say that those arguments you've stated are 100% correct and accurate. BUT: it doesn't mean it will work like that. A fight has skill+luck+jutsu+intelligence+terrain+etc involved. Just pointing out that Nagato has stuff to counter the other guy isn't enough proof to demonstrate he can win. I can pick some jutsus from Nagato and give them counters. That doesn't mean Itachi is winning just because he's got counters for soem jutsu. Also y u no counter izanami ? I hope we don't get into a further argument about this I keep trying to insist that the fight can go either way but people refuse to believe that. Itachi has a chance of winning. I don't care how much o a chance because that's up to us to debate, but for whoever says he doesn't, they are wrong. Had to be said.

btw i have to spread some rep before giving it to you, but you get a rep in my book either way. It's not just from this post, but a sum of them.

Lol, I don't care about the Sot6P or his son. You should of known that I was leaving them out for a reason. So, now tell me, what was that middle paragraph for? You were implying that Tobi was a better Rinnegan user and don't tell me you weren't because you were. Any one could tell that you were implying this. When I said Nagato was the best Rinnegan user, I meant between the 3, you should know.

Respect your opinion? What opinion were you even giving in that post exactly? I'll respect your opinion because well, its your opinion. If you think that Itachi can defeat Nagato, fine by me. Also, Nagato is not even one of my favorite characters. All I'm trying to get across is that Nagato is the best Rinnegan user based on feats. If you can prove me wrong on this, go ahead but this isn't even the topic of this thread and I guess I have to apologize for that. I'll give my opinion on who would win between Itachi and Nagato some other time though.

 

[FizzyDrink]

Without trying to get into yet another 10 page argument for these two (like I used to before it was cool lol) , I need to say that those arguments you've stated are 100% correct and accurate. BUT: it doesn't mean it will work like that. A fight has skill+luck+jutsu+intelligence+terrain+etc involved. Just pointing out that Nagato has stuff to counter the other guy isn't enough proof to demonstrate he can win. I can pick some jutsus from Nagato and give them counters. That doesn't mean Itachi is winning just because he's got counters for soem jutsu. Also y u no counter izanami ? I hope we don't get into a further argument about this I keep trying to insist that the fight can go either way but people refuse to believe that. Itachi has a chance of winning. I don't care how much o a chance because that's up to us to debate, but for whoever says he doesn't, they are wrong. Had to be said.

btw i have to spread some rep before giving it to you, but you get a rep in my book either way. It's not just from this post, but a sum of them.

I'm just stating why Nagato has the overall upper hand, since it is a fact that Nagato has a counter to many of Itachi's main jutsu, and they are counters that are easy to understand. Genjutsu is an obvious threat against an Uchiha, it's logical for Nagato to avoid it by doing any of those. Also, having Preta Path on seems to be a normality for Nagato, so with that he counters Amaterasu. Of course, at this point, you can argue all you want that he wouldn't fly away and get hit by the sword of Totsuka, but the fact of the matter is that he CAN avoid it.

And honestly, the main counter to Izanami is versatility in battle, which Nagato certainly has. If I remember correctly, the user has to replicate a sensation exactly as he felt it before, it must happen to him, and the enemy must have caused it. Considering Nagato's many different types of attacks, and the sheer destructive power of his attacks, chances are more in favor of him killing Itachi before creating a situation where he makes Itachi replicate some sensation.

And Itachi doesn't any proven counters to Nagato's techniques. Until proven otherwise, it shall take only a little less than a TBB, a rasenshuriken, and a magatama to destroy a very recently growing CT. I honestly believe the fact that a TBB, far stronger than probably 10 magatama's, not being able to destroy CT on its own basically makes it seem very unlikely that Itachi could possible counter CT. Also, Nagato's massive shinra tensei, considering what I believe the nature of it is, could be worse than CT. I believe that what happens is that Nagato focuses a ton of power on a specific point, and then used gravity to expand outwards with great power and speed. If this is correct, and he chooses the center of Itachi's Susanoo ad his point, he would certainly blow it to pieces, with Itachi inside. Even if it doesn't work like that, chances are entirely in favor of Itachi's Susanoo being almost entirely destroyed or worse, with Itachi dead.

So from my point of view, considering that Nagato DOES have counters to Itachi's main jutsu, and many are logical and almost certain, and the one jutsu he can't counter without information (Izanami) can only happen in a situation in which is contrary to Nagato's variety, Nagato would have to overall upper edge, seeing as how Itachi has far less answers to Nagato than Nagato has to Itachi.

Nagato still has Gedo Mazo which I didn't mention, as well as many other paths and chakra affinities. So yeah. Nagato COULD lose, since as you say, battles can't be predicted so easily. But overall, Itachi has more ways of losing than Nagato, so Nagato has the overall upper hand.

 

[khaydz5]

1. perhaps I didn't, thus the reply. I will look over it again.

2. I was making a highly obvious comparison just to prove a point.

3. No necessarily. I look at it like this: Itachi is smart... if he's got 2 strong shinobi next to him, why risk anything, when they can put an end to the opposition. I know you can agree with me on this one. Why go 1on1 when you can go 3on1...doesn't take Itachi-brains to create that scenario. About Itachi countering CT. I can say Susanoo. The Yata mirror is said to repel all attacks and also to change shape depending on the size of the attack (I'm sure I've read this somewhere. let me know if you need a source). Also a good counter would simply be to use genjutsu prior to that. For example I don't think Itachi has a counter for Deidara ultimate jutsu, but he can still win the fight.

4. Kabuto didn't really counter genjutsu did he? He got caught in one. Also, Nagato has that risk of being caught in izanami, because he suffers from the same case of over-confident-false-belief like Kabuto does. Also, Nagato's weakness seems to be genjutsu. How do I figure? Jirayia was never too strong in genjutsu + Nagato was trapped in one.

5. I was giving it 60-40 to Itachi. I used to think it was a 55-45 before but that izanami pumped Itachi a bit.

Also not sure about the 6 paths statement. It's true that Nagato himself is an easier target for Itachi (though some people seem to thing Nagato >>>>>>>>>> 6 Paths in all situations), but certainly if would be more troublesome for Itachi when going up against all the paths. But 100% win for Nagato is stretching it waaaaaaaay too much isn't it?

+rep btw to you. I stated my reason in the rep.

oh my... if he can block that with yata mirror he would have done it. much easier than lecturing the 2 jinchuuriki and asking them to hit it with their strongest attacks yah? a shield is a shield how would he protect himself if he'll be surrounded by boulders and crush him in every angle, doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Anub]

It was stated by Itachi that Izanami is only useful in certain circumstances. Nagato doesn't fit those requirements, as he was never trying to be anybody but himself. He may have had influences, but unlike Kabuto he wasn't remodeling his appearance and his mind to match Yahiko/Jiraiya. Therefore Izanami is worse than useless.

You may be right, but nevertheless, you may be wrong as well. Nagato was shown to be an extremist (like Kabuto) that had a flimsy belief (also like Kabuto). I would go on but I don't have that much free time sorry. It may remain unknown.

Lol, I don't care about the Sot6P or his son. You should of known that I was leaving them out for a reason. So, now tell me, what was that middle paragraph for? You were implying that Tobi was a better Rinnegan user and don't tell me you weren't because you were. Any one could tell that you were implying this. When I said Nagato was the best Rinnegan user, I meant between the 3, you should know.

Respect your opinion? What opinion were you even giving in that post exactly? I'll respect your opinion because well, its your opinion. If you think that Itachi can defeat Nagato, fine by me. Also, Nagato is not even one of my favorite characters. All I'm trying to get across is that Nagato is the best Rinnegan user based on feats. If you can prove me wrong on this, go ahead but this isn't even the topic of this thread and I guess I have to apologize for that. I'll give my opinion on who would win between Itachi and Nagato some other time though.

I think Itachi can defeat Nagato. I also think Tobi may be a better rinnegan user than Nagato, but of course there is no proof of it yet, but given how he is a main villain and the rinnegan may have been in his arsenal before the naruto series began, I think it's too early to discuss it.

I'm just stating why Nagato has the overall upper hand, since it is a fact that Nagato has a counter to many of Itachi's main jutsu, and they are counters that are easy to understand. Genjutsu is an obvious threat against an Uchiha, it's logical for Nagato to avoid it by doing any of those. Also, having Preta Path on seems to be a normality for Nagato, so with that he counters Amaterasu. Of course, at this point, you can argue all you want that he wouldn't fly away and get hit by the sword of Totsuka, but the fact of the matter is that he CAN avoid it.

And honestly, the main counter to Izanami is versatility in battle, which Nagato certainly has. If I remember correctly, the user has to replicate a sensation exactly as he felt it before, it must happen to him, and the enemy must have caused it. Considering Nagato's many different types of attacks, and the sheer destructive power of his attacks, chances are more in favor of him killing Itachi before creating a situation where he makes Itachi replicate some sensation.

And Itachi doesn't any proven counters to Nagato's techniques. Until proven otherwise, it shall take only a little less than a TBB, a rasenshuriken, and a magatama to destroy a very recently growing CT. I honestly believe the fact that a TBB, far stronger than probably 10 magatama's, not being able to destroy CT on its own basically makes it seem very unlikely that Itachi could possible counter CT. Also, Nagato's massive shinra tensei, considering what I believe the nature of it is, could be worse than CT. I believe that what happens is that Nagato focuses a ton of power on a specific point, and then used gravity to expand outwards with great power and speed. If this is correct, and he chooses the center of Itachi's Susanoo ad his point, he would certainly blow it to pieces, with Itachi inside. Even if it doesn't work like that, chances are entirely in favor of Itachi's Susanoo being almost entirely destroyed or worse, with Itachi dead.

So from my point of view, considering that Nagato DOES have counters to Itachi's main jutsu, and many are logical and almost certain, and the one jutsu he can't counter without information (Izanami) can only happen in a situation in which is contrary to Nagato's variety, Nagato would have to overall upper edge, seeing as how Itachi has far less answers to Nagato than Nagato has to Itachi.

Nagato still has Gedo Mazo which I didn't mention, as well as many other paths and chakra affinities. So yeah. Nagato COULD lose, since as you say, battles can't be predicted so easily. But overall, Itachi has more ways of losing than Nagato, so Nagato has the overall upper hand.

Fizzy my man I've read the post and as much as I agree with most of those points, you are looking at the fight from one perspective mostly. I would like to get into a debate with you, but I don't have enough spare time atm. I also need to judge your debate tournament, which is time-consuming But sometimes in the future we might get the chance.

oh my... if he can block that with yata mirror he would have done it. much easier than lecturing the 2 jinchuuriki and asking them to hit it with their strongest attacks yah? a shield is a shield how would he protect himself if he'll be surrounded by boulders and crush him in every angle, doesn't make sense to me.

Let's say it will crush him if he's caught inside. That means he doesn't need to be caught in it. And I don't mind Nagato having one or two ultimate attacks that are a 100% win for him because the same can be said about Itachi. If Nagato gets caught in Tsukyiomi, it's done. You can never convince me that he can escape it.