[Discussion] Religious effects.

[North Kai]

Well like it or not a large part of the western civilization is based on christianity. Not because it is right and not even because it is correct (imo it isnt but that isnt the discussion here) but because we have lived with it for almost 2 thousand years ever since the battle of Frigidus when christianity enveloped one of the birthplaces of the west, the Roman Empire. Since then all professions were affected by christianity. It played large roles in politics and law, even in the polarization of world powers. The entire west today is what it is because of christianity and all our lives happen in this system that was build first on the greco-roman and then a christian world and spread its influence even to the rest of the world.

So weather you are a religious person or an atheist like me it would be tremendously stupid to deny any influence religion had on your life. The most important structures in the western civilizations were build in a time when christianity was one of the great powers of the world (ofc there are other influences but im sticking to the point which is religion), and this structures are with us every day: law, politics (the two most important structures in every country and affect us every day in almost everything we do weather you get it or not), art (some of the most influental literary works for example) , architecture (whole cities were built according to religion), ...

But in this context you cant think of christianity as a belief in god, its more than that and god had very little with anything i just wrote, its about the identity of a civilization, about their morals, about their root, about their mythology and history, .... They have changed much since back then but both conservatives and liberals are still affected by our roots, which are in the greco-roman and christian culture

PS: only talking about western culture particularly, but its pretty much the same everywhere, there is no right religion and there is no religion that is right but we need something similar, some people hang to christianity, some to islam, atheists have their own morals which were (in the west) undoubtetly influenced by christianity and in return christianity had its roots in previous religions. its no coincidence that all religions are similar.

to me religion isnt a belief in god which is what it means to most people but the structure of the society, and we dont live in a completely christian world, it is changing constantly and not even christianity isnt completely christian (of you know what i mean)

 

[Ebottif]

Have you ever noticed that the poorer/weaker people are the more powerful their God is? It's always amazed me how Catholicism has managed to make drinking blood and eating flesh not be looked at as savage. Religion gives a lot of people the wrong impression. Some use it as a justification for their actions when they shouldn't.

That being said, there are very intelligent religious people out there. The best thing that can be said on the side of atheism is that the world could have been created without God- everything fits together. But we cannot disprove it. However, we don't pretend to know everything like religion does. And that's why I like it more.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I don't know whether the world would be better off without religion. All I know is that forcing people out of their beliefs probably isn't the best idea. And that's my standpoint on religion ^^
(By the way, R.I.P. Christopher Hitchens. If you want a good explanation on the side of an atheist, watch his debates)

 

[ShishaMastah420]

You always make some wicked threads and they always need some-type of intricate explanation but this one, i can give my thoughts in a quote and some pictures;

"I wish more people cared about Earth as much as they cared about who they believe created it."

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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[Pavoneo]

That is both your opinions, you two are able to have a descent conversation, but the majority on here will just flame. But what I meant by the Minority... not in the world but on here on Narutobase. I can point out mistakes based on the bible itself, though I'm not in a position that allows me to speak on Christians' Behalf , I'm only 18 and I still need more to learn.

Now to correct those two statements:

Shaving: No sir, we can shave whenever we want and however we want, BUT it's best to have a descent look, like if you keep your hair long and don't take care of it, then you ( a christian ) is actually insulting his own people, most of the world judge a whole religion on ones actions. Example ( Osama bin laden and Islam ), ( Ceaser or whatever his name in English and Christianity ), so what the bible meant if you can keep yourself in best Shape and always clean and bright then you can keep your hair long and you are entitled to take care of it ( See there, take care of it, not "Don't" cut it ).

Not looking at a woman at all: that is completely wrong sir, the Bible meant do not look at a woman with "lust", you can freely look at her and think she's pretty, I might get to know her and make her my wife. BUT it forbids looking at a woman and thinking "dammmnnnn she's hot, I'll bang dat A$$" or "I'd hit dat".... Etc, those are lust, these don't come from your heart, they come from your brain. In the Bible and any religious book, they clearly state that EVERY single person is born with a pure heart, what makes a person evil/good, is the circumstances and the world around him.

Those two points or any thing that is written in the bible that I've fully understood... I can argue with these and talk about them, but any other things that I don't know about, I would not talk about them cause my explanation can be wrong and I will mess up what my religion originally meant. I hope I don't get flamed now , I know a lot of people will read this ( IF ) and say that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard and "religion is for fools", God doesn't Exist and such words that will make this thread burn lol.

Didn't read your second other two posts yet, but from this. Sorry, the shaving thing was definitely a misconception and I apologize because I was foolish enough to talk about it when I knew very little of it ._. as for the second part, that's what I was implying when I said that. Because I said "look" then in parenthesis I said (Check her out) or something near that, too lazy to look. Anyway, when I said check her out I meant examples you said, that revolved completely around lust and nothing more., so I think I used that example in the correct terms.

[EDIT] Read the two other posts, thanks for clearing those up^^.

Well like it or not a large part of the western civilization is based on christianity. Not because it is right and not even because it is correct (imo it isnt but that isnt the discussion here) but because we have lived with it for almost 2 thousand years ever since the battle of Frigidus when christianity enveloped one of the birthplaces of the west, the Roman Empire. Since then all professions were affected by christianity. It played large roles in politics and law, even in the polarization of world powers. The entire west today is what it is because of christianity and all our lives happen in this system that was build first on the greco-roman and then a christian world and spread its influence even to the rest of the world.

So weather you are a religious person or an atheist like me it would be tremendously stupid to deny any influence religion had on your life. The most important structures in the western civilizations were build in a time when christianity was one of the great powers of the world (ofc there are other influences but im sticking to the point which is religion), and this structures are with us every day: law, politics (the two most important structures in every country and affect us every day in almost everything we do weather you get it or not), art (some of the most influental literary works for example) , architecture (whole cities were built according to religion), ...

But in this context you cant think of christianity as a belief in god, its more than that and god had very little with anything i just wrote, its about the identity of a civilization, about their morals, about their root, about their mythology and history, .... They have changed much since back then but both conservatives and liberals are still affected by our roots, which are in the greco-roman and christian culture

PS: only talking about western culture particularly, but its pretty much the same everywhere, there is no right religion and there is no religion that is right but we need something similar, some people hang to christianity, some to islam, atheists have their own morals which were (in the west) undoubtetly influenced by christianity and in return christianity had its roots in previous religions. its no coincidence that all religions are similar.

to me religion isnt a belief in god which is what it means to most people but the structure of the society, and we dont live in a completely christian world, it is changing constantly and not even christianity isnt completely christian (of you know what i mean)

Sorry for the double post D: but you guys should read this post if you haven't.

@Bold: Isn't it funny how religion strongly influences many of these examples you've listed, yet we've made a law of separation of law and state? It seems a little silly to see a law turn out to be so hypocritical of itself. Although when living in a world of democracy, it's impossible to escape religious influences in politics, architecture, morals, etc etc.

 

[North Kai]

Sorry for the double post D: but you guys should read this post if you haven't.

@Bold: Isn't it funny how religion strongly influences many of these examples you've listed, yet we've made a law of separation of law and state? It seems a little silly to see a law turn out to be so hypocritical of itself. Although when living in a world of democracy, it's impossible to escape religious influences in politics, architecture, morals, etc etc.

ty

i really want ppl to read this, do you think i should create a thread later?

 

[Pavoneo]

ty

i really want ppl to read this, do you think i should create a thread later?

Mehh, really up to you^^.

 

[ShishaMastah420]

Everyone Watch this video...I'm only like 20 minutes in but i defiantly recommend this to both Religious and Non-Religious to watch this video...

The Naked Truth: Directed by Bill Jenkins

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[Joki]

I severely hate both sides of religion. Everyone involved are usually gigantic d-bags about it. Which is why I approve of being in the middle and an unbiased perspective, too bad it don't happen much.

 

[Calbackshoot3r]

Religion gives people the ability to grasp to objective morality (whether they realize it or not), whereas nonreligious people grasp to relative morality.

This is a huge deal because a lot of ideas that stem from religious faiths are/were brought into most of our cultures. Examples are murder is wrong, cheating on your wife is wrong, etc, etc... People can say that has nothing to do with reality but the truth is these ideas have become objective truths that they're "wrong" whether man-made laws or God-made laws.

Point is religion has a past with all of us in some form and shape us into the individuals we are by upholding traditions, raising your kids certain ways, etc. The way we do these things is based on whether or not you agree/follow religious ideals (unless you're apatheist).

The biggest question I ask everyone who is atheist or agnostic (I'm agnostic) is how you justify it and what's your responsibility in playing that role? These are important. It doesn't do much good to be 6 and be religious because your parents make you go to church every week or being atheist because you don't care enough to look into it and it's the "cool" thing to be on the interwebs.

 

[SilverSlick]

In the small town I live in, its baptist predominant. People rarely ever think of Atheism or even religion itself where I from. I can comfortably say that God is the last thing people my age think about even though they go to church every Wednesday and Sunday. They can't grasp the basic concepts of morality. I'm not going to judge any further. People always say that the Bible belt is a bad place and the teachers always force feed their Religion to their students but honestly its not like that. They teach from the text book, which is very shitty.

Seriously though, people my age will front about what they believe in, but what they truly care about is recreation. They don't care about religion, atheism, politics etc. As for me, I'm not that big on religion. I find it despicable though that a lot follow their religion because of a guaranteed salvation and not that it teaches good morals or how you can help your fellow neighbor or community.

 

[Avani]

Do not double/multipost. or We wll be sorry for you but still infract. :|

 

['Toxic]

Being religious doesn't mean you'll behave more maturely, well in some cases because I'm not religious at all. I have my own morals, I don't drink or smoke or go having *** like a maniac, I'm an A student and I'm friendly towards others if they show respect.
One flaw most religious people have is judging others when they do something wrong and throwing the "You will burn in hell" or the "it says in the bible" excuse.
It's like SOME cant think for themselves, I'm agnostic, neutral towards all.
SOME atheist then take things too far as well..it truly just depends on the person. I have religious friends who are accepting and kind..then I have some who aren't. I believe being religious is bad when you depend on it and become a fanatic...also when you're an atheist and become so fond of hating 'God' or don't believe in him that you start to do bad things.

One bad thing about religious people would be that because of some morals, we are behind in science.

I had a friend who called me out, she was so angry because I told her I was agnostic and said that science was sh*t etc..
I pity those who go against the science they use to live and survive, I wonder..if they would reject that same science they hate when there dying. Will they say "I wont take that medicine b/c is the devil's doing?" as some say.

I would be willing to help anyone, even if that person was different and not judge like many non religious and religious do. Again, it has to do with the person at the end, if he or she will let religion completely blind them or will they keep their head.​

 

[Chode]

Religion a good Idea.... but taken to far....no god or gods or whatever you believe in would want you to fallow a book written by man .... man is to greedy or better yet most humans only think for them self's ...... If you believe in a god you should do what your heart deems right have faith that your a good person .... you don't need to to fallow rules of man to get into heaven.... IMO sorry I didn't really answer your questions but this is how I feel

 

[Ashflura]

Pavoneo you need a rep for all the interesting topics you bring up!xD
And even another one for having successful discussions going through~

How do you guys think religion effects things such as intelligence, behaviour, habits, and whatnot?
For me personally I believe society has a higher influence than religion most of the time. Religion is more of my way of life.

I try to mold my life according to the Islamic principles - it can be difficult at times since I live in a multicultural society. Islam brings for me a purpose to keep good and positive morals. Trying my best not to casually swear, keeping patient, always seeing both sides of an argument, tolerating other cultures and much more. Sometimes you need that reminder that someone's watching and judging you, otherwise you fall back.

Many people who claim they are 'religious' are often onesided and stubborn, this also happens when people mix up culture with religion too (I see it in my parents).

People who stick true to the basis of the religion, which is like only 1/3 of people you'll find generally are the kinder bunch out of those who do state they are religious.

On the other hand, anyone I believe anyone can grow up kind and sincere, and have an education. I love to learn! I mean knowledge is valued in Islam, the first university in the world was founded by a female Muslim. We just don't bother exploring details that have already been explained in the Qu'ran. There's still plenty of things to be discovered in the world and its encouraged that we discover new things, and as long as it doesn't interfere with basic principles of Islam, such as fasting, praying 5x a day etc.

 

['Toxic]

Religion a good Idea.... but taken to far....no god or gods or whatever you believe in would want you to fallow a book written by man .... man is to greedy or better yet most humans only think for them self's ...... If you believe in a god you should do what your heart deems right have faith that your a good person .... you don't need to to fallow rules of man to get into heaven.... IMO sorry I didn't really answer your questions but this is how I feel

I love this, I feel the same. I doubt I could trust a book written by mankind, there's stuff that truly don't fit if you study the bible but hey, those who want to be religious, good for you and those who don't then good for you too.

 

[Shinobi Train]

Im Atheist
personally i think religion is a double edged sword
it makes someone/a group behave a lot better than if they where atheist IN MOST CASES(not all).
but intellegence wise through personal experience,religious people deem science as pointless which does stop us from progressing (or atleast slow us down)
religious people tend to be more friendly etc.
i was brought up as a christian but turned towards atheism when i realised/thought its a bit too supernatural......

please dont flame

Actually, this is interesting. Religion as in a nicolaitan means that there's a group who's sole interest is to control the masses. The RCC for example controlled people and slowed progress. Their belief in a creator wasn't the problem really, it was the people who set themselves up as "god's" priests.

Belief isn't the problem, it's those that seek to control with it. It was the RCC who originally introduced the idea that killing and dying for one's creator in war would grant eternal life. Sure, sacrifices had happened before then, but this was really the first time it had been introduced in such a scale into war itself. Vikings also believed that a glorious death would allow them entrance to Valhalla, but the RCC and the Templars for example took it a step further.

In other words, you can't blame the belief in a creator for causing such disaster...only the people pulling the strings. Believe me, those in power knew exactly what they were doing; they knew all too well that such a thing would cause people to fight and die for them by giving such a promise. Once they were dead, they wouldn't know one way or the other so it didn't matter, those that survived merely thought their fallen comrades died for a good cause not knowing any better.

 

[Avani]

Pavoneo you need a rep for all the interesting topics you bring up!xD
And even another one for having successful discussions going through~

How do you guys think religion effects things such as intelligence, behaviour, habits, and whatnot?
For me personally I believe society has a higher influence than religion most of the time. Religion is more of my way of life.

I try to mold my life according to the Islamic principles - it can be difficult at times since I live in a multicultural society. Islam brings for me a purpose to keep good and positive morals. Trying my best not to casually swear, keeping patient, always seeing both sides of an argument, tolerating other cultures and much more. Sometimes you need that reminder that someone's watching and judging you, otherwise you fall back.

Many people who claim they are 'religious' are often onesided and stubborn, this also happens when people mix up culture with religion too (I see it in my parents).

People who stick true to the basis of the religion, which is like only 1/3 of people you'll find generally are the kinder bunch out of those who do state they are religious.

On the other hand, anyone I believe anyone can grow up kind and sincere, and have an education. I love to learn! I mean knowledge is valued in Islam, the first university in the world was founded by a female Muslim. We just don't bother exploring details that have already been explained in the Qu'ran. There's still plenty of things to be discovered in the world and its encouraged that we discover new things, and as long as it doesn't interfere with basic principles of Islam, such as fasting, praying 5x a day etc.

Whch university it would be?

 

[REX Lex]

Whch university it would be?

probably an university in Spain Muslims ruled ower Spain for 700 years

 

[North Kai]

the first university was Bologna Italy but I cant remember the year somwhere either 1088 or 1118 (cant remember correctly but it is one of those 2 i think) I think, and I doubt it that an University in Italy was founded by a muslim woman

 

[Shinobi Train]

probably an university in Spain Muslims ruled ower Spain for 700 years

At one time Muslim Spain was the most advanced civilization I believe. Of course that changed hands several times depending on who allowed and furthered the most research and study.