KM Naruto>Nagato

[FizzyDrink]

Like i've said on the first sentence, i would like to explain what happened in that fight cuz people say that Nagato is stronger than Naruto just cuz of that fight. So it was necessary for me to explain what really happened at that time

Well in that case your title is misleading...you don't prove at all that Naruto is stronger than Nagato. You just disprove a proof that is used, but that doesn't mean that Naruto wins.

 

[Invsblphntm]

Lmaoo... Did you skip all the pages were Naruto was just chatting all carefree with Nagato and Itachi?

But is always chilling, but still he was on guard...He said it himself..

Yeah, he was still fighting, no? And the main part of the fight began when Nagato couldn't talk.

 

[Exaar]

He always had his mobility problem even alive, so it's not something that should change. I agree with the rest but still, Nagato(controlled by Kabuto) was serious fight which was not the case from Naruto. Because he spited his chakra, he couldn't even use clones, no powerful ninjutsus, no great speed also. Since he wasn't serious he didn't even try to surpass Nagato with speed like against Raikage for example

Gedo Mazo would be a problem though, but i didn't counted that^^ Anyway KM Naruto was already dealing with Gedo Mazo recently

While i agree that naruto was weaker because of his clone Spam, But i can't see how he Deals with cerberus, It just keeps multiplying

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Also Nagato's chameleon can catch him off guard, or he could keep it hiden for the shared vision

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Same goes for nagato Flying summon, Naruto isn't that good at long ranged combat, nagato could keep it and himself out of range of Rs and get a birds eye view of the whole battle field.

Then there's gedo Mazo with 7biiju sealed inside it (nagato was alive and had the 7biiju sealed inside it befor he had died).
It stopped choji and his dads attack's like they were nothing

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Sent them flying

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Also had the strength to stop a Large scale earth style

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Also without Itachi he wouldn't figure out the weakness of CT and would need to waste a alot of chakra to try to destroy it with Rs.

Also Asura paths ability to grow extra Limbs, Also Extra faces, again adding to give shared vision.

Dealing with all of these at the same time is an extremely tough task, even for Km clones.
While also having to deal with Nagato with all 6paths in one body.

It can go either way.

 

[ShishaMastah420]

Yeah, he was still fighting, no? And the main part of the fight began when Nagato couldn't talk.

Yeaa it did, but as you can see from how Naruto was acting, asking Nagato to help him and what not...He didn't fully have his head in the game, as he would if he was fighting a Zetsu clone or something...

 

[Prince Charles]

dont agree

 

[arv993]

While i agree that naruto was weaker because of his clone Spam, But i can't see how he Deals with cerberus, It just keeps multiplying

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Also Nagato's chameleon can catch him off guard, or he could keep it hiden for the shared vision

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Same goes for nagato Flying summon, Naruto isn't that good at long ranged combat, nagato could keep it and himself out of range of Rs and get a birds eye view of the whole battle field.

Then there's gedo Mazo with 7biiju sealed inside it (nagato was alive and had the 7biiju sealed inside it befor he had died).
It stopped choji and his dads attack's like they were nothing

Spoiler

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Sent them flying

Spoiler

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Also had the strength to stop a Large scale earth style

Spoiler

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Also without Itachi he wouldn't figure out the weakness of CT and would need to waste a alot of chakra to try to destroy it with Rs.

Also Asura paths ability to grow extra Limbs, Also Extra faces, again adding to give shared vision.

Dealing with all of these at the same time is an extremely tough task, even for Km clones.
While also having to deal with Nagato with all 6paths in one body.

It can go either way.

Most of nagato's summons except cerebrus can be occupied or killed with naruto's summons. Shared vision isnt going to be useful when the summons themselves are fighting other summons

Naruto had another major problem back then kuruma was taking naruto's chakra which is not a problem.

Also one other factor nagato is crippled that is not something that can be ignored. shared vision makes up for that but in this case one kage level km clone and bunch of naruto's own summons can deal with most of nagato's extra eyes.

if the invisible summon catches him he has a clone or his summon to kill the summon but he didnt have that advantage last time

so naruto should have a much easier time getting a hit when shared vision is mainly not too helpful against naruto. we already know how fast he is so getting an opening to hit him is not far fetched at the least but no cake walk

also if he uses gedo mazo we know his other powers wouldnt be at his fullest as using gedo takes most of his energy similar to tobi when he was using his bijus to attack naruto. And a bunch of naruto of km clones or kyubi can distract gedo or crush him while naruto can hit nagato. naruto in km(one) along with bee aren't doing so bad against the gedo so a bunch of km clones should be able to hold it off or he can use kyubi itself

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Naruto has the edge he has km clone army plus he can use sm clones and have kyubbi help him out for 5 minutes. And again naruto doesnt have the same chakra problem he used to have so his km clones are even more powerful since he can use more rasengans and techs and also has sm clones who can generate their own chakra

and he can use sm these days instantly and is useful against preta path

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km naruto by himself probably won't win but with his full arsenal he has the edge.

 

[Joki]

Yeah what OP said is true, I agree 100%.

Although this is similar to when people say stuff like Pain>SM Naruto, or act like that actually happened in the manga lol. Because in the manga I read, Naruto stomped on pretty much every path with 0 effort and had disadvantages and basically zero knowledge at that.

People still claim that rikudo pain and Nagato can beat CURRENT Naruto to this day, pretty ridiculous. RM Naruto is a stomp for any version of Pain/Nagato, even SM is pretty arguable.

 

[FizzyDrink]

Most of nagato's clones except cerebrus can be occupied or killed with naruto's summons. Shared vision isnt going to be useful when the summons themselves are fighting other summons

Naruto had another major problem back then kuruma was taking naruto's chakra which is not a problem.

Also one other factor nagato is crippled that is not something that can be ignored. shared vision makes up for that but in this case one kage level km clone and bunch of naruto's own summons can deal with most of nagato's extra eyes.

if the invisible summon catches him he has a clone or his summon to kill the summon but he didnt have that advantage last time

so naruto should have a much easier time getting a hit when shared vision is mainly not too helpful against naruto.

also if he uses gedo mazo we know his other powers wouldnt be at his fullest as using gedo takes most of his energy similar to tobi when he was using his bijus to attack naruto. And a bunch of naruto of km clones or kyubi can distract gedo or crush him while naruto can hit nagato. naruto in km(one) along with bee aren't doing so bad against the gedo so a bunch of km clones should be able to hold it off or he can use kyubi itself

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Naruto has the edge he has km clone army plus he can use sm clones and have kyubbi help him out for 5 minutes. And again naruto doesnt have the same chakra problem he used to have so his km clones are even more powerful and also has sm clones who can generate their own chakra

km naruto by himself probably won't win but with his full arsenal he has the edge.

If we're talking about theoretical prime Nagato, he has use of his legs. Plot took them away.

Also, Gedo Mazo is a summon, it only hurts Nagato if he uses the soul sucking dragon technique.

Similarly, you forget that Nagato can do things like fly, he is a sensor, he can use all of the elements, and you never mentioned his paths in your post at all. All of this combined would provide Nagato with a win over Naruto.

 

[arv993]

If we're talking about theoretical prime Nagato, he has use of his legs. Plot took them away.

Also, Gedo Mazo is a summon, it only hurts Nagato if he uses the soul sucking dragon technique.

Similarly, you forget that Nagato can do things like fly, he is a sensor, he can use all of the elements, and you never mentioned his paths in your post at all. All of this combined would provide Nagato with a win over Naruto.

If u r talking paths of pain here is why its not really useful and can't happen:

paths cause him to use a lot of chakra to use to control the paths alongside himself. thats a lot of strain on nagato and he has a lot of chakra but he can't keep it up.

nagato has never been to show tto use his paths of pain alongside his actual body. tobi could barely do anything while his paths were out too

Are you kidding nagato is not healthy there is nothing we can do about it, the overuse of rinnegan caused him to sick and also become a cripple due hanzo alongside the fact that gedo screwed him up. Its like wishing itachi had an ems because plot made MS users go blind and will be much better without it. you're ignoring the negative aspect of nagato, he is crippled and not healthy half of which is caused by rinnegan.

naruto too is a sensor and is faster so he can react better and has the advantage over nagato.

naruto simply needs an opening to hit nagato during an interval of shinra tensei or such. he can use sm clone or a kunai to counter preta path.

if naruto hit nagato with speed similar to this nagato wont kno what hit him

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human path and asura path is not too useful against naruto. his summmons can be dealt by naruto's own summons. human path wont be too useful against clones and asura path wont help much. deva and preta paths would be the most effective and naruto already can overcome with scattered clones and deva has an interval which naruto can make use of.

naruto can also beat Ct using multiple frs or one tbb

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also controlling gedo fully so far seems to be consuming, tobi can't go too much on the offensive due to that. he woulnt be so desperate otherwise, and if he controls multiple biju outside like tobi did its very hard to control as we have seen tobi fail to fully control the beasts.

 

[FizzyDrink]

If u r talking paths of pain here is why its not really useful and can't happen:

paths cause him to use a lot of chakra to use to control the paths alongside himself. thats a lot of strain on nagato and he has a lot of chakra but he can't keep it up.

nagato has never been to show tto use his paths of pain alongside his actual body. tobi could barely do anything while his paths were out too

Are you kidding nagato is not healthy there is nothing we can do about it, the overuse of rinnegan caused him to sick and also become a cripple due hanzo alongside the fact that gedo screwed him up. Its like wishing itachi had an ems because plot made MS users go blind and will be much better without it. you're ignoring the negative aspect of nagato, he is crippled and not healthy half of which is caused by rinnegan.

naruto too is a sensor and is faster so he can react better and has the advantage over nagato.

naruto simply needs an opening to hit nagato during an interval of shinra tensei or such. he can use sm clone or a kunai to counter preta path.

if naruto hit nagato with speed similar to this nagato wont kno what hit him

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human path and asura path is not too useful against naruto. his summmons can be dealt by naruto's own summons. human path wont be too useful against clones and asura path wont help much. deva and preta paths would be the most effective and naruto already can overcome with scattered clones and deva has an interval which naruto can make use of.

naruto can also beat Ct using multiple frs or one tbb

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also controlling gedo fully so far seems to be consuming, tobi can't go too much on the offensive due to that. he woulnt be so desperate otherwise, and if he controls multiple biju outside like tobi did its very hard to control as we have seen tobi fail to fully control the beasts.

Umm...no, Nagato can use all of the paths in his own body, making it so the power of each path is increased. Didn't you know that? I'm not talking about him fighting alongside them, rather than him fighting with them in himself.

And when we talk about these types of scenarios, to judge strength fairly, you take away plot-related handicaps all together. For instance, Kimmimaro's sickness, in a versus thread, should not be counted. It is not a fair representation of his true strength. And Nagato's true strength is him with working legs, something that we've seen before and that plot took away. If he were crippled from birth, then that would be how he is in these scenarios. But he wasn't so it's not fair to take that away.

Secondly, Naruto only has sensor abilities in Sage Mode, just saying.

And you say Asura path is useless? If you remember from Nagato's attack on Konoha, that path is seemingly indestructible. Nagato, with that path in his body, would be incredibly hard to kill. He could then repair himself mechanically as well.

His sensing abilities would also allow him to preemptively put up a barrier or take some other evasive maneuver, which would at least allow him to survive an attack by Naruto.

I mentioned how Asura path would be useful, human path combined with Bansho Tenin would also spell death for Naruto if he isn't in BM. Nagato can use Gedo Mazo to eliminate clones, as well has his Massive Shinra tensei, which with all of the paths would be even stronger and might even end up being an auto-win for him.

Also, the reason Naruto can't beat CT is because he doesn't know how. The only reason he figured it out was because of Itachi. Alone, he would have died, and alone, he WOULD die, especially since CT would be stronger when all of the paths are in Nagato's body.

And controlling Gedo Mazo doesn't seem difficult, when Tobi first summoned it, it was no problem, and it only started hurting Nagato when they fused.

Not to mention Nagato still has the ability to preform massive elemental attacks, considering the amount of Chakra he has and his affinity to every single nature type.

 

[arv993]

Umm...no, Nagato can use all of the paths in his own body, making it so the power of each path is increased. Didn't you know that? I'm not talking about him fighting alongside them, rather than him fighting with them in himself.

And when we talk about these types of scenarios, to judge strength fairly, you take away plot-related handicaps all together. For instance, Kimmimaro's sickness, in a versus thread, should not be counted. It is not a fair representation of his true strength. And Nagato's true strength is him with working legs, something that we've seen before and that plot took away. If he were crippled from birth, then that would be how he is in these scenarios. But he wasn't so it's not fair to take that away.

Secondly, Naruto only has sensor abilities in Sage Mode, just saying.

And you say Asura path is useless? If you remember from Nagato's attack on Konoha, that path is seemingly indestructible. Nagato, with that path in his body, would be incredibly hard to kill. He could then repair himself mechanically as well.

His sensing abilities would also allow him to preemptively put up a barrier or take some other evasive maneuver, which would at least allow him to survive an attack by Naruto.

I mentioned how Asura path would be useful, human path combined with Bansho Tenin would also spell death for Naruto if he isn't in BM. Nagato can use Gedo Mazo to eliminate clones, as well has his Massive Shinra tensei, which with all of the paths would be even stronger and might even end up being an auto-win for him.

Also, the reason Naruto can't beat CT is because he doesn't know how. The only reason he figured it out was because of Itachi. Alone, he would have died, and alone, he WOULD die, especially since CT would be stronger when all of the paths are in Nagato's body.

And controlling Gedo Mazo doesn't seem difficult, when Tobi first summoned it, it was no problem, and it only started hurting Nagato when they fused.

Not to mention Nagato still has the ability to preform massive elemental attacks, considering the amount of Chakra he has and his affinity to every single nature type.

I know he can use all paths in one body but i thought u were insinuating that he is working with his paths of pain

nope thats not how it works nagato being cripple is part of who he is. you cant take an injury away, he was also sick due to the rinnegan the use of gedo mazo made him even more unfit for battle. Thats not an excuse a lot of ppl are affected by plot one way or the other, naruto should be able to fuse BM and sm or use it together since kuruma are buddies but did that happen no its plot. u can't simply make him unsick or have good legs that is a limitation of the character.

nope naruto can sense in km as well since he can sense negative/hostile emotions but his sm mode sensing is better and he can even use sm clones alogside his km clones

asura isnt to useful against naruto its simply not fast enough to deal deadly blows but it can give him extra faces. its not very useful against naruto

just because u r a sensor doesnt mean u can avoid all attacks, he wont be able to create preemptive barriers as naruto is too fast for him. naruto too is a sensor so its not a huge advantage for nagato

And naruto already beat bansho tenin

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and human path doesnt work on clones and nagato can't tell the difference unless naruto is in bm at which point its useless

nagato has to charge for massive shinra tensei and naruto is way too fast to let an opportunity like that go it will just give naruto a good opportunity to attack. And naruto in Bm wont die anyway since he can deflect 5 tbbs that each can destroy a mountain. and if he uses that attack then bye bye deva for a while making it even worse for nagato

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and in this pic we see how fast naruto is so he is not pulling that jutsu off

so naruto would just stand there while ct forms. kuruma isnt stupid he would advice naruto to just try to blast it with a tbb and he would kno since first of all he knows the sage and about the jubbi's powers and two he saw pain use ct during the invasion so that isnt going to work out.

show me where tobi fights all out when the gedo is being used to fight km naruto and others. he simply doesnt unless u show feats otherwise. there is no reason why he wouldnt go all out during gedo is fighting the others since he wanted kyubi and hachibi's chakra really bad

bee and km naruto were able to handle the gedo mazo quite well

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a bunch of naruto km clones(around 10) should be able to hold it off as well. and he can use more if he needed since kuruma no longer drains naruto's chakra and he even has sage mode clones that use their own chakra

last but not least u gotta show me all the elemental chakra feats that he has since we dont kno it we can't really use it in a battle thread.

nagato's chakra is limited even tho its big, he can't use gedo mazo, big scale shinra tensei, Ct, multiple massive elemental techs and so on so forth(aka normal techs and paths he uses in battle) all in one fight even he is limited though he has a big chakra reserves. edo is a different story but we are talking about a live nagato

where as naruto is not limited and so far has shown us in this war whatever i said he can use all across the various battles he has been in. he used multiple km clones, Bm mode, sm mode, giant tbb, multiple huge rasengans, summons, many frs etc.

he is not limited in chakra and can do almost any jutsu he needs since nowadays he is friends with kyubbi. so lets see he has his own huge chakra reserves + kyubi's humongous reserve and Sm also constantly gives him chakra and he has shown he can use it without prep time. So almost any tech is not restricted but the same is not for nagato

 

[genii96]

I know he can use all paths in one body but i thought u were insinuating that he is working with his paths of pain

nope thats not how it works nagato being cripple is part of who he is. you cant take an injury away, he was also sick due to the rinnegan the use of gedo mazo made him even more unfit for battle. Thats not an excuse a lot of ppl are affected by plot one way or the other, naruto should be able to fuse BM and sm or use it together since kuruma are buddies but did that happen no its plot. u can't simply make him unsick or have good legs that is a limitation of the character.

nope naruto can sense in km as well since he can sense negative/hostile emotions but his sm mode sensing is better and he can even use sm clones alogside his km clones

asura isnt to useful against naruto its simply not fast enough to deal deadly blows but it can give him extra faces. its not very useful against naruto

just because u r a sensor doesnt mean u can avoid all attacks, he wont be able to create preemptive barriers as naruto is too fast for him. naruto too is a sensor so its not a huge advantage for nagato

And naruto already beat bansho tenin

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and human path doesnt work on clones and nagato can't tell the difference unless naruto is in bm at which point its useless

nagato has to charge for massive shinra tensei and naruto is way too fast to let an opportunity like that go it will just give naruto a good opportunity to attack. And naruto in Bm wont die anyway since he can deflect 5 tbbs that each can destroy a mountain. and if he uses that attack then bye bye deva for a while making it even worse for nagato

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and in this pic we see how fast naruto is so he is not pulling that jutsu off

so naruto would just stand there while ct forms. kuruma isnt stupid he would advice naruto to just try to blast it with a tbb and he would kno since first of all he knows the sage and about the jubbi's powers and two he saw pain use ct during the invasion so that isnt going to work out.

show me where tobi fights all out when the gedo is being used to fight km naruto and others. he simply doesnt unless u show feats otherwise. there is no reason why he wouldnt go all out during gedo is fighting the others since he wanted kyubi and hachibi's chakra really bad

bee and km naruto were able to handle the gedo mazo quite well

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a bunch of naruto km clones(around 10) should be able to hold it off as well. and he can use more if he needed since kuruma no longer drains naruto's chakra and he even has sage mode clones that use their own chakra

last but not least u gotta show me all the elemental chakra feats that he has since we dont kno it we can't really use it in a battle thread.

nagato's chakra is limited even tho its big, he can't use gedo mazo, big scale shinra tensei, Ct, multiple massive elemental techs and so on so forth(aka normal techs and paths he uses in battle) all in one fight even he is limited though he has a big chakra reserves. edo is a different story but we are talking about a live nagato

where as naruto is not limited and so far has shown us in this war whatever i said he can use all across the various battles he has been in. he used multiple km clones, Bm mode, sm mode, giant tbb, multiple huge rasengans, summons, many frs etc.

he is not limited in chakra and can do almost any jutsu he needs since nowadays he is friends with kyubbi. so lets see he has his own huge chakra reserves kyubi's humongous reserve and Sm also constantly gives him chakra and he has shown he can use it without prep time. So almost any tech is not restricted but the same is not for nagato

stop being ignorant,all km naruto's attacks are chakra based,even km naruto himself,a sm clone will be beaten in seconds and dont give me that shadow clone chakra crap,the fight didnt go on nearly enough to even matter about chakra,naruto cud also access the kyubbi's chakra whenever he wanted,so he cud simply refill the lost chakra which he lost as long as the kyubi has chakra. CT ends km naruto instantly,nagato has mastered all six affinities,his water tech allows rain to fall over an entire village,you think he dosent have any powerful jutsu of the other affinities?. Nagato>km naruto,deal with it.

 

[Munboy]

Naruto has the potential to beat Nagato of you consider all aspects of his arsenal like all his summons and transformations. Moreover a strategy which incorporates all of them.

However we have to consider a few things:

-Naruto has still not brought himself to summon the Fukasaku and Shima to battle Tobi and they'd help. So logically, would Naruto bring them out? In a situation where he knows his powers wouldn't budge alone, the answer is yes. Though he didn't feel that way when he faced Nagato, there's that to consider. However you can argue that he had back up, and that's why he didn't bother.

- We haven't seen Nagato's full powers; elemental jutsu and generic jutsu we can logically deduce; the full scope of the Rinnegan we can't yet till we see the full scope of the Rinnegan and actual cues which indicate what Nagato can and cannot do with them.

- When saying this you'd have to factor: crippled Nagato, mobile Nagato, Nagato with Pain by his side (crippled and/or mobile). Which one are you referencing?

As it stands now, Naruto has the potential to beat Nagato; a chance, rather. Though it would literally take everything Naruto can throw at Nagato. Having said that, you'd have to consider the Nagato you reference, furthermore the fact we don't know the full power of the Rinnegan yet. Especially the black out attacks which come about when Nagato is completely and utterly defenseless.

 

[arv993]

stop being ignorant,all km naruto's attacks are chakra based,even km naruto himself,a sm clone will be beaten in seconds and dont give me that shadow clone chakra crap,the fight didnt go on nearly enough to even matter about chakra,naruto cud also access the kyubbi's chakra whenever he wanted,so he cud simply refill the lost chakra which he lost as long as the kyubi has chakra. CT ends km naruto instantly,nagato has mastered all six affinities,his water tech allows rain to fall over an entire village,you think he dosent have any powerful jutsu of the other affinities?. Nagato>km naruto,deal with it.

did i say km naruto? why would i include bm mode and sm mode in it if that were the case.

also km clones can fight alongside these other modes so no nagato is not easily killing them.

that fight you're referring to had naruto with only a fraction of his full power which u seem not to grasp whatsoever so ofc chakra matters. he didn't have 13 other km clones nor did he have bm mode nor his summons.

Ct beats naruto u kn naruto can simply throw multiple frs since he has more than 1 clone to destroy the core or use a tbb and u claim it would instantly kill him SMH.

if naruto used a simple kunai as a weapon and used it to kill nagato during a shinra intrval nagato is screwed naruto's speed is so useful especially considering nagato's mobility.

Also take into consideration that when nagato's shared vision is occupied for example with naruto's summons or clones. nagato can even be hit by ninjutsu

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and if nagato can't react for example to naruto's speed

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or he can use an sm clone to hit him with forg katas with an opening

did i say nagato didnt have any elemental jutsu i aid he didn't have many or enough that it actually makes a difference

 

[Bijuu mode naruto]

even i have to admit KM naruto was not stronger then nagato

TBH i was disappointed with KM naruto just because naruto get to use all the kyuubi chakra but all he got was speed and bunch of different rasengan

I think he need a new Jutsu