The Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan > The Byakugan (Possible misconception in NB)

[-Vegeta-]

The manga does not say that.

Seriously? I just provided a scan of the manga saying it.

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"The black flames will converge on exactly that spot" And everytime amaterasu has been used it's appeared on the exact spot the users eye is focused on.

Amatersau has been dodged, even if it has been dodged just once by the fastest person alive the statement is totally dis proven, and seriously, A was practically 6 feet from sasuke when he dodged it, dodging any katon at that range is an incredible feat.

How was the statement wrong? Zetsu never said it was unavoidable, he only said the flames appear at the exact point the users eye is focusing on. A is said to have reactions on par with Minato and thus used his reactions in combination with his insane speed to avoide amaterasu before being directly struck.

 

[Maunten]

Seriously? I just provided a scan of the manga saying it.

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"The black flames will converge on exactly that spot"



How was the statement wrong? Zetsu never said it was unavoidable, he only said the flames appear at the exact point the users eye is focusing on. A is said to have reactions on par with Minato and thus used his reactions in combination with his insane speed to avoide amaterasu before being directly struck.

His speed would not matter, the amaterasu would virtually be a space time tech, you can not dodge something that appears on you.

I gave the definition for converge.

con·verge/kənˈvərj/
Verb:
(of several people or things) Come together from different directions so as eventually to meet.
Come from different directions and meet at (a place).

The black flames come from the user and go to the focal point they do not appear there from nowhere.

 

[-Vegeta-]

His speed would not matter, it amaterasu would be virtually a space time tech, you can not dodge something that appears on you.

I gave the definition for converge.

And there lies the problem. Did you not see when I posted the scans of the amaterasu feats? I posted near instantly. Why? Because when amaterasu appears on the target it takes some time(albeit very little) to attatch to the opponent.

Here's an example:

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Itachi strikes Nagato with amaterasu, but as you can see the flames didn't exactly attatch to Nagato right away. There's a split second before they attatch and thus is one of the reasons along with his insane speed and reactions that A could avoid them.

Examples of amaterasu appearing directly on the target:

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Facts are facts my friend.

 

[Maunten]

And there lies the problem. Did you not see when I posted the scans of the amaterasu feats? I posted near instantly. Why? Because when amaterasu appears on the target it takes some time(albeit very little) to attatch to the opponent.

Here's an example:

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Itachi strikes Nagato with amaterasu, but asyou can see the flames didn't exactly attatch to Nagato right away. There's a split second before they attatch and thus is one of the reasons along with his insane speed and reactions that A could avoid them.

They were right next to each other though.... Also note that nagato gets the flames off of him using deva path (force).

The Byaguka uses the force of chakra explusion from tenketsu as defense, remember neji using this method to free himself from webs when fight Kidomaru.


The only seemingly long range one there was itachi's Amaterasu on the giant summons, this feat still does not support, as they are giant.

 

[Strict]

Without getting offence but are you retarded? The Byakugan is nothing compared to the Sharingan, Itachi would beat Neji with no difficult by only using this tomoe Sharingan. Amaterasu can't be repelled because Neji can't react to it, above this technique cannot be compared to the Shinra Tenseis repulsion ability. If the Byakugan could get the Amaterasu off by this way, maybe everyone could get off the Amaterasu by turning in circles :sy:. The Genjutsu will one shot him as well, equally like Susanoo would crush him with one attack. This isn't even debatable so stfu.

 

[-Vegeta-]

They were right next to each other though.... Also note that nagato gets the flames off of him using deva path (force).

The point was to show you that even though the flames appear exactly at the users focus of vision that there's a split second before the flames actually attatch. It's manga fact that the flames appear at the exact spot of the focus of the users vision. You simply can't deny it and if you do then you're simply going against Kishi in which case you should mail him and take your issues up with him, not me.

The Byaguka uses the force of chakra explusion from tenketsu as defense, remember neji using this method to free himself from webs when fight Kidomaru.

When I posted in this thread I was speaking of his eight trigrams palms revolving heaven jutsu. Neji wouldn't have enough time to activate that defense before being struck by amaterasu.

Therotically his tenketsu could work, but there's no concrete proof to say so. Even then the Hyuga's have no answer for the Uchiha's genjutsu or susanoo in MS and EMS users case.

 

[Awkward Linguist]

Niggas plz,

EMS Sharingan > Byakugan in any way.

 

[iMicLykTyson]

To truely test this theory why not take the best ems user and the best byakugan user and see who wins in the battle of ocular techniques

 

[Maunten]

Without getting offence but are you retarded? The Byakugan is nothing compared to the Sharingan, Itachi would beat Neji with no difficult by only using this tomoe Sharingan. Amaterasu can't be repelled because Neji can't react to it, above this technique cannot be compared to the Shinra Tenseis repulsion ability. If the Byakugan could get the Amaterasu off by this way, maybe everyone could get off the Amaterasu by turning in circles :sy:. The Genjutsu will one shot him as well, equally like Susanoo would crush him with one attack. This isn't even debatable so stfu.

I am not retarded.

The running in circles won't work the source of the force has to be from the shinobi so that the flames are pushed off from neji without being touched.

Please tell me how a three tomoe can beat the byakugan...

Howwill can tsukuyomi be used Hyuga don't have to open their eyes (they have x ray vision)

Hyuga have great chakra control, so getting out of lesser genjutsu should be easy.

A fatal gentle fist blow to the heart will kill sasukes, and gentle fist can be used to block sasukes chakra flow thus preventing quite a few of his techs.

Neji has shown he can disrupt chakra using tenketsu chakra expulsion and this could theoretically be used against susanoo.

Hyuga are Taijutsu masters and should be able to dodge susanoo punches ...

To truely test this theory why not take the best ems user and the best byakugan user and see who wins in the battle of ocular techniques

That's not really far though, because the best EMS user has extraordinary chakra even by the standards of his own clan he was far from normal, any clan can have a prodigy at some point.

The point was to show you that even though the flames appear exactly at the users focus of vision that there's a split second before the flames actually attatch. It's manga fact that the flames appear at the exact spot of the focus of the users vision. You simply can't deny it and if you do then you're simply going against Kishi in which case you should mail him and take your issues up with him, not me.



When I posted in this thread I was speaking of his eight trigrams palms revolving heaven jutsu. Neji wouldn't have enough time to activate that defense before being struck by amaterasu.

Therotically his tenketsu could work, but there's no concrete proof to say so. Even then the Hyuga's have no answer for the Uchiha's genjutsu or susanoo in MS and EMS users case.

Zetsu said the flames converge at the focal point, also I was always of the opinion that the manga speaks through feats and events not so much character observations.

So far feats have show it is fast (as you would expect a katon to be), but it is not instantaneous.

 

[-Vegeta-]

Zetsu said the flames converge at the focal point, also I was always of the opinion that the manga speaks through feats and events not so much character observations.

So far feats have show it is fast (as you would expect a katon to be), but it is not instantaneous.

Feats have shown it to do exactly what Zetsu said it does.

Examples of amaterasu appearing directly on the target:

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"The black flames converge on exactly that spot" is what Zetsu said and these feats backup what he said. They appear at the exact spot the user focuses their vision on.

 

[Maunten]

Feats have shown it to do exactly what Zetsu said it does.

Examples of amaterasu appearing directly on the target:

Spoiler

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"The black flames converge on exactly that spot" is what Zetsu said and these feats backup what he said. They appear at the exact spot the user focuses their vision on.

I believe that this means that the flame go to where the eyes is focusing on, for example if Itachi looked through a glass window at naruto and used amaterasu, would it burn the glass window or would it burn naruto?

I believe you are saying it would be summoned at naruto's location.

Even though your pictures support what you are saying to an extent (I don't think any of the short ranged ones should be used tbh, just Itachi attacking the giant dog) "A" successfully dodged an amaterasu.

Now we can say this was just because of his insane speed, but this means it can still be dodged, and let's not forget it is one thing to dodge something that is meant to appear on you, but he also dodged it at close range.

Also why did the amaterasu continue on it's trajectory past A towards the samurai behind A? It is because it was a projectile.

 

[iMicLykTyson]

It would have to burn through the glass watch raikage vs sasuke when raikage dodged it it went as far to hit the samurai behind him which was what his eye was focused on after Raikage moved out of the sharingan's sight

 

[-Vegeta-]

I believe that this means that the flame go to where the eyes is focusing on, for example if Itachi looked through a glass window at naruto and used amaterasu, would it burn the glass window or would it burn naruto?

I believe you are saying it would be summoned at naruto's location.

We don't know how it appears near instantly upon the target because it's never explained, but what we do know is that the manga has stated that the flames converge on the exact spot at the focus of the users vision. There's no denying that.

Even though your pictures support what you are saying to an extent (I don't think any of the short ranged ones should be used tbh, just Itachi attacking the giant dog) "A" successfully dodged an amaterasu.

My scans backup exactly what Zetsu said.

Now we can say this was just because of his insane speed, but this means it can still be dodged, and let's not forget it is one thing to dodge something that is meant to appear on you, but he also dodged it at close range.

And I already showed you that there's a split second before the flames attatch and that along with A's insane speed and reactions allowed him to avoid the flames.

Also why did the amaterasu continue on it's trajectory past A towards the samurai behind A? It is because it was a projectile.

It is a projectile and I never denied that, but the fact is it appears near instantly wherever the user focuses their vision. You CAN'T deny this. It's manga fact.

Zetsu didn't say the flames only appear at the user focus of vision in short range, he said it in general. There's ZERO evidence that supports it only working in short range like you keep insisting.

 

[Champ]

We don't know how it appears near instantly upon the target because it's never explained, but what we do know is that the manga has stated that the flames converge on the exact spot at the focus of the users vision. There's no denying that.



My scans backup exactly what Zetsu said.



And I already showed you that there's a split second before the flames attatch and that along with A's insane speed and reactions allowed him to avoid the flames.



It is a projectile and I never denied that, but the fact is it appears near instantly wherever the user focuses their vision. You CAN'T deny this. It's manga fact.

Zetsu didn't say the flames only appear at the user focus of vision in short range, he said it in general. There's ZERO evidence that supports it only working in short range like you keep insisting.

Vegeta u haven't debated this long in a while, he won't listen we already know he wrong

 

[-Vegeta-]

Vegeta u haven't debated this long in a while, he won't listen we already know he wrong

I've got some time to spare xd

 

[Maunten]

We don't know how it appears near instantly upon the target because it's never explained, but what we do know is that the manga has stated that the flames converge on the exact spot at the focus of the users vision. There's no denying that.



My scans backup exactly what Zetsu said.



And I already showed you that there's a split second before the flames attatch and that along with A's insane speed and reactions allowed him to avoid the flames.



It is a projectile and I never denied that, but the fact is it appears near instantly wherever the user focuses their vision. You CAN'T deny this. It's manga fact.

Zetsu didn't say the flames only appear at the user focus of vision in short range, he said it in general. There's ZERO evidence that supports it only working in short range like you keep insisting.

I did not say it only works at short range I said it has only seemingly appeared to be instant at short range.


It the speed of amaterasu that you speak of has never been emphasised in the manga, zetsu only described what determines the flames trajectory (they

converge​

at the focal point of the caster).

The main power of amaterasu is that he can't be extinguished by someone who can't use blaze release, and that it burns almost every thing, not it's great speed.

 

[-Vegeta-]

I did not say it only works at short range I said it has only seemingly appeared to be instant at short range.

And that doesn't prove much. Manga fact is that the flames appear wherever the user focuses their vision and thus will appear there as long as the user has whatever he/she is focusing on in their line of sight. There's simply no denying this. You have no basis on why the speed would be any different in long range than short range.

It the speed of amaterasu that you speak of has never been emphasised in the manga, zetsu only described what determines the flames trajectory (they

converge​

at the focal point of the caster).

The speed is obviously very high considering as soon as it's used it appears nigh instantly on the target. It doesn't take several minutes for the flames to appear. They appear right away.

The main power of amaterasu is that he can't be extinguished by someone who can't use blaze release, and that it burns almost every thing, not it's great speed.

Well there's really no point anymore. You continue to deny manga facts. Everytime amaterasu has been used its appeared nigh instantly, so for you to even think it doesn't possess great speed is simply foolish.

Anyway I'm done because it's pretty clear I'm not going to get through to you, so if you want to continue to deny manga facts then by all means feel free.

 

[Maunten]

And that doesn't prove much. Manga fact is that the flames appear wherever the user focuses their vision and thus will appear there as long as the user has whatever he/she is focusing on in their line of sight. There's simply no denying this.



The speed is obviously very high considering as soon as it's used it appears nigh instantly on the target. It doesn't take several minutes for the flames to appear. They appear right away.



Well there's really no point anymore. You continue to deny manga facts. Everytime amaterasu has been used its appeared nigh instantly, so for you to even think it doesn't possess great speed is simply foolish.

Anyway I'm done because it's pretty clear I'm not going to get through to you, so if you want to continue to deny manga facts then by all means feel free.

It is possibly that he have a difference of opinion that can from both view points be validated, it is a shame you had to get upset and call me foolish.

 

[-Vegeta-]

It is possibly that he have a difference of opinion that can from both view points be validated, it is a shame you had to get upset and call me foolish.

Amaterasu not being fast can't be validated at all considering everytime its been used its appeared nigh instantly and thus makes it extremely fast. It's simply common sense.

I also never called you foolish, I called your statement foolish because it simply isn't logical.

Your basis for why the flames won't appear nigh instantly from long range is that amaterasu isn't known for its speed, its known for its power, which isn't much of a basis in the first place. Still I'm sorry for calling you foolish.

Anyway I'm out.

 

[Maunten]

Amaterasu not being fast can't be validated at all considering everytime its been used its appeared nigh instantly and thus makes it extremely fast. It's simply common sense.

I also never called you foolish, I called your statement foolish because it simply isn't logical.

Your basis for why the flames won't appear nigh instantly from long range is that amaterasu isn't known for its speed, its known for its power, which isn't much of a basis in the first place. Still I'm sorry for calling you foolish.

Anyway I'm out.

I never said they are not fast, all prettty much every high ranking katon is too fast and vast for shino to dodge at short to mid range, but hyuga are Tiajutus masters and neji has a speed of 4.5 he is not even the head of the hyuga clan.

Also, yes I suppose you did not call me foolish but you still resorted to unnecessary ad hominems, instead of just accepting a difference of opinion.

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As you can see Neji does not have to start spinning for naruto's attack to not be able to touch him.​

Just to show how quickly neji can force amaterasu off, naruto is no where near as amaterasu then yes I know, but neji only activates it when naruto is really close to him.

Anyway bye I guess.