[Theory] Tobi: Thread for all Tobi theories and related discussions .

[Edge]

I'm done chief

You must be registered for see images

 

[Aze]

Tobi is Naruto.

 

[bigblunts420]

ok guys i got some new ideas from this last chapter on who tobi is. and im thinking its release edo izuna. it matches up pretty well except izuna was revived with a zetsu. like how madara was revived with hashs cells inplanted.

im not gonna go into detail as it is 4:25 in the mourning.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Tobi is Naruto.

His darkness. Yes, correct.

 

[OOOOOO]

Tobi certainly isn't the jiuubi, there are too many facts that oppose your theory but I compliment you on your creativity. We should never just exclude a possibility just because it doesn't seem possible on the first sight

 

[lol99]

Tobi is the elder son who is trying to achieve his fathers dream of world peace. :zonder:

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Tobi is the elder son who is trying to achieve his fathers dream of world peace. :zonder:

Actually I think this has more to do with Sasuke's half of the equation. Oh the irony of it, Naruto the dope a villainous mastermind and Sasuke the genius a mindless virus. Will have to update my theory to account for Sasuke.

 

[Amelius]

My personal Belief on Tobi is that he is the Younger son of the Sage of the six paths and I honestly have always thought that. I can explain in detail if anyone would like. Until then Ill just let your guys debate and observe No need throwing another Speculation in the mix atm.

 

[Aze]

In first considering Tobi's identity, I tried to take a more wholistic approach and started looking at elements that tied both the protagonist and antagonist together. I've looked at several of the characters, their tie-ins to the common storyline theme, and each other. I apologize in advance for the length, and any trips to the optometrist or psychiatrist the theory may cause.
Hanzou:

Spoiler

Tried to unite the five countries to bring about peace and fought a war to do so (Sound familiar? Don't worry I'm not going to say Hanzou is Tobi). During his war against the Leaf he takes on, defeats, and names the three legendary Sennin. Later he teams with Danzo from the Leaf to betray the Akatsuki. My first initial thought was why would you "buddy-up" and try to setup ambushes with a group you recently were in a war against? I realize that they were playing "quid pro quo" and if this were the only question I would dismiss it, but there are other inconsistencies. Another part that seems strange for Hanzou was his sudden inability to remember folks names. Hanzou could barely remember who Mifune was, despite specifically asking for his name when he spared his life.

You must be registered for see links

. In the same exchange with Mifune, Hanzo had a flashback to his own death. In the flashback, Hanzou struggled to remember Yahiko, another person he should have distinctly remembered. Nagato expressed his shock and dissapointment that this once formidable foe had declined

You must be registered for see links

. It doesn't seem reasonable that Hanzou, who went out of his way to know his most formidable adversaries names, would suddenly forget them. Another item that stretches belief was the body flicker technique he used to escape Gedo Mazo mid-attack

You must be registered for see links

. Now, think of this as a writer. Why was Hanzou's escape necessary? He did nothing noteworthy following the escape, but the escape itself was noteworthy because it speaks to the power that he had, a power that abandoned him shortly after confronting Nagato. Several main characters also questioned Hanzou's loss of power throughout the story. During the Pain arc, Jiraiya also expressed his disbelief upon hearing that Hanzou had been defeated. One could argue that this was a plot device to show how strong Pain was, but the fact that Pain also expressed surprise leads me to the conclusion that there is another factor at work. Changes also occurred with Hanzou's personality. In one instance he seems completely unfazed at the appearance of a Rinnegan on the battlefield, and later he spends his time hiding in his compound and second guessing his decision. People that are committed to bring about a war don't second guess themselves.

Shisui:

Spoiler

Lot's of inconsistency here. First, he informs Itachi that he lost an eye to Danzo. Then tells Itachi to kill him in order to awaken his own MS (not sure how Shisui awakened MS but let's table that). Later the village says he drowned and had a suicide note. Can you imagine what the suicide note must have said? "To whomever finds my body. I am tired of all of the double dealings, so I am going to kill myself. Take no notice of my missing two eyes and arm. I had taken up painting in an attempt to overcome my depression but was such a fail I cut off my arm and gouged my eyes out. I would have cut off my other arm, but then I would not have been able to write this note, which proves it was a suicide. Sincerely Shisui." Not really, it actually said the following

You must be registered for see links

. Anyway, there is also the inconsistency with Itachi even needing this as an excuse. If Itachi was planning to wipe out his own clan in a few days/weeks, why bother? Then there is Shisui's missing body. If I'm trying to hide a body, I don't let folks find it to establish an alibi, then steal it and dispose of it so nobody can find it. Couple this with the fact that Itachi teams up with the guy who took one of his best friends eyes? The whole thing stretches belief and reeks of a powerful genjutsu.

Danzo:

Spoiler

Danzo also had the stated goal that he wanted to bring about peace. He did this by systematically dismantling those perceived to be threats to the Leaf (guess someone needed to get him a dictionary). His most evil crime was the Uchiha massacre. He used Itachi's own pacifism as a weapon against him so that Itachi would be a double agent. Itachi supposedly tells Hiruzen the Elders an Danzo about the Uchiha plans and before Hiruzen can resolve the issue, Danzo, Tobi and Itachi take them all out. Prior to this Danzo mysteriously manages to get ahold of Shisui's eye. I don't know about you, but if my best friend says that someone took his eye, I'm not gonna go buddy-up with them and wipe out my entire clan on the premise that it was necessary. Itachi should have realized that even if there was a civil war of some kind, there would have been survivors on both sides. Also Hiruzen's failed attempts to negotiate with the Uchiha clan doesn't measure up to scrutiny. What kind of Coupe could it have been that the leader of the opposition is aware of it? This leads to a conclusion that some type of influence (possibly genjutsu) was at work that overwrote any other potential outcome. Then there is Danzo's need to combine Uchiha and Senju DNA. This need to combine these two blood lines occurs again and again with several characters.

Nagato:

Spoiler

Nagato first came into focus when Jiraiya infiltrated the hidden Rain village. Like Hanzou and Danzo he wanted to bring about peace. Together with Yahiko and Konan he formed the Akatsuki, and which were so successful in their attempts to overcome adversaries without killing, that Danzo looked upon them as his greatest threat. Hanzou sends word to Yahiko that he wants to negotiate, forms the alliance with Danzo, yada yada yada, I won't repeat. Couple of other parallels to point out other than his desire to pursue peace, and the complete 180 in his thinking as he abandoned his pacifist ways, the same way that Itachi did. The catalyst for this was the death of Yahiko, which led to the full realization of his Rinnegan abilities. It was the death of Yahiko that triggered something that proufoundly altered Nagato's belief system and not simply a desire for revenge. Look at Nagato's face following his full awakening of the Rinnegan. He is elated not upset or angry about Yahiko's death. Nagato begins defeating his enemies starting with Hanzou and was surprised when Hanzou could not remember him (see above).

Itachi:

Spoiler

If Shisui has a lot of inconsistency then Itachi is a walking self-contradiction. He started as a pacifist having been horrified by seeing war firsthand. Upon finding out about the Uhicha coupe plans, He teams up with a guy that took his best friends eyes. Wth? He gives up those pacifist ways and eliminates his entire clan including his parents. Wth? He teams with the Akatsuki to go hunt Jinchuriki? Wth? One of the most important messages that Itachi delivers to Kabuto is that he must accept who he is, he must stop trying to be something else. This message applies directly to Naruto as explained in the conclusion.

Madara:

Spoiler

No big deal. just some random dude with no significance..... Alright, alright, sorry for going into troll mode. Madara is significant. We know that Madara did not die in his battle with Hashirama, however he probably did die shortly after his match with Hashirama. When he was summoned as an Edo Tensei as Kabuto's trump card, THAT WAS THE REVEAL. He is not Tobi. People that refuse to accept it, remind me of when Darth Vader told Luke Skywalker he was his father. People refused to believe it. Even when Luke accepted it before the movie ended people still didn't believe it, but I digress. How do we know that he died shortly after? One, he isn't aged and Edo Tensei brings you back in the state you are in when you die. Look at Granny Chiyo. When Kabuto tells him that he must not have died when facing Hashirama, Madara doesn't confirm or deny it either way. Also, he tries his Mokuton powers for the first time against the Kage. If he had the powers of Hashirama to keep himself young then how did he die, and why? In fact, Madara says point blank that only Hashirama can defeat him. Why? Because Hashirama did defeat him. When he is revived it was clear that he was expecting it to be Nagato. Now the big mystery is how did he know Nagato. The timeline just doesn't make sense. Time itself is a big factor throughout the story and the most powerful Jutsu's (i.e. FTG, Izanami, Kamui, Space-Time Migration, Barrier) revolve around it.

Zetsu:

Spoiler

There are interesting correlations to Naruto's abilities with clones. Each of Naruto's clones is able to train and relay their experiences directly to Naruto and reduce the training time for Naruto. They also have the ability to gather and store nature energy and relay that back to the original. This is very similar to some of the functions that Tobi has Zetsu perform for him. Zetsu spams clones, records information, (though it is not clear how he is able to tranfer this information), and has the ability to gather and transfer stored chakra. When Naruto is in Sage Mode and in Biju Mode he has amazing sensory skills and Zetsu also has amazing sensory skills. Another interesting parallel that occurred in chapter 133 is that Naruto was shielded by Sasuke in his fight with Gaara. Later at the bridge Zetsu shielded Sasuke from a collision returning the favor. Zetsu appears to represents an experiment to combine Senju and Uchiha DNA, to recreate the body of the So6P. The combination has resulted in gaining simillar abilities to Naruto's clones.

Jiraiya:

Spoiler

Now, let me go on record that I am a Jiraiya fan. I know he had a lot of knowledge and power but Nagato had managed to get most of the highest ranked, most talented shinobi even Orochimaru to join, but for whatever reason he avoided doing this with Jiraiya. This seems very strange in light of the fact that Hanzou had dominated Jiraiya earlier in life but spared him, and then later Nagato took out Hanzou. Also, Itachi avoided a conflict with him while together with Kisame which confused Kisame. It was Nagato who confront him shortly after Tobi paid him a visit following Deidara's death. This was also when Tobi began to stop acting like a goofball. At this point Tobi shows more dominance with the Akatsuki, much more than he had ever presented before. There is a very strange moment as Tobi takes umbrance at Kabuto's mention that Jiraiya be brought back in Edo form.

Minato:

Spoiler

Minato seems to know quite a bit from his fight with Tobi. Its said that all a high level shinobi needs in order to understand an opponent is to cross fists with them. I believe Minato knows quite a lot about Tobi and that he left him alive on purpose. Here is where Minato marked Tobi. It appears to have penetrated inside of his body.

You must be registered for see links

and will probably be used by Naruto to follow him wherever and whenever he goes. Here is where Minato could have ended Tobi, but he didn't take the opportunity to finish him.

You must be registered for see links

And, here is Tobi saying the most cliche reference for every time traveling bad guy.

You must be registered for see links

.

Elder and Younger Sons of So6P:

Spoiler

Not much is really known about the elder sons. We know that the elder inherited the Sages eyes and potent Chakra and the younger inherited his body which had amazing stamina and recovery and enormous spiritual energy. The Sage chose the younger son over the older because the older wished to pursue peace through power while the other felt that love and understanding were the keys to overcoming hatred. They spawned the Uchiha and Senju clans and bear striking resemblance to Sasuke and Naruto. The younger son even has a head protector like Naruto but doesn't have the whiskers. It make one wonder, if Kurama is completely pulled from Naruto would he still have whiskers?

Tobi:

Spoiler

Many thing tie both Tobi and Naruto together. They both have an ability to "change people". Tobi was curious how Naruto was able to convert Nagato and wanted to see first hand the person that had caused Nagato to betray him, so he went to Naruto's inn during the Kage meeting arc to converse with him. This would have been an ideal time for Tobi to take Naruto out since only Kakashi and Yamato were there. I believe the reason he didn't is because he needed the timeline to proceed to his own creation. Another curiosity are some actions taken by Tobi. He pauses, lingers, and respectfully closes Nagato's eyes following the fight with Konan. He takes umbrance with Kabuto's suggestion that Jiraiya be resurrected telling Kabuto not to push his luck. He has knowledge of some Kakashi's catch phrases about "Acting Tough" and has firsthand knowledge of Kamui and knows that it won't work on him. Both Tobi and Minato have space/time Jutsu and Naruto will probably learn the elements of space/time jutsu as well. Tobi has used chakra chains that are identical to Naruto and Kushina. In chapter 573

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

we see that Tobi was unnerved when Naruto revealed that he knew the names of the tailed beasts. He says "that face". Take a look at the panel preceeding that then compare with the Dark Naruto conflict

You must be registered for see links

. Look similar? Both of them occur when Naruto is taunting an enemy who seems to know everything about him, but he is showing they don't, and their reaction is the same. So, it appears that Tobi has faced Naruto before and that he "knows the extent of his power and what he really is"

You must be registered for see links

. This is probably because he is no longer privy to all of Naruto's knowledge. There was also Tobi's inability to phase through Naruto's head which resulted in the headbutt. I believe this occurred because Naruto had already expunged his darker self, and now it cannot exist in the same space any longer. Tobi is also another word for jump and I believe that he not only jumps from place-to-place but from body-to-body and from time-to-time. Another item that ties most of the antongonists together is the desire to recreate the abilities of the So6P. Zetsu, Danzo, Madara, Orochimaru, Pain, Tobi all seem to be either part of an experiment or an attempt to recreate the So6P abilities. It is the obsession with the So6P's body that is of interest. Let's analyze Tobi's statement. I am Nobody, I am No One. We know the Kishimoto loves word play and who is in need of a body? A recently excommunicated piece of someone's conscious. Tobi's body will probably end up being Kagami atm, but it's the consciousness inhabiting that is the real issue and that consciousness is the darker part of Naruto. When Tobi put his hand on Naruto's head his intention was to pull the other conscious out and use Rinne Tensei to re-occupy. Hence his his comment regarding Nagato that Rinne Tensei was for his use. This consciousness seems to have the ability to combine with other consciousness like other Jinchuriki, Sasuke, and tailed beasts, which I believe is a unique ability of the Jinchuriki. Finally we have Tobi's own statement that this war will make all pasts, presents and futures irrelevant. Tobi feels justified in doing anything necessary including wiping out the Uchiha clan. Why? He intends to erase the timeline anyway so none of it will have ever happened.

Kurama

Spoiler

Kurama can recognize Dark Naruto who stated if there was one mistake he had made it was letting the Kyuubi catch site of him. Naruto's darker side wanted to grow strong and take revenge on those that tortured him, while Naruto chose to forgive. Later when Naruto rid himself of his darkness and confronted the Kyuubi, Kurama asked where the real Naruto was and recognized that he was dealing with a completely different person. Later in the struggle it looks as though Naruto might be overcome with the hatred of the Kyuubi and Kishi presents us with this image

You must be registered for see links

It was very dramatic and a huge departure from the rest of the manga. It shows several souls in anguish. Some are asking Naruto for help, others telling him not to bother and wishing he weren't there, and others blaming Naruto for their torment. If these were the representation of the Leaf villagers when he was a kid, some of the comments are really out of place. The comment asking him "not to bother" is a very specific one that speaks to someone that knows what an outcome will be and doesn't want it to occur, this comment is foretelling Naruto's decision will result in their anguish.

Conclusion:

Spoiler

We should consider what the Sage Toad said to Jiraiya "You will have a disciple that will either save or condemn the world". Analyze that statement from a writer's perspective. Why would you have the negative there? You could just as easily say to Jiraiya "you will have a disciple that will save the world." So the fact that it is mentioned means that the writer is going to use it, and that it is a main part of the storyline. Kishi has already provided an easy out as to why the Sage Toad doesn't remember Naruto as being the So6P. He forgets who people are, a little bit lame but there you have it (or considering Hanzou maybe it's an amphibian trait). Another foretelling comes from the S06P about the future, but is he talking about the future or his own past when speaking to the tailed beasts? There are additional hints like Minato saying that as long as a Ninja System remains there will probably not be any peace. Jiraiya saying that someday he would have a student that would correct his past mistakes. Tobi saying this War will make all pasts presents and futures irrelevant. Even Kyuubi says to Naruto, if things are unbearable then he should "Erase Everything". The whole of Narutoverse seems to be stuck in temporal loop (like Izanagi, but not illusion) that occurred when Naruto made the wrong choice at the waterfall trying to gain control of the Kyuubi. He made the decision to try and expell his hatred, which resulted in the mistake and like Izanagi it must be corrected in order to escape. As Itachi said Naruto must accept and forgive himself in order to be the strong one and the So6P told the tailed beasts to follow the strong one. The story is much like the Buddhist cycle of rebirth. You continue to be reborn and are trapped in a loop, but you have the opportunity to pursue enlightenment, which will hopefully lead to Nirvana and end the cycle of birth as you obtain oneness with all.

Valid points , I read it all.



Well in my opinion :

Kishi has practicaly showed us , that Naruto is the Rikudo Sennin reborn.

Tobi is most likely best developed character.



All of the events in the past , make sense = and tie together , when compared , I think , that there are no plot holes of somekind = only unanswered things = wat will be answered eventualy in the future.


Thanks for sharing + rep.​

 

[Edge]

((sigh))

You must be registered for see links

And?

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Valid points , I read it all.



Well in my opinion :

Kishi has practicaly showed us , that Naruto is the Rikudo Sennin reborn.

Tobi is most likely best developed character.



All of the events in the past , make sense = and tie together , when compared , I think , that there are no plot holes of somekind = only unanswered things = wat will be answered eventualy in the future.


Thanks for sharing + rep.​

Thanks. Yeah, I'm hoping folks can flame it so I can sharpen it up some. The whole theory of course hinges on a non-linear timeline, so if folks don't agree with that then there isn't much point in debating. Of course there is precedence for time travel or alternate dimension when you consider things like Izanami, Space/Time migration jutsu, even "Road to Ninja" seems to offer up an alternate timeline. If folks are open to a non-linear timeline it makes a lot of sense.

I did notice that I spaced at the end and started putting Izanagi instead of Izanami but folks should know what I meant.

Another item that I left off was this. When Sasuke was in Tobi's hideout while Sasuke was recovering from his battle with Itachi, Tobi talked about the Uchiha past and mentions the Kyubi attack from 16 years ago. He says it was a random coincedence. What does he fail to mention? Tobi admits to assisting with the Uchiha massacre, he admits to a grudge against the Uchiha clan, he makes no secret of his his desire to capture the Kyubi or the Moons Eye Plan. The only thing he doesn't mention is that Naruto's birth is tied to the event. Tobi doesn't fear that Sasuke will attack him. He is just protecting his link to Naruto

 

[Amelius]

Thanks. Yeah, I'm hoping folks can flame it so I can sharpen it up some. The whole theory of course hinges on a non-linear timeline, so if folks don't agree with that then there isn't much point in debating. Of course there is precedence for time travel or alternate dimension when you consider things like Izanami, Space/Time migration jutsu, even "Road to Ninja" seems to offer up an alternate timeline. If folks are open to a non-linear timeline it makes a lot of sense.

I did notice that I spaced at the end and started putting Izanagi instead of Izanami but folks should know what I meant.

Another item that I left off was this. When Sasuke was in Tobi's hideout while Sasuke was recovering from his battle with Itachi, Tobi talked about the Uchiha past and mentions the Kyubi attack from 16 years ago. He says it was a random coincedence. What does he fail to mention? Tobi admits to assisting with the Uchiha massacre, he admits to a grudge against the Uchiha clan, he makes no secret of his his desire to capture the Kyubi or the Moons Eye Plan. The only thing he doesn't mention is that Naruto's birth is tied to the event. Tobi doesn't fear that Sasuke will attack him. He is just protecting his link to Naruto

I like your way of thinking. My only theory on why he failed to mention Naruto's birth along with kurama's attack of the village, which tobi orchestrated would be that because of the that incident, the elders of the village began questioning the uchiha involvment, which then lead to them being well outcasted, which then lead to the plan for the coup d'etat, which lead to itachi's massacre of his clan, which then lead to what we have now. That one incident puts ALL the blame staight on tobi, the reason sasuke's clan is gone, his hatred. all of it all tobi's fault. Why risk sasuke coming to that conclusion? This is what first comes to mind, dont have any real evidence to support this atm.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

I like your way of thinking. My only theory on why he failed to mention Naruto's birth along with kurama's attack of the village, which tobi orchestrated would be that because of the that incident, the elders of the village began questioning the uchiha involvment, which then lead to them being well outcasted, which then lead to the plan for the coup d'etat, which lead to itachi's massacre of his clan, which then lead to what we have now. That one incident puts ALL the blame staight on tobi, the reason sasuke's clan is gone, his hatred. all of it all tobi's fault. Why risk sasuke coming to that conclusion? This is what first comes to mind, dont have any real evidence to support this atm.

Yes, but the resentment and perception of unfairness was already there with the Uchiha. The Kyubi attack just helped push the resentment along. Also, the motivation that precipitated the Uchiha massacre doesn't negate the fact that Tobi was a very willing participant, a fact that he does not try to hide from Sasuke. Even if Tobi were to admit to attacking the village that night, it was still the Elders decision to use Itachi. Why would he feel differently that his clan perceived mistreatment and that the mistreatment was based on false assumptions? They were still mistreated. Sasuke knows that Tobi hates the Leaf village. If the Elders were duped it doesn't matter. They forced the choice on Itachi. No, Tobi is not afraid of retribution from Sasuke. He just doesn't want anyone to discover the event is linked to Naruto birth.

 

[Amelius]

Yes, but the resentment and perception of unfairness was already there with the Uchiha. The Kyubi attack just helped push the resentment along. Also, the motivation that precipitated the Uchiha massacre doesn't negate the fact that Tobi was a very willing participant, a fact that he does not try to hide from Sasuke. Even if Tobi were to admit to attacking the village that night, it was still the Elders decision to use Itachi. Sasuke knows that Tobi hates the Leaf village. If the Elders were duped it doesn't matter. They forced the choice on Itachi. No, Tobi is not afraid of retribution from Sasuke. He just doesn't want anyone to discover the event is linked to Naruto birth.

Yes, I see what you are saying. I guess I'm struggling finding the importance of Naruto's birth. Originally Tobi wanted Kurama and the best moment to do that was well childbirth. How he knew where naruto would be born still puzzles me. I did read your well written detailed theory but I guess I either missed something or it wasnt there because you yourself are unsure of it, But What is the importance of narutos birth in relation to Tobi. I mean he was there and is well responible for naruto becoming Kuramas' host but other then that I think i'm just alittle lost.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Yes, I see what you are saying. I guess I'm struggling finding the importance of Naruto's birth. Originally Tobi wanted Kurama and the best moment to do that was well childbirth. How he knew where naruto would be born still puzzles me. I did read your well written detailed theory but I guess I either missed something or it wasnt there because you yourself are unsure of it, But What is the importance of narutos birth in relation to Tobi. I mean he was there and is well responible for naruto becoming Kuramas' host but other then that I think i'm just alittle lost.

Naruto's alienation by the leaf village is due to Kurama being sealed within him. Even though they don't know exactly what is sealed or all of the details of that night. They link Naruto to that event and mistreat him because of it. Sealing Kurama that night inside of Naruto also sets the stage for Naruto's darkness. Makes sense now? It is a time loop paradox. Tobi ensures his own creation. Don't look for a start point in the timeline. Its a loop there is no start point. Tobi begins the war when? After Naruto's confrontation at the Falls of Truth, where he is released.

 

[Amelius]

Naruto's alienation by the leaf village is due to Kurama being sealed within in him. Even though they don't know exactly what is sealed or all of the details of that night. They link Naruto to that event and mistreat him because of it. Sealing Kurama that night inside of Naruto also sets the stage for Naruto's darkness. Makes sense now? It is a time loop paradox. Tobi ensures his own creation. Don't look for a start point in the timeline. Its a loop there is no start point. Tobi begins the war when? After Naruto's confrontation at the Falls of Truth. Where he is released.

Yea, makes sense. I accidently skipped the part where you detailed tobi being naruto's dark side, which is why I couldnt find the paradox. once I reread it all i was like oh haha there it is.. you miss 2 sentences and nothing made sense! I wouldnt agree that he started the war while naruto was at the Falls though, That may have been when he began to move troops. But he started the war when the kages refused to give him naruto. Which could have also been his plan to get naruto to the Falls ensureing his existence. however since the Falls naruto has grown at a remarkable rate, thus the confusion that is facing tobi, because he thought he knew what "HE" was capable of! Am I close to what you are getting at?

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Yea, makes sense. I accidently skipped the part where you detailed tobi being naruto's dark side, which is why I couldnt find the paradox. once I reread it all i was like oh haha there it is.. you miss 2 sentences and nothing made sense! I wouldnt agree that he started the war while naruto was at the Falls though, That may have been when he began to move troops. But he started the war when the kages refused to give him naruto. Which could have also been his plan to get naruto to the Falls ensureing his existence. however since the Falls naruto has grown at a remarkable rate, thus the confusion that is facing tobi, because he thought he knew what "HE" was capable of! Am I close to what you are getting at?

You're right on target now. . And while he declares War during the Kage meeting before departure to the battlefield he does declare to Zetsu that the time had arrived and this occurred right when Naruto had exorcised his Dark half.

 

[Amelius]

You're right on target now. . And while he declares War during the Kage meeting before departure to the battlefield he does declare to Zetsu that the time had arrived and this occurred right when Naruto had exorcised his Dark half.

Could also explain why Madara smirked when he saw naruto... Since He already knew him in a sense and was impressed by his abilities at this point in naruto's "cycle( if thats a good word for it)"! PURE SPECULATION HERE, and only because it would seem that Tobi and Madara are/were in this plan together.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Could also explain why Madara smirked when he saw naruto... Since He already knew him in a sense and was impressed by his abilities at this point in naruto's "cycle( if thats a good word for it)"! PURE SPECULATION HERE, and only because it would seem that Tobi and Madara are/were in this plan together.

Yep, by all means go back and apply questions against the theory. Tobi is a good boy, why he regrets confronting Shikamaru, why did he act like such a goofball (like naruto), why does he wear a mask (doesn't want to see another man's reflection), why does Kisame recognize him as two different people (he was), what is he after (he wants his body back after being kicked out), all that.

Now the harder part is figuring out Sasuke's tie-in, but I think that he is the elder son and responsible for the Uchiha curse. Hatred fueling the spread of the curse and its progression.

 

[Aze]

Yep, by all means go back and apply questions against the theory. Tobi is a good boy, why he regrets confronting Shikamaru, why did he act like such a goofball (like naruto), why does he wear a mask (doesn't want to see another man's reflection), why does Kisame recognize him as two different people (he was), what is he after (he wants his body back after being kicked out), all that.

Now the harder part is figuring out Sasuke's tie-in, but I think that he is the elder son and responsible for the Uchiha curse. Hatred fueling the spread of the curse and its progression.

Maybe not Elder son , but clearly some one old and with a motive = He is sicken about the world how it's now , He wants to change it.


He does it with the same amount of passion as Naruto does.