Philosophical Contradiction

[saaaaaadpanda]

One of the major themes of Part I was that with hard work and determination, people like these:

Spoiler

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could turn out to be as strong and even surpass their more gifted counterparts, people like these:

Spoiler

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Essentially, it's a hard work beats natural talent argument. While Kishi stressed this, he was really just trolling us.

Let's look at Naruto & Sasuke:

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It would be hard to argue that Naruto hasn't matched and surpassed Sasuke. However, you can't say it's solely through hard work. Unlike Lee, Naruto does have a natural, family talent that stems from his mother, an Uzumaki, and his father, the frickin' Hokage. I'm not even going to get into him being a Jinchuriki. Part I tried to play up his match against Neji in the chunnin exams as one of natural talent vs. determination. It's BS now that we know what Naruto had going for him.

Now, Lee and Neji:

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Lee is the hardest working shinobi in the Narutoverse. He came from nothing, and became a ninja despite having a severe handicap. Nevertheless, did he ever equal Neji? No. Lee's still a Chunin and Neji is the only Jonin of the Konoha 11. Lee still hasn't been shown to be able to take Neji in a fight.

To sum it up, Kishi lied. Times when the so-called no talent person won, they actually had talent/good genes. When a true nobody works their butt off, they don't get as far as the so-called geniuses.

What do you think? Was Kishi trolling us this hard all along?

 

[The Necromancer]

I don't think people will care much... :/

 

[Ghostofthewind]

Hard work beast talent when talent doesn't work hard. When talent works hard or gets a ton of plot no jutsu, hard work gets boned.

 

[Colonel Armstrong]

see you,saaaaaadpanda, are the man

i feel a rep+ is in order

 

[saaaaaadpanda]

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. When talent works hard or gets a ton of plot no jutsu, hard work gets boned.

True, but it seems to me the hardest working people get boned the hardest in this series.

I don't think people will care much... :/

Probably not, but you cared enough to post that useless comment, right? I wanted to post something different than the same 5 threads we see all week.

see you,saaaaaadpanda, are the man

i feel a rep+ is in order

No, I am the Panda. You still make me blush though.

 

[ItachiSan03]

Yep, this is true. I was disappointed by the fact that kishi dropped the whole "work hard and you can achieve anything" theme... Naruto just turned out to have good genes and lee hasnt had his time to shine. Not to mention the hashirama and especially madara thing.

 

[Q of the Sharingan]

Neji isn't the only Jonin of the Konaha 11. Shikamaru is as well. Everything else is true though.

 

[Tartarus]

Yep, this is true. I was disappointed by the fact that kishi dropped the whole "work hard and you can achieve anything" theme... Naruto just turned out to have good genes and lee hasnt had his time to shine. Not to mention the hashirama and especially madara thing.

yeah but only a few of the Uchiha/Senju actually reach legendary status. There have been plenty of characters w/o kkg that have become super powerful like Hiruzen, Minato, and the 3rd Raikage.

 

[teetooktier]

Agree and disagree. 'Hard work' was definitely present in part 1. This is because Part 1 is about 'changing yourself'. This is why kishi focused on characters like Naruto, Lee, Sakura, Inari, Neji, Gaara. However, it would be a major mistake to keep pushing this same theme for part 2; the message would become heavy-handed, stale, and predictable. Kind of like the whole Nakama thing for Fairy Tail. The main theme of part 2 shifted to 'changing others'. That's why Kishi focused on the interactions between Naruto and Chiyo, Naruto and Sai, Naruto and Pein, Naruto and Sasuke, tiny bit of Naruto and Hinata, and finally Naruto trying to change the entire ninja world.

In other words, 'hard work' was necessary in part 1, because it pushes the central theme of 'changing yourself'. It is no longer as important in part 2, because that central theme changed.

 

[Tartarus]

Agree and disagree. 'Hard work' was definitely present in part 1. This is because Part 1 is about 'changing yourself'. This is why kishi focused on characters like Naruto, Lee, Sakura, Inari, Neji, Gaara. However, it would be a major mistake to keep pushing this same theme for part 2; the message would become heavy-handed, stale, and predictable. Kind of like the whole Nakama thing for Fairy Tail. The main theme of part 2 shifted to 'changing others'. That's why Kishi focused on the interactions between Naruto and Chiyo, Naruto and Sai, Naruto and Pein, Naruto and Sasuke, tiny bit of Naruto and Hinata, and finally Naruto trying to change the entire ninja world.

In other words, 'hard work' was necessary in part 1, because it pushes the central theme of 'changing yourself'. It is no longer as important in part 2, because that central theme changed.

well thought out response. Not a lot of people get that the themes change as as a story evolves.