The Unknown
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This is my first post and I want it to be a good one. This thread was originally created by Moplol on the Naruto sub-reddit. I agree with his thoughts and he gave me permission to post this here on NB so here it is (sorry if it's a bit messy):
Hello guys, as a result of the two latest Chapters many people have posted threads that contained/implied false facts about the Rinnegan - Sharingan relation and the serveral forms of Susanoo (Look at these for some examples: First, second third). Since this does quite bother me and the majority of people in the comments didn't seem to have recognized this I decided to do submit this post.
Sharingan/Rinnegan
In the case of the Sharingan and Rinnegan, it seems as people only realized now that Madara used Susanoo while having the Rinnegan activated (while infact he did this way ealier already) and thought that this is because of the "new" Susanoo. This somehow initated/"revived" a certain thought process which leads to the belief that there are Rinnegan and Sharingan exclusive abilities (5 Elements/Ying-Yang/6-Path abilities that are only useable with the Rinnegan and Susanoo/Tsukoyomi/Amaterasu only by switching to the MS/EMS). And I don't want to say that this theory is completly impossible, but I'm pretty sure that after some thinking most people will agree, that the one where the Rinnegan can use every ability of the Sharingan, is infact the theory supported the most by facts and reason. But what are these facts I'm talking about? Well, first of all here are some pages where you can see Madara using Susanoo together with the Rinnegan way before we got to see the Final Form: Page 1, Page 2, Page 3. Furthermore it might be important to point out that from the moment where Madara absorbed that one Fūton Rasenshuriken in Chapter 560 and first showed his Rinnegan he didn't switch back to the EMS once. (This one is only a Mokuton Bunshin, which hadn't activated the Rinnegan in the first place, we can only speculate why Madara created them not to have it, possbily because he can't... I'm drifting away tho, especially because it ultimately doesn't even matter right now). Another notable fact is that the Rinnegan is basically a higher stage of the Sharingan (presumably obtained by having an EMS and Senju DNA) and therefore should inherit all the Jutsus from the EMS. It would afterall be unlogical to see how every ability from the mere Sharingan to the 3/3-Sharingan to the MS to the EMS is kept and transferred and then, even tho having the example of Susanoo, think that from the EMS to the Rinnegan they are not. Also what kind of an "Shonen" Powerupgrade would it be if it requires disadvantageous/annoying switching for the sake of... nothing?! Now you might bring up the example of Nagato (who couldn't use MS abilities with his Sharingan). We can however be quite sure that he has not infact developed it, but got it transplanted into him by Tobi for presumably resurrecting Madara. This can be seen by this three statements: Tobi on Nagato reviving Konoha Shinobis, Tobi on Nagatos Rinnegan, Madara after he was brought back by the Edo Tensei. And as we all know (from examples like Kakashi) transplanted Eyes are quite tricky and might not follow the standard rules. Last minor objection to this theory: Why hasn't he used Amaterasu or Tsukoyomi with the Rinnegan yet? Well pretty much because "He went easy on us!" and "Would an adult ever seriously fight with a pebble?"
Alright, this was my first concern. Now to my second one:
Susanoo
There is a specific way of how Susano's work, for example there is an exact "Form Hierarchy". People who call Madaras Final Susanoo featured in Chapter 588 and 589 "Perfect" "New" "Super" or anything like that have failed to grasp this essential detail. I will quote a post I made 4 days ago to clarify things here:
Madaras final Susanoo is actually not a new stage. Both Sasuke and Itachi already have aquired that form, Madara just didn't use it in that fight up until now.
To make that more clear:
1. Only the ribbon cage
2. Skeleton Susanoo = Uncompleted Form
3. Susanoo with muscles and skin = Completed Form
4. Armored Susanoo = Final Form
In Sasukes case his Final Susnoo changed very slighlty after gaining the EMS.
To verify this look at the Narutowiki page. Especially the 2x 6 pictures after scrolling down a little should make things clear.
The only thing I can add today to this is that the Wikipage has updated itself and there are, by now 3x6 pictures that also include Madaras Susanoo stages. It's really well done there and I probably couldn't explain it better anyways, so check it out. As a bonus here is a comparison between Sasukes and Madaras Final Form. So basically what I'm saying is that if Sasuke, would by whatever means, get the Rinnegan, his Sasunoo would still not have one new stage to gain or would drastically change, but at most look slightly different, like when it changed from MS to EMS. Madaras huge and powerfull Final Form is only founded on his massive and strong Chakra Pool (there once even was a statement that said his strong Chakra may have made him live so long). The Rinnegan did probably add nothing to it. This can be said pretty confidently because Tsunade ("Grandpa fought a guy like this?") and Madara (I told you already, only Hashirama is capable of stopping me") are both reffering about him using that Susanoo against Harashima and possibly Tailed Beasts.
Yeah, that was pretty much it. I hope my submission gave some of you inspiration or validation of your thoughts and I would of course appreciate suggestions and constructive critic.
Hello guys, as a result of the two latest Chapters many people have posted threads that contained/implied false facts about the Rinnegan - Sharingan relation and the serveral forms of Susanoo (Look at these for some examples: First, second third). Since this does quite bother me and the majority of people in the comments didn't seem to have recognized this I decided to do submit this post.
Sharingan/Rinnegan
In the case of the Sharingan and Rinnegan, it seems as people only realized now that Madara used Susanoo while having the Rinnegan activated (while infact he did this way ealier already) and thought that this is because of the "new" Susanoo. This somehow initated/"revived" a certain thought process which leads to the belief that there are Rinnegan and Sharingan exclusive abilities (5 Elements/Ying-Yang/6-Path abilities that are only useable with the Rinnegan and Susanoo/Tsukoyomi/Amaterasu only by switching to the MS/EMS). And I don't want to say that this theory is completly impossible, but I'm pretty sure that after some thinking most people will agree, that the one where the Rinnegan can use every ability of the Sharingan, is infact the theory supported the most by facts and reason. But what are these facts I'm talking about? Well, first of all here are some pages where you can see Madara using Susanoo together with the Rinnegan way before we got to see the Final Form: Page 1, Page 2, Page 3. Furthermore it might be important to point out that from the moment where Madara absorbed that one Fūton Rasenshuriken in Chapter 560 and first showed his Rinnegan he didn't switch back to the EMS once. (This one is only a Mokuton Bunshin, which hadn't activated the Rinnegan in the first place, we can only speculate why Madara created them not to have it, possbily because he can't... I'm drifting away tho, especially because it ultimately doesn't even matter right now). Another notable fact is that the Rinnegan is basically a higher stage of the Sharingan (presumably obtained by having an EMS and Senju DNA) and therefore should inherit all the Jutsus from the EMS. It would afterall be unlogical to see how every ability from the mere Sharingan to the 3/3-Sharingan to the MS to the EMS is kept and transferred and then, even tho having the example of Susanoo, think that from the EMS to the Rinnegan they are not. Also what kind of an "Shonen" Powerupgrade would it be if it requires disadvantageous/annoying switching for the sake of... nothing?! Now you might bring up the example of Nagato (who couldn't use MS abilities with his Sharingan). We can however be quite sure that he has not infact developed it, but got it transplanted into him by Tobi for presumably resurrecting Madara. This can be seen by this three statements: Tobi on Nagato reviving Konoha Shinobis, Tobi on Nagatos Rinnegan, Madara after he was brought back by the Edo Tensei. And as we all know (from examples like Kakashi) transplanted Eyes are quite tricky and might not follow the standard rules. Last minor objection to this theory: Why hasn't he used Amaterasu or Tsukoyomi with the Rinnegan yet? Well pretty much because "He went easy on us!" and "Would an adult ever seriously fight with a pebble?"
Alright, this was my first concern. Now to my second one:
Susanoo
There is a specific way of how Susano's work, for example there is an exact "Form Hierarchy". People who call Madaras Final Susanoo featured in Chapter 588 and 589 "Perfect" "New" "Super" or anything like that have failed to grasp this essential detail. I will quote a post I made 4 days ago to clarify things here:
Madaras final Susanoo is actually not a new stage. Both Sasuke and Itachi already have aquired that form, Madara just didn't use it in that fight up until now.
To make that more clear:
1. Only the ribbon cage
2. Skeleton Susanoo = Uncompleted Form
3. Susanoo with muscles and skin = Completed Form
4. Armored Susanoo = Final Form
In Sasukes case his Final Susnoo changed very slighlty after gaining the EMS.
To verify this look at the Narutowiki page. Especially the 2x 6 pictures after scrolling down a little should make things clear.
The only thing I can add today to this is that the Wikipage has updated itself and there are, by now 3x6 pictures that also include Madaras Susanoo stages. It's really well done there and I probably couldn't explain it better anyways, so check it out. As a bonus here is a comparison between Sasukes and Madaras Final Form. So basically what I'm saying is that if Sasuke, would by whatever means, get the Rinnegan, his Sasunoo would still not have one new stage to gain or would drastically change, but at most look slightly different, like when it changed from MS to EMS. Madaras huge and powerfull Final Form is only founded on his massive and strong Chakra Pool (there once even was a statement that said his strong Chakra may have made him live so long). The Rinnegan did probably add nothing to it. This can be said pretty confidently because Tsunade ("Grandpa fought a guy like this?") and Madara (I told you already, only Hashirama is capable of stopping me") are both reffering about him using that Susanoo against Harashima and possibly Tailed Beasts.
Yeah, that was pretty much it. I hope my submission gave some of you inspiration or validation of your thoughts and I would of course appreciate suggestions and constructive critic.
