(SPOILER) Uchiha Madara misconception.

[Anorien16]

You have a loophole. The countries did not have any Bijuu's. Hashirama handed them out after Madara's fight when he had all 9 of them.

hmm kinda right, But hashi had them set loose in his village then? Also if they were so gentle why did they turn not so gentle after words? goku said none (untill naruto) paid them respect. Does that give some indication?

 

[Nine]

hmm kinda right, But hashi had them set loose in his village then? Also if they were so gentle why did they turn not so gentle after words? goku said none (untill naruto) paid them respect. Does that give some indication?

Maybe Hashirama himself was a jinchuriki. People bring Mito into the fight which is far fetched. Kushina mentions that she and Mito were born with great chakra reserves and were perfect to be jinchuriki for "Nine Tails". Hashirama did not have the nine tails and he could easily have other beasts in himself, maybe not all of them but at least a few. Who knows, he may have had other ways of sealing them with Mokuton and just drawing on their chakra.

 

[Anorien16]

Maybe Hashirama himself was a jinchuriki. People bring Mito into the fight which is far fetched. Kushina mentions that she and Mito were born with great chakra reserves and were perfect to be jinchuriki for "Nine Tails". Hashirama did not have the nine tails and he could easily have other beasts in himself, maybe not all of them but at least a few. Who knows, he may have had other ways of sealing them with Mokuton and just drawing on their chakra.

I mostly agree with u, but i think even if he was a jink he wldnt have a FEW of them inside, its bit a unsual as sealing two or more jinks togethers as it may begin to fuse them (doesnt tobi want to do the same thing?). But it may be a possibility. Plus mito being there is a bad attempt to discreadit hashi, cos a scene of their fight was shown in the manga and it didnt have mito in it.

 

[ronus]

I think you have got it wrong.
1. Susano'o is basically a technique for Uchihas. Meaning they could clearly use it too fullest provided that they have enough juice in them.
2. Hashirama clearly fought against Madara's Susano's(the perfect one). And Clearly Hashirama was too strong even For Madara with his perfect Susano'o to Handle.
3. Do you really think Sasuke would use his Susano'o fullest power to deal with lowly Zetsu??
4. Tsunade was just making an Expression: How could he have dealt with such a monster with another Monster backing him up?
5. Haven't you seen Naruto's powerups? If Madara were to be such a weakling to not even have Perfect Susano'o then there is no point of EMS being such a powerful eye. EMS should be strong enough to take on Naruto in Bijuu Mode.. That is my Logic.

I think Kishi did a great Job in creating such strong characters after all there should be some who could match up their powers with Tailed Beast and Perfect Jinchuriki.

 

[-Logic-]

I think you have got it wrong.
1. Susano'o is basically a technique for Uchihas. Meaning they could clearly use it too fullest provided that they have enough juice in them.

2. Hashirama clearly fought against Madara's Susano's(the perfect one). And Clearly Hashirama was too strong even For Madara with his perfect Susano'o to Handle.

3. Do you really think Sasuke would use his Susano'o fullest power to deal with lowly Zetsu??

4. Tsunade was just making an Expression: How could he have dealt with such a monster with another Monster backing him up?

5. Haven't you seen Naruto's powerups? If Madara were to be such a weakling to not even have Perfect Susano'o then there is no point of EMS being such a powerful eye. EMS should be strong enough to take on Naruto in Bijuu Mode.. That is my Logic.

I think Kishi did a great Job in creating such strong characters after all there should be some who could match up their powers with Tailed Beast and Perfect Jinchuriki.

1) Exactly, and the Rinnegan also belongs to the Uchiha.
2) Prove it?
3) He doesn't have the perfect Susano'o. Believe me.
4) Hashirama did win after all... right? :noc:
5) Madara would probably loose without the Rinnegan.
6) Agreed, but PS requires the Rinnegan. I'm telling you.

 

[ronus]

Maybe Hashirama himself was a jinchuriki. People bring Mito into the fight which is far fetched. Kushina mentions that she and Mito were born with great chakra reserves and were perfect to be jinchuriki for "Nine Tails". Hashirama did not have the nine tails and he could easily have other beasts in himself, maybe not all of them but at least a few. Who knows, he may have had other ways of sealing them with Mokuton and just drawing on their chakra.

If Hashi were a Jin then Madara would clearly have mentioned that. I think You are Underestimating Hashirama after all those things Madara said about him. Hashirama left Madara in Near death situation(we could call it a dead situation).
And Clearly Madara could use Perfect Susano'o then as well(some people just over analyze things). Well Hashirama had Mukton and its quite powerful as well(we all have seen it). So I think Like Madara and his Susano'o Hashirama and His Moktun were as powerful to take on Tailed Beast..

 

[MickNerks]

One thing that many people believe is that Madara fought against Hashirama with such a perfect Susano'o. It's become clear to me that he did not. Think about it. A sword which destroys everything in it's path. Nothing could possibly have survived that. I understand that Hashirama's Mokuton may have allowed him to win the battle, but against a Susano'o like that? I doubt it. The reason why I say he didn't fight against this Susano'o is because of my thread. "

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." My thread points out that one cannot have the PS (Perfect Susano'o) without the Rinnegan. This is because throughout the series whenever Sasuke went from MS to EMS his Susano'o improved drastically. I don't see how without the Rinnegan Madara's Susano'o "magically transformed" into the PS.

To back this up I've got some manga pages. The information I've deduced was apparent to me from the start, but it may confuse some of you. So re-read the page to absorb the information.

Spoiler

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Here in the latest chapter we see Tsunade asking Madara if Hashirama really fought against the PS. Madara doesn't answer. I think he was either ashamed of his loss, or he was too busy having fun with the Kages. Why wouldn't he answer? I don't understand. Perhaps Madara didn't really care but who knows.

This part of the thread is more of a guess then a proper analysis but I'd like to share it anyway. Observe Madara's statement in the bottom left corner. "Only the Bijuu have a power comparable to this."

Spoiler

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I'm sure we all know that Hashirama tamed several Bijuus and handed them out to different villages, but perhaps, just like Naruto, he established an emotional connection with them, and as a result perhaps the Bijuus offered to fight Madara for reassurance. Him against Hashirama + 2 or 3 Bijuus would be overkill.

Thanks for reading. What do you guys think?

+ rep.. I just want people to see that hashirama didnt fight this OP Madara.

 

[ronus]

1) Exactly, and the Rinnegan also belongs to the Uchiha.
2) Prove it?
3) He doesn't have the perfect Susano'o. Believe me.
4) Hashirama did win after all... right? :noc:
5) Madara would probably loose without the Rinnegan.
6) Agreed, but PS requires the Rinnegan. I'm telling you.

Well
Susano'o differs from person to person. All Susano'o that we have seen are different and so are their powers and techniques. I bet that Sasuke will get his Susanoo's perfect form without awakening Rinnegan. After what we have seen till now Sasuke ain't any impressive with his EMS. He is no where near Naruto.. So I think he clearly will have Perfect Susano'o to match Naruto's Beast Mode..

Lets wait and see.. You might as well be correct..

 

[-Logic-]

Well
Susano'o differs from person to person. All Susano'o that we have seen are different and so are their powers and techniques. I bet that Sasuke will get his Susanoo's perfect form without awakening Rinnegan. After what we have seen till now Sasuke ain't any impressive with his EMS. He is no where near Naruto.. So I think he clearly will have Perfect Susano'o to match Naruto's Beast Mode..

Lets wait and see.. You might as well be correct..

Go read the thread in my signature, it will change your mind, surely.

 

[MadaraHashirama]

Another Uchiha fanboy denying the truth, the only one stopping Madara now is Hashirama, said by your precious Uchiha Madara.
Madara used Meteors, Mokuton, Rinnegan, Perfect Susano'o and still admitted that Hashirama can stop him, Madara knows what he is capable of now.
Today these Uchiha fanboys are pitiful, just give it up

 

[-Logic-]

Another Uchiha fanboy denying the truth, the only one stopping Madara now is Hashirama, said by your precious Uchiha Madara.
Madara used Meteors, Mokuton, Rinnegan, Perfect Susano'o and still admitted that Hashirama can stop him, Madara knows what he is capable of now.
Today these Uchiha fanboys are pitiful, just give it up

Whatever you say. State an opinion without any evidence, and start ranting. You're quite the intellectual, are you not? If you dislike fanboys then go away.

 

[ronus]

I read your thread, it was Impressive analysis. Though I still think his Susano'o real form has nothing to do with Obtaining Rinnegan or hashirama's cell.
Here is one thread I found related please read it if you can:

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Well the scenario, he clearly didn't have Rinnegan Back then. So How do you think he made such a mess without his perfect Susano'o?? {Without it he wouldn't be a match for such high scale jutsus' of Hashirama: Flower forest and that normal forest tech(well sorry I forgot the real names).- Not much relevant to current discussion}

Just take a note:"THE VIEW"

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[Anorien16]

Ok another few point popped up:
1. Madara awakened his rinnegan shortly b4 dieing right? And if madara died in (or shortly after) his battle with hashi (Sharingan, MS etc are obtained under extreme mental pressure conditions, and i dont know anyone but hashi who can give madara trouble and cause extreme emotions enough or push him to his limit of his power, to awaken rinnegan) does not that mean, madara was fighting hashi with rinnegan at the end portion of the battle and still hashi defeated him?
2. I dont think Rinne is needed to perfect susano, as it is a strictly MS jutsu, he might have perfected it with years of practice (Parctise makes perfect), just as Itachi was able to complete his susano with third armour along with OP equips WITHOUT EMS (unlike sasuke).
3. Also madara died in his youth (he still has black hair) as proved from his edo.
4. I think hashi cells are a recent addition, just like tobi's jink's are with sharingan and rinne, so he souldnt have mastered his full use yet and wld not know how it affected his other techniques, so wld he know his susano is perfected or not?

 

[-Logic-]

Ok another few point popped up:
1. Madara awakened his rinnegan shortly b4 dieing right? And if madara died in (or shortly after) his battle with hashi (Sharingan, MS etc are obtained under extreme mental pressure conditions, and i dont know anyone but hashi who can give madara trouble and cause extreme emotions enough or push him to his limit of his power, to awaken rinnegan) does not that mean, madara was fighting hashi with rinnegan at the end portion of the battle and still hashi defeated him?

2. I dont think Rinne is needed to perfect susano, as it is a strictly MS jutsu, he might have perfected it with years of practice (Parctise makes perfect), just as Itachi was able to complete his susano with third armour along with OP equips WITHOUT EMS (unlike sasuke).

3. Also madara died in his youth (he still has black hair) as proved from his edo.

4. I think hashi cells are a recent addition, just like tobi's jink's are with sharingan and rinne, so he souldnt have mastered his full use yet and wld not know how it affected his other techniques, so wld he know his susano is perfected or not?

1) I'm pretty sure he didn't use the Rinnegan in battle. His chakra must have already been exhausted.

2) Strictly MS? Is that why it improves when you awaken the EMS? :sy:

3) Agreed.

4) I agree he shouldn't have mastered all the Rinnegan abilities yet, but the Susano'o comes with the MS he must have already been very masterful.

 

[MadaraHashirama]

Whatever you say. State an opinion without any evidence, and start ranting. You're quite the intellectual, are you not? If you dislike fanboys then go away.

State an opinion without any evidence? Tsunade questioned herself if Hashirama really fought against a "someone" like that in which Madara answered "I already told you that the only one who can stop me is Hashirama"

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Notice how it's Madara talking to Tsunade as he says in a sentence afterwards: "Plus, I should say that it's probably a good thing for you(Tsunade) that he is not here."
"Because if I'm the only one here... The extent to which the maps will need to be redrawn won't be too drastic"
again he says how if Hashirama was there now, and they would fight again, the damage would be "drastic".

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Again, this was after Madara has done Mokuton, Meteors, Rinnegan, Perfect Susano'o, still admitting that the only one capable of stopping him is Hashirama and if they would have a fight now the damage would be drastic because both of them would do much more damage than Edo Madara himself.

Madara has been praising Hashirama the whole time while using Meteors, Mokuton, Rinnegan, Susano'o, etc... Hashirama is simply stronger then Madara

 

[-Logic-]

State an opinion without any evidence? Tsunade questioned herself if Hashirama really fought against a "someone" like that in which Madara answered "I already told you that the only one who can stop me is Hashirama"

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Notice how it's Madara talking to Tsunade as he says in a sentence afterwards: "Plus, I should say that it's probably a good thing for you(Tsunade) that he is not here."
"Because if I'm the only one here... The extent to which the maps will need to be redrawn won't be too drastic"
again he says how if Hashirama was there now, and they would fight again, the damage would be "drastic".

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Again, this was after Madara has done Mokuton, Meteors, Rinnegan, Perfect Susano'o, still admitting that the only one capable of stopping him is Hashirama and if they would have a fight now the damage would be drastic because both of them would do much more damage than Edo Madara himself.

Madara has been praising Hashirama the whole time while using Meteors, Mokuton, Rinnegan, Susano'o, etc... Hashirama is simply stronger then Madara

You may have convinced me there. It's just hard to believe that a PS like Madara's got destroyed so easily. Sorry if I was being harsh earlier

 

[Anorien16]

1) I'm pretty sure he didn't use the Rinnegan in battle. His chakra must have already been exhausted.

2) Strictly MS? Is that why it improves when you awaken the EMS? :sy:

3) Agreed.

4) I agree he shouldn't have mastered all the Rinnegan abilities yet, but the Susano'o comes with the MS he must have already been very masterful.

1) But am i wrong in my assumption then? Also shortly before means before it was all over, for all u know rinnegan cld have awaken only because he was running out of chakra or felt a terrible need to survive (such things seems to awaken rinnegan as seen in nagato's case, also dont say Tobi implanted them when that ninja attacked them and left konan and uhiko unconcious). U can assume but cant be sure.

2) Itachi had a third armour Susano with OP sword and shield without EMS while Sasuke had only a second armour susano with his MS (Did u notice that?). Also u dont awaken EMS, u implant ur sibling's eyes and add his powers to ur own (Giving u a power boost). Also note that EMS is still actually an MS (Some one else's). So can u imagine what wld have happened if itachi was given ems? And then imagine what wld have happened if madara was given ems who as u said was much more masterful?

 

[-Logic-]

1) But am i wrong in my assumption then? Also shortly before means before it was all over, for all u know rinnegan cld have awaken only because he was running out of chakra or felt a terrible need to survive (such things seems to awaken rinnegan as seen in nagato's case, also dont say Tobi implanted them when that ninja attacked them and left konan and uhiko unconcious). U can assume but cant be sure.

2) Itachi had a third armour Susano with OP sword and shield without EMS while Sasuke had only a second armour susano with his MS (Did u notice that?). Also u dont awaken EMS, u implant ur sibling's eyes and add his powers to ur own (Giving u a power boost). Also note that EMS is still actually an MS (Some one else's). So can u imagine what wld have happened if itachi was given ems? And then imagine what wld have happened if madara was given ems who as u said was much more masterful?

1) Tobi did implant them, he said it himself. Nagato could not have "awoken" the Rinnegan, because you have to advance from the Sharingan, and he never had the Sharingan.

2) That's a good point, but what I meant was about the EMS thing was that Sasuke's Susano'o got a kind of peeling off effect on it's arms, something Itachi never would have been able to get because he doesn't have the EMS.

 

[Anorien16]

1) Tobi did implant them, he said it himself. Nagato could not have "awoken" the Rinnegan, because you have to advance from the Sharingan, and he never had the Sharingan.

2) That's a good point, but what I meant was about the EMS thing was that Sasuke's Susano'o got a kind of peeling off effect on it's arms, something Itachi never would have been able to get because he doesn't have the EMS.

1) I didnt say tobi didnt implant them, but nagato did awaken them and u cant deny this. So judging from what it took nagato to awaken the rinnegan, madara might might have felt the terrible need to survive that awakened his rinnegan. Also its clear that tobi didnt implant rinnegan itself in nagato (as why wld he give them only to take it back, and how the heck did he get his hands on a rinnegan, when clearly orochimaru had madara's body), he might have implanted a normal sharingan eye, that responded to sage's dna in nagato.

2) Did u notice Itachi's susano had a long nose like Madara's stable perfect susano. So does that mean itachi's non ems susano is perfect and stable?

PS is tobi the most truthful person? He said he was madara untill we knew better.

 

[MadaraHashirama]

You may have convinced me there. It's just hard to believe that a PS like Madara's got destroyed so easily. Sorry if I was being harsh earlier

It's ok, just remember that it's not safe to compare a Edo to a non-Edo in power in the first place.
Naruto Bijuu Mode vs Edo Asuma, who would win? Exactly, Naruto can't win because he doesn't have seals as far as we know, does this mean that Asuma > Naruto ? Of course not! Comparing a Edo to a non-Edo is the biggest mistake that ever happend in a forum in my opinion.