Hiruzen Sarutobi: "The GOD of shinobi" arguments
- Thread starter MickNerks
- Start date
Hafiz Dembos
Active member
Just because Kishi makes a certain character say something about another, doesnt automatically make it true or factual.
For Example:
Tobi said he was Madara, is he ?
Nagato was said to be a god by the people in his village and Konan ... Look at him, dead
Orochimaru, Kakuza, Hidan all were said to be immortal ... Oh, their dead too
Minato was said to be insurpassable ... But he doesnt even make top 5 ( debatable )
Sasanoo was said to the best defense .. But its been shattered more than any other "perfect defense" in the series now
All this Hiruzen or Hashirama being stronger is speculation, but i defend the 1st more because his feats are more impressive and weve seen more of his arsenal.
My point is the manga contradicts sometimes .. And to not be some book weenie that abides by what characters say all the time.
For Example:
Tobi said he was Madara, is he ?
Nagato was said to be a god by the people in his village and Konan ... Look at him, dead
Orochimaru, Kakuza, Hidan all were said to be immortal ... Oh, their dead too
Minato was said to be insurpassable ... But he doesnt even make top 5 ( debatable )
Sasanoo was said to the best defense .. But its been shattered more than any other "perfect defense" in the series now
All this Hiruzen or Hashirama being stronger is speculation, but i defend the 1st more because his feats are more impressive and weve seen more of his arsenal.
My point is the manga contradicts sometimes .. And to not be some book weenie that abides by what characters say all the time.
Taiketsu Yagami
Active member
Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype
Hiruzen has a 5 in everything except physical abilities and chakra in the databooks. This means that he is very adept at ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu. If everyone wants to off hype, Hiruzen knows a crap load of jutsus. Im sure out of every jutsu in Konoha, some are bound to be effective, not to mention Monkey King enma at his side.
And Im going to throw something else in there. Hiruzen was alive when both kages were ruling meaning Madara and all those other over powered Uchihas were around too. Yeah Im sure Hashirama and Tobirama didn't teach him a thing or two about the Uchiha's abilities
But what hashirama fanboys (not u specifically) don't take into consideration is that Hiruzen was trained by both the kages that people think are stronger then him. BOTH! He learned everything from them so I don't see why people can't accept that he's stronger then the both of them.
Hiruzen has a 5 in everything except physical abilities and chakra in the databooks. This means that he is very adept at ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu. If everyone wants to off hype, Hiruzen knows a crap load of jutsus. Im sure out of every jutsu in Konoha, some are bound to be effective, not to mention Monkey King enma at his side.
And Im going to throw something else in there. Hiruzen was alive when both kages were ruling meaning Madara and all those other over powered Uchihas were around too. Yeah Im sure Hashirama and Tobirama didn't teach him a thing or two about the Uchiha's abilities
Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype
Not gonna argue the second paragraph cuz its right
Hiruzen was alive at the time .. That doesnt confirm anything about him being able to fight the Sharingan tho. Naruto is alive now and his masters know he has to fight Uchihas, but did Naruto have all kinds of skills and jutsus to counter Uchihas ? No
The Third would lose to every known Uchiha in this series . Sasuke, Madara, Itachi, Shisu would all beat him . . .
Tsunade trained Sakura ... Doesnt mean shes stronger now does it ?But what hashirama fanboys (not u specifically) don't take into consideration is that Hiruzen was trained by both the kages that people think are stronger then him. BOTH! He learned everything from them so I don't see why people can't accept that he's stronger then the both of them.
Hiruzen has a 5 in everything except physical abilities and chakra in the databooks. This means that he is very adept at ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu. If everyone wants to off hype, Hiruzen knows a crap load of jutsus. Im sure out of every jutsu in Konoha, some are bound to be effective, not to mention Monkey King enma at his side.
And Im going to throw something else in there. Hiruzen was alive when both kages were ruling meaning Madara and all those other over powered Uchihas were around too. Yeah Im sure Hashirama and Tobirama didn't teach him a thing or two about the Uchiha's abilities
Not gonna argue the second paragraph cuz its right
Hiruzen was alive at the time .. That doesnt confirm anything about him being able to fight the Sharingan tho. Naruto is alive now and his masters know he has to fight Uchihas, but did Naruto have all kinds of skills and jutsus to counter Uchihas ? No
The Third would lose to every known Uchiha in this series . Sasuke, Madara, Itachi, Shisu would all beat him . . .
naruttebayo
Active member
Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype
and don't forget he pushed kurama out of village by force , he was a spectator cuz he did not have proper jutsu to counter kurama , he fought well till minato's arrival and couldnot do any better cuz minato took it from him , latter he tried to help minato and kushina but you know .........
and you said you laughed when i commented on dan's statement . what is wrong with that theory , that is possible .
what about him fighting edo hashi and edo tobirama same time
and don't forget he pushed kurama out of village by force , he was a spectator cuz he did not have proper jutsu to counter kurama , he fought well till minato's arrival and couldnot do any better cuz minato took it from him , latter he tried to help minato and kushina but you know .........
and you said you laughed when i commented on dan's statement . what is wrong with that theory , that is possible .
Honord Sage
Active member
If He was a god then He would have found a way to stop Orochimaru, and the first and second hokages without calling on the death god to do it.
Taiketsu Yagami
Active member
Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype
Off of hype, the only people in that list that Hiruzen couldn't possibly take on in his prime is Shisui since he can own anyone.
Not right now no... But lets remember, Hashirama and Tobirama died at young ages while Hiruzen had all the time in the world to get stronger. Yeah, everyone else surpassed their masters eventually but Hiruzen didn't? Got it...
Let me stop u right there. J-man taught Naruto about genjutsu and how to dispel it because he knew Naruto would have to fight Sasuke who was an Uchiha.
Off of hype, the only people in that list that Hiruzen couldn't possibly take on in his prime is Shisui since he can own anyone.
Taiketsu Yagami
Active member
Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype
But he still learned about the Uchiha and their genjutsu didn't he?
Wait, Like Madara, Hashi was badly badly badly weakened and hurt after his fight with madara and didn't die right away..We do know that madara was a shell of himself after the fight. COuldn't hashi be? How do we know Oro's edo tensei brought him back to the point when he fought madara?
Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype
its not an assumption . its based off wat they have shown and what Hiruzen hasnt shown. If you think differently, give me a reason why you think he would win.
Not everybody surpasses their master. Kakashi never surpassed Minato and Konohamaru will never surpass naruto.
Of course but not enough to take them on at the time with that alone . Obviously he can now though.
Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype
No need to, they never fought, & Hiruzen still had plenty of jutsu we never saw, like I said they never fought so no results can be posted.... And the only reason the Uchiha are big & bad now is because Kishi has spent numerous episodes, chapters, & pages explaing their past, jutsu, feats etc. We still hardly know anything about Hiruzen, Hashirama, Tobirama, or Minato
Taiketsu Yagami
Active member
Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype
Plus Minato died before he could finish teaching Kakashi
The only reason Konohamaru won't surpass Naruto is due to KAruma and maybe Sage mode (If Konohamaru doesn't learn it too eventually)
As a whole fighter? Well no but in certain aspects he did. Minato could never channel a nature into his rasengan. After Kakashi learned it, he said **** the rasengan and created a more advanced lightning ninjutsu that could punch through almost anything (Even the Raikage's armor) and be manipulated easily unlike the rasengan.
Plus Minato died before he could finish teaching Kakashi
The only reason Konohamaru won't surpass Naruto is due to KAruma and maybe Sage mode (If Konohamaru doesn't learn it too eventually)
But the point was that Naruto learned how to deal with Uchihas.
Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype
Then rasengan is stronger than the chidori.. Ok let me rephrase that "the wind rasengan is stronger thn the chidori". chidori isnt more advanced it was easier to learn thats why he abandoned learning it...
Then rasengan is stronger than the chidori.. Ok let me rephrase that "the wind rasengan is stronger thn the chidori". chidori isnt more advanced it was easier to learn thats why he abandoned learning it...
minatoisagod
Active member
FizzyDrink
Active member
Honestly this WHOLE ENTIRE THREAD is entirely based off of speculation and hype. You say that the manga clearly states that Hiruzen is the stronger? Who exactly said that!!! Nobody. If I remember correctly, it is just said that he was known as a God or something. People overexaggerate. I could say that Santana is a God on the guitar, doesn't make him the best. I only go by feats, and the truth is, we have hardly anything on either side to go by. So currently, there IS no strongest of the two until we have seen them both battle in their prime. Deal with it people. Everyone who thinks Hiruzen is stronger, are entitled to that belief, and everyone who says that Hashirama is better are entitled to theirs, because there is no REAL proof otherwise.