Hashirama > Naruto & Sasuke

[sytren]

In relation to the battle Naruto can't use the kyuubi's power because Hashirama can supress that. He's pretty much like Kurama who gets supressed in the earlier battle, except half that strength.

I already addressed the speed... Hashirama has wood clones that only Madara can distinguish from the real thing, meaning Naruto leaping in with speed will give Hashirama an opportunity to mokuton his ass. He's too reckless and so his speed doesn't help him with Hashirama.

Hashi has wood clones...grats to him. Naruto uses his KM clones to counter wood clones and he can make more due to endless chakra and no fear from kurama. And I think at that point going against 50 or so Km clones at one time...and they all using the high speed to just blaze about and hitting him all at one time while naruto sits back and does a TBB...yea...hashi goes down for the count.

 

[Ryuu..]

Woah woah are you guys calling Naruto smart?! More than that are you calling him smarter than Madara?!

Madara controlling Kurama is Madara controlling Kurama not turning him into just an idiot that doesn't know anything. Madara is a battle genius therefore Kurama's actions, being controlled by a battle genius, and those of the battle genius since he is being controlled by him! Remember he's being controlled. This is not Tobi letting him run loose, and this is not a pissed off Kurama running on a rampage, this is designed battle-used Kurama controlled by Madara. Who says being controlled by Madara would turn you into an idiot?

Madara controlling Kurama means Madara would not be able to fully focus on himself. He would be putting himself at a disadvantage. He would essentially be weakening himself.

Naruto has battle smarts, one cannot deny that. The simple truth is BM Naruto and his Army would just have too much firepower for Hashirama. I won't even bash you because there was a time when I thought the same thing.

 

[sytren]

Woah woah are you guys calling Naruto smart?! More than that are you calling him smarter than Madara?!

Madara controlling Kurama is Madara controlling Kurama not turning him into just an idiot that doesn't know anything. Madara is a battle genius therefore Kurama's actions, being controlled by a battle genius, and those of the battle genius since he is being controlled by him! Remember he's being controlled. This is not Tobi letting him run loose, and this is not a pissed off Kurama running on a rampage, this is designed battle-used Kurama controlled by Madara. Who says being controlled by Madara would turn you into an idiot?

He wasn't controlling him like that. He was more or so aiming his anger towards hashi. It's not like naruto and kurama where they can talk and devise a plan in their head instantly hours to them talking would be like a split second. Madara couldn't do that with kurama.

 

[ElectricClover]

Hashi has wood clones...grats to him. Naruto uses his KM clones to counter wood clones and he can make more due to endless chakra and no fear from kurama. And I think at that point going against 50 or so Km clones at one time...and they all using the high speed to just blaze about and hitting him all at one time while naruto sits back and does a TBB...yea...hashi goes down for the count.

If Naruto is sitting back to do a TBB Hashirama will recognize him, will he not? And most likely being melded with wood and unknown to all the KM clones, he wraps mokuton around the real Naruto and supresses Kurama.

 

[Nidaime Pupil]

People need to stop overrating hashirama. Edo madara is making him look better than he is but for people who can stand back and think will recognise this whilst the slower people it will take time to sink in.

Naruto will take hashirama to high diff if he was to win. Adding ems sasuke to it, is just stupidity. Anyway team 2 mid diff

This is not a versus thread up to debate lol. I'm jk but here is the deal - the jury is still out on Naruto + Kurama chakra level 50% or 100% which largely affected the creation of this thread. I think his Yin form lends credit to the argument that his chakra is slightly diminished. Your overrating of Sasuke is interesting though it is almost as if you forget that he beat EMS MADARA and 100% KURAMA no discrepancies. Is it silly to include him? Are you suggesting the Sauce is > EMS Madara? I would have to disagree there.

The point is this. Naruto will one day be stronger if he is not already stronger.

FORGOT TO INCLUDE THIS IN OP - PLOT NO JUTSU SKEWS ALL OF THIS SO IT IS ALL A LITTLE RIDICULOUS THANKS TO PLOT NO JUTSU.

 

[sytren]

If Naruto is sitting back to do a TBB Hashirama will recognize him, will he not? And most likely being melded with wood and unknown to all the KM clones, he wraps mokuton around the real Naruto and supresses Kurama.

Sure assuming he has time to do it going against 50 km clones. that are moving extrmely fast and hitting extremely strong. I mean honestly though...other than we know he beat madara with a rampaging kurama and know he can heal instantly and control wood. We dont know of his skills cause its never been shown. For all we know kurama could have broke free and helped hashi fight madara. we dont know cause it hasn't been shown yet.

 

[Nidaime Pupil]

Madara controlling Kurama means Madara would not be able to fully focus on himself. He would be putting himself at a disadvantage. He would essentially be weakening himself.

Naruto has battle smarts, one cannot deny that. The simple truth is BM Naruto and his Army would just have too much firepower for Hashirama. I won't even bash you because there was a time when I thought the same thing.

You'll notice I used your thread in the OP. I think Naruto is on the cusp of being stronger (if not, again, already stronger which is possible). Very very soon in the future there will be no doubt he is stronger than Hashirama.

 

[Exaar]

If Naruto is sitting back to do a TBB Hashirama will recognize him, will he not? And most likely being melded with wood and unknown to all the KM clones, he wraps mokuton around the real Naruto and supresses Kurama.

Naurto isn't that stupid.

He already Learnt that from his fight in Neji.

Keeping yourself at a safe distance and using a blatantly obvious attack would get you caught easily, even naruto knows this, he could just as well set a Trap and make a clone do that, just like he did Vs Neji.

He did the Same Vs Kakuzu, He use a obvious frontal attack to keep his attention away from the "clones" behind him.

 

[Midday]

Props to this thread before we begin.

You must be registered for see links

I can only imagine what this idea will do to some people but just think about it. Very. Carefully

Some people will argue that the current Kurama inside Naruto is only at 50% chakra, others disagree. For arguments sake, lets assume he is at 100%. Madara fought Hashirama with NO DOUBT 100%, full sized, Kurama which is essentially the crux of Naruto's power and lost. He was also fighting Madara with EMS which doesn't even need to be argued that he was stronger than Sasuke does it? He definitely had Susano'o, some people will refuse to believe he had complete Susano'o but at least he had some sort of Susano'o and was defeated. If you ask me? He had complete Susano'o, why not Sasuke and Itachi have it without the Rinnegan. And STILL he lost to Hashirama. I digress.

How did this happen???

My theory is that Hashirama is the original wielder of the Mokuton and he could use those techniques on such a scale as that he could control the beasts (something neither Hiruzen nor Minato could do **AHEM AHEM COUGH COUGH***) and defeat a combined Madara Kurama - essentially Sasuke & Naruto. This was also stated by Madara the man himself.

IMPORTANT NOTE: We haven't seen exactly what Hashirama could do unless revealed later by Kishi. We HAVE seen Madara use his techniques, but this is not Hashirama himself, and he have seen a watered down Orochimaru controlled Edo version of his techniques, still not the complete limit of what the man could do.

The point? Come on people give the credit the man deserves. He being a full Senju inherited the chakra from the sage and he truly is testament to that power and how it could decimate others with huge chakra levels. Chakra that tamed the beasts. Shodaime Hokageshodaimeicon:

Little disclaimer: Naruto will surpass himxd

People come up with some shitty reasoning on this site. There's a huge difference between a perfect jinchuurik and bijuu.

When the 9 tails was sealed in it had it's yang(or yin) chakra sealed in Naruto. Why wouldn't the chakra regenerate over the 16 years, it just means he now has 100% yang chakra rather than a balance. It doesn't make it weaker than it was 16 years ago.

Hashirama's mokuton has the ability to suppress tailed beasts I don't count that as a measure of his strength just like Yammato stopping 4 tails Naruto easily, it just means he's got an efficient technique to stop the 9 tails.

Hashirama wouldn't even be able to catch Naruto let alone suppress his chakra, also Naruto's bm isn't sold it's just a chakra shape so why would wood be able to latch onto it and suppress it?

If Naruto was fully rested, Hashirama's got to deal with Bm Naruto and an army of km and sm clones. Also don't make out like sage mode can't do anything when it clearly can, it can sense danger easily increased strength and speed so it can dodge mokuton easily and he also has other sage techniques, like that frog fist. After all of that you want to add ems Sasuke?

Naruto takes Hashirma mid diff.

 

[ElectricClover]

Naurto isn't that stupid.

He already Learnt that from his fight in Neji.

Keeping yourself at a safe distance and using a blatantly obvious attack would get you caught easily, even naruto knows this, he could just as well set a Trap and make a clone do that, just like he did Vs Neji.

He did the Same Vs Kakuzu, He use a obvious frontal attack to keep his attention away from the "clones" behind him.

I was just responding to sytren's assertion that Naruto would hang back. I don't honestly believe he would do that. If Naruto "traps" Hashirama 99% chance its his wood clone and Naruto's just revealed his real self to a hidden Hashirama.

I'm not trying to underestimate Naruto but I think it's safe to say that Hashirama is smarter than him.

 

[Bijuu mode naruto]

yh but Naruto is stronger than 50 percent 9 tails

meaning both of them together are stronger then 100 percent 9 tails

 

[Ryuu..]

I also argued

You must be registered for see links

, yonks after i'd made that false one (last page mainly).

 

[Nidaime Pupil]

People come up with some shitty reasoning on this site. There's a huge difference between a perfect jinchuurik and bijuu.

When the 9 tails was sealed in it had it's yang(or yin) chakra sealed in Naruto. Why wouldn't the chakra regenerate over the 16 years, it just means he now has 100% yang chakra rather than a balance. It doesn't make it weaker than it was 16 years ago.

Hashirama's mokuton has the ability to suppress tailed beasts I don't count that as a measure of his strength just like Yammato stopping 4 tails Naruto easily, it just means he's got an efficient technique to stop the 9 tails.

Hashirama wouldn't even be able to catch Naruto let alone suppress his chakra, also Naruto's bm isn't sold it's just a chakra shape so why would wood be able to latch onto it and suppress it?

If Naruto was fully rested, Hashirama's got to deal with Bm Naruto and an army of km and sm clones. Also don't make out like sage mode can't do anything when it clearly can, it can sense danger easily increased strength and speed so it can dodge mokuton easily and he also has other sage techniques, like that frog fist. After all of that you want to add ems Sasuke?

Naruto takes Hashirma mid diff.

Let's talk about shitty reasoning and I'll take you back to math class ok? The moment 50% of his yang chakra is sealed, he has 100% yin chakra remaining - 100% because that's all that's left but it is still 50% of the original chakra. You can't just assume that that yin chakra which is already 100% of the yin chakra that Kurama possessed originally will just grow out of nowhere to fill the Yang chakra's spot and essentially be 200% what it was originally. WHERE DA FUQ DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS STUFF? That is shitty reasoning my friend you can't just make shit up. Why wouldn't it return? IT WAS SEALED BY THE DEATH GOD SAME REASON MINATO DOESN'T JUST COME WALTZING BACK TO KONOHA NOR ANY OF THE OTHER HOKAGES. SMACK MY ****ING HEAD.

 

[Nidaime Pupil]

yh but Naruto is stronger than 50 percent 9 tails

meaning both of them together are stronger then 100 percent 9 tails

hah I disagree but it'd be nice if this were true.

I also argued

You must be registered for see links

, yonks after i'd made that false one (last page mainly).

And you've argued, quite explicitly, that Hashirama is > BM Naruto. Can't take all this flip-flopping.

But I'd like to hear everyone.

 

[Midday]

Let's talk about shitty reasoning and I'll take you back to math class ok? The moment 50% of his yang chakra is sealed, he has 100% yin chakra remaining - 100% because that's all that's left but it is still 50% of the original chakra. You can't just assume that that yin chakra which is already 100% of the yin chakra that Kurama possessed originally will just grow out of nowhere to fill the Yang chakra's spot and essentially be 200% what it was originally. WHERE DA FUQ DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS STUFF? That is shitty reasoning my friend you can't just make shit up. Why wouldn't it return? IT WAS SEALED BY THE DEATH GOD SAME REASON MINATO DOESN'T JUST COME WALTZING BACK TO KONOHA NOR ANY OF THE OTHER HOKAGES. SMACK MY ****ING HEAD.

This is how I see it. 9 tails has 100 units of chakra 50 being yang the other 50 yin. When it was sealed he currently has 50 units of yang he can hold up to 100 units of chakra with 50 empty. Over the 16 years it regenerates to it's full capacity of 100 chakra units but this time 100 yang rather than the 50/50 combination of yin and yang.

I also thought most of your argument was crap not just the chakra thing.

 

[Nidaime Pupil]

This is how I see it. 9 tails has 100 units of chakra 50 being yang the other 50 ying. When it was sealed he currently has 50 units of yang he can hold up to 100 units of chakra with 50 empty. Over the 16 years it regenerates to it's full capacity of 100 chakra units but this time 100 yang rather than the 50/50 combination of ying and yang.

I also thought most of your argument was crap not just the chakra thing.

No I get what you're saying and I understand why real logic, my logic, seemed shitty to you because now I see your logic.

First of, it's Yin and do you think they are the same? No! They are different for a reason otherwise it'd be just "Chakra" you cannot just replenish one with the other if they are different. I want Ketchup and Mustard on this hotdog, I'm out of Mustard but I want both so if i just put twice as much Ketchup it's the same as having Mustard on there? No! I want Red and Blue but I'm out of red so just adding twice as much blue will give the same result (purple)? No! This analogy is a little silly but they are not the same thing you cannot just replenish one with the other but I understand your thinking. Also if that were the case THEN WHAT WAS THE POINT OF SEALING HALF THE CHAKRA IN THE FIRST PLACE BY MINATO?

 

[Ryuu..]

hah I disagree but it'd be nice if this were true.



And you've argued, quite explicitly, that Hashirama is > BM Naruto. Can't take all this flip-flopping.

But I'd like to hear everyone.

The original thread is outdated and piss stupid.

 

[blazekev90]

I was a noob when I made that thread. Naruto would beat him.

hahaha, y the change of heart??

 

[Prince of Persia TTT]

Hashirama beat madara, who right now look like a god ninja, and i really not think naruto will ever surpass himU_U

why do people tend to forget
hashi defeated ems madara and not rinnegan madara and since he is edo he can perform all the techs again and again thats he looks god like :sy::sy:

 

[Midday]

No I get what you're saying and I understand why real logic, my logic, seemed shitty to you because now I see your logic.

First of, it's Yin and do you think they are the same? No! They are different for a reason otherwise it'd be just "Chakra" you cannot just replenish one with the other if they are different. I want Ketchup and Mustard on this hotdog, I'm out of Mustard but I want both so if i just put twice as much Ketchup it's the same as having Mustard on there? No! I want Red and Blue but I'm out of red so just adding twice as much blue will give the same result (purple)? No! This analogy is a little silly but they are not the same thing you cannot just replenish one with the other but I understand your thinking. Also if that were the case THEN WHAT WAS THE POINT OF SEALING HALF THE CHAKRA IN THE FIRST PLACE BY MINATO?

There's no need to pull me up on the yin point since I corrected it before your post. I doubt the 50% thing was permanant, it was just because as a baby naruto wouldn't be able to handle the whole thing.

There's no reason chakra doesn't regenerate. Over Naruto's life the 9 tails siphoned of Naruto's chakra so over the 16 years it had access to both yin and yang. This whole chakra debate shouldn't even make a difference Naruto's chakra can just be used to compensate for what the 9 tails doesn't have.