Kid Kakashi Vs Kid Neji

[Joki]

Here are times he has dodged many attacks:

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Here he couldn't use rotation so he had to dodge:

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Here are complete rotations:

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one in which you linked was exactly like the one when KN0 punched him, if you think that's a complete rotation, Chidori hits him when he undergoes the first part of the Kaiten very easily.

Neji would be able to see him coming as he needs to build up speed for the attack. Because it is such a linear attack, Neji could just dodge it.

Kakashi can also

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. Chidori's weakness was that it can be countered in the way that you say, or a counterattack can be made. Kakashi's sharingan gets over that weakness, and it's too fast to dodge. I linked you in the paragraph you were responding to here, to if Naruto hit him before he completed rotation kakashi would easily be able to but it was seemingly ignored and "well Neji will just dodge". He;s so eager to use rotation even on KN0's punch, even you said in the links of him posting "he couldn't use rotation so he had to dodge". He's much more inclined to use rotation, if anything the links you posted supported my point. Naruto is also taijutsually incompetent, if had been anyone else with decent taijutsu such as Kakashi another 'boy genius' Neji would have used Kaiten.

How do you know for a fact that he is faster? This is purely an assumption as both KN0 Naruto and Kakashi are considerably fast themselves.

Err, because I posted a link in the first/second paragraph of Kakashi's speed surpassing any of KN0's speed in their match. Neji could barely keep up with KN0 and if he struck "faster than he anticipated", again Kakashi would be able to do the same. with Chidori's burst like speed Neji will be ripped apart

This is also another baseless assumption. They both are masters in their respective taijutsu styles. They are most likely equal to each other in close combat. Lee's tyle of taijutsu is very predictable, whereas Neji's is totally different. Not all taijutsu is as predictable as you say.

It's not, his is also linear, with sharingan pre-cog two tomoe or not Kakashi should be able to see through it and dodge his techniques.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

*Stands up knocking off the cobwebs from the old brittle bones* Time for this dinosaur to shake the rust off.

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Quick note, it's 12:30am I'm only staying up this late so I can catch Batman: The animated serious on The Hub at 1am and I'm tired as hell.
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What I'm going to say about his match up at point blank is that it's not a very good match up for the simple fact that we've seen the full capabilities of genin Neji and we've seen moderate capabilities of newly appointed jounin Kakashi. I casted my vote for Kid Kakashi although I care little for this debate since it's not the best pair up, I'm going with everything i have on each character and even if most of what I have on Kakashi at this point is contriversial/vague evidence that can be disputed, to hell with it I'm tired and will probably sleep after this.
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If you notice during the time period of when kakashi was promoted to jounin the shinobi world was a lot stricter and a lot more demanding of their shinobi. What I mean is you have shinobi that, shinobi are in a stricter envioronment and less concern for them is posed. In Kirigakure for example had their graduates kill each other as a final test of the academy. Why is this important? If you have a more demanding and strictr atmosphere you would suspect things such as chuunin exams and jounin promotions are given to less frequently and an average jounin from kakashi's era is better equiped then an average jounin in neji's era.

This is just for the sake of the argument for those who say rank doesn't matter. It does matter to an extent. The Naruto genin thing and things like that are exceptions to the rules and it's all technicality based. In a normal setting, Naruto would be a jounin by now he has both physical and mental capabilities as one (if Gai got as far as he did with his brains then Naruto shouldn't have a problem).

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Now that being said that context above and what it means, "to be a jounin" in the average sense and from what we have seen from a grown Kakashi and what we can deduce his skill sets were back then even without the Sharingan, Kakashi has a variety of abilities not just nin, tai and gen but perceptive, obesrvant, etc. so I take that into account when he fights.

Now lets look at Chidori and Rasengan beyond the actual abilities. What have we seen with Chidori? Speed. Kakashi has trained Sasuke to use that technique, however as stated by Gai and Minato (two seprate cases) Chidori has a speed basis in it's execution so you have to have the speed enough to get to your opponent quickly. We saw Sasuke vs. Gaara demonstrated equal speed Lee without his weights.

What's different from Neji's speed level and Kakashi's is reflex. Neji's speed seems based on quick reflex action, while people like gai, Kakashi, Lee, Sasuke all constant motion fast. They're not waiting for their opponent to attack so they can defend. Jyuuken is naturally defensive, Neji doesn't have the same level of speed as Lee or Sasuke did in the exams, he was fast enough to react to things but not fast enough to do onslots of attacks like we saw Lee and Sasuke do to Gaara. that's a factor of how Chidori has helped Kakashi physically. So we have Kakashi=fast from this. if nothing else this tells us that Neji>Kakashi Neji=kakashi at the minimum




Now for Rasengan, I will make the argument that Rasengan>Rotation for these reasons.

Rotation-every chakra point in your body is emitting chakra and is rotating at at a great speed around you, yet it's not very condensed

Rasengan-focal point is the palm of the hand, rotation of the chakra is is not in one primary direction it's in every direction 360 degrees within the confines of a sphere and the faster the rotation the more condensed the ball the more power generated.

These two techniques exibit more or less the same principles of rotation however with Neji's technique he spins one way, Rasengan spins ever sincle way in. Rasengan can push through it. It should at least meaning that's Kakashi's leverage against that.

Now, Kakashi without Sharingan is more difficult for me to deal with. Kakashi with Sharingan is no doubt. I'm too tired to continue so I'm going to end my argument like this, and let you do what you may with it.

Kakashi has speed enough to deal with Neji. There's superior intelligence with Kakashi and with Shadow clones if he has the chakra he can confuse Neji and cause much more havoc for him to deal with. There's kakashi's mentality of fighting, traps and deception with clones even with Neji's Byakugan, he wasn't able to notice Naruto underneath him as he let his guard down due to arrogance. If Kakashi has his Sharingan it gives him an advantage. His speed already on par with Neji, knowing what Neji will do next and accomodating yourself well before hand gives you better ability to counter attack wthout Neji being able to do anything about it. In the chuunin exams Neji's genius was in taijutsu and that was enough. Kakashi from what we've seen of him younger and how her turned out, even if it's a slight amount to work with, we know Kakashi is smarter, capable of keeping up, and has stronger techniques to work with even if nothing more then those three technqieus (clones, Rasen, Chidori).

To those of you who know me or even those who don't know me, this may seem like a crap job but I have an excuse.........I'm....I...ZzzzzzzzzzU_U

Ok I only want to address one point. I'm not saying that I agree with your other point at all, I am just too lazy to rehash the point that people have already been through in the thread thus far.

You said that it was more strict for Kakashi's time to become a jounin because it was war time. This is just a supposition, and frankly I believe it is an erroneous one.

What happens during war time? Everyone starts helping, people get moved up before they should because of lack of soldiers/ they get promoted in factories because of missing workers, etc.

To put it into perspective for you, Obito, one of the most worthless ninjas we have yet to see was a chuunin at that age of 13. You know who the only one to make chuunin in Naruto's year was? Shikamaru. Not Naruto, not Sasuke, not Lee, and not even Neji.

So now I that we have set some things straight, do you still think that the criteria for ranks was more strict when Kakashi was a kid?

 

[fastrthnwind]

Kakashi can also

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. Chidori's weakness was that it can be countered in the way that you say, or a counterattack can be made. Kakashi's sharingan gets over that weakness, and it's too fast to dodge. I linked you in the paragraph you were responding to here, to if Naruto hit him before he completed rotation kakashi would easily be able to but it was seemingly ignored and "well Neji will just dodge". He;s so eager to use rotation even on KN0's punch, even you said in the links of him posting "he couldn't use rotation so he had to dodge". He's much more inclined to use rotation, if anything the links you posted supported my point. Naruto is also taijutsually incompetent, if had been anyone else with decent taijutsu such as Kakashi another 'boy genius' Neji would have used Kaiten.

Since when is sharingan in this match? When he fought Kido, he couldn't rotate even when he set off traps that attacked from all sides, He wanted to use rotation, but the webs didn't let him, so he was forced to dodge. It in no way backs up your claim as it fulfilled my conditions where there was too many attacks for him to defend against and they attacked from all angles.

Err, because I posted a link in the first/second paragraph of Kakashi's speed surpassing any of KN0's speed in their match. Neji could barely keep up with KN0 and if he struck "faster than he anticipated", again Kakashi would be able to do the same. with Chidori's burst like speed Neji will be ripped apart

If anything, KN0 Naruto and Kakashi's chidori speed are relatively equal, though Kakashi has to build up his speed since he has less chakra while KN0 naruto has plenty to spare.

It's not, his is also linear, with sharingan pre-cog two tomoe or not Kakashi should be able to see through it and dodge his techniques.

His attack are circular. Also, two tomoe sharingan doesn't have precog abilities.

 

[Joki]

Since when is sharingan in this match? When he fought Kido, he couldn't rotate even when he set off traps that attacked from all sides, He wanted to use rotation, but the webs didn't let him, so he was forced to dodge. It in no way backs up your claim as it fulfilled my conditions where there was too many attacks for him to defend against and they attacked from all angles.

I just assumed he had it since the beginning , although it's just an added bonus. You're saying exactly what I'm saying supports me. I say how IC it is for Neji to spam his rotation, and you're admitting that even one of the pages you posted in which he dodged he would have rather used Kaiten, none of your conditions fulfill him dodging against a chidori, it's obvious he'd Kaiten(assuming he has time).

If anything, KN0 Naruto and Kakashi's chidori speed are relatively equal, though Kakashi has to build up his speed since he has less chakra while KN0 naruto has plenty to spare.

He doesn't. He created 2 chidori on the fly in a taijutsu match especially considering he got the sharingan after & thus would have used a lot more chakra(so puts down most of the exhaustion stuff brought up thus far)

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Here, is the first time and a bit later in the same chapter he uses another after already using the first one. Seriously, Neji has never displayed speed anywhere near this fast.

His attack are circular. Also, two tomoe sharingan doesn't have precog abilities.

Yeah it does, that's the whole point of the sharingan to predict the opponent's moves. Every single character who has ever had the 2 tomoe has proved this and why do you think their taijutsu increases each time?

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

I just assumed he had it since the beginning , although it's just an added bonus. You're saying exactly what I'm saying supports me. I say how IC it is for Neji to spam his rotation, and you're admitting that even one of the pages you posted in which he dodged he would have rather used Kaiten, none of your conditions fulfill him dodging against a chidori, it's obvious he'd Kaiten(assuming he has time).

He doesn't. He created 2 chidori on the fly in a taijutsu match especially considering he got the sharingan after & thus would have used a lot more chakra(so puts down most of the exhaustion stuff brought up thus far)

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Here, is the first time and a bit later in the same chapter he uses another after already using the first one. Seriously, Neji has never displayed speed anywhere near this fast.


Yeah it does, that's the whole point of the sharingan to predict the opponent's moves. Every single character who has ever had the 2 tomoe has proved this and why do you think their taijutsu increases each time?

The rest of your arguments are bad but that last paragraph that I bolded is just dead wrong. It isn't even an opinion. You should check the manga before you call people out like that.

Go reread the fight between Naruto and Sasuke at the valley of the end.

Sasuke goes from a two tomoe to a 3 tomoe and gains the ability to predict where Naruto will be.

2-tomoe only allows for faster things to be seen at a normal speed. Big difference.

 

[Joki]

The rest of your arguments are bad but that last paragraph that I bolded is just dead wrong. It isn't even an opinion. You should check the manga before you call people out like that.

Go reread the fight between Naruto and Sasuke at the valley of the end.

Sasuke goes from a two tomoe to a 3 tomoe and gains the ability to predict where Naruto will be.

2-tomoe only allows for faster things to be seen at a normal speed. Big difference.

Thanks for insulting my argument but not giving any response or reasoning to them whatsoever.

No. This is because Naruto entered KN1 mode and was faster and harder to keep up with. 2 Tomoe kept up with Naruto perfectly fine, when he took the fox's chakra he became much faster and Sasuke started getting his ass kicked. He unleashed the 3rd Tomoe shortly after and continued keeping up. I'll have to ask the same as you and before 'calling people out' check the facts. Hell the forest of death arc did quite a lot about sharingan' pre-cog. Sasuke did not "gain the ability" he simply enhanced the ability with the final tomoe.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Thanks for insulting my argument but not giving any response or reasoning to them whatsoever.

No. This is because Naruto entered KN1 mode and was faster and harder to keep up with. 2 Tomoe kept up with Naruto perfectly fine, when he took the fox's chakra he became much faster and Sasuke started getting his ass kicked. He unleashed the 3rd Tomoe shortly after and continued keeping up. I'll have to ask the same as you and before 'calling people out' check the facts. Hell the forest of death arc did quite a lot about sharingan' pre-cog. Sasuke did not "gain the ability" he simply enhanced the ability with the final tomoe.

Once again being able to track speed at an increased level does not equal being able to predict where the opponent will be.

It is an ability given by the third tomoe of the sharingan. I really don't want to pull the manga pages and embarrass you but it was before Naruto even had his first tail. He was just using leaked kyuubi chakra.

The 3-tomoe sharingan reads subtle muscle movements and predicts where the opponent will be. I'm sure that you didn't reread the chapters when I suggested you should. We wouldn't be arguing if you did.

 

[Joki]

Once again being able to track speed at an increased level does not equal being able to predict where the opponent will be.

Ok, if they don't equal that then you're using pointless semantics and the entire debate was pointless because you knew what I meant.

It is an ability given by the third tomoe of the sharingan. I really don't want to pull the manga pages and embarrass you but it was before Naruto even had his first tail. He was just using leaked kyuubi chakra.

Ok, I'll get them to do the reverse

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At least read from this point. I guess despite what the manga says on-panel, Itachi Namikaze says it isn't true because he likes nit-picking specific points in people's post that hold very little relevance.

Sharingan doesn't enhance anything until the 3rd tomoe when they full pre-cog is enhanced is unlocked? Ok, Itachi Namikaze says so and he's obviously not ridiculously nitpicking at the points in which he knew that I meant or anything, true fact up until the 3rd tomoe sharingan is pointless

The 3-tomoe sharingan reads subtle muscle movements and predicts where the opponent will be. I'm sure that you didn't reread the chapters when I suggested you should. We wouldn't be arguing if you did.

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Yeah...3rd tomoe increases the abilities of the previous tomoe, do you lack common sense or do you seriously like to nitpick at the slightest incorrect choice of words. I'm so sorry Itachi Namikaze, next time I'll remember to say what I specifically mean and say "he's able to read subtle movement and enhance his reactions in order to anticipate and predict opponents moves and read them at an enhanced level" and whatnot, rather than "pre-cog/predicting moves" so that people don't get confused as if they didn't know what I meant. Totally not nitpicking here

 

[-Ibrahim-]

Kakashi.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Ok, if they don't equal that then you're using pointless semantics and the entire debate was pointless because you knew what I meant.

Ok, I'll get them to do the reverse

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At least read from this point. I guess despite what the manga says on-panel, Itachi Namikaze says it isn't true because he likes nit-picking specific points in people's post that hold very little relevance.

Sharingan doesn't enhance anything until the 3rd tomoe when they full pre-cog is enhanced is unlocked? Ok, Itachi Namikaze says so and he's obviously not ridiculously nitpicking at the points in which he knew that I meant or anything, true fact up until the 3rd tomoe sharingan is pointless

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Yeah...3rd tomoe increases the abilities of the previous tomoe, do you lack common sense or do you seriously like to nitpick at the slightest incorrect choice of words. I'm so sorry Itachi Namikaze, next time I'll remember to say what I specifically mean and say "he's able to read subtle movement and enhance his reactions in order to anticipate and predict opponents moves and read them at an enhanced level" and whatnot, rather than "pre-cog/predicting moves" so that people don't get confused as if they didn't know what I meant. Totally not nitpicking here

You have been beaten soundly by multiple people. You should just give it up.

Typing the same thing over and over while being a jerk won't make your point correct, all it does is make us all view you as a troll.

 

[GodaimeRaikage]

Kid Neji

I don't see Kid Kakashi being fast enough to hit Neji with an attack.

 

[-Ibrahim-]

Lol if kid Naruto beat Neji than Kakashi would straight pwn him..

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Lol if kid Naruto beat Neji than Kakashi would straight pwn him..

Posts like this are why Narutobase is going downhill.

First off Naruto is the main character and has the strongest bijuu inside of him, secondly as a child he beat an almost fully transformed jinchurikki without using a tailed beast cloak. So your argument is invalid, because there is no way Kakashi could do that.

 

[-Ibrahim-]

Posts like this are why Narutobase is going downhill.

First off Naruto is the main character and has the strongest bijuu inside of him, secondly as a child he beat an almost fully transformed jinchurikki without using a tailed beast cloak. So your argument is invalid, because there is no way Kakashi could do that.

Sick, but Kakashi was a jounin at 13 years old. Stop trying to defend Neji so badly, It's so obvious kid Kakashi was stronger. What are you Neji's fanboy?

I'm serious, saying kid Neji was stronger than kid Kakashi is so damn absurd.

 

[Joki]

You have been beaten soundly by multiple people. You should just give it up.

Typing the same thing over and over while being a jerk won't make your point correct, all it does is make us all view you as a troll.

"Concession accepted" is warranted for you in this case, you clearly ignored my post contents for a reason. Although thanks for trying, you have to resort to ignoring the post instead of admitting your faults in the debate in that you were simply nit-picking, and calls me a jerk, though I digress

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

"Concession accepted" is warranted for you in this case, you clearly ignored my post contents for a reason. Although thanks for trying, you have to resort to ignoring the post instead of admitting your faults in the debate in that you were simply nit-picking, and calls me a jerk, though I digress

You were acting like a jerk. Still are in fact.

You didn't understand that they are two separate things.

One bonus allows you to see things moving faster, the other allows you to predict where the opponent will be in the future. How are you not getting this? They are two completely separate abilities, it isn't semantics.

I'll try to dumb this down for you, imagine a high speed camera capturing the images of a hummingbird. It can see the hummingbird fly, and can capture the images clearly, but can it predict which way the hummingbird is going to go next?

That is the bonus of the third tomoe, it allows the user to notice subtle muscle movements and predict where the opponent will be.

One is in the present, one is in the future. I can't get any more clear than that.

 

[Lord Oro]

kid neji wins mid difficulty.
64 palms and game over kakashi

 

[Rock Lee Green Beast]

neji wins IMO

 

[Emperor Excite]

And run into another chidori, rasengan from behind not the best plan, he won't be able to avoid Kage Bunshin from multiple directions either


Rotation doesn't work, the fact people think KN0's punch is stronger than a Chidori or Rasngan is pretty baffling.
Evade and attack? That's cool and all but Neij has hardly done this, it's extremely in character for him to just use Kaiten on attacks. he tries to use kaiten on Chidori/Rasengan and it's over for him.

After the explosion from colliding punch with rotation he was too weak to do anything but slowly pull himself out of the crater, and Naruto fooled him from that point with ease. Naruto fooled Neji boy genius what say you about the kid who became chunin at 6 and intelligence casually craps on most characters?


What? Chidori and Rasengan crap on completely KN0's punch. What's the most Kaiten has held back? Nothing close to Chidori or Rasengan. KN0's punch was all Neji's could take at this point, but if there's anything superior to that in the entirety of the manga that can even compare to Chidori or Rasengan please do tell.

Allow me to get scans

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And remember when Chidori destroy the entire wall in the hotel when he ran with it and when it smashed into the wall, and remember during the Chunin exam it destroyed the entire arena wall? Yeah...KN0's punch can't compare


If he focused on the one underground he'd be busy dealing with the KB from above ground.



Actually Lee himself disproves you,

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While Neji's on the other hand literally is a straightforward attack

And as I already said Chidori or Rasengan easilyu destroys rotation.
No, he learned Rasengan first, after he realized he couldn't put nature manipulation into it he made Chidori on "accident" if you could call it an accident.


That's cool, kakashi became a Chunin at 6, come at me

That's what he does to use Kaiten, which is pointless when colliding with Rasengan or Chidori, they both destroy Kaiten.



Which is like the whole point of his character from Part 1 lol but it's cool

Wow really part 1 kabuto was on the same level or even higher then kakashi he even stated himself here's proof, plus even jiariya & orochimaru confirmed that. Yet naruto was almost able to tie up with him without the nine-tails chakra as were he needed it for neji no if and buts about it. So if kabuto who ties with a grown kakashi was almost taken out by naruto then how strong is neji???

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Kakashi didn't learn the rasengan he copied with the sharingan the manga had some mis-translation. look below for example

Here's were Jiariya stated he'd teach naruto a techinque even stronger then the chidori, when he preffered kakashi to train him but in the translation it said she meaning tsnuade and we both know tsnuade most likely doesn't know the rasengan xd As were in other translation from episode 82 in the orginal series you get this

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Why would kakashi leave the rasengan for chidori after seeing how much damage it can do more

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Here's how i'm sure he didn't know rasengan at the time right here when speaking to jiariya he stated that naruto was to young to know rasengan??? Maybe you'd think only because it's naruto right??? nope because before that kakashi tryed teaching the chidori to naruto same age when he learned it 13.After the zabuza incident he stopped treating them like kids along time ago.

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Why would kakashi down-grade to a chidori when it's more diffucult to maintain and effort to use ,if i'm not mistaking .

Like i stated before a chidori would break to the rotation as were a rasengan would exploded on impact for the simply fact that those too move hold similar property. a burst of chakra in a rotation rapidly yeah nejji is mostly likely winning a fight against kakashi but 13 yr old Sharingan kakashi he's not beating.

 

[Bogard]

Wow really part 1 kabuto was on the same level or even higher then kakashi he even stated himself here's proof, plus even jiariya & orochimaru confirmed that. Yet naruto was almost able to tie up with him without the nine-tails chakra as were he needed it for neji no if and buts about it. So if kabuto who ties with a grown kakashi was almost taken out by naruto then how strong is neji???

Wtf is this? So you want to say base Naruto and Neji were already stronger than Kakashi in part1?? Please don't say nonsense. Underestimating has a limit.