Kid Kakashi Vs Kid Neji

[Champ]

He can simply dodge either techniques. Either that or he could use rotation. His fighting style allows him to seamlessly evade and attack his opponents at the same time. He didn't even have his byakugan activated when naruto came from underneath becasue he thought the match was over due to his arrogance at the time. If he did, then he would have seen naruto below him.



What does he have that can truly overpower his rotation? Chidori won't pentrate this type of defense. Even rasengan will have trouble getting through it. Neji will see everything with the byakugan and take that into consideration when fighting he few clones that kakashi makes.



If Kakashi goes underground then Neji would see him the whole time with his byakugan and just wait for him to come out so that he could counterattack him.



It isn't predictable and linear like rock lee's taijutsu. That's why they are so different. Kakashi doesn't have the advantage in taijutsu as Neji trains in it his whole life. Kakashi is completely outclassed in this department. His ninjutsu won't give him an advantage because of neji's rotation. He will also be able to see through any genjutsu with the insight of the byakugan.

This fanboy knows his stuff + rep

 

[fastrthnwind]

This fanboy knows his stuff + rep

I dislike the use of the term fanboy. Just fan would suit me well thank you

Oh and thank you very much.

 

[Drakengard]

Didn't Neji need his rotation to save him from a blind-side by PTS Naruto (with his Byakugan on)?

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[fastrthnwind]

Didn't Neji need his rotation to save him from a blind-side by PTS Naruto (with his Byakugan on)?

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Well, the byakugan, like most doujutsu, is incapable of telling apart clones from the real thing, so when he was fooled into thinking the clone was the real one, the others attacked him.

He wasn't expecting the clone to disperse itself after the attack as he was under the impression that the one he had was real. So when he realized that the others wouldn't disperse after hit the clone, he was temporarily caught with his guard down, and upon realizing, this was forced to use the rotation to protect himself from any other attacks.

 

[Drakengard]

Well, the byakugan, like most doujutsu, is incapable of telling apart clones from the real thing, so when he was fooled into thinking the clone was the real one, the others attacked him.

He wasn't expecting the clone to disperse itself after the attack as he was under the impression that the one he had was real. So when he realized that the others wouldn't disperse after hit the clone, he was temporarily caught with his guard down, and upon realizing, this was forced to use the rotation to protect himself from any other attacks.

Wouldn't Kage Bushin feats work with Kakashi if it worked with Naruto though? That's the point I'm trying to make out.

 

[fastrthnwind]

Wouldn't Kage Bushin feats work with Kakashi if it worked with Naruto though? That's the point I'm trying to make out.

In this case, Kakashi can't create dozens of clones like Naruto can, and therefore, would be less prone to attacks as such.

He could still be fooled, but the likeliness that he would be caught completely off guard like with naruto would be much less as not only can kakashi make less clones, but unlike before, he let his arrogance get the best of him in thinking that naruto was a doomed failure.

 

[Drakengard]

In this case, Kakashi can't create dozens of clones like Naruto can, and therefore, would be less prone to attacks as such.

He could still be fooled, but the likeliness that he would be caught completely off guard like with naruto would be much less as not only can kakashi make less clones, but unlike before, he let his arrogance get the best of him in thinking that naruto was a doomed failure.

I can see where you're going with this X_X I admit it's unlikely for it to work in that scenario unless Neji can't see through the ground or something. Remember that ninja have underestimated even adult Kakashi as times (All the way from Zabuza). It's not rare for even the stronger and more decisive members of a group to underestimate an opponent, but it does seem like Kakashi will get more out of it simply because he has more cards to play with (rather than the old stay away from a Hyuuga trick). His rotation can prove to be a problem if he has no knowledge though.

 

[fastrthnwind]

I can see where you're going with this X_X I admit it's unlikely for it to work in that scenario unless Neji can't see through the ground or something. Remember that ninja have underestimated even adult Kakashi as times (All the way from Zabuza). It's not rare for even the stronger and more decisive members of a group to underestimate an opponent, but it does seem like Kakashi will get more out of it simply because he has more cards to play with (rather than the old stay away from a Hyuuga trick). His rotation can prove to be a problem if he has no knowledge though.

I'm glad that we have come to an understanding then. +rep for the very interesting convo. Haven't had much like that for a while.

 

[Joki]

He can simply dodge either techniques.

And run into another chidori, rasengan from behind not the best plan, he won't be able to avoid Kage Bunshin from multiple directions either

Either that or he could use rotation.

Rotation doesn't work, the fact people think KN0's punch is stronger than a Chidori or Rasngan is pretty baffling.

His fighting style allows him to seamlessly evade and attack his opponents at the same time. He didn't even have his byakugan activated when naruto came from underneath becasue he thought the match was over due to his arrogance at the time. If he did, then he would have seen naruto below him.

Evade and attack? That's cool and all but Neij has hardly done this, it's extremely in character for him to just use Kaiten on attacks. he tries to use kaiten on Chidori/Rasengan and it's over for him.

After the explosion from colliding punch with rotation he was too weak to do anything but slowly pull himself out of the crater, and Naruto fooled him from that point with ease. Naruto fooled Neji boy genius what say you about the kid who became chunin at 6 and intelligence casually craps on most characters?

What does he have that can truly overpower his rotation? Chidori won't pentrate this type of defense. Even rasengan will have trouble getting through it. Neji will see everything with the byakugan and take that into consideration when fighting he few clones that kakashi makes.

What? Chidori and Rasengan crap on completely KN0's punch. What's the most Kaiten has held back? Nothing close to Chidori or Rasengan. KN0's punch was all Neji's could take at this point, but if there's anything superior to that in the entirety of the manga that can even compare to Chidori or Rasengan please do tell.

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And remember when Chidori destroy the entire wall in the hotel when he ran with it and when it smashed into the wall, and remember during the Chunin exam it destroyed the entire arena wall? Yeah...KN0's punch can't compare

If Kakashi goes underground then Neji would see him the whole time with his byakugan and just wait for him to come out so that he could counterattack him.

If he focused on the one underground he'd be busy dealing with the KB from above ground.

It isn't predictable and linear like rock lee's taijutsu. That's why they are so different. Kakashi doesn't have the advantage in taijutsu as Neji trains in it his whole life. Kakashi is completely outclassed in this department. His ninjutsu won't give him an advantage because of neji's rotation. He will also be able to see through any genjutsu with the insight of the byakugan.

Actually Lee himself disproves you,

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While Neji's on the other hand literally is a straightforward attack

And as I already said Chidori or Rasengan easilyu destroys rotation.

Kakashi copied the rasengan just a little bit after he got the sharingan

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No, he learned Rasengan first, after he realized he couldn't put nature manipulation into it he made Chidori on "accident" if you could call it an accident.

Hiruzen stated that neji is a genuis even among the hyuuga clan & Kakashi is even impressed by neji skills

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That's cool, kakashi became a Chunin at 6, come at me

Neji can release from the chakra points in his body so most taijutsu won't work on him.

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That's what he does to use Kaiten, which is pointless when colliding with Rasengan or Chidori, they both destroy Kaiten.

Even the strongest of the hyuuga clan praised neji to being a genius even surpassing the main brach

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Which is like the whole point of his character from Part 1 lol but it's cool

 

[Hmph]

Kid Kakashi with sharingan takes this.

The guy managed to one shot a skilled jonin with chidori, he's skilled with a blade.

Has a great sense of smell (even sniffed out a shinobi in the gaiden)

is argubally smarter, faster and wears a mask like a boss.

Neji dies.

 

[fastrthnwind]

And run into another chidori, rasengan from behind not the best plan, he won't be able to avoid Kage Bunshin from multiple directions either

Kakashi won't have that many clones on the field. He usually has two at a time.

Rotation doesn't work, the fact people think KN0's punch is stronger than a Chidori or Rasngan is pretty baffling.

It's not that KN0 punch was stronger, its because the rotation wasn't even complete.

Evade and attack? That's cool and all but Neij has hardly done this, it's extremely in character for him to just use Kaiten on attacks. he tries to use kaiten on Chidori/Rasengan and it's over for him.

After the explosion from colliding punch with rotation he was too weak to do anything but slowly pull himself out of the crater, and Naruto fooled him from that point with ease. Naruto fooled Neji boy genius what say you about the kid who became chunin at 6 and intelligence casually craps on most characters?

It extremely in character for him to just evade an attack that he can clearly see coming. At that time Neji was very arrogant and was under the influence that fate determined all lives of all people, meaning that naruto would still e a loser that would amount to nothing. With that he thought the match was over and switched off his byakugan. Naruto at that time used it to his advantage and attacked him then and there.

What? Chidori and Rasengan crap on completely KN0's punch. What's the most Kaiten has held back? Nothing close to Chidori or Rasengan. KN0's punch was all Neji's could take at this point, but if there's anything superior to that in the entirety of the manga that can even compare to Chidori or Rasengan please do tell.

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And remember when Chidori destroy the entire wall in the hotel when he ran with it and when it smashed into the wall, and remember during the Chunin exam it destroyed the entire arena wall? Yeah...KN0's punch can't compare

It the physicas of rotation that keep attacks like chidori from working. While chidori tries to penetrate the user, rotation constantly stops and repels the user. Even if it were to penetrate deep enough into the dome, which by the way is highly unlikely, it wouldn't even touch neji as the rotation/centrifugal forces of the rotation would force his arm aside so that it would completely miss neji.

Rasengan might have a slightly better chance, but only because it also uses rotating chakra to attack the opponent, something that could counter the rotating forces of the technique itself. However, that alone isn't enough to overcome this defense as it has to be able to penetrate far enough into the dome to be even useful. The emission of chakra and the centrifugal forces of the rotaton that also help to push the chakra outward would keep the chakra of the rasengan at bay.

If he focused on the one underground he'd be busy dealing with the KB from above ground.

He woud still be able to keep track of the position of the clone itself

Actually Lee himself disproves you,

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While Neji's on the other hand literally is a straightforward attack
And as I already said Chidori or Rasengan easilyu destroys rotation.
No, he learned Rasengan first, after he realized he couldn't put nature manipulation into it he made Chidori on "accident" if you could call it an accident.

How does this disprove my comment?

 

[Joki]

Kakashi won't have that many clones on the field. He usually has two at a time.

2 is enough, if he's occupied with 1 he already as you agreed can't tell the difference between clones, he won't know who to attack and as seen with Naruto he can delay how long it takes for them to poof. Kakashi should easily be able to get a bunshin feint here.

It's not that KN0 punch was stronger, its because the rotation wasn't even complete.

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As seen with the link the other guy posted, that's not how it works, and even Naruto attacked it prematurely in that page(it was incomplete eh?). There's literally no time for it to become "incomplete" or would do nothing different than the usual. KN0's punch was strong enough to deflect the kaiten, Neji has always used kaiten this way, so I guess every one he's ever used is 'incomplete'.

It extremely in character for him to just evade an attack that he can clearly see coming. At that time Neji was very arrogant and was under the influence that fate determined all lives of all people, meaning that naruto would still e a loser that would amount to nothing. With that he thought the match was over and switched off his byakugan. Naruto at that time used it to his advantage and attacked him then and there.

Ok when has he done this in a realistic situation, he likes to spam Kaiten and I doubt anyone would honestly say if Rasengan or Chidori was visibly coming at him that he wouldn't attempt to use kaiten

It the physicas of rotation that keep attacks like chidori from working. While chidori tries to penetrate the user, rotation constantly stops and repels the user. Even if it were to penetrate deep enough into the dome, which by the way is highly unlikely, it wouldn't even touch neji as the rotation/centrifugal forces of the rotation would force his arm aside so that it would completely miss neji.

Then why was Naruto's punch hasn't followed these laws at all? Before you say it was complete, check this link again

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And go back in the thread to where the link of Naruto beating his rotation was posted. There is no difference, it's how kaiten works.

Naruto's punch matched kaiten and they exploded, Chidori is even better for this considering it blasts craters through boulders casually and destroys walls of buildings when it hits them etc. Rasengan is the same.

If Neji clashes, it explodes and Kakashi and Neji are hit backwards, strong enough to make 2 big craters in the ground from when Naruto hit him. It will probably just be a repeat of that fight if it came down to it or Kakashi would simply reign supreme and remain standing, or similar.

Rasengan might have a slightly better chance, but only because it also uses rotating chakra to attack the opponent, something that could counter the rotating forces of the technique itself. However, that alone isn't enough to overcome this defense as it has to be able to penetrate far enough into the dome to be even useful. The emission of chakra and the centrifugal forces of the rotaton that also help to push the chakra outward would keep the chakra of the rasengan at bay.

Ok lol, I guess punches work better at it and Kakashi will just punch him, it'll do better than Chidori/Rasengan. Besides, you keep emphasizing the only reason Naruto's punch broke through was because Neji's rotation was incomplete, if that was the case why would someone like Naruto ever be able to prematurely punch Neji before he uses rotation, if that's the case kakashi should be able to do the same even easier.

He woud still be able to keep track of the position of the clone itself

2 on 1 is much harder than 1 on 1, he'll be busy dealing with one clone and the other one is still free to move/fight, and this is where he could be able to pull off a bunshin feint as well.

How does this disprove my comment?

You said, "Neji's attacks are not linear and predictable like Rock Lee's taijutsu". Lee said, "I wouldn't run straight forward into the opponent to attack, or I couldn't, a straight forward attack is easy for the opponent to counter, I don't have the eyes to that counter"

 

[fastrthnwind]

2 is enough, if he's occupied with 1 he already as you agreed can't tell the difference between clones, he won't know who to attack and as seen with Naruto he can delay how long it takes for them to poof. Kakashi should easily be able to get a bunshin feint here.

Not quite as easily as Naruto did since he could make dozens of himself who could then try to get the jump on him.

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As seen with the link the other guy posted, that's not how it works, and even Naruto attacked it prematurely in that page(it was incomplete eh?). There's literally no time for it to become "incomplete" or would do nothing different than the usual. KN0's punch was strong enough to deflect the kaiten, Neji has always used kaiten this way, so I guess every one he's ever used is 'incomplete'.

If you can attack him before he starts fully rotating, then his ratation techniqe is incomplete. Everytime he does use it he is a blur when spinning, in the manga page, you see him beginning to spin, but he hasn't even completed a single rotation. Without the full spinning effect of a full rotation, the centrifugal force is greatly weakened and the result is the much weaker repulsive force of an incomplete rotation. The power of the KN0 punch was therefore able to match the emission of chakra that Neji himself was emitting, leading to the repulsion of both parties.

Ok when has he done this in a realistic situation, he likes to spam Kaiten and I doubt anyone would honestly say if Rasengan or Chidori was visibly coming at him that he wouldn't attempt to use kaiten

He doesn't use kaiten unless it's an attack that:
1)is multiple where he personally can't fend off all of them
2)attacks from all angles which leaves the possibility of being hit in his blindspot
3)is too powerful for him to just take by himself.

Then why was Naruto's punch hasn't followed these laws at all? Before you say it was complete, check this link again

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And go back in the thread to where the link of Naruto beating his rotation was posted. There is no difference, it's how kaiten works.

Naruto's punch matched kaiten and they exploded, Chidori is even better for this considering it blasts craters through boulders casually and destroys walls of buildings when it hits them etc. Rasengan is the same.

If Neji clashes, it explodes and Kakashi and Neji are hit backwards, strong enough to make 2 big craters in the ground from when Naruto hit him. It will probably just be a repeat of that fight if it came down to it or Kakashi would simply reign supreme and remain standing, or similar.

Naruto's punch is a simple blunt force attack that has neither the penetrational force to even get through kaiten or the rotational force to counter the centrifugal force of the actual rotation.

If you want to compare destructional feats, then Kaiten leaves a crater in the ground whenever it's used. When he fought himself in shippuden, it had cleanly mauled through a nearby boulder.

If he clashes with chidori, then kakashi's arm will be brushed to the side after penetrating the dome a few inches, or he would be completely repelled altogether. If he clashes with rasengan, then the rotating chakra would counter the other rotating chakra and allow it to penetrate a few more inches, but the constant emission of chakra would slow it to a halt, once again repelling the user in the process as the chakra isn't large enough to withstand it..

Ok lol, I guess punches work better at it and Kakashi will just punch him, it'll do better than Chidori/Rasengan. Besides, you keep emphasizing the only reason Naruto's punch broke through was because Neji's rotation was incomplete, if that was the case why would someone like Naruto ever be able to prematurely punch Neji before he uses rotation, if that's the case kakashi should be able to do the same even easier.

The reason why he broke though is because when Naruto charged him, Naruto's speed was a bit greater than he estimated, so he was forced to rely on using the rotation as he knew that it would be able to repel him. However, before he even had a chance to complete the rotation, Naruto was already on him with his punch. The result is that he had a very weak repulsive force that naruto was able to counter by merely punching it.

2 on 1 is much harder than 1 on 1, he'll be busy dealing with one clone and the other one is still free to move/fight, and this is where he could be able to pull off a bunshin feint as well.

While it is more difficult to fight 2 on one, Neji has show great fighting prowess in fighting several Naruto clones at once, though their taijustu was considerably weaker than Kakashi's. This is where his byakugan will help him keep track of both attackers.

You said, "Neji's attacks are not linear and predictable like Rock Lee's taijutsu". Lee said, "I wouldn't run straight forward into the opponent to attack, or I couldn't, a straight forward attack is easy for the opponent to counter, I don't have the eyes to that counter"

Rock Lee's linear movements that I'm referring to is different from what you are referring to. In his fight with Kimmimaru, Kimmi stated that his attacks were linear and predictable like his name suggested,which is true. All strong fist style usse id mostly striaght punches and kicks meant to break a persons bones.

Nejis Gentle fist is about simultaneous evasion and attack, with more spinning and graceful motions involved. While, they need to be accurate, tehy are just trying to make their attacks connect since that is all they need to do in order to damage the opponent.

I am a big fan of Neji and the gentle fist style combat as well as Rock Lee and the Strong fist. Neji happens to be my favorite character with Lee being my second favorite, and Rotation happens to be my favorite jutsu. I have researched all of its capabilities and I know how it works along with the rest of the gentle fist techniques. I know their potential and their limitations as I have gotten their mechanics down to science. I KNOW what I'm talking about.

 

[Joki]

Not quite as easily as Naruto did since he could make dozens of himself who could then try to get the jump on him.



If you can attack him before he starts fully rotating, then his ratation techniqe is incomplete. Everytime he does use it he is a blur when spinning, in the manga page, you see him beginning to spin, but he hasn't even completed a single rotation. Without the full spinning effect of a full rotation, the centrifugal force is greatly weakened and the result is the much weaker repulsive force of an incomplete rotation. The power of the KN0 punch was therefore able to match the emission of chakra that Neji himself was emitting, leading to the repulsion of both parties.



He doesn't use kaiten unless it's an attack that:
1)is multiple where he personally can't fend off all of them
2)attacks from all angles which leaves the possibility of being hit in his blindspot
3)is too powerful for him to just take by himself.



Naruto's punch is a simple blunt force attack that has neither the penetrational force to even get through kaiten or the rotational force to counter the centrifugal force of the actual rotation.

If you want to compare destructional feats, then Kaiten leaves a crater in the ground whenever it's used. When he fought himself in shippuden, it had cleanly mauled through a nearby boulder.

If he clashes with chidori, then kakashi's arm will be brushed to the side after penetrating the dome a few inches, or he would be completely repelled altogether. If he clashes with rasengan, then the rotating chakra would counter the other rotating chakra and allow it to penetrate a few more inches, but the constant emission of chakra would slow it to a halt, once again repelling the user in the process as the chakra isn't large enough to withstand it..



The reason why he broke though is because when Naruto charged him, Naruto's speed was a bit greater than he estimated, so he was forced to rely on using the rotation as he knew that it would be able to repel him. However, before he even had a chance to complete the rotation, Naruto was already on him with his punch. The result is that he had a very weak repulsive force that naruto was able to counter by merely punching it.



While it is more difficult to fight 2 on one, Neji has show great fighting prowess in fighting several Naruto clones at once, though their taijustu was considerably weaker than Kakashi's. This is where his byakugan will help him keep track of both attackers.



Rock Lee's linear movements that I'm referring to is different from what you are referring to. In his fight with Kimmimaru, Kimmi stated that his attacks were linear and predictable like his name suggested,which is true. All strong fist style usse id mostly striaght punches and kicks meant to break a persons bones.

Nejis Gentle fist is about simultaneous evasion and attack, with more spinning and graceful motions involved. While, they need to be accurate, tehy are just trying to make their attacks connect since that is all they need to do in order to damage the opponent.

I am a big fan of Neji and the gentle fist style combat as well as Rock Lee and the Strong fist. Neji happens to be my favorite character with Lee being my second favorite, and Rotation happens to be my favorite jutsu. I have researched all of its capabilities and I know how it works along with the rest of the gentle fist techniques. I know their potential and their limitations as I have gotten their mechanics down to science. I KNOW what I'm talking about.

Sicne you know what you're talking about you should have no problem providing links, I noticed your post has a lack of them. Specifically, links of Neji dodging attacks instead of using rotation under your conditions, or using rotation in its 'complete form' to an extent that could actually stop attacks such as Chidori or Rasengan. Which both, allow me to remind you, easily blast huge craters in things far more destructive than a PTS Neji could stop.

As I said before to sum up your post , you admitted that Naruto's taijutsu is farrrr below Kakashi's, 2 kakashi Kage Bunshin easily more than evens it out.

So if KN0 was too fast for Neji to use rotation fast enough, Kakashi and chidori should

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but to an even greater power. Naruto caught his rotation "incomplete" so Kakashi(as well as accompanied by a kage bunshin) will have no problem. And with Kakashi's kage bunshin which is tough enough to kill on its own? Yeah

This also isn't shippuden it's Part 1 Naruto so those accomplishments are irrelevant, Chidori and Rasengan are easily superior in destructive power.

You clearly didn't re-read the fight if you act as if Neji was still on step 1 of the kaiten:

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In fact just go back 2 chapters and read the whole fight, Neji is nowhere near as impressive as you're making him out to be.

Besides, like I said: Naruto managed to do this, and Kakashi(w/ chidori is a no brainer) is undoubtedly faster than KN0 Naruto or rather Neji, if Neji couldn't kaiten faster than Naruto could punch again, he will have no problem doing it. Naruto was speaking full sentences as he charged in, to boot

Kimimaro is also superior to Neji in terms of taijutsu, and he's much more experienced, was he not Orochimaru's best underling or something to that effect. Kimimaro has plenty more experience and can anticipate Lee's moves, to him they're predictable, all taijutsu attacks are 'predictable' and not "random" like Drunken Lee. But regardless, not too relevant

I realize I didn't quote each paragraph/sentence/etc 1 by 1 here but I'm pretty sure I covered mostly everything important, if not just say the word

 

[Owarij]

Neji should win

He would have better taijutsu, and his heavenly spin would just about counter everything kakashi has..

This is 12 yr old kakashi and neji, kakshi doesnt have sharingan
He moves to fast and can't see his opponents counter attack.. Against a taijutsu expert who can seal his points it's over...

And even if he comes in to neji with chidor, Heavenely spin will hit him back with like 2x the force, and only minor damage to neji..

With neji's almost 360 degree vision, ability to see chakra and thus differentiate if he's not using a shadow clone

I see 0 ways non sharingan neji can win this

 

[Red Slayer]

Neji wins

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Ok I am going to say that Neji takes this.

People are overrating kakashi as a kid.

If it is 12 year old kakashi then he didn't even have the sharingan. If it is 13 year old Kakashi, he had only a two tomoe sharingan.

Elements-

Spoiler

People are also saying that Kakashi has earth element as kid? BS. He had just gotten the sharingan, he didn't have time to copy all the jutsus that he is famous for. He has even said that his only original move is chidori/raikiri.

I wish people would think. Elements usually take many years to learn, and Kakashi's elemental affinity is lightning, so why does everyone think that he had earth element at that age?

Chakra Levels-

Spoiler

My next point is the chakra usage. Kakashi near the beginning of Shippuden, said that he can only make two clones.

So let's do a comparison, in Part 1 he could do chidori/raikiri 4 times a day, at the beginning of Shippuden he could do it 6 times a day as well as other jutsu. Now try and think about him as a kid doing that. He could probably make one clone and do chidori maybe twice a day. Add to that the drainage of the sharingan (should he use it) and Kakashi as a kid would be lucky to outlast Shikamaru in terms of chakra.

Underrating of Naruto -
I'm not going to spoiler this one because it is important. The kyuubi has near infinite chakra. If we are to assume that each tail allows Naruto access to about 1/9th of the 9-tail's chakra, then even just using the excess chakra that leaked out of the seal would be insane.

Naruto had the vast majority of his base chakra being used to suppress the excess chakra that leaked out of the seal. Imagine that please. Naruto, a character with one of the largest chakra bases even without the kyuubi, uses most of his chakra to suppress that excess chakra from the 9-tails.

So yes a punch from Naruto using just excess 9-tails chakra would be far more damaging then a chidori or a rasengan from someone like Kakashi who has very little chakra.

P.S. Both Naruto and Neji were very damaged from that attack. Kakashi wouldn't be able to get back up like Naruto did, as Naruto has insane durability and increased healing from the 9-tails. Oh and Naruto has the guts to never give up, more so than Kakashi.

Taijutsu -

Spoiler

Neji has been doing taijutsu his entire life. Kakashi, with the 2-tomoe sharingan does not get the bonus that allows the user to predict where their opponent will be. That comes only from the 3-tomoe sharingan or above. He can track speed better, which helps him with chidori, but his taijutsu does not get a boost from it.
Neji just dominates him in taijutsu, there is no need for argument.

So with the points that I have made it seems obvious that Kakashi's only strategy is to go for a shadow clone, but Naruto went through 8 clones (I think, I'll go check in a minute) just to get to that point. Kakashi can make one clone, which would do him almost no good here as Neji's Heavenly Rotation can deflect all of kakashi's attacks.

 

[Red Slayer]

Ok I am going to say that Neji takes this.

People are overrating kakashi as a kid.

If it is 12 year old kakashi then he didn't even have the sharingan. If it is 13 year old Kakashi, he had only a two tomoe sharingan.

Elements-

Spoiler

People are also saying that Kakashi has earth element as kid? BS. He had just gotten the sharingan, he didn't have time to copy all the jutsus that he is famous for. He has even said that his only original move is chidori/raikiri.

I wish people would think. Elements usually take many years to learn, and Kakashi's elemental affinity is lightning, so why does everyone think that he had earth element at that age?

Chakra Levels-

Spoiler

My next point is the chakra usage. Kakashi near the beginning of Shippuden, said that he can only make two clones.

So let's do a comparison, in Part 1 he could do chidori/raikiri 4 times a day, at the beginning of Shippuden he could do it 6 times a day as well as other jutsu. Now try and think about him as a kid doing that. He could probably make one clone and do chidori maybe twice a day. Add to that the drainage of the sharingan (should he use it) and Kakashi as a kid would be lucky to outlast Shikamaru in terms of chakra.

Underrating of Naruto -
I'm not going to spoiler this one because it is important. The kyuubi has near infinite chakra. If we are to assume that each tail allows Naruto access to about 1/9th of the 9-tail's chakra, then even just using the excess chakra that leaked out of the seal would be insane.

Naruto had the vast majority of his base chakra being used to suppress the excess chakra that leaked out of the seal. Imagine that please. Naruto, a character with one of the largest chakra bases even without the kyuubi, uses most of his chakra to suppress that excess chakra from the 9-tails.

So yes a punch from Naruto using just excess 9-tails chakra would be far more damaging then a chidori or a rasengan from someone like Kakashi who has very little chakra.

P.S. Both Naruto and Neji were very damaged from that attack. Kakashi wouldn't be able to get back up like Naruto did, as Naruto has insane durability and increased healing from the 9-tails. Oh and Naruto has the guts to never give up, more so than Kakashi.

Taijutsu -

Spoiler

Neji has been doing taijutsu his entire life. Kakashi, with the 2-tomoe sharingan does not get the bonus that allows the user to predict where their opponent will be. That comes only from the 3-tomoe sharingan or above. He can track speed better, which helps him with chidori, but his taijutsu does not get a boost from it.
Neji just dominates him in taijutsu, there is no need for argument.

So with the points that I have made it seems obvious that Kakashi's only strategy is to go for a shadow clone, but Naruto went through 8 clones (I think, I'll go check in a minute) just to get to that point. Kakashi can make one clone, which would do him almost no good here as Neji's Heavenly Rotation can deflect all of kakashi's attacks.

This^^^

 

[fastrthnwind]

Sicne you know what you're talking about you should have no problem providing links, I noticed your post has a lack of them. Specifically, links of Neji dodging attacks instead of using rotation under your conditions, or using rotation in its 'complete form' to an extent that could actually stop attacks such as Chidori or Rasengan. Which both, allow me to remind you, easily blast huge craters in things far more destructive than a PTS Neji could stop.

Here are times he has dodged many attacks:

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Here he couldn't use rotation so he had to dodge:

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Here are complete rotations:

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So if KN0 was too fast for Neji to use rotation fast enough, Kakashi and chidori should

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but to an even greater power. Naruto caught his rotation "incomplete" so Kakashi(as well as accompanied by a kage bunshin) will have no problem. And with Kakashi's kage bunshin which is tough enough to kill on its own? Yeah

Neji would be able to see him coming as he needs to build up speed for the attack. Because it is such a linear attack, Neji could just dodge it.

This also isn't shippuden it's Part 1 Naruto so those accomplishments are irrelevant, Chidori and Rasengan are easily superior in destructive power.

Kaiten still leaves a crater whenever its used regardless.

You clearly didn't re-read the fight if you act as if Neji was still on step 1 of the kaiten:

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In fact just go back 2 chapters and read the whole fight, Neji is nowhere near as impressive as you're making him out to be.

Besides, like I said: Naruto managed to do this, and Kakashi(w/ chidori is a no brainer) is undoubtedly faster than KN0 Naruto or rather Neji, if Neji couldn't kaiten faster than Naruto could punch again, he will have no problem doing it. Naruto was speaking full sentences as he charged in, to boot

How do you know for a fact that he is faster? This is purely an assumption as both KN0 Naruto and Kakashi are considerably fast themselves.

Kimimaro is also superior to Neji in terms of taijutsu, and he's much more experienced, was he not Orochimaru's best underling or something to that effect. Kimimaro has plenty more experience and can anticipate Lee's moves, to him they're predictable, all taijutsu attacks are 'predictable' and not "random" like Drunken Lee. But regardless, not too relevant

This is also another baseless assumption. They both are masters in their respective taijutsu styles. They are most likely equal to each other in close combat. Lee's tyle of taijutsu is very predictable, whereas Neji's is totally different. Not all taijutsu is as predictable as you say.

 

[Reborn]

*Stands up knocking off the cobwebs from the old brittle bones* Time for this dinosaur to shake the rust off.

Quick note, it's 12:30am I'm only staying up this late so I can catch Batman: The animated serious on The Hub at 1am and I'm tired as hell.
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What I'm going to say about his match up at point blank is that it's not a very good match up for the simple fact that we've seen the full capabilities of genin Neji and we've seen moderate capabilities of newly appointed jounin Kakashi. I casted my vote for Kid Kakashi although I care little for this debate since it's not the best pair up, I'm going with everything i have on each character and even if most of what I have on Kakashi at this point is contriversial/vague evidence that can be disputed, to hell with it I'm tired and will probably sleep after this.
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If you notice during the time period of when kakashi was promoted to jounin the shinobi world was a lot stricter and a lot more demanding of their shinobi. What I mean is you have shinobi that, shinobi are in a stricter envioronment and less concern for them is posed. In Kirigakure for example had their graduates kill each other as a final test of the academy. Why is this important? If you have a more demanding and strictr atmosphere you would suspect things such as chuunin exams and jounin promotions are given to less frequently and an average jounin from kakashi's era is better equiped then an average jounin in neji's era.

This is just for the sake of the argument for those who say rank doesn't matter. It does matter to an extent. The Naruto genin thing and things like that are exceptions to the rules and it's all technicality based. In a normal setting, Naruto would be a jounin by now he has both physical and mental capabilities as one (if Gai got as far as he did with his brains then Naruto shouldn't have a problem).

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Now that being said that context above and what it means, "to be a jounin" in the average sense and from what we have seen from a grown Kakashi and what we can deduce his skill sets were back then even without the Sharingan, Kakashi has a variety of abilities not just nin, tai and gen but perceptive, obesrvant, etc. so I take that into account when he fights.

Now lets look at Chidori and Rasengan beyond the actual abilities. What have we seen with Chidori? Speed. Kakashi has trained Sasuke to use that technique, however as stated by Gai and Minato (two seprate cases) Chidori has a speed basis in it's execution so you have to have the speed enough to get to your opponent quickly. We saw Sasuke vs. Gaara demonstrated equal speed Lee without his weights.

What's different from Neji's speed level and Kakashi's is reflex. Neji's speed seems based on quick reflex action, while people like gai, Kakashi, Lee, Sasuke all constant motion fast. They're not waiting for their opponent to attack so they can defend. Jyuuken is naturally defensive, Neji doesn't have the same level of speed as Lee or Sasuke did in the exams, he was fast enough to react to things but not fast enough to do onslots of attacks like we saw Lee and Sasuke do to Gaara. that's a factor of how Chidori has helped Kakashi physically. So we have Kakashi=fast from this. if nothing else this tells us that Neji>Kakashi Neji=kakashi at the minimum




Now for Rasengan, I will make the argument that Rasengan>Rotation for these reasons.

Rotation-every chakra point in your body is emitting chakra and is rotating at at a great speed around you, yet it's not very condensed

Rasengan-focal point is the palm of the hand, rotation of the chakra is is not in one primary direction it's in every direction 360 degrees within the confines of a sphere and the faster the rotation the more condensed the ball the more power generated.

These two techniques exibit more or less the same principles of rotation however with Neji's technique he spins one way, Rasengan spins ever sincle way in. Rasengan can push through it. It should at least meaning that's Kakashi's leverage against that.

Now, Kakashi without Sharingan is more difficult for me to deal with. Kakashi with Sharingan is no doubt. I'm too tired to continue so I'm going to end my argument like this, and let you do what you may with it.

Kakashi has speed enough to deal with Neji. There's superior intelligence with Kakashi and with Shadow clones if he has the chakra he can confuse Neji and cause much more havoc for him to deal with. There's kakashi's mentality of fighting, traps and deception with clones even with Neji's Byakugan, he wasn't able to notice Naruto underneath him as he let his guard down due to arrogance. If Kakashi has his Sharingan it gives him an advantage. His speed already on par with Neji, knowing what Neji will do next and accomodating yourself well before hand gives you better ability to counter attack wthout Neji being able to do anything about it. In the chuunin exams Neji's genius was in taijutsu and that was enough. Kakashi from what we've seen of him younger and how her turned out, even if it's a slight amount to work with, we know Kakashi is smarter, capable of keeping up, and has stronger techniques to work with even if nothing more then those three technqieus (clones, Rasen, Chidori).

To those of you who know me or even those who don't know me, this may seem like a crap job but I have an excuse.........I'm....I...ZzzzzzzzzzU_U