Naruto even without the kyubi would still be kage level

[JuJuMan]

With sage-mode, he's probably S-class but I doubt he reaches kage level at all. To take away his precious Kurama would be to take away everything but his sage status. It's been established since the beginning that the only reason he can spam clones is because of Kurama. No clones = no rasengan, much less rasenshuriken.

Plus his sage-mode will only last 15 minutes without his clones. Though, without Kurama Ma and Pa toads could sit on his shoulders similar to Jiraiya. That's the extent of his power though, since literally his only techniques have been the clones and rasengan variants which he would no longer have. I don't care if he is an Uzumaki or not, it has been said the entire time that the nine tails is the only reason he could use clones in the way that he does.

Why do people keep stating that without kurama he cant make as many clones?

You must be registered for see links

Here have a read...
Edit: With the kuubi's chakra suppressed by yammato, naruto was able to do most of his training with his chakra with his own clones

Know that kurama was a burden to him until recently...All those times where kurama had "saved" narutos life was because kurama himself was the limitation for naruto...

I also guide you to the previous page where you see what naruto is capable of without kurama...not against any old ninja...against the fox himself...


Edit: Also to counter the time limit naruto has in sage mode after his clones are gone, he could summon maa and paa...But wait... I hear you say that is cheating!...Ahem, a summon is just like kibas dog...nuff said

 

[partha420]

I agree with u.

 

[Baka Sennin]

Where are you getting this bs from? It was never stated in the manga that his chakra was used to surpress the fox chakra! Ever! Like no where in the manga it stated such! Its a fact minato designed the fox seal to leak out some of its chakra slowly to merge with narutos! Fact!

The fox made naruto strong not WEAK at all! It was because of the fox naruto is still alive fact! It was because of the fox naruto could defeat gaara/neji/summon chief toad etc. in part 1.

Part one is what made naruto, you and the other dumb ass users are speaking on shippuden.

Fox is what made him what he is today from part one. He would be dead and there wouldnt be no naruto if not for the fox, fact!

actually, both ebisu and jiraiya said that. and saying naruto would be nothing without the fox would be like saying the uchiha would be nothing without the sharingan, it's a whole different story. Naruto without the kyuubi would have had minato to teah him.

from wikia, too busy to search manga pages atm
The seal had allowed a small amount of Kurama's chakra to always mix with Naruto's own. In Part I, Jiraiya once stated that Naruto's body was much too small a vessel to properly contain Kurama's chakra, and his body would instinctively reject the bulk of it due to the damage it could cause. Ebisu also implied that Naruto's poor chakra control stemmed from this, as a portion of his chakra was used in attempt to suppress Kurama's own overwhelming chakra.

 

[Naruto9001]

Firstly it's "sharingan"^^. Secondly, no Kakashi learned rasengan even before he had sharingan. He said that he had rasengan even before he created chidori. That means even before he was 12/13 he had already mastered the rasengan.

Anyway i agree when you say that even without Kyubi he is kage level

Thanks Mr. Einstein for noticing my tiny spelling error. I dont remember in the manga him ever saying that besides that would be impossible is affinity is lightning he cant learn a wind tech like Rassengan without his sharingan.

 

[catties]

wellll if you extracted the kyuubi from naruto right now and revived him (like they did with gaara) he would still be strong.
but, if the kyuubi was never sealed into him,
then:
lower chakra level=naruto can`t use that many clones=he learns techniques slower=he is not as good.

 

[Frikid]

konohamaru can do rasengan with just one hand.

and naruto did rasengan with one hand in the movie blood prison :scorps:

and i agree, SM naruto is kage level because of the chakra and sensing abilities and frog katas.

SM kabuto(with some other stuff) soloing sasuke and itachi
[but we all know who is gonna win ]

 

[Naruto9001]

You're a moron.

If you're not going to refute any of the points I made don't bother to even respond to my comment. Fools like you aren't worth my time.



Again, creating a technique is not the same as learning an existing one. That's like saying the person who learned to build a computer with the manual is smarter than the person who invented the computer by himself. The comparison is invalid.

I get what you're saying but seriously, consider this: the Rasengan is an incomplete technique. Which means all Naruto did was add the last step to create the Rasenshuriken. You really think the creator of the technique is going to take longer than a week to add the last step to it, if he'd known exactly how to do it like Naruto? No. Absolutely not.

Bold: If you're saying Minato is lacking in skill or chakra levels, then that's even more ridiculous. He is a genius, obviously he's incredibly skilled if you look at his mastery of the Rasengan and his Hiraishin, and I'm fairly certain that he'd had to have had an above average chakra pool since he became a Hokage. The man teleported the Kyuubi, for heaven's sake.

Let me make a few things clear though: I'm not saying Naruto didn't surpass him in terms of the Rasengan, nor am I trying to make Naruto look stupid. It just irks me when Minato is underestimated just because he isn't around anymore.

I'm not trying to underestimate Minato i like him too but dosent the one learns it have to do all the steps the creator did? That;s my point, And Minato never created the Rasenshuriken so it would take a while.

 

[JuJuMan]

Also I swear the rasengan was incomplete? ...I.e. halfway there...jman wasnt able to complete it....im jus sayyin

 

[MorphyRulez]

Naruto's enormous chakra comes from him being a uzumaki. Uzumakis have 100x more chakra than regular ninjas.

100x ? :flaw: really? Did you count by one by? Just Kakashi said 4x if Kakashi has low chakra reserve, we will make it 5 or 6 or lets make it op 10x but 100x? What are you drinking buddy?:shrug: However he would be like Jiraiya if kyuubi doenst there ma and pa would sync with him. So yes might be kage level. But the process is slower than current time

 

[Ento]

This is hilarious watching you noobs discuss a topic as stupid as this lol. The fact of the matter is you're all arguing about how strong naruto would be without all his skills.

Let me spell it out for your slow processing, prepubescent brains.

The series is called Naruto, it is about a boy who had a 9 tailed demon fox sealed inside him, and he had to learn to deal with it in order to make it to his goal of being hokage.
The End.
All of these posts, like those from "The Crimson Trickster" (whom apparently thinks he/she/heshe is some kind of naruto god that dictates how the series should be interpreted, as shes always bashing threads like this.) are just plain stupid. Use your heads, the series is about naruto growing up and becoming the leader of his village, as well as the development of the character on his journey. These imaginary scenarios and arguments have to stop. At first I thought it was funny to read how all these little kids like to discuss these matters but the line should be between fact and fiction.

Fact: Naruto is the strongest character in the series (he is the main character you twits)

Fiction: Your misconceived notions about how strong naruto is with or without his unique abilities matter.

This is a story written by someone and should be read that way. If you wanna go play imaginary power rangers in your back yard, that is fine. BUT PLEASE, please, please, do not corrupt the next generations ability to accurately analyze this work for what you believe it to be. Again its a story meant to be read and appreciated, not falsely deciphered and expanded.

I'd Recommend taking/retaking an English course or two as you are lacking in the literary analysis department and come across as being ill-informed on the facts, or rather, the ability to distinguish reality from fantasy.

Have a Super nice day!

 

[Naruto9001]

1. No it was becuase of the kyubi, unless stated otherwise!

You must be registered for see links

2. Hmm lets see... help fight oru for the first round, and also when with kabuto helped them fight all night to trick them stone shinobi... Next!
3.

You must be registered for see links

, During Jmans training.. But let me keep going

You must be registered for see links

because his regular chakra couldnt summon Gamabunta.. Do i really need to keep diging up facts? He needed the fox to summon gamabunta, fact!
4. thnx
5. thnx, but again it was because of the fox he was able to defeat gaara.
6. Im sorry tsunade saved him,

You must be registered for see links

as you can see kabuto tanked his best move. and if one on one could of killed him.
7. You dont get it? It was because of part one fox helping him that he is 100% the man he is today! With out the fox, he wouldn be an average shinobi (unless his dad taught him). These are all facts that i have listed!

shipp

1. fox made it so he could fight oru, and with out it he wasnt in the same league as sasuke!
2. No! that is why they brought yamato along! Because of the fox chakra could get out of control, fact!
3. Its a fact! I have listed them for you! Fox made him progress to the man he is today!

Chunin is what he would of been, he is weak with out the fox if from day one!





Dude what are you talking about??? We are talking about if day one he didnt have the kyubi at all. And i have listed facts on him being saved/helped by the fox. And him being able to do most of the things he did because of the fox.

1st! He had help against the 3rd raikage, if not for the info and folders he would of been dead!

You must be registered for see links

right here is where sudden death (or poof for the clone) would of happen. If you think naruto was better then your not a real fan...

2nd! Please tell me your joking about the pain part -___-... Lets see! Pain took on a village, destroyed a village, had the info from the village & jman & Ma and Pa used against him, couldnt use the main path till way later, snuck up on the weapons path, had 3 boss toads summoned before the battle, had 2 sage clones prepared, had ma and pa, had the 6 tails, had minato, had 8 tails, had the info thnx to kakashi (interval), then on top of that pain gave up in the end! Plus not to mention he wasnt trying to kill at all! Plus when he had naruto pinned down was when the battle was over! Plus he could of made chubaku tensei bigger to contain the fox if he wanted too! Again.. I hope your not serious!...

It was because of the fox that naruto became the ninja he is today fact! So all that power wouldnt have came so early if not for the kyubi. Look back to page four if you want to know why!





They dont get it at all!



Thank you! He would eventually at like 20+ in age became stronger, but it was because of the fox that everything came fast and easier!

1. He was talking about when he fought Haku.

2. Could have a point there.

3. He never said it was needed but true.

6. True

7. But part 1 was years ago and Naruto's gotten much stronger so im going to skip to shippuden.

shipp

1. Long time ago.

2 and 3. Long time ago i dont care


So you think even with sage mode his a chunin?

 

[Kazekage35]

Think of it this way, if Minato did not seal the kyuubi in naruto he would be alive still
1. Minato could have trained Naruto himself
2. He would have learned FTG so his speed from BM and KM would be matched
3. His SM would be much stronger because ma and pa could merge with him

 

[Titania Erza]

Thanks Mr. Einstein for noticing my tiny spelling error. I dont remember in the manga him ever saying that besides that would be impossible is affinity is lightning he cant learn a wind tech like Rassengan without his sharingan.

Well Kakahsi said that when Naruto was learning how to infuse his wind elemental chakra into the rasengan that he failed to do it with his lightning chakra and because of that instead he invented chidori. Kakashi was 13 when he first used chidori in battle during the third shinobi war. So Kakashi knew how to use the rasengan before his first "real combat" attempt of the chidori. And as we all know the first attempt was before Obito awakened his Sharingan, so Kakashi knew the rasengan before he had the sharingan.

Also sidenote: rasengan is composed of regular basic chakra which every ninja has. It has no elemental affinity so everyone can technically learns it. Adding your elemental chakra was the next step of the rasengan.

 

[Naruto9001]

Well Kakahsi said that when Naruto was learning how to infuse his wind elemental chakra into the rasengan that he failed to do it with his lightning chakra and because of that instead he invented chidori. Kakashi was 13 when he first used chidori in battle during the third shinobi war. So Kakashi knew how to use the rasengan before his first "real combat" attempt of the chidori. And as we all know the first attempt was before Obito awakened his Sharingan, so Kakashi knew the rasengan before he had the sharingan.

Also sidenote: rasengan is composed of regular basic chakra which every ninja has. It has no elemental affinity so everyone can technically learns it. Adding your elemental chakra was the next step of the rasengan.

Scans of him saying that? Your right about the rassengan though.

 

[jamarcusp17]

Naruto is a very talented ninja, indeed, but the thought that he is at Kage level without the Nine Tails is absurd. He is indeed a quick learner at jutsu, but Naruto is only on Jonin level. In the fight against Neji, Naruto relied on the power of the Nine Tails and would've lost without it. Even while older, Naruto could've been stopped by the Ay. Even Naruto said that if he wasn't in Nine Tails mode, he couldn't have survived the punch by Ay. Naruto only has the strength, the speed, and the chakra because of the Nine Tails. Sage Mode increases his power, but once his clones are gone, Naruto could not beat any Kage....Sorry.

 

[The Work]

Name all Kages that defeated Tailed Beasts besides Hashirima...............and 3rd Raikage.......exactly none...Naruto is way above Kage level

 

[Naruto9001]

LOL to the people bringing up stuff from all the way in part 1.

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

would like to know where you got 100x from but agree with you, sage mode is impressive to have control over

Kakashi stated Naruto had about 100x as much chakra when using the kyuubi.

But without it I remember him saying he had 4x more than Kakashi.

 

[The 6th Hokage Kakashi]

Naruto:
perfect Sage mode(beat jiraiya)
Kage Bunshin(kin jutsu)
amazing chakra(like a boss)
rasengan
wind style rasengan
rasen shuriken (beat minato)
summoning of toads(food cart destroyer)
toad jutsu combination
great tai jutsu with or without bunshin (remember him fighting sasuke, pain, orochimaru?)
child of the prophecy
saviour of the world
no. 1 unpredictable ninja(strategy in a funny way)

something tells me he can be kage level:y

p.s. like the fourth, he has perfected his ultimate s rank jutsu....SEXY JUTSU!

 

[The Work]

So basically....Tsunade couldn't defeat Pain.......Naruto did = Kage Level