Actually, considering how much he knows about Madara's life, it would make the most sense if he shares Madara's memories. If he does, that might imply that he is a clone.
I honestly think the longer he goes unrevealed, the better the chance that he is not someone we know. I mean Kishi has established Tobi as madara for so long that it would be a serious detriment to his story if Tobi is not still, at least part, Madara. I could go on with this, but I think day by day, the chances of him being anything other than a clone of Madara or an unrevealed subordinate of Madara decrease greatly.
(for people who don't mind reading) DONT RULE OUT KAGAMI AS TOBI
I ASSURE YOU THIS IS NOT SOME REPEATED THEORY HEAR ME OUT BEFORE YOU EXIT I PUT A BIT OF EFFORT IN IT thanks xd
people rule out kagami as tobi simply because he only appeared once well really thats not a good excuse theres plenty of shows that the main bad guy turns out to be that guy who only had one line,
(scooby doo for example lol)
well everything fits age wise, hair all that other classic kagami theories but also heres my own reasoning and theories
Kagami was in tobirama senju's squad consisting of Hiruzen, Danzo, Homura Mitokado,Koharu Utatane and Torifu Akimchi, all of whom were heard from again and seen to have survived the war. However we haven't seen Kagami since !
according to narutopedia/data book whatever, everyone in the team was present somewhat during the 9 tails attack on the village
heres a pic of even koharu, torifu and homura battling the beast
You must be registered for see images
and we all know that danzo was nearby and hiruzen was present , now who is missing ?
why wouldnt kagami be there ? unless he was but just as tobi .
you can argue that he died in the war or didnt realise the attack and later died in the uchiha massacre
But really do you really think that an uchiha trained under tobirama senju, out of all the people in the squad was the one to die ?
Are you saying that he didnt realize the attack when the rest of his squad did?
Why would Sarutobi recruit everyone but him unless he wasnt there ?
So even if he didnt realize the attack do you seriously think an uchiha trained under tobirama senju was just going to roll over and be killed by Itachi ?
Tobirama's original team was of hiruzen, Koharu and Homura later teaming up with danzo, kagami and torifu . now why would team tobirama team up with this team out of all teams when tobirama was fully aware of danzo and hiruzens rivalry that could put the teams mission in jeopardy unless the person who put together the group was influenced to by someone else, my opinion, kagami himself or madara
i believe that whoever tobi is was trained by madara and if it were kagami it could of been a plan by madara to get kagami close to tobirama to become a possible sucessor as hokage therefore an uchiha would be hokage and be able to do what madara wanted to do if he were hokage as tobi appears to have adopted the same beliefs madara did.
However this plan back fired when the team got trapped and tobirama sacrificed himself naming hiruzen as hokage before he had a chance to become close to him,
Also it was kagami who pointed out that a decoy would be needed knowing that hiruzen would probably volunteer hence getting rid of the likely successor as hokage however like danzo did not expect the hokage to sacrifice himeself.
You must be registered for see images
from the looks of the pic kagami looks pretty innocent, but we all know tobi is a good actor
It also explains tobi's space time ninjutsu as he could of copied tobirama's technique sometime during with his sharingan
Madara would of seen this plan fail which he'd depended on which explains why he unlocked the rinnegan so late in life because he'd relied so much on the plan he probably went to the tablet with kagami in a last ditch effort to form a new plan discovering the rinnegan
i believe that madara would of realised that in his old age that his body would not be able to handle the activation of the rinnegan and would cause his death but knowing that it that it had the power to bring one back from the dead they devised a plan to implant the rinnegan into someone who would be able to awaken the rinnegan someone with a strong enough life force to do so and use the rinnegan
madara would know that uzumaki's have strong life forces because of witnessing it first hand when mito uzumaki sealed the 9 tails within herself would of sort out an uzumaki away from the leaf finding nagato's parents either pregnant with nagato at the time or considering that madara knows nagato's name either a small infant whom madara saw worthy,
even if kagami isnt tobi i assume tobi would of been with madara during the selection so he knew which kid he was supposed to give the rinnegan to
madara then would do the things he needed to do to activate the rinnegan which would cause stress on his body draining his chakra he would then die giving the last of his power to kagami which explains why tobi has madara's power and entrusting the rinnegan to him to give to nagato and be brought back later
which leaves all the things tobi has done as of late ,
however theres some things missing , heres a few theories to explain the zetsu goo,
- maybe being an uchiha, kagami does not have the strong body like others who used space time ninjutsu, so his body has begun deteriorating because of its use and he has so far lost his arm so zetsu has replaced it ?
- lol, (dont believe myself) space time ninjutsu is a senju thing as it affects the body, perhaps like the uchiha who gained the sharingan the senju got this and because the so6p split the powers so nobody would be as strong as him, if a non senju uses this technique it has negative side effects much like if a non uchiha uses the sharingan it is not as powerful perhaps the so6p knew that one day somebody in his descendants would try to be like him so he has made it impossible as one would be in favor more than the other not balanced like his powers,
BUT then this would mean that minato is related to the senju's which i don't really believe myself
- there's also this obito theory that its because he is half crushed but i have my own theory for this which i'll get to
Why would Madara trust Kagami with the rinnegan and why would kagami follow him when his whole clan didn't ?
- Okay so most simplest explanation for this is it would not be hard for kagami to adopt the same beliefs that madara had he would of been brought up among fighting under senju leadership and would of seen that the senju had not brought peace at all , kagami would of been madara's only follower and ally madara would have had no one else to trust , he couldnt do anything to bring peace anymore so he would of taken the oppurtunity to use kagami as his student and sucessor to carry on his ideas hence why he tried for the hokage plan ??
- Okay this theory is a bit crazy but here it is anyway,
Tobi does not have ems . Okay i'm going on with a whim here but we can say that kagami had no siblings. Now during the time of kagami's birth it would of been round the madara era when the power of the sharingan was everything why would he not have a sibling ? i can assume this is because his parents died sometime while kagami was merely more than a new born so he wouldn't be able to have another sibling you could persume that his father would of died fighting and his mother at child birth leaving an orphan kagami who would easily be influenced by madara
However,
now this would explain why madara would be trusting in kagami and even go so far as giving him some of his power (kay abit crazy)
Kagami could be Izuna's son which is not impossible as izuna died sometime during his mid to late twenty's. Also not much is known about Izuna after he gave up his eye's, all the spot light fell on Madara and izuna would of faded away no one would of cared much about what he was doing yet alone in some relationship.
This would explain why Tobi clenches as he speaks of Izuna's sacrifice for the good of the clan yet in the end his sacrifice went to waste and he died for nothing as the clan turned on madara, ultimatley leaving him an orphan
It also explains why he would help kill the uchiha clan because of them wasting his fathers sacrifice in the past and now all of sudden they realise that madara was right but it is too late, he'd have been pretty angry and its not the first time the villain turns out to be the way they are because of been deprived of their parents love
It could also explain why he insists it was a loving sacrifice as he may want to see his father as a loving figure, a devotee a hero who sacrificed himself for the good of the clan or he refuses to believe that his father would of been so weak as to have had his eyes snatched by madara
Madara would be able to trust him because of the bond connecting them and would of been able to rely on him as a successor as he should grow up to be rather powerful because of his bloodline, also it explains why tobi is sort of madara's b***h as he is more less his father figure or it could be because he taught him what he knew but he is not so much so madara's b***h to the full extent that he could demand him around to do everything he says but rather they are equals but he still has that place above him
Also it would explain his hate for the senju clan who was the clan that ultimately caused the sacrifice
random other theories that could fit other characters in and maybe keep some of those HE IS OBITO theorists happy lol but i wouldnt take this seriously
put in a spoiler so you can read if you want
some people think that tobi is obito, tobi is shisui or like me that tobi is kagami or my second vote that tobi is izuna , well i found a way to fit them all together
so still believing that tobi is kagami and that we can say izuna is kagami's dad , what if in a way to obtain ems kagami went so far as to have two children of his own , (Tobi has stated that you need patience for a plan to work) obito an shisui after shisui's birth leaving the village and be reborn as tobi , creating zetsu not only for akatsuki but to keep an eye on his children until they fought each other to obtain ems then zetsu would or he would capture the victorious brother and take the ems from them for himself ,
however things didnt go to plan when obito seemingly gets crushed by boulders , however because zetsu was watching nearby he could of saved obito just in time taking him back to tobi where tobi either took the sharingan or realised that to unlock ems you have to be the body of the sibling so he possess obito's body somehow
(does not make too much sense coz he's old but hey orochimaru was able to alter the appearance of his vessels to appear like himself)
the crushed parts of the body would of been repaired by zetsu and tobi could use first aid on obito to keep him alive ,
(for all those there is no way obito survived he's crushed by rocks, well i hate to say it but you cant talk if your heads crushed you die instantly plus the rock crushed his right side and isnt all the vital organs on the left side, heart, one lung , idk i'm not a doctor)
and intended to get shisui's eyes once he unlocked ms in the meantime tobi/kagami would need to unlock the ms in obito's eye and being in obito's body he has access to his memories (like orochimaru sort of did) and would of seen that obito loved rin so would of killed her explaining her disappearance
he decided to go of the original plan of obtaining ems when he heard that the 9 tails jinchuriki was going to give birth therefore the seal weakened because that failed he would return years later to get shisui's eyes and perhaps swap bodies from obito's crippled one something shisui might of caught onto hence why he pretended to crush his eyes with the illusion that it was so no one fought over them however really its because of tobi's intentions and also why he completely destroyed his body so that tobi would not be able to possess it which is why he was in the village at the time of the massacre, not simply trying to rekindle the flames of war unless rekindling the flames of war means aimlessly wandering round the village
anyway thats all i've got, no negativity it is my own thoughts and no one likes it when they are called stupid for thinking something so yeah,
okay one last thing :
the guy just looks plain evil much like tobi
I ASSURE YOU THIS IS NOT SOME REPEATED THEORY HEAR ME OUT BEFORE YOU EXIT I PUT A BIT OF EFFORT IN IT thanks xd
people rule out kagami as tobi simply because he only appeared once well really thats not a good excuse theres plenty of shows that the main bad guy turns out to be that guy who only had one line,
(scooby doo for example lol)
well everything fits age wise, hair all that other classic kagami theories but also heres my own reasoning and theories
Kagami was in tobirama senju's squad consisting of Hiruzen, Danzo, Homura Mitokado,Koharu Utatane and Torifu Akimchi, all of whom were heard from again and seen to have survived the war. However we haven't seen Kagami since !
according to narutopedia/data book whatever, everyone in the team was present somewhat during the 9 tails attack on the village
heres a pic of even koharu, torifu and homura battling the beast
You must be registered for see images
and we all know that danzo was nearby and hiruzen was present , now who is missing ?
why wouldnt kagami be there ? unless he was but just as tobi .
you can argue that he died in the war or didnt realise the attack and later died in the uchiha massacre
But really do you really think that an uchiha trained under tobirama senju, out of all the people in the squad was the one to die ?
Are you saying that he didnt realize the attack when the rest of his squad did?
Why would Sarutobi recruit everyone but him unless he wasnt there ?
So even if he didnt realize the attack do you seriously think an uchiha trained under tobirama senju was just going to roll over and be killed by Itachi ?
Tobirama's original team was of hiruzen, Koharu and Homura later teaming up with danzo, kagami and torifu . now why would team tobirama team up with this team out of all teams when tobirama was fully aware of danzo and hiruzens rivalry that could put the teams mission in jeopardy unless the person who put together the group was influenced to by someone else, my opinion, kagami himself or madara
i believe that whoever tobi is was trained by madara and if it were kagami it could of been a plan by madara to get kagami close to tobirama to become a possible sucessor as hokage therefore an uchiha would be hokage and be able to do what madara wanted to do if he were hokage as tobi appears to have adopted the same beliefs madara did.
However this plan back fired when the team got trapped and tobirama sacrificed himself naming hiruzen as hokage before he had a chance to become close to him,
Also it was kagami who pointed out that a decoy would be needed knowing that hiruzen would probably volunteer hence getting rid of the likely successor as hokage however like danzo did not expect the hokage to sacrifice himeself.
You must be registered for see images
from the looks of the pic kagami looks pretty innocent, but we all know tobi is a good actor
It also explains tobi's space time ninjutsu as he could of copied tobirama's technique sometime during with his sharingan
Madara would of seen this plan fail which he'd depended on which explains why he unlocked the rinnegan so late in life because he'd relied so much on the plan he probably went to the tablet with kagami in a last ditch effort to form a new plan discovering the rinnegan
i believe that madara would of realised that in his old age that his body would not be able to handle the activation of the rinnegan and would cause his death but knowing that it that it had the power to bring one back from the dead they devised a plan to implant the rinnegan into someone who would be able to awaken the rinnegan someone with a strong enough life force to do so and use the rinnegan
madara would know that uzumaki's have strong life forces because of witnessing it first hand when mito uzumaki sealed the 9 tails within herself would of sort out an uzumaki away from the leaf finding nagato's parents either pregnant with nagato at the time or considering that madara knows nagato's name either a small infant whom madara saw worthy,
even if kagami isnt tobi i assume tobi would of been with madara during the selection so he knew which kid he was supposed to give the rinnegan to
madara then would do the things he needed to do to activate the rinnegan which would cause stress on his body draining his chakra he would then die giving the last of his power to kagami which explains why tobi has madara's power and entrusting the rinnegan to him to give to nagato and be brought back later
which leaves all the things tobi has done as of late ,
however theres some things missing , heres a few theories to explain the zetsu goo,
- maybe being an uchiha, kagami does not have the strong body like others who used space time ninjutsu, so his body has begun deteriorating because of its use and he has so far lost his arm so zetsu has replaced it ?
- lol, (dont believe myself) space time ninjutsu is a senju thing as it affects the body, perhaps like the uchiha who gained the sharingan the senju got this and because the so6p split the powers so nobody would be as strong as him, if a non senju uses this technique it has negative side effects much like if a non uchiha uses the sharingan it is not as powerful perhaps the so6p knew that one day somebody in his descendants would try to be like him so he has made it impossible as one would be in favor more than the other not balanced like his powers,
BUT then this would mean that minato is related to the senju's which i don't really believe myself
- there's also this obito theory that its because he is half crushed but i have my own theory for this which i'll get to
Why would Madara trust Kagami with the rinnegan and why would kagami follow him when his whole clan didn't ?
- Okay so most simplest explanation for this is it would not be hard for kagami to adopt the same beliefs that madara had he would of been brought up among fighting under senju leadership and would of seen that the senju had not brought peace at all , kagami would of been madara's only follower and ally madara would have had no one else to trust , he couldnt do anything to bring peace anymore so he would of taken the oppurtunity to use kagami as his student and sucessor to carry on his ideas hence why he tried for the hokage plan ??
- Okay this theory is a bit crazy but here it is anyway,
Tobi does not have ems . Okay i'm going on with a whim here but we can say that kagami had no siblings. Now during the time of kagami's birth it would of been round the madara era when the power of the sharingan was everything why would he not have a sibling ? i can assume this is because his parents died sometime while kagami was merely more than a new born so he wouldn't be able to have another sibling you could persume that his father would of died fighting and his mother at child birth leaving an orphan kagami who would easily be influenced by madara
However,
now this would explain why madara would be trusting in kagami and even go so far as giving him some of his power (kay abit crazy)
Kagami could be Izuna's son which is not impossible as izuna died sometime during his mid to late twenty's. Also not much is known about Izuna after he gave up his eye's, all the spot light fell on Madara and izuna would of faded away no one would of cared much about what he was doing yet alone in some relationship.
This would explain why Tobi clenches as he speaks of Izuna's sacrifice for the good of the clan yet in the end his sacrifice went to waste and he died for nothing as the clan turned on madara, ultimatley leaving him an orphan
It also explains why he would help kill the uchiha clan because of them wasting his fathers sacrifice in the past and now all of sudden they realise that madara was right but it is too late, he'd have been pretty angry and its not the first time the villain turns out to be the way they are because of been deprived of their parents love
It could also explain why he insists it was a loving sacrifice as he may want to see his father as a loving figure, a devotee a hero who sacrificed himself for the good of the clan or he refuses to believe that his father would of been so weak as to have had his eyes snatched by madara
Madara would be able to trust him because of the bond connecting them and would of been able to rely on him as a successor as he should grow up to be rather powerful because of his bloodline, also it explains why tobi is sort of madara's b***h as he is more less his father figure or it could be because he taught him what he knew but he is not so much so madara's b***h to the full extent that he could demand him around to do everything he says but rather they are equals but he still has that place above him
Also it would explain his hate for the senju clan who was the clan that ultimately caused the sacrifice
random other theories that could fit other characters in and maybe keep some of those HE IS OBITO theorists happy lol but i wouldnt take this seriously
put in a spoiler so you can read if you want
some people think that tobi is obito, tobi is shisui or like me that tobi is kagami or my second vote that tobi is izuna , well i found a way to fit them all together
so still believing that tobi is kagami and that we can say izuna is kagami's dad , what if in a way to obtain ems kagami went so far as to have two children of his own , (Tobi has stated that you need patience for a plan to work) obito an shisui after shisui's birth leaving the village and be reborn as tobi , creating zetsu not only for akatsuki but to keep an eye on his children until they fought each other to obtain ems then zetsu would or he would capture the victorious brother and take the ems from them for himself ,
however things didnt go to plan when obito seemingly gets crushed by boulders , however because zetsu was watching nearby he could of saved obito just in time taking him back to tobi where tobi either took the sharingan or realised that to unlock ems you have to be the body of the sibling so he possess obito's body somehow
(does not make too much sense coz he's old but hey orochimaru was able to alter the appearance of his vessels to appear like himself)
the crushed parts of the body would of been repaired by zetsu and tobi could use first aid on obito to keep him alive ,
(for all those there is no way obito survived he's crushed by rocks, well i hate to say it but you cant talk if your heads crushed you die instantly plus the rock crushed his right side and isnt all the vital organs on the left side, heart, one lung , idk i'm not a doctor)
and intended to get shisui's eyes once he unlocked ms in the meantime tobi/kagami would need to unlock the ms in obito's eye and being in obito's body he has access to his memories (like orochimaru sort of did) and would of seen that obito loved rin so would of killed her explaining her disappearance
he decided to go of the original plan of obtaining ems when he heard that the 9 tails jinchuriki was going to give birth therefore the seal weakened because that failed he would return years later to get shisui's eyes and perhaps swap bodies from obito's crippled one something shisui might of caught onto hence why he pretended to crush his eyes with the illusion that it was so no one fought over them however really its because of tobi's intentions and also why he completely destroyed his body so that tobi would not be able to possess it which is why he was in the village at the time of the massacre, not simply trying to rekindle the flames of war unless rekindling the flames of war means aimlessly wandering round the village
anyway thats all i've got, no negativity it is my own thoughts and no one likes it when they are called stupid for thinking something so yeah,
okay one last thing :
the guy just looks plain evil much like tobi
Re: (for people who don't mind reading) DONT RULE OUT KAGAMI AS TOBI
it's POSSIBLE bit higly inprobable. I mean i gotta give you props for your research but i'm not even sure if Madara would entrust his eyes to Kagami, but hey it's possible and it turns out to be the case then kishimoto is gonna pull out some random flashback to explain the whole thing in some really akward fashion.
it's POSSIBLE bit higly inprobable. I mean i gotta give you props for your research but i'm not even sure if Madara would entrust his eyes to Kagami, but hey it's possible and it turns out to be the case then kishimoto is gonna pull out some random flashback to explain the whole thing in some really akward fashion.
haha thanks thats why i did that random theory that kagami is izuna's son which is why madara would trust him as he'd follow his dad's belifs coz of that bond
Re: (for people who don't mind reading) DONT RULE OUT KAGAMI AS TOBI
at this point i dont rule many ppl out as tobi except obito jus no
fugaku like sumone said maybe the ninetails attack was his way to weaken the leaf b4 the uchiha uprising and maybe when he was seen dead it was jus itachi genjutsu so sasuke thought he was dead but really he jus fled from the leaf and the reason he has a zetsu body is cuz he had to leave an arm or sumthing behind so that the leaf would think he was dead
so many theories all could be write all could be wrong
haha thanks thats why i did that random theory that kagami is izuna's son which is why madara would trust him as he'd follow his dad's belifs coz of that bond
at this point i dont rule many ppl out as tobi except obito jus no
fugaku like sumone said maybe the ninetails attack was his way to weaken the leaf b4 the uchiha uprising and maybe when he was seen dead it was jus itachi genjutsu so sasuke thought he was dead but really he jus fled from the leaf and the reason he has a zetsu body is cuz he had to leave an arm or sumthing behind so that the leaf would think he was dead
so many theories all could be write all could be wrong
Re: (for people who don't mind reading) DONT RULE OUT KAGAMI AS TOBI
I didn't read it all (i will read it tomorrow) but it sounds very logical. The second was probably his inspiration for the name tobi, i don't know if you mentioned this and people didn't pay attention to him including me,so he is the perfect candidate.+rep and good night.
Lol looks like I missed that one ha thanks for INTRODUCING the theory to me though it gave me an idea for my own , maybe kagami got rid of his arm to stage his own death ? Haha.
Lol looks like I missed that one ha thanks for INTRODUCING the theory to me though it gave me an idea for my own , maybe kagami got rid of his arm to stage his own death ? Haha.
I didn't read it all (i will read it tomorrow) but it sounds very logical. The second was probably his inspiration for the name tobi, i don't know if you mentioned this and people didn't pay attention to him including me,so he is the perfect candidate.+rep and good night.
