Itachi's susanoo is not invincible.

[itachixnamikaze]

Didnt they say tht the yata mirror can reflect anything.

 

[9Bijuu]

A very good analysis. the only issue that i see is the issue of the Yata Mirror. in the databook it states it has ALL nature transformations. while the Rinnegan states the Wielder gets all BASIC nature transformations. so it's POSSIBLE that the Yata Mirror instead of using opposite element to negate jutsu it's using the same elements that are hitting it and negating them by exerting the same energy level similar to how kakashi negated one of Kakuzu's lightning attacks with his own. So it's up for debate on whether the Yata Mirror can or can not stop elements composed of 2+ elements. just thought i'd add that extra bit, though it doesn't change the overall premise that much and it can still be broken by a strong enough neutral attack, even IF it can stop all ninjutsu.

Extremely good point, I'm editing this in - finally someone who managed to prove me wrong on the mirror. Been waiting for some logic, +rep.

Didnt they say tht the yata mirror can reflect anything.

Yes but they never stated whether or not it only applied to jutsu with more than one element, like lava, dust, or any type of multi-element release.

 

[Microsword57]

God you're a moron, one jutsu type being better than the other doesn't mean it wins (wind release: rasenshuriken vs. the third raikage's lightning armor, seriously, this is obvious) also we have only seen partial susanoos broken but that doesn't mean a full susanoo is completely indestructible. The sand won't just be cut like that and if necessary Gaara has his special sand which may fare better. Also, still waiting on your argument against chakra arms, jutsu that can go under the susanoo and do damage, and all of the other issues this flaw creates.

And are you seriously using the susanoo with legs as an argument? Madara's susanoo is SPECIAL. This has never been seen in anyone else, this is about Itachi's susanoo, you can't say all susanoo have legs because only one has been seen with it and it is someone who is smacking around the five kages with no problems whatsoever.

Use ITACHI'S susanoo as evidence, no susanoo is the same as another, each one has unique abilities. While I don't want to get into how each of the three main Uchiha emphasize one MS abilities (Itachi with tsukuyomi, Sasuke with amaterasu, and Madara with susanoo based on feats and each one having special abilities with their respective techniques) Itachi's susanoo most likely never developed to the level Madara's did.

Also, it's pretty pointless to call someone's thought's stupid - they're my thoughts and if your opinion doesn't matter on them to me it just doesn't. I could say the same for you but won't as I feel everyone's ideas have some merit. Feel free to stop posting on my thread if you're just going to be obviously angry while posting on it.

You are obviously the hardest person to get a point across to so this is my last post to you enjoy. Only time type advantage does not provail is when that the disadvantage attack is much more powerful which its not. Chidori Nagashi is a A-Rank tech if im right and it even puts certain strain on the user. You do realize when naruto hit him with the rasenghan it made him leave for the reason of it bring him to some sort of peace, thats why naruto hit him with the Rasenshuriken and he got right back up edo ends from R.I.P or sealing.Naruto hit him in his scar from his fight with the 9th tails which he was embarrased about. I never said the part around susano;o thats not shield by susano'o were indestructible i simple was stating that it is not easy to break far from it actually because we have never seen an conflict where it has even cracked. You made that assumption thinking i was calling it "indestructible" which i did not. You were the first to compare Madara's susano'o with other uchihas susano'o so i responded in the same way. I explained already how chidori nagashi would prevent the sand from grabbing his feet with the lack of speed boost from onoki and from the disadvantage and strength of that tech. While you were right that Susano'o's are different i want to point out that techs are as well. Madara does not posses Chidori nagashi in his arsenal. Because you saw Madara get pulled out his susano'o you took that and stretch that theory beyond its limits. ME and your conversation as slowly progressed form being about itachi's susano'o to all susano'os. You initialized insults and i followed up. You have to Realize that you can't immediately make the assumption that "Madara's susano'o is more special and that other susano'os do not have legs" We have yet to see Sasuke or itachi do this but that does not mean it does not exist in their arsenal. Kishimoto has suprised us with techs that we have not known of or known a character has.. never expect that what the manga shows currently is all that exist. Just like how we have never seen itachi's susano'o countered but you have manage to make a forum saying it can be destroyed. So if we are playing the game of "if its not in the manga now its not real" then this entire forum is invalid and needs to be close. Since that obviously not the case lets get into what we know about Itachi's susano'o.

IT can go up to Final Forum for the Upper Half.
It possess the yato mirror which is said to counter all attacks.
IT has the Toskato sword that pierces and seals you into an eternity of genjutsu.
It has not been broken yet.

Lets get into some details about the equipment it possess.
Yato mirror is a spiritual weapon which is why it has never been found by orochimaru who has done years of research and struggling.
once again it is said to block any attack.
Now a Question: Can Something without a physical form something that the handle itself can not touch be disintegrated?
Disintegration- to separate into parts or lose intactness or solidness
Solidness- firm, hard, or compact in substance
Source: dictionary.com

Lets get into the details of what All Susano'o's Possess, this is essential in understanding itachi because if we don't know the base of the tech we will not know anything about the advances.
Susano'o
According to Tobi, for a Sharingan user to activate the Susanoo is a rarity.[2] Like the other techniques granted by the Mangekyō Sharingan, the user's eyes and body are strained while using Susanoo because it consumes a large amount of their chakra. Sasuke described it as feeling pain in every cell in his body which only grew from prolonged use.[3] Susanoo is formed through the materialisation of the user's chakra and as such differs in appearance as well as colour between users.

Despite Susanoo's impressive defensive capabilities, the protection it grants its user is not absolute. Even though it envelopes and anchors the user, the user can be thrown out of the upper half of Susanoo by manipulating the substance under their feet. This was seen when Gaara used sand to pull Madara out of his Susanoo.[4] Also, a sufficiently strong blow will still result in damage, especially during the technique's developmental stages. The only known ways to attack the user while Susanoo is active, is either to draw the wielder out of the technique and then attack,[4] bind and restrict its movements, or to break the defence with overwhelming force. Susanoo users are also vulnerable to attacks which don't actually deal blows to it, such as strong lights and sounds, that can also impair their ability to sustain Susanoo.[5]

Itachi's Version

Itachi's version is depicted as yellow in the manga,[13] while it was red in the anime.[14] Of all the known Susanoo, Itachi's looks the most humanoid. When seen in its complete form without armour, it has a normal face with what resembles locks of hair framing it. The only oddities that Itachi's Susanoo displayed are an appendage on its chin reminiscent of a Pharaoh's false beard and the traditional two right hands as well as six fingers per hand that all Susanoo have. When in its complete form, the armour that surrounds Itachi's Susanoo resembles a long-nosed tengu which wears a pair of magatama earrings. Its right hands also gain plating on it giving the hand the appearance of "peeling". His Susanoo was later depicted with a secondary left hand as well in its incomplete form.[15] Itachi has also displayed the ability to manifest parts of Susanoo such as its ribcage or hands as the situation calls for.[16]

In its left hand it wields the Yata Mirror as a shield which is endowed with all nature transformations, allowing it to change its own characteristics depending on the the attack it receives, thus nullifying the attack.

In its right hand it wields the Sword of Totsuka. The sword is a kind of Sword of Kusanagi also known as the Sakegari Longsword (酒刈太刀, Sakegari no Tachi; Literally meaning "Sake Cutter Longsword"), is sheathed in a sake jar held by a third hand growing from Susanoo's right forearm. It is an ethereal weapon with an enchanted blade capable of sealing anyone it pierces. Victims of the sword are trapped in a genjutsu-like "world of drunken dreams" for all eternity. For longer-ranged attacks, it is able to use the powerful Yasaka Magatama, which consists of three chakra tomoe bound together by a single circular chakra thread. Zetsu said that the Totsuka Sword combined with the Yata Mirror essentially makes Susanoo invincible.[1]

Source:

You must be registered for see links

Now that we have a definition and something to go off from lets really break down some of the things said in this description that this thread refuses to except.

"Yata Mirror as a shield which is endowed with all nature transformations, allowing it to change its own characteristics depending on the the attack it receives, thus nullifying the attack.:"
We do not have a full thought on what this completely means because it says "allowing it to change its own characteristics depending on the attack it receives" this could mean it changes shape depending on whats coming it could mean something completely different but what is clear from this is "Yato essentially makes Susano'o invincible" Front in your face quote of Yato Mirror. Now We also get this from it "Thus nullifying the attack" You said "it never specified that it can block multi-element attacks" Just because their is not evidence that The move can block multi-elements does not mean you have evidence that it can not. If Something is titled thay is "blocks all attacks" then thats simply what is does you can not go around that.

Nullifying-to render or declare legally void or inoperative;to deprive (something) of value or effectiveness

The Totsuka sword may seem hard to take into but it does 1 hit KO. The True flaw in this tech is amongst pierce, but their isn't many shinobi that could take a powerful mass swipe from it either. NB members and I Consider it a 1 Hit KO because of its description.

"In its right hand it wields the Sword of Totsuka. The sword is a kind of Sword of Kusanagi also known as the Sakegari Longsword (酒刈太刀, Sakegari no Tachi; Literally meaning "Sake Cutter Longsword"), is sheathed in a sake jar held by a third hand growing from Susanoo's right forearm. It is an ethereal weapon with an enchanted blade capable of sealing anyone it pierces. Victims of the sword are trapped in a genjutsu-like "world of drunken dreams" for all eternity. For longer-ranged attacks, it is able to use the powerful Yasaka Magatama, which consists of three chakra tomoe bound together by a single circular chakra thread. Zetsu said that the Totsuka Sword combined with the Yata Mirror essentially makes Susanoo invincible."

A 1 hit "Piece sealing" is in other words an 1 hit KO. I say this because if you are sucked into the jar, trapped into an eternity genjutsu without any escape i would claim it as such. These three effects are indeed a 1 Hit KO. Itachi's Susano'o gets it's worship from it being not only nearly an indestructible defense, but its not a force to be reckon with offensely and with this being all in the arsenal of itachi's susano'o is where it gets it's praise. Every example you have posted are examples of how other susano'o users have been countered not itachi's himself which starts you off comparing between susano'os. I find it unfair for you to make such claims and then attempt to enforce that Susano'os not be compared. We have not seen Yato Mirror counter or have even heard of possible counters for it so you as a reader can not take it upon your self to force assumptions and name things that have counter the "Susano'o ribs" of "other susano;o users" to itachi;s full form yato mirror. Your Thread posses these qualities which make it double irrelevent to your topic post. With that being said about ur so called "Flaws in itachi;s susano;o" making that invalid with the addition of The 1 hit Koing Offense i will name it as indescructible especially after what was mention easier about how susano'o is based by the users chakra and with having chakra remained destroying it, the user can easily remanipulate his charkra to remake the parts destroy. another NB member brought this up and you ignored them... Nice debating hope you learned something new and if you havent too bad lol

 

[Yanto]

susano isn't invincible

 

[itachixnamikaze]

Yes but they never stated whether or not it only applied to jutsu with more than one element, like lava, dust, or any type of multi-element release.

True. Everyone has a weakness

 

[Yanto]

remember tsunade destroyed it

 

[Microsword57]

remember tsunade destroyed it

You are correct but hes talking about "itachi's susano'o" and she broke the susano'o that was not in full form.

 

[9Bijuu]

Spoiler

You are obviously the hardest person to get a point across to so this is my last post to you enjoy. Only time type advantage does not provail is when that the disadvantage attack is much more powerful which its not. Chidori Nagashi is a A-Rank tech if im right and it even puts certain strain on the user. You do realize when naruto hit him with the rasenghan it made him leave for the reason of it bring him to some sort of peace, thats why naruto hit him with the Rasenshuriken and he got right back up edo ends from R.I.P or sealing.Naruto hit him in his scar from his fight with the 9th tails which he was embarrased about. I never said the part around susano;o thats not shield by susano'o were indestructible i simple was stating that it is not easy to break far from it actually because we have never seen an conflict where it has even cracked. You made that assumption thinking i was calling it "indestructible" which i did not. You were the first to compare Madara's susano'o with other uchihas susano'o so i responded in the same way. I explained already how chidori nagashi would prevent the sand from grabbing his feet with the lack of speed boost from onoki and from the disadvantage and strength of that tech. While you were right that Susano'o's are different i want to point out that techs are as well. Madara does not posses Chidori nagashi in his arsenal. Because you saw Madara get pulled out his susano'o you took that and stretch that theory beyond its limits. ME and your conversation as slowly progressed form being about itachi's susano'o to all susano'os. You initialized insults and i followed up. You have to Realize that you can't immediately make the assumption that "Madara's susano'o is more special and that other susano'os do not have legs" We have yet to see Sasuke or itachi do this but that does not mean it does not exist in their arsenal. Kishimoto has suprised us with techs that we have not known of or known a character has.. never expect that what the manga shows currently is all that exist. Just like how we have never seen itachi's susano'o countered but you have manage to make a forum saying it can be destroyed. So if we are playing the game of "if its not in the manga now its not real" then this entire forum is invalid and needs to be close. Since that obviously not the case lets get into what we know about Itachi's susano'o.

IT can go up to Final Forum for the Upper Half.
It possess the yato mirror which is said to counter all attacks.
IT has the Toskato sword that pierces and seals you into an eternity of genjutsu.
It has not been broken yet.

Lets get into some details about the equipment it possess.
Yato mirror is a spiritual weapon which is why it has never been found by orochimaru who has done years of research and struggling.
once again it is said to block any attack.
Now a Question: Can Something without a physical form something that the handle itself can not touch be disintegrated?
Disintegration- to separate into parts or lose intactness or solidness
Solidness- firm, hard, or compact in substance
Source: dictionary.com

Lets get into the details of what All Susano'o's Possess, this is essential in understanding itachi because if we don't know the base of the tech we will not know anything about the advances.
Susano'o
According to Tobi, for a Sharingan user to activate the Susanoo is a rarity.[2] Like the other techniques granted by the Mangekyō Sharingan, the user's eyes and body are strained while using Susanoo because it consumes a large amount of their chakra. Sasuke described it as feeling pain in every cell in his body which only grew from prolonged use.[3] Susanoo is formed through the materialisation of the user's chakra and as such differs in appearance as well as colour between users.

Despite Susanoo's impressive defensive capabilities, the protection it grants its user is not absolute. Even though it envelopes and anchors the user, the user can be thrown out of the upper half of Susanoo by manipulating the substance under their feet. This was seen when Gaara used sand to pull Madara out of his Susanoo.[4] Also, a sufficiently strong blow will still result in damage, especially during the technique's developmental stages. The only known ways to attack the user while Susanoo is active, is either to draw the wielder out of the technique and then attack,[4] bind and restrict its movements, or to break the defence with overwhelming force. Susanoo users are also vulnerable to attacks which don't actually deal blows to it, such as strong lights and sounds, that can also impair their ability to sustain Susanoo.[5]

Itachi's Version

Itachi's version is depicted as yellow in the manga,[13] while it was red in the anime.[14] Of all the known Susanoo, Itachi's looks the most humanoid. When seen in its complete form without armour, it has a normal face with what resembles locks of hair framing it. The only oddities that Itachi's Susanoo displayed are an appendage on its chin reminiscent of a Pharaoh's false beard and the traditional two right hands as well as six fingers per hand that all Susanoo have. When in its complete form, the armour that surrounds Itachi's Susanoo resembles a long-nosed tengu which wears a pair of magatama earrings. Its right hands also gain plating on it giving the hand the appearance of "peeling". His Susanoo was later depicted with a secondary left hand as well in its incomplete form.[15] Itachi has also displayed the ability to manifest parts of Susanoo such as its ribcage or hands as the situation calls for.[16]

In its left hand it wields the Yata Mirror as a shield which is endowed with all nature transformations, allowing it to change its own characteristics depending on the the attack it receives, thus nullifying the attack.

In its right hand it wields the Sword of Totsuka. The sword is a kind of Sword of Kusanagi also known as the Sakegari Longsword (酒刈太刀, Sakegari no Tachi; Literally meaning "Sake Cutter Longsword"), is sheathed in a sake jar held by a third hand growing from Susanoo's right forearm. It is an ethereal weapon with an enchanted blade capable of sealing anyone it pierces. Victims of the sword are trapped in a genjutsu-like "world of drunken dreams" for all eternity. For longer-ranged attacks, it is able to use the powerful Yasaka Magatama, which consists of three chakra tomoe bound together by a single circular chakra thread. Zetsu said that the Totsuka Sword combined with the Yata Mirror essentially makes Susanoo invincible.[1]

Source:

You must be registered for see links

Now that we have a definition and something to go off from lets really break down some of the things said in this description that this thread refuses to except.

"Yata Mirror as a shield which is endowed with all nature transformations, allowing it to change its own characteristics depending on the the attack it receives, thus nullifying the attack.:"
We do not have a full thought on what this completely means because it says "allowing it to change its own characteristics depending on the attack it receives" this could mean it changes shape depending on whats coming it could mean something completely different but what is clear from this is "Yato essentially makes Susano'o invincible" Front in your face quote of Yato Mirror. Now We also get this from it "Thus nullifying the attack"

Nullifying-to render or declare legally void or inoperative;to deprive (something) of value or effectiveness

The Totsuka sword may seem hard to take into but it does 1 hit KO. The True flaw in this tech is amongst pierce, but their isn't many shinobi that could take a powerful mass swipe from it either. NB members and I Consider it a 1 Hit KO because of its description.

"In its right hand it wields the Sword of Totsuka. The sword is a kind of Sword of Kusanagi also known as the Sakegari Longsword (酒刈太刀, Sakegari no Tachi; Literally meaning "Sake Cutter Longsword"), is sheathed in a sake jar held by a third hand growing from Susanoo's right forearm. It is an ethereal weapon with an enchanted blade capable of sealing anyone it pierces. Victims of the sword are trapped in a genjutsu-like "world of drunken dreams" for all eternity. For longer-ranged attacks, it is able to use the powerful Yasaka Magatama, which consists of three chakra tomoe bound together by a single circular chakra thread. Zetsu said that the Totsuka Sword combined with the Yata Mirror essentially makes Susanoo invincible."

A 1 hit "Piece sealing" is in other words an 1 hit KO. I say this because if you are sucked into the jar, trapped into an eternity genjutsu without any escape i would claim it as such. These three effects are indeed a 1 Hit KO. Itachi's Susano'o gets it's worship from it being not only nearly an indestructible defense, but its not a force to be reckon with offensely and with this being all in the arsenal of itachi's susano'o is where it gets it's praise. Every example you have posted are examples of how other susano'o users have been countered not itachi's himself which starts you off comparing between susano'os. I find it unfair for you to make such claims and then attempt to enforce that Susano'os not be compared. We have not seen Yato Mirror counter or have even heard of possible counters for it so you as a reader can not take it upon your self to force assumptions and name things that have counter the "Susano'o ribs" of "other susano;o users" to itachi;s full form yato mirror. Your Thread posses these qualities which make it double irrelevent to your topic post. With that being said about ur so called "Flaws in itachi;s susano;o" making that invalid with the addition of The 1 hit Koing Offense i will name it as indescructible especially after what was mention easier about how susano'o is based by the users chakra and with having chakra remained destroying it, the user can easily remanipulate his charkra to remake the parts destroy. another NB member brought this up and you ignored them... Nice debating hope you learned something new and if you havent too bad lol

With no offence intended, I didn't read this because it was a wall and you linked a wiki and nothing else the entire time thus it's pretty much pure speculation and I can't be bothered with it.

I did read that I ignored someone, later on I'll go back and re-read the posts - I may have over looked something but I never ignore posters.

Decided to read the last sentence, I did learn some new things (edited the thread a bit since it first went up in response to it) but none of them from fan boys who violently oppose my arguments with nothing but their opinions.

EDIT: Hope you don't mind but I spoiler'd your post, it was very long and I didn't want to make the page too long.

You are correct but hes talking about "itachi's susano'o" and she broke the susano'o that was not in full form.

True but the thing was practically disintegrated. There's nothing to say that a full powered susanoo would be able to take that hit, honestly, that punch is one of the most powerful things we've seen in this entire series.

 

[Nikes]

Kisames shark bullet > susanoo

 

[PsychoticMertz]

Great thread. Always wanted to know the flaws of susanoo. Now wheres my cookie and brownie?

 

[Microsword57]

With no offence intended, I didn't read this because it was a wall and you linked a wiki and nothing else the entire time thus it's pretty much pure speculation and I can't be bothered with it.

I did read that I ignored someone, later on I'll go back and re-read the posts - I may have over looked something but I never ignore posters.

Decided to read the last sentence, I did learn some new things (edited the thread a bit since it first went up in response to it) but none of them from fan boys who violently oppose my arguments with nothing but their opinions.

EDIT: Hope you don't mind but I spoiler'd your post, it was very long and I didn't want to make the page too long.

any excuse you can to avoid being proven wrong well im done with u lol enjoy...

 

[9Bijuu]

Great thread. Always wanted to know the flaws of susanoo. Now wheres my cookie and brownie?

Someone already ate 'em all. :/

any excuse you can to avoid being proven wrong well im done with u lol enjoy...

That wall would prove me just as wrong the wall in front of me would.

 

[ReapTermin]

I think that the Yata Mirror can deflect all attacks, but I don't think it can withstand the full force of a Bijuu Dama. It might have the ability to deflect it, but the amount of power a Bijuu Dama has would just blow the Susano'o user away. And I think that the Totsuka Sword seals any Ninja if the user of Susano'o actually wanted to seal that person.

 

[9Bijuu]

I think that the Yata Mirror can deflect all attacks, but I don't think it can withstand the full force of a Bijuu Dama. It might have the ability to deflect it, but the amount of power a Bijuu Dama has would just blow the Susano'o user away. And I think that the Totsuka Sword seals any Ninja if the user of Susano'o actually wanted to seal that person.

In regards to TBB, fully agreed but a lot of Uchiha fans are being thick-headed about that.

In regards to Totsuka's sealing I just feel that if that were true Oro would've been immediately sealed the moment the sword made contact with him.

Someone mentioned that Itachi can seal as he wishes as well but the issue I see with that is unless the sealing process had started, Nagato wouldn't have been freed of edo and become capable of speaking. The sealing begins when you're impaled, anything from that point - including my theory, is purely speculation.

 

[PsychoticMertz]

Oh well i enjoyed reading it, guess i don't need a cookie.

 

[ReapTermin]

In regards to TBB, fully agreed but a lot of Uchiha fans are being thick-headed about that.

In regards to Totsuka's sealing I just feel that if that were true Oro would've been immediately sealed the moment the sword made contact with him.

Someone mentioned that Itachi can seal as he wishes as well but the issue I see with that is unless the sealing process had started, Nagato wouldn't have been freed of edo and become capable of speaking. The sealing begins when you're impaled, anything from that point - including my theory, is purely speculation.

I agree with you. +Rep after I can. I gave too much rep today... I have to wait now. LOL Good Thread too.

 

[9Bijuu]

I agree with you. +Rep after I can. I gave too much rep today... I have to wait now. LOL Good Thread too.

Thanks.

 

[Thatoneguy]

+1 brownie for me=] +1 rep for you. Some of the points i didnt agree on, but it was still nice to see a thread like this but with an attempt at more thought.

 

[Yondaime Namikaze]

=rep and respect . good research and hard work coming up with this

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

the biggest flaw with it is itachis chakra levels. they suck. he can only stay guarded by yata mirror vs a constant barrage for only so long. and since its chakra then kisame and rinnegan users are perfect counters.

also it seems like totsuka cant impale other chakra defences, namely other susanos. so for all its offence it wont break another full armoured susano from sasuke or a chakra barrier from kushina.