Sage Mode and Mangekyou Sharingan are Equal

[true enigma]

That logic is piss poor.

how bout this logic... jaraiya is old with a bummmy incomplete sage mode and long hair and he would be embarassed like his rival did with low diff at the most.

 

[Scryed]

With what Jaraiya has shown, i'd still say that Itachi is stronger.

Though I'd assume we didn't see Jaraiya's full capabilities. Pain said that if Jaraiya had previously known his secret, then he would've lost. What I saw Pain do at Konoha was alot more then what he did against Jaraiya. With what Jaraiya has shown, he doesn't stand much of a chance against the six paths of pain. That is, unless he has Ma and Pa use the frog song while he kills all 6 of them, starting with Naraka Path.

Note: If Ma or Pa dies, it's possible that the technique won't be able to be used since it isn't Jaraiya's technique, it's theirs.

If all the pains would've utilized their full potential in that battle against him, I honestly don't see Jaraiya winning with their supposed perfect tag-team.

Unless Nagato meant that if he knew his secret from the start, he could've went to the real pain (Nagato) instead of having to deal with the paths.

This also applies to Itachi. I still don't know whether Susanoo arrows are faster than amaterasu. I'd have to say that perhaps it's possible for Jaraiya to dodge amaterasu by sensing it like Nagato did (Though Nagato never expected Itachi to use it on him since they were at first on the same team before Kabuto took control over him therefore he got caught.)

Jaraiya might be able to sense it but I don't know whether he has the speed or snake-like mobility to dodge it the way Kabuto dodged it. Perhaps he could step to the side as soon as he senses it. It's still unknown to me but I guess i'll give it to Jaraiya in terms of dodging it in Sage Mode.

Tsukyomi and genjutsu. Would constant pumping of nature chakra give him immunity to genjutsu? I still don't know whether it'll affect him or not. Nagato is able to constantly change his chakra nature which avoided him from being detected by what seemed to be sensors. If Ma and Pa's auditory genjutsu wouldn't have been used on his paths, people would have argued that this would give him immunity to genjutsu. To break genjutsu, one must disturb their chakra. If Sage Mode does that, then it gives immunity. If it doesn't, then no. I would also like to know whether it does or not so let me know.

Susanoo(along with Totsuka Blade and Yata Mirror). Yata Mirror would protect Itachi from head-on attacks. So any attacks that launch head-on towards Itachi would be useless. Jaraiya could use the swamp to attempt to sink Susanoo though it would most likely be deactivated and reactivated if Itachi manages to jump out of the way. If Itachi doesn't, then it could probably sink him if it has the same effect as quick sand. Totsuka would only seal Jaraiya if Itachi stabs him with it. Itachi is still able to swing with it and attempt to cut Jaraiya in half. Jaraiya doesn't half anything to pierce Susanoo especially with Yata Mirror but his Swamp could prove to be effective.

Taijutsu is given to Jaraiya in Sage Mode. More or less, I think that if the battle between them two would start with Jaraiya in base, Jaraiya would lose if he gets hit with amaterasu on the spot. He has no counters after being caught with it. If the battle starts with Sage Mode, Jaraiya would put up a good fight but Itachi might win at the end. It's still possible for Jaraiya to win in some scenarios too.

To me, Itachi>SM Jaraiya but the gap isn't too great. The gap between their strength is around the same as the gap between Itachi and Nagato's strength. With my favor being in Nagato.

 

[TouchMyMangos]

how bout this logic... jaraiya is old with a bummmy incomplete sage mode and long hair and he would be embarassed like his rival did with low diff at the most.

Not worth the effort.

in order for jiraya to use sage mode he needs ma and pa frog.

And there nothing stopping itachi from getting fukusaku to remove jirayas head.

You talk as if Ma and Pa cannot fight back with a genjutsu/attack of their own. They are more than just normal summons. Anyway, i'm gone.

 

[Turson]

Didn't read.

How lame can you be? Asking for explanation first, and stating that you didnt read later... you are not even worthy to be talking with.

 

[Kakashi Fang]

Oh god I'm not even gonna interfere.

You can't really compare SM and MS, all I'm gonna say.

 

[BlackDude]

MS beats SM with ease my friend

 

[Shisui Namikaze]

He was hiding his true motives from kisame and akutski, what would he get out of fighting him???? Nothing he already did what he came to konoha for on the occasion in which he stated that, to make sure his little brother was safe.

Bullshit. He never stated that he was hiding his true motives so that means he was telling the true. Jman would bust his ass:scorps:

 

[The Eye]

Dont listen to these people your argument is great. Jairya is greater than or equal to itachi honestly.

 

[Shisui Namikaze]

it was staed last week ago that everything itachi said before his death was a lie.

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and no itachi would bust his ass. but lets be honest in your entire time on the base shisui the only thing you've ever come up with is a fake interveiw regarding minato.

Reported

 

[kevenc]

SM > MS

Naruto > Sasuke

Deal with it Uchihas fanboys

 

[Shisui Namikaze]

SM > MS

Naruto > Sasuke

Deal with it Uchihas fanboys

This

 

[~MC117~]

no... not even close... U_U

-Biju Mode is equal to the MS/EMS (since we have seen nothing more in the EMS, I'll assume it merelly grants the user no-blinding effect for now).

-Dust release is equal to the EMS...

-Wood Release (Hashirama scale) is Equal to the EMS

... But, no, Sage Mode is a good ability, but it does not grant you nearly as much as an MS/EMS... U_U

 

[jlfs1195]

jiraya is >or= to itachi. but ppl just dont want to admit it. SM is the key in this fight if jiraya enter SM then itachi is dead because of his low chakra reserves.

 

[minatoisagod]

itachi does lie but he is cautious and i mean very cautious if he said that about j man its just adds to his justified hype. Oro as much as i like him his stats in the data book are lower than j mans so oro is not equal to j man.

 

[Owarij]

Unless you can, or are going to fully explain that in detail, I suggest you don't post things like that.

make a versus thread or revive an old itachi vs jiraya, T.T , done this so many times its nothing

if you can't see it yourself, i'll show you it

 

[BlackDude]

that is BS.

While yes itachi is definatley superior to jiraya.

Naruto in SM is at least equal to sauske if not better.

For one Naruto isnt even faster than V2 in SM

that being said MS > SM

ur a fanboy

Sasuke is alot better than Naruto SM and Jiraya SM

 

[Lankeysob]

1. I disagree. Naruto himself admitted that Sasuke was in fact more powerful when he had MS and Naruto only had Sage Mode. While I believe that Naruto could have kicked Sasuke's ass when he met Sasuke after Sasuke fought Danzo, I still agree with him in that Sasuke was more powerful at the time

2. As for your argument about Itachi</=/>Jiraiya, idk and idc if it's right or wrong, but it will turn this thread into a flame war. So you've been warned

He did not admit that Sasuke was stronger.... Find me the page where he says that. I remember him saying if they were to fight that they would both die and I also remember Zetsu telling Sasuke that he thought Naruto was stronger than him now but not the other way around.... Anyways, I believe that Jiraiya and Itachi were about equal only problem is that Jiraiya takes a bit of time to get into sage mode where Itachi can activate his MS quickly.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Again, this is a ****ing stupid argument.

Sage Mode is a state of being, not a jutsu itself. The MS and EMS grant JUTSU, but is not a state of being more than the ability to use new jutsu.

ALL SAGE MODE DOES IS AMPLIFY ABILITIES YOU ALREADY HAVE. There is no "equal" to it and MS.

Meaning that if Sasuke knew how to use Sage Mode, his Amaterasu would be more powerful IN Sage Mode than WITHOUT it. Sage Mode granted Naruto a few abilities that aren't normal, such as enhanced perception (something that the Sharingan has), the ability to sense chakra (which in a fight isn't a killer technique) and Frog-fu which isn't a technique on the scale of Amaterasu. It's the jutsu that he already has, along with a strength and speed increase receiving a boost that makes Sage Mode so great. Naruto was low-jonin level without Sage Mode, and with it, he became what is known as "Kage" material. All it did was amplify what he could do.

It's not a hard concept to wrap your head around. Sharingan is an exclusive ability used by only a select few people, whereas Sage Mode can be used by anyone with a large chakra reserve (with Dragon Sage Mode needing a particular body). This means that even Kakashi could learn Sage Mode if he gained a larger chakra reserve.

 

[sG Taka]

Stopped reading after: ...Kage level like Kakashi. April Fools! Yea, yea I got'cha.

 

[Naruto Ninetails]

Sorry your argument for jiraya = itachi is really really really weak

Itachi murderstomps jiraya

everything in red is a link to a manga page for evidence

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Actions speak louder than words: you don't turn your back on someone that

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to use your exhausting trump-card genjutsu,

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, on a broken genin (although that is something that someone that stomped Jiriaya's genius-rival

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might do...) We know Itachi has

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to Kisame about the hype he gave Jiraiya that

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his previous statement, and Kisame even

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himself. So between ridiculously false hype and databook stat totals, which are a staple argument of Jiriaya fans because Itachi has the most maximum scores of any ninja, whereas Jiraiya has very few maximum scores.Now we can move on to... Feats-stuff.

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First, if Jiraiya summon an army on top of Ma and Pa, Itachi can dodge a toad army all day

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who

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. Secondly, Itachi has

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to manipulate multiple targets, or he control summons with the Sharingan power that Minato needed a

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placed on the controller to counter. Sasuke directly stated that

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, but that it was stronger than his own at the time, being able to control the Nine Tails. It is the same ability, according to the databook, and common misnomer is that the power is an illusion, or that the summons are being tricked, is incorrect. The databook and Manda indicate that it isn't a trick, but a raw control:



As for the hyped Food Cart Destroyer or Yomi Numa for that matter, please note: Jiriaya said that his senbon technique was his

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i.e. his hardest jutsu to evade. The databook text of Food Cart Destroyer does say "right above". However, it means right above as "in a straight line above". The Japanese word is 真上 (ma-ue). There is no implication of distance, other than the mentioned several hundred-foot dive. This is why it has only ever been used on giant creatures, and not tiny ninja, because the ninja have a great deal more time to react. Moreover, the Sharingan determines the

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of a technique, and would see it coming. Moreover, Jiriaya, like Killer Bee, is an

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, and if by some miracle he achieves Hermit Mode, Itachi is able to

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to kill Jiraiya since their willpower is almost certainly less than the Nine Tailed Fox. But lets say Jiraiya starts in Hermit Mode, and that Itachi can't control Fukasaku to remove Jiriaya's head.

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Jiriaya's detection barrier is a banner for pro-Jiriaya arguers, but they frequently ignore that Jiraiya himself said that

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and without knowing

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he has to do what everyone has had to do. Either not look at Itachi at all, or look at Itachi's eyes (

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.) Having inferior intellect and knowledge of genjutsu to Orochimaru will come in handy here. But if Ma and Pa, who aren't being controlled for plot reasons, break him out, realize that it still took time for

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to break weaker genjutsu, and even

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However, Jiriaya might as well instantly reflect all of Itachi's genjutsu back on to Itachi for all the good it will do him against the rest of Itachi's arsenal.

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There are some key things everybody ignores about this feat. The Raikage spent time

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for a shunshin that Karin and C noticed. Secondly, the Raikage was tipped off by

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. Neither of these are likely for Jiraiya who will probably be

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. As a tertiary point, it's highly unlikely that Jiraiya can even match A's ushrouded reflexes. And as a quaternary point, Itachi's Amaterasu burns

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than Sasuke's thus far, and was activated while running at full speed towards a wall five feet away. And then, his ultimate jutsu:

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It's a common mistake to assume Susano'o is a primarily defensive jutsu. It's not. The databook first and foremost hypes the

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that presumably surpasses his other two techniques. It caught Orochimaru in between words, right in front of him, without him even noticing, when other speed demons get

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off. Kakashi and Danzō had to use instant jutsu to deflect Susano'o attacks because they were so fast, and Sasuke only recently attained

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of Susano'o, which the author decided was a power-up to save for later. If Jiraiya is in the vicinity when it's activated, or if he thinks he break through it, then he's dead. It's also the best defensive jutsu in the manga, changing nature and shape to allegedly counter any jutsu.

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Jiriaya does not behave like a genius. He will most likely not make an immediate tactical retreat for Hermit Mode, as Gamaken was simply

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, and Jiriaya is the guy who hopped on

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to fight him. He will most likely not make a combat team of Kage Bunshin when it would have

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instead of using one as a momentary distraction. On the other hand, Itachi most likely will use genjutsu, and his Mangekyō Sharingan techniques, which Jiraiya can't answer to. Jiraiya needs to be smarter than Itachi to have a chance of winning... but he's not.​

Agreed