In-Depth study: Minato>Itachi

[iSpeak]

So anime is much better than manga? I don't know if everybody will agree to that statement. He was on time when kuruma was about to kill kushina. Tobi explained it to kushina why Minato incorporated the mark. Minato was able to save kakashi. kakashi doesn't have a mark but he was holding the kunai with his mark. Is it a coincidence that Minato was there? on time? Can you explain how he was able to save Kakashi?

Two people that Minato saved because of the mark. So, how can you explain that? All coincidence?

Anime translations are > than translations from random people that have been proven wrong many times? Im sure many other people would agree with that. Its not like im saying Anime fillers are > than Manga or anything.
Do I need to go through the Manga and post the times someone has been saved just in time? Do I need to show when Gai blocked Kisame just in time? Do I need to show Naruto saving Sakura just in time? Do I need to show when Kakashi stopped the Deva path from killing iruka just in time? I could go on forever. You need to realize this isn't real life. Those types of things happen alot in the manga for suspense. It makes the Manga/Anime much more exiting to read/watch. Neither of those situations show that Minato can sense danger.
So you cant single out Minato and forget about everyone else it has happened to, it will just make you look biased. And you don't want people to think your biased now do you?

 

[ajpn920]

*sighs* Bro your a Waste Of Time, No one said he can sense danger if you read what you posted properly all tobi says is he incorporated his seal into kushina's nothing about sensing danger, and who is to say he wasn't just checking up on kakashi and rin, don't just assume, I don't see anyone saying he can sense chakra, and LOOL Omg Your actually so sad you used PTS scans in order to say how itachi's Ms takes long to come on oh wow you do know if we were to go by your logic we may aswell wait 30s for naruto to create a rasengan come on bro get serious, go back and watch itachi vs sasuke and see how quickly he activates his Ms and uses Tsukuyomi your argument is weak and all i hear you saying is FTG and Rasengan, and use your brain he didn't put his seal inside the rasengan all he did was touch tobi's back after using the rasengan and then put the seal on his back that is all stop with your over looking of details

I don't need for someone to mention that. All I have to do is understand and analyze it. You are assuming that Minato was checking rin and kakashi. Just in time when kakashi was about to die? post me the scan where itachi switches from regular sharingan to MS in his fight with sasuke. They started the fight with genjutsu and the time that itachi shows his real self he's already in his MS mode. Are you neglecting the scans i've posted. Am I making those scans? Is closing an eye takes 30 secs? come on...

 

[ajpn920]

Anime translations are > than translations from random people that have been proven wrong many times? Im sure many other people would agree with that. Its not like im saying Anime fillers are > than Manga or anything.
Do I need to go through the Manga and post the times someone has been saved just in time? Do I need to show when Gai blocked Kisame just in the nick of time? Do I need to show when Kakashi stopped the Deva path from killing iruka just in time? I could go on forever. You need to realize this isn't real life. Those types of things happen alot in the manga for suspense. It makes the Manga/Anime much more exiting to read/watch. Neither of those situations show that Minato can sense danger.
So you cant single out Minato and forget about everyone else it has happened to, it will just make you look biased. And you don't want people to think your biased now do you?

Can't you tell the difference from your example? Minato was in another place yet he was able to save kakashi and the scans shows that. Don't neglect it if you can't show something because it will turn out that you are speculating. The scan shows Minato explaining to kakashi that the mark alertshim. One word is enough for a wise man. don't you agree?

 

[Revan]

The mark alerts him. I'm not saying that he can sense danger without the mark. I did say that the mark alerts him if someone is in danger.

read my post, the people had the mark and he didnt sense danger that existed when it started. he only went there when kakashi used the kunai and when he already knew that kushina was in danger.

So anime is much better than manga? I don't know if everybody will agree to that statement. He was on time when kuruma was about to kill kushina. Tobi explained it to kushina why Minato incorporated the mark. Minato was able to save kakashi. kakashi doesn't have a mark but he was holding the kunai with his mark. Is it a coincidence that Minato was there? on time? Can you explain how he was able to save Kakashi?

Two people that Minato saved because of the mark. So, how can you explain that? All coincidence?

mangakas often clarify things afterwards in their book-versions and animes. and the translators who translate the weekly manga often do that as a hobby and not as a job, in difference to the translators who translate it for animes.
apart from that: yes, the naruto anime is awful. but that's because the animations are bad and the extra parts exaggerate the characters' power and therefore create more plotholes.

 

[iSpeak]

Can't you tell the difference from your example? Minato was in another place yet he was able to save kakashi and the scans shows that. Don't neglect it if you can't show something because it will turn out that you are speculating. The scan shows Minato explaining to kakashi that the mark alertshim. One word is enough for a wise man. don't you agree?

Using your logic Tobi can sense danger aswell since he saved Sasuke from Ononki's dust release just in time. Is that true aswell? The same guy who got headbutted by Naruto from a mile away and never knew what happened?
I have already explained that the scan you posted are bad translations and you can clearly see it. In the anime translations, Minato never said anything about it alerting him.

 

[Darkakatsuki]

Good point. tsukuyomi will turn the tide to itachi's favor but it's not that easy to catch Minato when we know that he has S/T jutsu. The problem is tsukuyomi is a close range tech so Itachi needs to get closer to Minato to make the jutsu work.

at the bolded part: Tobi did not use genjutsu here. I wonder why. He should have used it to make his plan a success. He's not controlling anything this time.

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Yeah true but remember that looking at Tobi's mask doesn't = looking at his eyes. He went to meetings with the Akatsuki in the same room but Kisame, Deidara(his partner), Kakuzu, Hidan, all didn't know about his sharingan, you can't tell me they didn't try to look at his eye soccet when they spoke to him. Also, remember the first time Kakashi noticed Tobi's sharingan, There were seven other people there, including a Hyuga, and they were all looking at Tobi from the same distance but onlky Kakashi (with hsi sharingan) was able to see his sharingan.

What I'm saying basically is that Minato looking at Tobi doesn't mean he was gazing at his sharingan because the history shows that seing his eye is not a simple task in itself. Even when he placed a genjutsu on Konan, he had to be literally right in front of her face to do it. So I don't think Tobi could have out a Genjutsu on Minato even in that initial scene.

One other thing to take note of is that we don't even know if a Genjutsu would work on Minato, for all we know he had a seal or barrier placed on his mind to ward off genjutsu. So far Minato hasn't been placed on a genjutsu so we have no knowledge of any possible counters. Kishi could just reveal something we don't know about, like for instance, we never knew about Itachi's Magatama tech until he became an edo.

Plus, there are people who have counters for genjutsu in many different ways, we know Guy can fight without looking someone in the eyes. We know Kabuto uses his snake qualities to avoid it. We know a perfect jinchuuriki is immune to genjutsu. And we know that the Raikage is immune to genjutsu because his raiton armour constantly disrupt his chakra flow and neural synapses, which is also why he looked sasuke straight in the eye wright after he pawned C with Tsukiyomi and told him a mere sharingan wouldn't take him down.

So my point is, until Minato is actually caught in even a low genjutsu, we can't know how Tsukiyomi would effect him cause like I said before, for all we know he has a barrier in his mind, Nagato has shown us that it is possible to place this genjutsu barriers in someone's mind when he was showed to have placed them in all his subordinates from Ame, even Genin.

In any case, in a thread there is no such plot so with everything that Itachi has +tsukiyomi, he has maybe a 35%/ 40% chance of victory in the state he was in when he fought Sasuke and a 50% chance at full health.

 

[ajpn920]

read my post, the people had the mark and he didnt sense danger that existed when it started. he only went there when kakashi used the kunai and when he already knew that kushina was in danger.


i agree with him that mangakas often clarify things afterwards in their book-versions and animes. and the translators who translate the weekly manga often do that as a hobby and not as a job, in difference to the translators who translate it for animes.

at the bolded part. Please provide scans showing the people had minato's mark when tobi attacked.

 

[ajpn920]

Yeah true but remember that looking at Tobi's mask doesn't = looking at his eyes. He went to meetings with the Akatsuki in the same room but Kisame, Deidara(his partner), Kakuzu, Hidan, all didn't know about his sharingan, you can't tell me they didn't try to look at his eye soccet when they spoke to him. Also, remember the first time Kakashi noticed Tobi's sharingan, There were seven other people there, including a Hyuga, and they were all looking at Tobi from the same distance but onlky Kakashi (with hsi sharingan) was able to see his sharingan.

What I'm saying basically is that Minato looking at Tobi doesn't mean he was gazing at his sharingan because the history shows that seing his eye is not a simple task in itself. Even when he placed a genjutsu on Konan, he had to be literally right in front of her face to do it. So I don't think Tobi could have out a Genjutsu on Minato even in that initial scene.

One other thing to take note of is that we don't even know if a Genjutsu would work on Minato, for all we know he had a seal or barrier placed on his mind to ward off genjutsu. So far Minato hasn't been placed on a genjutsu so we have no knowledge of any possible counters. Kishi could just reveal something we don't know about, like for instance, we never knew about Itachi's Magatama tech until he became an edo.

Plus, there are people who have counters for genjutsu in many different ways, we know Guy can fight without looking someone in the eyes. We know Kabuto uses his snake qualities to avoid it. We know a perfect jinchuuriki is immune to genjutsu. And we know that the Raikage is immune to genjutsu because his raiton armour constantly disrupt his chakra flow and neural synapses, which is also why he looked sasuke straight in the eye wright after he pawned C with Tsukiyomi and told him a mere sharingan wouldn't take him down.

So my point is, until Minato is actually caught in even a low genjutsu, we can't know how Tsukiyomi would effect him cause like I said before, for all we know he has a barrier in his mind, Nagato has shown us that it is possible to place this genjutsu barriers in someone's mind when he was showed to have placed them in all his subordinates from Ame, even Genin.

In any case, in a thread there is no such plot so with everything that Itachi has +tsukiyomi, he has maybe a 35%/ 40% chance of victory in the state he was in when he fought Sasuke and a 50% chance at full health.

Tobi's mask doesn't = looking at his eyes

I believe that you will agree with me that Minato was looking at Tobi's face. If he's looking at the mask then definitely he's looking at the face with the mask. So, by your explanation, it's possible to look into Itachi's face without looking at his eyes, right? if it is possible then tsukuyomi would not be a problem.

 

[Ambriel]

Why none of the pictures work

 

[ajpn920]

Using your logic Tobi can sense danger aswell since he saved Sasuke from Ononki's dust release just in time. Is that true aswell? The same guy who got headbutted by Naruto from a mile away and never knew what happened?
I have already explained that the scan you posted are bad translations and you can clearly see it. In the anime translations, Minato never said anything about it alerting him.

Let's clear this out. The mark enable him to sense danger (my view) and it was clear in the scan. Tobi doesn't use any marks.

I'll put it this way: mark = sensing danger. Does Tobi use markings? As I have said, I'll go by what I have read. If you can give me a better translation then that would help a lot. If not, then I will stick with those two sources as they both have the same translation.

 

[iSpeak]

Let's clear this out. The mark enable him to sense danger (my view) and it was clear in the scan. Tobi doesn't use any marks.

I'll put it this way: mark = sensing danger. Does Tobi use markings? As I have said, I'll go by what I have read. If you can give me a better translation then that would help a lot. If not, then I will stick with those two sources as they both have the same translation.

Ajpn are you really going to use that bogus scan over the much clearer Anime translation just to suit your theory? We both know that scan is badly translated, lets be honest now. Minato never said anything about sensing danger.
So to support your theory you would need to accept that since Tobi doesn't use marks he is able to teleport anywhere he likes. Which means using your theory, Tobi should be able to sense danger from anywhere. And we both know that isn't true.
Ill say it again, Minato never said his markings alert him of anything. That is just bad translations which is very common when random people translate it.

 

[Ambriel]

Aj I have a question since Amaterasu comes from the eye. If Minato is lookin at itachi feet how would he see it comin

 

[Blaze Release]

Plus, there are people who have counters for genjutsu in many different ways, we know Guy can fight without looking someone in the eyes. We know Kabuto uses his snake qualities to avoid it. We know a perfect jinchuuriki is immune to genjutsu. And we know that the Raikage is immune to genjutsu because his raiton armour constantly disrupt his chakra flow and neural synapses, which is also why he looked sasuke straight in the eye wright after he pawned C with Tsukiyomi and told him a mere sharingan wouldn't take him down.

So my point is, until Minato is actually caught in even a low genjutsu, we can't know how Tsukiyomi would effect him cause like I said before, for all we know he has a barrier in his mind, Nagato has shown us that it is possible to place this genjutsu barriers in someone's mind when he was showed to have placed them in all his subordinates from Ame, even Genin.

Didnt want to get into this thread since ive already had enough of it and tbh i would just give a vague post. Firstly tsukuyomi (at least itachi) cannot be broken by normal means. More importantly guy's counter to eye doujutsu is a fail for several reasons. Anyway i believe it was animal path whom had the gejutsu barriers in its brain. Now that barriers purpose was to stop the availability of information from lurking out, therefore trapping the person in a genjutsu. It isnt a genjutsu counter so to speak, but rather an interrogation counter. Its this same path that guess what, ma and pa frog caught in a genjutsu

 

[ajpn920]

Ajpn are you really going to use that bogus scan over the much clearer Anime translation just to suit your theory? We both know that scan is badly translated, lets be honest now. Minato never said anything about sensing danger.
So to support your theory you would need to accept that since Tobi doesn't use marks he is able to teleport anywhere he likes. Which means using your theory, Tobi should be able to sense danger from anywhere. And we both know that isn't true.
Ill say it again, Minato never said his markings alert him of anything. That is just bad translations which is very common when random people translate it.

Are you encouraging me to neglect manga evidences? I have two sources here with the same translation. This is enough for me to believe that I am right. You say that anime gives better translation? Then how about the part where kushina told naruto that it was her mother that taught Minato sealing techs? Do you still believe that? I'm sorry but i can't agree with you on this matter. Please provide manga evidences.

 

[ajpn920]

Aj I have a question since Amaterasu comes from the eye. If Minato is lookin at itachi feet how would he see it comin

That's a good question. You know that Minato is a sensor right. Check this out. Nagato sensing amaterasu because of the pressure. A was also able to avoid amaterasu. By the way, who said that Minato can't look at Itachi's eyes? if the distance is far and it's out of tsukuyomi's range then he can look at his eyes. No evidences shows that tsukuyomi can be used long range.

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[Revan]

at the bolded part. Please provide scans showing the people had minato's mark when tobi attacked.

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,
minato is in the same room with kushina who has the seal, and a dangerous man enters the room. when should he notice if not then? he doesnt even notice the danger while standing 5 meters away from his enemy. and he's supposed to feel danger via the seal?

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kakashi looses the eye while having the kunai with him.

 

[Blaze Release]

That's a good question. You know that Minato is a sensor right. Check this out. Nagato sensing amaterasu because of the pressure. A was also able to avoid amaterasu.

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Minato is not a sensor :sy:. His s/t technique where he places his hand on the ground is more of a tracking ability. I believe you need to research exactly what a sensor is.

Anyway nagato and zetsu both whom worked with itachi, but more importantly both whom are sensors were able to sense it

 

[iSpeak]

Are you encouraging me to neglect manga evidences? I have two sources here with the same translation. This is enough for me to believe that I am right. You say that anime gives better translation? Then how about the part where kushina told naruto that it was her mother that taught Minato sealing techs? Do you still believe that? I'm sorry but i can't agree with you on this matter. Please provide manga evidences.

Wait... did you just tell me you will ignore the Anime translations because of a translation error it made? Do you really want me to go to the two sites and point out every time it has made a translation error? because I would be here for ever. If your reason for not accepting the Anime translations is because of the few times that it has made a mistake, then we shouldn't even be debating about those scans you showed. Those sites have mad wayyyy more mistakes than Anime translations. We even have people on the base re-translating the Manga every week.
Those sites you got those scans from are illegal sites with random people like you and me (who can read a bit of japanese) translating the manga. The Manga pics are what is important since it cant be changed. What you have isn't Manga evidence.
Anyway, if Minato could sense danger, he would have come way before to save Kakashi. He would have come when Obito was still alive and he, Kakashi and Rin were being attacked by those stone ninja's.

 

[Blaze Release]

Karin is a sensor. Ao is a sensor. C is a sensor. Nagato is a sensor. Zetsu is a sensor.
What minato can do by placing his hand on the ground isnt sensing but a tracking ability which shouldnt be confused with exactly what sensoring is.

This is sensoring by zetsu;

Spoiler

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Sensing has everything to do with chakra. The ability to read chakra and tell exactly how strong a person's chakra is and the distance between them and you.

Example minato has to place his hand on the floor to tell the distance between himself and an opponent. Now if the opponent has the ability to fly, he cannot tell where they are because he isnt a sensor. Sensor's whether the opponent is on the ground or in the air can tell exactly where an opponent is. Prime example is mu

 

[Ambriel]

That's a good question. You know that Minato is a sensor right. Check this out. Nagato sensing amaterasu because of the pressure. A was also able to avoid amaterasu. By the way, who said that Minato can't look at Itachi's eyes? if the distance is far and it's out of tsukuyomi's range then he can look at his eyes. No evidences shows that tsukuyomi can be used long range.

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Itachi used genjutsu on Naruto which looked to be mid - long range with no problem

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