[Predictions] Naruto Manga Chapter 580 Discussion and 581 Predictions

[webhero]

Borring Now sasuke and itachi fanboys got what they wanted, the brother cooperating and look how effing lame it was
2.5/5 if i could

 

[webhero]

sasuke going "good" would be lame as hell. End of story

 

[QuickSilver2388]

I thought Tobi was Izuna for the longest time, too, but then I remember Madara mentioning a kind of "back when Izuna died" thing. So unless Madara himself doesn't even know who Tobi is, then I think it's safe to say Izuna is long dead. And don't forget that Kakashi isn't a Uchiha, but he still awakened the Mangekou Sharingan and can use one of it's techniques, which is pretty impressive, even if he still can't use Ameratsu or Susanoo. I'm not hatin, just sayin your theories are somewhat off.

well first i want to see were Madara says Izuna died and also just because you have ms does not mean that u have to have Susanoo and/or Ameratsu I would imagine that not all uchiha have sharingan and why would tobi need to use Susanoo he cant be touched unless he wants to be already and he said he is not in full strength mabe he can not use them yet. but i would like to see where it says that izuna is dead.

 

[Chakra Wizard]

well first i want to see were Madara says Izuna died and also just because you have ms does not mean that u have to have Susanoo and/or Ameratsu I would imagine that not all uchiha have sharingan and why would tobi need to use Susanoo he cant be touched unless he wants to be already and he said he is not in full strength mabe he can not use them yet. but i would like to see where it says that izuna is dead.

It's on page 7 of chapter 577. I know you don't HAVE to use them; the guy I was quoting was just saying that Tobi would have to be a Uchiha to use or utilize the sharingan or the rinnegan, which isn't true because Kakashi not only used the Sharingan, but even awakened the Mangekou Sharingan. Plus, Nagato was an Uzumaki, but he used the Rinnegan very well, along with ALL its techniques, so I'm just saying, man.

 

[Chakra Wizard]

sasuke going "good" would be lame as hell. End of story

True dat, but it's getting all the more possible as this goes on.

 

[riar]

I thought Tobi was Izuna for the longest time, too, but then I remember Madara mentioning a kind of "back when Izuna died" thing. So unless Madara himself doesn't even know who Tobi is, then I think it's safe to say Izuna is long dead. And don't forget that Kakashi isn't a Uchiha, but he still awakened the Mangekou Sharingan and can use one of it's techniques, which is pretty impressive, even if he still can't use Ameratsu or Susanoo. I'm not hatin, just sayin your theories are somewhat off.

Kakashi awakened shairingan bcz that eye is Uchiha obito's eye

 

[Chakra Wizard]

Kakashi awakened shairingan bcz that eye is Uchiha obito's eye

No, the MANGEKYOU sharingan.

 

[Bjuu]

I give it a 3 because kabuto is beast

 

[Uchiha seeker]

awesome chaper 5/5

 

[BadBoy M]

4/5

need more :O

 

[uzumaki zeref]

i love itachi, sasuke and kabuto but I hate this chapter. nothing's so special about this chapter! :flaw:

 

[CopyCatNinja]

poor chapter

 

[Hamlet]

cant wait for the next chapter, i wanna see madara again!

 

[squigles]

Tsunade

Jariya

Orochimaru

These three characters are very important to this manga. We know they are the senins. We know they were treated some what as royalty. We know Lady Tsunade is Senju but what clans are Orochimaru and Jariya from? And who were their parents?

They are important characters because they were taught by the 3rd hokage, and more importantly, they were all on the same squad together. The 3rd was taught by the 2nd, along with the two elders of Konoha. During the 3rd great ninja war, Jiraya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru fought against Hanzou the Salamander, leader of the Hidden Rain village, and the fight lasted for several days, with no one the winner. So Hanzou named then the Sannin of the Hidden Leaf.

Aside from that title, they are just very good shinobi, and it's obvious that's why they were chosen to be hokage after the 3rd died.

I thought Tobi was Izuna for the longest time, too, but then I remember Madara mentioning a kind of "back when Izuna died" thing. So unless Madara himself doesn't even know who Tobi is, then I think it's safe to say Izuna is long dead. And don't forget that Kakashi isn't a Uchiha, but he still awakened the Mangekou Sharingan and can use one of it's techniques, which is pretty impressive, even if he still can't use Ameratsu or Susanoo. I'm not hatin, just sayin your theories are somewhat off.

I'm going to post a lot of info that is easily searchable, but I am not going to go find all the links because I don't want to make my post any more gigantic than it already is going to be.

- Typically ideals and beliefs are indoctrinated within families and/or communities.

Spoiler

At the time when Madara and his brother were powerful, the entire Uchiha clan decided to strike a peace pact with the Senju, and that's when and how Konoha was formed. As a sign of good faith, the Senju appointed the Uchiha as protectors of Konoha in the form of a Police Force, while Hashirama became the very first Hokage.

This is when Madara became a rogue ninja, a missing nin, because he felt that his entire clan had betrayed him. The only other Uchiha who would have supported Madara at that point in time, is Izuna, because they were brothers who grew up together, sought power together, and conquered entire clans together.

As far as we know, Izuna and Madara were very very close. This means that they shared ideals, and if Madara went into exile, then Izuna would have followed too. This also means that they would have shared their hatred for Konoha as brothers, and if Tobi is Izuna, that would explain why Tobi hates Konoha and tried to destroy it.

- Kagami was pictured in a squad with Tobirama, the second hokage, Hiruzen Sarutobi, Danzo, and other Konoha ninja at some point after Hashirama died (which is when Hiruzen Sarutobi became 3rd hokage). The fact that Kagami was with them as a Knonoha ninja, shows that his alliance was with Konoha.

Spoiler

This means that he would not become allies with Madara or betray Konoha. Izuna cannot be someone who is allied with Konoha, he has to be someone who shares the same ideals as Madara, and that person would not be affiliated with Konoha, especially at a time after Madara was supposedly killed and Tobirama succeeded Hashirama as second Hokage.

If it were Kagami, he would have left the village long before we see him.

- Very little is known about Izuna.

Spoiler

We know he was as strong as Madara in terms of power and ability. We know that he was a very devoted and close brother to Madara, even willingly giving Madara his eyes after Madara went blind.

It makes sense that Tobi is Izuna because we've seen Tobi's hideout where he has a massive collection of Sharingan eyes just chilling, incase he needs them. It also makes sense that he's Izuna because if he gave his eyes to Madara, he would need all those sharingan.

The fact that Tobi's eyes are always in their activated state, implies that he took them from another uchiha, which would make sense if he had originally given his eyes to Madara. It also makes sense that he is unable to use those eyes to activiate MS, EMS, or Rinnegan because you have to fulfill certain conditions before your sharingan will evolve to the next stage.

Sharingan requires that you are in a situation of heightened danger, which awakes the Tomoe, granting you heightened senses. Mangekyo requires that you kill someone who is close to you, which awakens MS. EMS requires that you take the eyes of your brother, which greatly limits the number of Uchiha that can ever have it.

If Izuna really is Tobi, at some point he killed his best friend to awaken MS. Then he gave his eyes to madara (no longer has MS, and can't gain EMS), and would therefore be unable to awaken MS or EMS unless he killed another best friend with new eyes, or got his eyes back from Madara.

- Then there is the sheer amount of knowledge that Tobi has of the uchiha clan and the eye techniques of the sharingan.

Spoiler

Only someone who has awakened the advanced stages of sharingan and read the tablets located in the the Uchiha clan dojo, would know the things that Tobi knows. Since both Izuna and Madara unlocked their MS, they would each have intimate knowledge found on those tablets.

Since Izuna gave Madara his eyes (which allowed him to unlock EMS, and also more information on those tablets), it only stands to reason that Madara shared that information with Izuna. Tobi has base level sharingan, which locks him out of being able to read those tablets, which means he came across that knowledge at some point before, implying that at some point he had MS.

Madara and Izuna are the first Uchiha to awaken MS. Madara and Izuna are close to the same age. Madara and Izuna were close enough to share fundamental ideals and formulate a plan like Tsuki no Mei, AND carry it out.

Tobi cannot be Kagami because he would never betray Konoha. Tobi cannot be Obito because Obito is Kakashi's age, while Tobi is clearly much older. Tobi cannot be the So6P's son or the So6P, because we know the So6P is dead, and his son would be too old to still be alive. If the So6P cannot live forever, why would the son be able to?

- While Tobi has stated that Izuna died, we cannot be sure that he actually did die.

Spoiler

We have no information that supports it, and it is common to deceive others within the ninja world, especially when you're trying to mastermind a plan. There is ample reason for Tobi to lie about what happened to Izuna, especially if he IS Izuna.

Izuna is the devoted and very close brother of Madara. Madara dies, then Izuna carries on the torch and the Master Plan, to honor Big Brother. Izuna calls himself Madara because no one can really prove otherwise, and begins to carry out the Master Plan.

It just makes too much sense. It fits too well. Most other theories fall flat within the first few seconds with hard facts from the Manga. All we know about Izuna is what a character tells us about him, which could easily be lies to help twist the plot further.

I know I am forgetting a bunch of other points that support my ideas, but I think my wall of text is big enough.

 

[naruto uzumaki 1]

.....

 

[MrKabutobi]

Can anyone tell me why Kabuto doesn't undo Itachi's edo tensei in order to kill him ?

 

[HG Swells]

- While Tobi has stated that Izuna died, we cannot be sure that he actually did die.

The real Madara also mentioned that Izuna had died, and he would have no reason to lie about it given the context.

Can anyone tell me why Kabuto doesn't undo Itachi's edo tensei in order to kill him ?

Seems as if he can't, not with Kotoamatsukami active.

 

[serpiente clan]

It's on page 7 of chapter 577. I know you don't HAVE to use them; the guy I was quoting was just saying that Tobi would have to be a Uchiha to use or utilize the sharingan or the rinnegan, which isn't true because Kakashi not only used the Sharingan, but even awakened the Mangekou Sharingan. Plus, Nagato was an Uzumaki, but he used the Rinnegan very well, along with ALL its techniques, so I'm just saying, man.

broky is you still belive that tobi give nagato the rannegan you has to be the king moron :sy: we see that nagato got rannegan wen he was i kid :shrug:

is i got rannegan way i goin to give my eye that son stupet is helll:scorps:

 

[squigles]

The real Madara also mentioned that Izuna had died, and he would have no reason to lie about it given the context.

Yes, and he probably did die. However, that doesn't mean he stayed dead. Right now we are at a point in the Manga where roughly half of all the important ninja characters have been brought back to life at least one time or another.

Madara is a very powerful ninja. Madara knows techniques that many others don't know. I doubt it would be a stretch for him to bring Izuna back to life. I doubt it would be a stretch for him to bring ANYONE back to life, ESPECIALLY when he possessed the Rinnegan at some point before he died.

Like I said before, I left out a great many details about my theory, because it's a lot of information, and I am not trying to write a book about it.

- We know that Orochimaru was experimenting on abducted children from Konoha, trying to fuse Hashirama's DNA with them. Yamato is the ONLY surviving child from those experiments (that we know of).

- Orochimaru had to get that DNA from somewhere.

- We know that Zetsu is the result of some sort of experiment/technique using Hashirama's DNA.

- It's entirely possible that Madara awakened the Rinnegan long before he fought Hashirama, and that fighting Hashirama was to secure the DNA to create a new body to store his dead brother's soul in. That could be the secret to the So6Ps 'creation' power, using the Rinnegan, Susanoo, and wood release to create life.

- If you pay close attention to the story, Tobi says he's the one who cultured Hashirama's cells to create the army of Zetsus. He could be lying, but it's entirely possible. If Madara died after his battle with Hashirama, he could have used what was left of his power to create Tobi's body and return Izuna's soul to it, much like Nagato did for the people of Konoha.

- Tobi could have tried doing the same thing to revive his brother, unsuccessfully. The result of his failed attempt to bring back Madara could be Zetsu.

Can anyone tell me why Kabuto doesn't undo Itachi's edo tensei in order to kill him ?

It seems as though he can't do it at all, because if he could, he could just unsummon him as well. It appears as though Itachi is no longer bound to Kabuto's technique, and the only way he's going anywhere is by releasing Edo Tensei himself.

broky is you still belive that tobi give nagato the rannegan you has to be the king moron

If you believe that Nagato awoke the Rinnegan natrually, you're a moron. You have to be an Uchiha to awaken Rinnegan. It goes Uchiha > Sharingan > Mangekyo Sharingan > Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan > Rinnegan.

We know that Nagato was given the Rinnegan because it was never deactivated once he got it. One of the Rinnegan's ocular powers is the ability to produce more Rinnegan, which we have seen from both Nagato and Tobi (their minions all had Rinnegan too).

It's unclear whether or not Tobi gave Nagato the actual Rinnegan from Madara or created new Rinnegan out of Nagato's eyes, but it IS clear why he gave it to him. Nagato's family was killed by Konoha ninja, which sparked hatred towards Konoha within Nagato. Nagato was meant to be a pawn to control in a war against Konoha.

- Tobi gets mad @ Nagato because he dies using the Rebirth technique to revive the people of Konoha, and Tobi says 'Nagato was supposed to use that technique for me.' I'm pretty positive that he was going to use it to revive Madara or move Izuna's soul back into his real body, maybe both.

 

[MrKabutobi]

Seems as if he can't, not with Kotoamatsukami active.

Shisui's genjutsu alow itachi to control himself, not to break his bound with Kabuto so Kabuto can still undo it. Am I right ? If the bound was broken, the edo tensei on itachi would end and he would die (a second time ^^)