Minato created the rasengan and has the best mastery over it in the manga. I've already shown you a scan of the damage the rasengan can do and a suiton has never done that kind of damage. Where you got the idea that suiton is stronger than the rasengan I have no idea.
I know ma and pa falls under summoning but they come with their own unique jutsu making them even more lethal and once again Tobirama couldn't do anything against Minato's summonings if they fought.
I never said Tobirama is an idiot, only that Minato's very intelligent. Considering he's been the only one who's actually been able to injure Tobi is a testament to that. He was also said to be a genius seen once a decade at best.
First of all i thought this was about techniques therefore im not even sure why you brought intelligence into this. Think you are confusing this discussion with a vs thread
Secondly minato has the best mastery of rasengan, id dispute this and say naruto due to his variation, but this is another topic all together therefore for you lets say minato is the best.
Rasengan is a physical technique therefore obviously its impact would be greater than a suiton which isnt about impact. If you are judging the ability of a technique on impact what you are basically saying is that rasengan > amaterasu and that clearly isnt the case.
Mastery of suiton and a vast chakra could do wonders. Example is the ability to control the battle field and basically attack with water source youve created which has surrounded the battlefield. This is strength of suiton, it has nothing to do with impact. Impact jutsu's are rs, kirin, dust release
Again this isnt a vs thread therefore im not sure why you keep on mentioning ma and pa. This is going by techniques and they fall under summonings
First of all i thought this was about techniques therefore im not even sure why you brought intelligence into this. Think you are confusing this discussion with a vs thread
Secondly minato has the best mastery of rasengan, id dispute this and say naruto due to his variation, but this is another topic all together therefore you you lets say minato is the best.
Rasengan is a physical technique therefore obviously its impact would be greater than a suiton which isnt about impact. If you are judging the ability of a technique on impact what you are basically saying is that rasengan > amaterasu and that clearly isnt the case.
Mastery of suiton and a vast chakra could do wonders. Example is the ability to control the battle field and basically attack with water source youve created which has surrounded the battlefield. This is strength of suiton, it has nothing to do with impact. Impact jutsu's are rs, kirin, dust release
Again this isnt a vs thread therefore im not sure why you keep on mentioning ma and pa. This is going by techniques and they fall under summonings
A suiton has never heavily injured anyone in this manga while the rasengan has several times. Covering the battlefield with water doesn't really mean anything considering every decent shinobi can walk on water. Is suiton more versatile than the rasengan? Yes, but it definitely isn't stronger.
I'm not confusing anything with a versus thread. I'm only listing everything Minato can do based off logic and what's been shown. And based off that he's above Tobirama.
Of course this is my opinion. Anyway you can believe what you want because as I already know you're a Minato hater no wait I wouldn't say hater but you love to downplay his abilities, so I see no point in continuing this debate and I'm tired so I'm out.
All I will say is that from what the manga has shown and said Minato is clearly stronger than Tobirama. Could that change when we see more of Tobirama? Sure, but for now it should be obvious that's how it stands.
Of course you'll say otherwise because that's how you are
Well said, I have been saying that Hashirama>Minato (even though Minato is my favorite character), but reading what you put, and others thread I think Minato could defeat Hashirama
Blaze release and 4th hokage of the leaf you guys will probably flame me for this but I had to say it by the way I mean no disrespect to either of you it looks like you guys are having a good time. So I thought I would add fuel to the fire since it looks like you guys are going back and forth to each other. How bout we bring something new to this (although not sure if you guys have already battled it out over this ) but which one is the better sensor both can touch the ground and sense several ninja at once but who is better.
A suiton has never heavily injured anyone in this manga while the rasengan has several times. Covering the battlefield with water doesn't really mean anything considering every decent shinobi can walk on water. Is suiton more versatile than the rasengan? Yes, but it definitely isn't stronger.
I'm not confusing anything with a versus thread. I'm only listing everything Minato can do based off logic and what's been shown. And based off that he's above Tobirama.
Of course this is my opinion. Anyway you can believe what you want because as I already know you're a Minato hater no wait I wouldn't say hater but you love to downplay his abilities, so I see no point in continuing this debate and I'm tired so I'm out.
All I will say is that from what the manga has shown and said Minato is clearly stronger than Tobirama. Could that change when we see more of Tobirama? Sure, but for now it should be obvious that's how it stands.
Of course you'll say otherwise because that's how you are
Suiton has never really injured anyone?
If it wasnt for naruto/sasuke, the water prison wouldve been the end of kakashi;
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Similarly;
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Similarly kisame's shark based water techniques.
Mastery of suiton is clearly a bigger advantage than mastery of rasengan
Minato hater?, er the only fictional character that i dont even hate but find annoying is kabuto because of his personality, you pulling out the hate jibe against me is pathetic. Downplay his abilities?, when i believe somebody is wrong or a technique has either been exploited or can be exploited i say so either by a thread or to counter what a fanboy has. I did the same with bringer of darkness which is hashirama's jutsu's and the camouflage technique which is Mu technique.
Its was a good thing somebody had created counters for ftg because i wouldve tore into that technique tbh, not gonna lie
Ive already said that either could take 3rd place. You gave your reasons why minato would and i game my reasons why tobirama would
Suiton has never really injured anyone?
If it wasnt for naruto/sasuke, the water prison wouldve been the end of kakashi;
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Similarly;
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Similarly kisame's shark based water techniques.
Mastery of suiton is clearly a bigger advantage than mastery of rasengan
Minato hater?, er the only fictional character that i dont even hate but find annoying is kabuto because of his personality, you pulling out the hate jibe against me is pathetic. Downplay his abilities?, when i believe somebody is wrong or a technique has either been exploited or can be exploited i say so either by a thread or to counter what a fanboy has. I did the same with bringer of darkness which is hashirama's jutsu's and the camouflage technique which is Mu technique.
Its was a good thing somebody had created counters for ftg because i wouldve tore into that technique tbh, not gonna lie
Ive already said that either could take 3rd place. You gave your reasons why minato would and i game my reasons why tobirama would
Obviously you can't comprehend my posts correctly considering I said heavily injure someone. You said suiton is stronger hence power and I've shown you it's not. It never inflicts bodily harm on someone like the rasengan.
I already said it was more versatile meaning you can do numerous things with it, but it isn't more powerful which is what you're saying. And as I've said suitons are meaningless against a guy like Minato. Would they give him an advantage against other shinobi? Yes, but against Minato they're useless because they'd never hit him.
Yes I know this isn't a versus thread so it don't say it for the 5th time, but we're comparing the two shinobi and I'm giving examples of what would happen if they would fight.
Anyway this is truly my last post in this thread. The manga and author agree with me so I have nothing left to say.
I'll just leave this one last thing.
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"That unrivaled strength. That carefree smiling face." Kishi's own words.
Obviously you can't comprehend my posts correctly considering I said heavily injure someone. You said suiton is stronger hence power and I've shown you it's not. It never inflicts bodily harm on someone like the rasengan.
I already said it was more versatile meaning you can do numerous things with it, but it isn't more powerful which is what you're saying. And as I've said suitons are meaningless against a guy like Minato. Would they give him an advantage against other shinobi? Yes, but against Minato they're useless because they'd never hit him.
Yes I know this isn't a versus thread so it don't say it for the 5th time, but we're comparing the two shinobi and I'm giving examples of what would happen if they would fight.
Anyway this is truly my last post in this thread. The manga and author agree with me so I have nothing left to say.
I'll just leave this one last thing.
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"That unrivaled strength. That carefree smiling face." Kishi's own words.
Certain suiton has physically damaged an opponent but i cannot be asked to do research because this thread actually doesnt interest me that much. You say suiton would be useless against minato?, suiton would actually prove effective. First of all ftg kunai's if spammed would just sink to the bottom of the water. Secondly with the environment being water it would be hard to put an ftg seal on the area which is mostly water.
As for the chapter youve uploaded youve gone low, because thats something that hardcore minato fans like uzumaki16, minator, shisui and some extreme fanboys use. Yet disregard what has been said in that same manga about other characters, for example the hokages.
if you want to play it that way, we can also use the databook, which is stated that hiruzen is strongest hokage, and that is also the author words and its officially announced and better than some random chapter cover,
i know you guys talking about tobirama, but what's the point bringing that lame cover ? are you trying to say minato is unrivaled ?
its funny how you believe that cover while you clearly ignoring the databook which stated hiruzen is the strongest.
if you want to play it that way, we can also use the databook, which is stated that hiruzen is strongest hokage, and that is also the author words and its officially announced and better than some random chapter cover,
i know you guys talking about tobirama, but what's the point bringing that lame cover ? are you trying to say minato is unrivaled ?
its funny how you believe that cover while you clearly ignoring the databook which stated hiruzen is the strongest.
As you stated the argument had nothing to do with Hiruzen. I only brought up the page to prove Minato has much much more hype than Tobirama and his feats are far superior as well. I didn't post it to say Minato's unrivaled because he's clearly not, only to prove that he's superior to Tobirama in hype. Honestly though it shouldn't even need to be proven.
@Blaze Release: Minato can easily summon Bunta or any other frog for that matter to just jump away from the water and change the battlefield. He can also throw his kunai in the air and teleport to mid air if he wanted to. He doesn't have to just throw them in the ground.
This is also my last post in this thread therefore allow me to say this, just like how on the cover on the manga its said that unrivalled strength in relation to minato that greatly contradicts what weve seen from other characters in the manga.
Secondly, if you go to the title of chapter 542 titled strongest tag team, it was in relation to bee and A. Question is are they really the strongest tag team?. No different to the cover of the manga on minato
"That unrivaled strength" Hashirama was not alive when Minato was that it was he is unrivaled. For his time, he was the strongest, but Hashirama is #1 overall done and done.
"That unrivaled strength" Hashirama was not alive when Minato was that it was he is unrivaled. For his time, he was the strongest, but Hashirama is #1 overall done and done.
Minato is 3rd strongest hokage at best. Personally believe he is fourth.
The reason being the hype hashirama and sarutobi has is far greater than minato's therefore those 2 however you look at it are the strongest.
With the recent hype hashirama has received it also impacts tobirama because they had a similar relationship to madara and izuna were they were said to be rivals and actually close in abilities. Obviously the older brother being slightly stronger and older became leaders of their clans, but tobirama wouldve been the second in charge of the senju, just like how izuna was for the uchiha.
Thirdly, all the previous hokages have been in their prime, whilst minato didnt hit his prime and with this were stronger than him. What i would say is that if minato had hit him prime although i stilldont believe he would rival hashirama i believe he would rival sarutobi and certainly surpass tobirama, but since he died before he hit him prime and all the previous hokages actually were at their peak i believe they were all stronger than him therefore;
1. Hashirama
2. Sarutobi
3. Tobirama
4. Minato
5. Tsunade
You base this list off what? If you read my OP i gave manga chapters and corresponding arguments to state why i believe Minato is the strongest Hokage. Instead of countering those points, you have ignored them and come up with what at best can be described as:
biased opinions
speculation
wishful thinking
For starters, is there a rule somewhere at what age exactly a shinobi is supposed to be at their prime? Who is the judge of that? I just can't take anything you say seriously as you have very conveniently made yourself both the appellant and the judge and jury. Therefore, your decisions and conclusions are all biased and not based on anything.
Try defining prime for starters, and try supporting what you say from the manga or else everything you say is really just a pile of crap, and an irritating one at that.
After all the Minato bashing , i've decided to make a list of Minato's feats and statements about him, and give the reasons why in my opinion he was the strongest Hokage.
Minato Namikaze
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To begin with, many people seem to regard Hiruzen as the strongest based off Iruka's statement, calling him the ' strongest of all'. It was also said he mastered all the jutsu of the Leaf. Before i refute these points, let's see what else we know from the manga.
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The 3rd admits he cannot defeat Oro, and Anko says she wishes the 4th was alive. Why..? Because the 3rd was the strongest Hokage..?
In the next page Hiruzen says the 4th is no longer here, we must rely on our own powers. By simple logical inference, this would imply that the 4th exceeded Hiruzen in ability.
This page probably caused confusion:
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Notice that as soon as Iruka makes his statement, the 3rd scolds him by saying 'Iruka, don't use past tense'. Meaning that that statement of Iruka was applicable only in present tense, i.e at that time the 3rd was the strongest among the shinobi.
Then when Hiruzen talks about the importance of having someone precious to protect:
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A close up of the 4th's statue is shown, with the words: just like you used to. It almost seems as if the 3rd was motivated by the 4th. Now, who has ever been motivated by someone weaker than them?
Then when fighting against Oro, despite knowing that Hashirama and Tobirama had just been summoned, he only decided to act at the 3rd coffin:
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He says I must do something about the 3rd one. Why not the other 2? Should'nt he at least have attempted to do something to stop those 2 Edos, especially if as so many people assert, Hashirama>Minato?
But instead it seemed as if the 3rd coffin was all he feared, as if he could take the other 2. This is reinforced when an old Hiruzen manages to blow off Hashirama's leg during the fight. In the end, he uses a jutsu of the 4th to finish off the 2 Hokage Edos and Oro's arm.
Then much later on in the manga:
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The Raikage says there was never a man that could surpass the 4th(mangareader), and that he was the Fastest shinobi alive(implied unequivocally).
Then, finally there were statements and flashbacks about Minato from both Jiraiya and Kakashi. J-man said words to the effect of everyone pales in comparison to him, and Kakashi after seeing Naruto in Bijjuu mode, in which he deflected 6 Tailed Beast Bombs at one time, is reminded of Minato:
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He says se..sensei(possibly implying that Naruto in this mode has matched Minato's speed, i'm not sure if it means base or what).
Please note that Jiraiya was the 3rd's pupil, and yet he had amazing praise for the 4th.
That's all i have time for atm. I'll edit this and add material to it later .
You fanboys give us minato fans a bad name i can clearly see being a fan of mianto that he was indeed a powerful hokage and ninja. with the battle with the edo summons of the 1st and 2nd they where summoned almost immediately with no time for a reaction however the 3rd coffin was taking its time and at this time we had no idea who was behind the coffins the only reason he attempted to stop the third wasn't for fear of the 4th hokage its because its common sense to try and cancel and opposing enemy ninjas jutsu
thats why. And so what if The 3rd used the 4ths jutsu , Orochiomaru used the jutsu the 2nd hokage created . Minato was strong but he wasn't the strongest of kages compared to a man that could create forest darker than the night sky and could control tailed beats who also did battle with madara uchia and the 9 tailed fox ( Which at that point in time the 9 tailed fox had both its Ying and Yang chackra ) and win or at least survive to tell the story.
Then we have the second Hokage who could create vast quantities of water out of thin air who was the master of water style justu and had the ability to create a incredibly powerful jutsu to bring back the dead and make them fight for you , Then we have the third hokage called the god of shinobi in his prime and was also called the professor knowing all the hidden leafs jutsu's AND even tho in his ripe old age still managed to beast both the 1st and 2nd hokage in there edo state and managed to land incredibly powerful blow to orochimaru ripping him of his use of jutsu .
The 4ths feats as mentioned above while great and admirable are not much compared to that of the other 3 hokage who where before him.
And how could you not be sad when you where and old man who was past his prime and the current new young hokage just entering the youth of his prime sacrificed his life to save the village .
The third lost a friend and a fellow Hokage that day how could he not be sad but yet he still lived on in spirit of his former comrade and gave him his total respect and admiration to his Former Friend , Hokage And comrade
if you want to play it that way, we can also use the databook, which is stated that hiruzen is strongest hokage, and that is also the author words and its officially announced and better than some random chapter cover,
i know you guys talking about tobirama, but what's the point bringing that lame cover ? are you trying to say minato is unrivaled ?
its funny how you believe that cover while you clearly ignoring the databook which stated hiruzen is the strongest.
It made me laugh seeing these guys counters..all about what is said in the databook. what they fail to see is that it's not a direct statement from Kishi but rather from a character in the manga...:sy:
Minato was truely a great shinobi. However, as people and characters have said, he was super fast. But then again, so many other people are fast over a short area. Like Guy, Kakashi, Itachi and Guy. However he was unrivaled over long distances.
He was great at ninjutsu and Taijutsu, but so are so many other people.
I like to believe though, that the next generation always increases in skill than the previous, of ofcourse they will overtake him, its just a question of when.
