Hashirama vs Nagato

[Mr.Beastie]

I see some large proportions of bias from both sides.

Let me say this: We haven't got enough information about Hashirama to put him up against Nagato. And we haven't got enough information about healthy Nagato. This is as pointless as debating healthy Itachi vs Shisui. But nevertheless, here I am.

I voted Hashirama and here's why.

1. I would give Hashirama the chakra advantage, seeing how mokuton users are praised for their chakra and amazing endurance ... Uzumaki is a descendant, but Hashirama is the real thing.
2. I would put EMS Madara more dangerous than Nagato, mostly because Madara would have genjutsu and you ned to remember: he had Kurama.
3. Not sure if it was strategy or raw strength, but Hashirama defeated Kurama+Madara...comment on it as much as you like, but that alone is pretty impressive. And to relate this to Nagato, Kurama (could be at only 50% of chakra) detroyed his Chibaku Tensei and almost got out...I think that if Hashirama could battle both the fox and Madara, he would be stronger than that.

But then again, this is only speculation and it's a 60%-40% battle IMO...But I would give the edge to Hashirama.

you give him the chakra advantage simply because mokuton users are praised for their chakra when hashirama was the only one to have mokuton......
Nagato had enough chakra to destroyed a whole village by himself then fight sage mode naruto,six tails bijuu naruto(he fought the six tails bijuu cloak with only one path),and then fought sage mode naruto again and still had enough power to revive everyon in the village.
He also destroyed amegekure(the village hanzo was from).

Also when kurama got out at chibaku tensei he was at 9 tails so kurama was at full power when he got out. Not to mention he had to fight a whol village and sage mode naruto along with his summons before that.

 

[arv993]

ppl also forget that nagato can be caught off guard such as the scenario if he is blind. he can be attacked from anywhere and would/ could be attacked by ninjutsu.

THis happened to madara last chapter even though he can use the preta path he still got hit by oonoki.

second nagato had this situation too

You must be registered for see links

and here

You must be registered for see links

see he could have absorbed it there but was caught off guard and this can happen especially if he is also blind with any tech whether taijutsu, ninjutsu, or even kenjutsu

 

[Turson]

1. I would give Hashirama the chakra advantage, seeing how mokuton users are praised for their chakra and amazing endurance ... Uzumaki is a descendant, but Hashirama is the real thing.

I wouldnt say that Hashirama had more chakra than Nagato. Nagato even in terrible state had sh*tload of chakra, and we are talking about healthy one in this thread.

2. I would put EMS Madara more dangerous than Nagato, mostly because Madara would have genjutsu and you ned to remember: he had Kurama.

Yep, but Mokuton can supress Kuramas chakra, it cant do the same with Rinnegan powers. Nagato is completely different opponent.

 

[maiavarepz]

I see some large proportions of bias from both sides.

Let me say this: We haven't got enough information about Hashirama to put him up against Nagato. And we haven't got enough information about healthy Nagato. This is as pointless as debating healthy Itachi vs Shisui. But nevertheless, here I am.

I voted Hashirama and here's why.

1. I would give Hashirama the chakra advantage, seeing how mokuton users are praised for their chakra and amazing endurance ... Uzumaki is a descendant, but Hashirama is the real thing.
2. I would put EMS Madara more dangerous than Nagato, mostly because Madara would have genjutsu and you ned to remember: he had Kurama.
3. Not sure if it was strategy or raw strength, but Hashirama defeated Kurama+Madara...comment on it as much as you like, but that alone is pretty impressive. And to relate this to Nagato, Kurama (could be at only 50% of chakra) detroyed his Chibaku Tensei and almost got out...I think that if Hashirama could battle both the fox and Madara, he would be stronger than that.

But then again, this is only speculation and it's a 60%-40% battle IMO...But I would give the edge to Hashirama.

1. healthy nagato is basically a weaker form of the sage of the six paths, due to his inexperience with the power but sowed us basically on a smaller scale what we saw edo madara do.

 

[arv993]

But you can't use any of those techs in your thoughts because as of now they don't exist...............................................

yea i wasnt unless you can read my mind lol. i was just stating the high possibility that we have not seen eveything he has to offer after seeing all the hype he gets from kabuto.

ON a side note kabuto knows the powers of nagato and yet made a clear statement. unless the dude hates nagato i dont see why hashi is not stronger or have the need to lie.

 

[Ryuu..]

ppl also forget that nagato can be caught off guard such as the scenario if he is blind. he can be attacked from anywhere and would/ could be attacked by ninjutsu.

THis happened to madara last chapter even though he can use the preta path he still got hit by oonoki.

second nagato had this situation too

You must be registered for see links

and here

You must be registered for see links

see he could have absorbed it there but was caught off guard and this can happen if he is also blind with any tech taijutsu, ninjutsu, or even kenjutsu

He was caught off guard because they were not 1 vs 1 battles. Itachi just randomly jumped in.

 

[Turson]

He was caught off guard because they were not 1 vs 1 battles. Itachi just randomly jumped in.

True, Nagato was absorbed by finishing off Naruto and Bee.

 

[arv993]

He was caught off guard because they were not 1 vs 1 battles. Itachi just randomly jumped in.

yes that is obvious but if he is blind he can be attacked from any direction which is the same as getting caught off guard. and we have seen that he can be hit with techs when his vision is affected like when itachi used totsuka he did not know of it and got hit when he could have used shinra tensei to push it off.

You must be registered for see links

 

[Ryuu..]

yes that is obvious but if he is blind he can be attacked from any direction which is the same as getting caught off guard. and we have seen that he can be hit with techs when his vision is affected like when itachi used totsuka he did not know of it and got hit when he could have used shinra tensei to push it off.

Fair enough, but then Hashirama has no one hit KO techs like the sword of Totsuka

 

[warlee]

Nagato>hashirama. What hashirama has or has only shown is wood release which can be destroyed by either asura path or deva path and when nagato bring out chibaku tensei or chou shinra tensei or even gedo there is nothin hashirama can do. You can argue as you like or even vote for him because of last chapter hype but nagato has full counter to hashirama's strongest techs while hashirama has no counter to nagato's strongest techs

 

[Turson]

yes that is obvious but if he is blind he can be attacked from any direction which is the same as getting caught off guard.

He wont even be blind if he will have his summons with him?
BTW. Lets assume that Nagato will summon his bird and take aerial advantage like Deidara tends to do it. That would be great complication for Hashirama.

 

[pensilol]

ppl also forget that nagato can be caught off guard such as the scenario if he is blind. he can be attacked from anywhere and would/ could be attacked by ninjutsu.

THis happened to madara last chapter even though he can use the preta path he still got hit by oonoki.

second nagato had this situation too

You must be registered for see links

and here

You must be registered for see links

see he could have absorbed it there but was caught off guard and this can happen especially if he is also blind with any tech whether taijutsu, ninjutsu, or even kenjutsu

:flaw:

In the first pic we clearly see that Nagato is not moving on his own. (He says it several times while attacking naruto)

Kabuto controls him, so if he dont give the command to move, Nagato would not move.
So this is not a proof.

And of course every one can be cuaght off guard, but dont forget that Nagato only had 2 summons and both of then could not move, imagine if there are 20+ dogs and some birds around, threre are no blind spots then.


The Bringer of Darkness can only used in short to mid range which can be very dangerous for Hashirama. And like every other Genjutsu it ends if the user is disturbed.
Nagato wont see anything, (his minions perhaps can see though) but what works better to disturb someone then a big and strong Shinra Tensei ?

 

[arv993]

Fair enough, but then Hashirama has no one hit KO techs like the sword of Totsuka

yea he does he can just blow throuh his body with a simple wood jutsu which on a normal circumstance would not work but in this case if he is caught of guard yea it can kill him especially since its fast and powerful as we have seen. Or use those swords he has with him or use taijutsu. I would have said poiso but thats not one shot. Honestly delivering a killing blow is not terribly hard for high level ninjas

 

[warlee]

Itachi was able to caught nagato offgaurd after he had blind the summon nagato use as shared vision. W/ summon u can't caught nagato ofguard

 

[arv993]

:flaw:

In the first pic we clearly see that Nagato is not moving on his own. (He says it several times while attacking naruto)

Kabuto controls him, so if he dont give the command to move, Nagato would not move.
This is not a proof.

And of course every one can be cuaght off guard, but dont forget that Nagato only had 2 summons and both of then could not move, imagine if there are 20+ dogs and some birds around, threre are no blind spots then.


And the Bringer of Darkness can only used in short to mid range which can be very dangerous for Hashirama. And like every other Genjutsu it end if the user is disturbed.
Nagato wont see anything, (his minions perhaps can see though) but what works better to disturb someone then ab big and strong Shinra Tensei ?

1.mid range is plenty enough space
2. mokuton can restrain animals easily seeing how he can do tailed beasts and if they are restrained they are useless and who is to say that bringer of darkness only works on nagato especially seeing how wide his jutsu is honestly his summons wont help him much after seeing even ninetails was captured/supressed during his fight with madara
3. He is slow cannot dodge very many attacks unless you have speed feats from nagato there was a reason kabuto used the animals excessively
4. And if he uses his big shinra tensei one it kills his animals in range and hashi can defend against it and seeing how his mobility is restrained nothing much would change

 

[arv993]

He wont even be blind if he will have his summons with him?
BTW. Lets assume that Nagato will summon his bird and take aerial advantage like Deidara tends to do it. That would be great complication for Hashirama.

and hashi would just allow that he restrained tailed beats who are much more powerful than nagato's summons who can easily be stopped by mokuton especially seeing how large they are. he is not only limited to the ground. And we dont even kno if that tech works only on one person or the whole area seeing how its not dojutsu which most likely means he might get the summons in it too. BUt reagrdless he can just restrain them and what would they see lol a forest with trees and he can easily limit their views and that would allow hashi to make counter attacks especially if its his kind of terrain.

You must be registered for see links

idk how useful seeing through that is

And not to mention the fact that he can restrain them with ease and assuming that the genjutsu wont work on the summons

 

[Turson]

2. mokuton can restrain animals easily seeing how he can do tailed beasts and if they are restrained they are useless and who is to say that bringer of darkness only works on nagato especially seeing how wide his jutsu is honestly his summons wont help him much after seeing even ninetails was captured/supressed during his fight with madara

Lets assume that Nagato will summon his bird and take aerial advantage like Deidara tends to do it. That would be great complication for Hashirama but not for Nagato since the time in which the gravitation force travells to target is almost non existent.

and hashi would just allow that

Amd why not? Nagato can protect summons with ST and make it in mid air. And in mid air the threath of Mokuton will be very limited.

 

[Shinozgr8]

...whyyyyy is this even a debate??? hashirama all DAY! pollen...poof lol! jk but yeah hashirama

 

[warlee]

Honestly basho tein would be hashirama's biggest problem none was able to perform jutsu while it was in process

 

[arv993]

Lets assume that Nagato will summon his bird and take aerial advantage like Deidara tends to do it. That would be great complication for Hashirama but not for Nagato since the time in which the gravitation force travells to target is almost non existent.

Amd why not? Nagato can protect summons with ST and make it in mid air. And in mid air the threath of Mokuton will be very limited.

what not all his animals can fly they will be on the ground and hashi can attack mid air he doesnt have to be on the ground lol. he can capture the bird from standing on top of his forest.