Clearing up the confusion on who the strongest Hokage is......
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edgarmagician
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The control of Edo tense is in the mind not how they fight or what they use to fight with. The Edos fight freely with all their techniques. People keep saying that oro was controlling Hashirama and Tobirama in their fight with Hiruzen. All oro was controlling was their minds so they don't turn against him. Just like Madara if fighting, controlling his jutsus, the 1st and 2nd were doing the same thing against Sarutobi.
Now, do you think that someone is going to use all their jutsus all at once to fight at full power?, that's ignorant. Madara is fighting full power, he just casts a jutsu at a time. Because he hasn't used his other techniques it doesn't mean he's not fighting full power.
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'You could argue, if you wanted, Hashirama > Hiruzen due to feats etc, but just understand what 'knowing all of the jutsu available in konoha actually means'..............However, I admit this top position is easily interchangeable, and it's a VERY even argument when trying to decide who's stronger out of Hiruzen and Hashirama.'
I posted this in the original post.
Madara Hokage
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Doesn't make a difference. Neither Hashirama or Tobirama used any of their best jutsu hence Hiruzen beat two extremely nerfed kages.
Madara isn't using any of his best jutsu, he's simply testing out his abilities.
For one who are you to tell somebody where they can and can't debate? Secondly I'm not being biased towards anyone. The fact is Hiruzen couldn't beat the edos without reaper death seal and he even says it. It's manga fact.
I know Minato's not the strongest hokage and I don't even list him as the strongest. My list is even 2 pages back.
And? Hiruzen was age 69, do you know how much of a disadvantage that is for a shinobi, old age..................he was practically a 'nerfed kage', as you put it........
You can't even use the Oonoki vs Madara example, because that is a 5 vs 1.
By using basic logic, and I mean pre-school logic, one can quite easily conclude that FTG and Rasengan would be inefficient against against a Hiruzen who:
-Knows all jutsu in Konoha
-Faster than old man Hiruzen
-Stronger than Old man Hiruzen
A Hiruzen who, by two people, has been said to be the strongest Kage.
A minato who, by 0 people, has been said to be stronger than Hiruzen Prime.
As you said, Manga words > anything you say
What have the other kages done? Nothing. Onoki's been the only to injure him and actually do anything. He stopped a freaking meteor and he's easily older than Hiruzen. Can Hiruzen do that? Hell no. He destroyed susanoo and Madara's entire forest with his dust release. Can Hiruzen do that? Hell no.
Onoki's easily older than Hiruzen and if you put him in the same position he performs even better.
Hiruzen beat 2 extremely nerfed kages that were treated him like a mere play thing.
I dunno why are so being so adamant about PRIME SARUTOBI knowing RDS??which he clearly didn't...let alone able to perform.
The old Hiruzen however "the professor" did know about it.
Also there's big difference between "knowing" and "able to perform"
the professor may know the following jutsus but he can't perform them
EG
1. Tsunade's Cell Regeneration
2. FTG
3. Rasengan
4. Chidori
5. Reanimation
And Many More.
Really? Hiruzen doesn't know anywhere close to all the jutsu in Konoha because for one that's literally impossible. That means he knows amaterasu, tsukuyomi, susanoo, byakugan, FTG, s/t barrier, and etc. It's impossible to know all the jutsu in Konoha so just get that out of your argument.
Faster means nothing when you're facing the fastest shinobi to ever live.
Strength means nothing either if you can't hit your target.
Prime Hiruzen is nothing but hype so you can't say he would beat Minato
If you want to use hype then I can do the same thing. Minato was said to be an unparalleled shinobi by Jiraiya and unsurpassable by A. See how that works?
Come up with a better argument.
blazekev90
Active member
srry, but you're just as unfit to debate this matter as well if that's the case.
Your argument is invalid, it's strong and has support, I admit that, but it is invalid. Kabuto himself said it, "Hashirama's strength is a fairy tale people agree that shinobi like that with his power don't exist anymore, just like the Sage of Six Paths." Even though that applies consequently to the death of Hiruzen, I still don't think that he could have in any case, been able to kill Hashirama, that flower world, his stamina, his chakra, his life force, would either make him just basically stronger, or in a death match would allow him to outlast Hiruzen, even in his prime, completely.
I really thought that you were someone with brains and no bias, but i was wrong.
You list Prime Hiruzen Above all else or say that Hashi has an edge,this also implys that Hiruzen > EMS Madara and countless others, but the fact is Prime Hiruzen can't even beat MS Itachi.
That's it for me I am not going to post here again.
Which is why I stated I wasn't sure between Prime Hiruzen and hashirama; infact look at what I posted a while back:
If you don't believe me, i'm the 4th comment:
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spike00spiegel
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You are so mad about this "knowing all of the jutsu available in konoha shit" That you to simple minded to understand some basic things.
First of all you need chackra, what's the use of knowing 1000 if you can only do lets 50 in a battle.
Second there is an opportunity cost to all jutsu, meaning that if do one jutsu you can't do another in the same time. Let's say that you know the kage bunshin jutsu and mud clone jutsu, and someone attacks you you can do any, or even that quick replace jutsu, you just used one, is suck a big deal knowing all 3? Means nothing.
Is much better to know 10 very strong justus or just one, like FTG than knowing 10000 mediocre jutsu.
Third grow up and live the dragon ball logic, things really don't go after this logic.
There is much more but I don't have time.
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Haters gonna hate,they may underrate,but.....Minato was kinda real strong,he was dead at the age of 22.I'm saying hashi>minato (maybe),but if minato was still alive he would be at his strongest state,and ****ed the whole enemy world in a blink.Understand??? However,i really dont care who agree with me.U CONTINUE YOUR FLAME WAR.
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