Clearing up the confusion on who the strongest Hokage is......

[Baka Sennin]

I stopped reading there.

power does not equate strength. Kisame,Kakuzu and Deidara are the most powerful akatsuki, but I wouldn't bank on them killing Sasori or Itachi. Tsunade is more powerful than minato, do you also think she should be above him?

Minato's technique gives him an unbelievable edge over others much like Itachi's genjutsu does. So even if they rank pretty low on the power scale, they're very high on the strength scale.

And it's clear that you don't like Minato, and that's fine. But get off your high horse because your opinion is in no way fact, it's just an opinion. And it's a stupid one too.

 

[Minator93]

Please explain. Yes, I know that the first and second's full power was not shown during the battle. But a 69 year old man still defeated two of the strongest kages, seeing that he couldn't even hurt or kill them.

And yes, I know Orochimaru was controlling them, but its still pretty damn amazing that Hiruzen defeated two zombie-kages.

Edo Tensei Jutsu used by Oro was Incomplete....the one Used by Kabuto is...er... well closer to perfect.

The Edo Senju brothers couldn't think for themselves and were controlled by Oro's talisman...the main reason they couldn't fight with their full potential or use their own minds....and that's why they lost to Sarutobi...erm technically tied with Sarutobi.

Even the Nagato that Itachi sealed didn't have a mind of his own or the 3rd Raikage that Naruto clone beat.

They lost because Kabuto was controlling their moves.

But Edo Madara however has a mind of his own...and we know how that turned out to be.

 

[TobisPawn]

You can put any top tier shinobi against 2 extremely nerfed kages and they would win. For part 1 it was impressive, but compared to part 2 it looks extremely pathetic.

True, but that means that a 69 year old Hiruzen is able to compete with top tier shinobis. Hiruzen didn't show a lot of his powers/jutsus in that battle either.

I guess no one can really make an assumption of the strongest hokage until we see all of their powers at their best...

Edo Tensei Jutsu used by Oro was Incomplete....the one Used by Kabuto is...er... well closer to perfect.

The Edo Senju brothers couldn't think for themselves and were controlled by Oro's talisman...the main reason they couldn't fight with their full potential or use their own minds....and that's why they lost to Sarutobi...erm technically tied with Sarutobi.

Even the Nagato that Itachi sealed didn't have a mind of his own or the 3rd Raikage that Naruto clone beat.

They lost because Kabuto was controlling their moves.

But Edo Madara however has a mind of his own...and we know how that turned out to be.

They did have a mind of their own, as they were constantly apologizing to Hiruzen for what they were being forced to do. And I wouldn't say tied, as if Hiruzen didn't also aim to seal Orochimaru, he technically beat Hashi and Tobi.




But as I said before, no one can really make an assumption on the strongest Hokage because we've barely seen anything.

 

[Ryuu..]

power does not equate strength. Kisame,Kakuzu and Deidara are the most powerful akatsuki, but I wouldn't bank on them killing Sasori or Itachi. Tsunade is more powerful than minato, do you also think she should be above him?

Minato's technique gives him an unbelievable edge over others much like Itachi's genjutsu does. So even if they rank pretty low on the power scale, they're very high on the strength scale.

And it's clear that you don't like Minato, and that's fine. But get off your high horse because your opinion is in no way fact, it's just an opinion. And it's a stupid one too.

LOL Minato is my second favourite character! Check my page! Notice how 'Flying Thunder God' is underneath my User name also.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to use my personal favourites/preferences to come up with BS decisions. How can you argue that Hashirama < Minato? How, just how?

 

[Ryuu..]

Edo Tensei Jutsu used by Oro was Incomplete....the one Used by Kabuto is...er... well closer to perfect.

The Edo Senju brothers couldn't think for themselves and were controlled by Oro's talisman...the main reason they couldn't fight with their full potential or use their own minds....and that's why they lost to Sarutobi...erm technically tied with Sarutobi.

Even the Nagato that Itachi sealed didn't have a mind of his own or the 3rd Raikage that Naruto clone beat.

They lost because Kabuto was controlling their moves.

But Edo Madara however has a mind of his own...and we know how that turned out to be.

Orochimaru perfected it:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[edgarmagician]

Manga words are better than anything you say. Orochimaru was using Hashirama and Tobirama to toy with Hiruzen. The manga even says so get the delusional thoughts of Hiruzen defeating a fully powered Hashirama and Tobirama out of your head.

Did Hashirama have his secret scroll or use his more powerful wood style jutsu one of which being what Madara just used last chapter? Did Tobirama use his s/t jutsu? No. Just stop posting because you're making yourself look like a fool.

So let me ask you this, is Kabuto currently controlling Madara? The answer is yes, he is, just like Orochimaru was controlling Hashirama and tobirama. Is he showing his full powers, probably is because Madara is fighting 5 keges. The Edo controls the souls minds, not what they actually do in battle. The battle the edos show what they got.

 

[-Vegeta-]

True, but that means that a 69 year old Hiruzen is able to compete with top tier shinobis. Hiruzen didn't show a lot of his powers/jutsus in that battle either.

I guess no one can really make an assumption of the strongest hokage until we see all of their powers at their best...

He's a kage so one would think. Onoki's older than him and his performances have been a lot better than Hiruzen's.

So let me ask you this, is Kabuto currently controlling Madara? The answer is yes, he is, just like Orochimaru was controlling Hashirama and tobirama. Is he showing his full powers, probably is because Madara is fighting 5 keges. The Edo controls the souls minds, not what they actually do in battle. The battle the edos show what they got.

*Sigh* you don't get it. Madara's not showing anywhere near his full powers. All he's shown is mokuton, susanoo, and katon jutsu. He hasn't even used the rinnegan jutsu or his other ems jutsu. Kabuto isn't controlling Madara right now, he's controlling Mu. Madara's acting of his own accord right now.

 

[edgarmagician]

Orochimaru perfected it:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Great post. Specially the part that says the the Edo can use all their original techniques. Thanks

 

[TobisPawn]

He's a kage so one would think. Onoki's older than him and his performances have been a lot better than Hiruzen's.

Not gonna lie there, Onoki has shown much more than Hiruzen.
And still, even if the kages weren't at their full potential, a 69 year old man beat them and nearly sealed Orochimaru along with him.

 

[Ryuu..]

He's a kage so one would think. Onoki's older than him and his performances have been a lot better than Hiruzen's.

edgarmagician;5651856]So let me ask you this, is Kabuto currently controlling Madara? The answer is yes, he is, just like Orochimaru was controlling Hashirama and tobirama. Is he showing his full powers, probably is because Madara is fighting 5 keges. The Edo controls the souls minds, not what they actually do in battle. The battle the edos show what they got.

*Sigh* you don't get it. Madara's not showing anywhere near his full powers. All he's shown is mokuton, susanoo, and katon jutsu. He hasn't even used the rinnegan jutsu or his other ems jutsu. Kabuto isn't controlling Madara right now, he's controlling Mu. Madara's acting of his own accord right now.

Oonoki's been fighting Madara with 4 other Kage's.

 

[Minator93]

But that doesn't mean I'm going to use my personal favourites/preferences to come up with BS decisions.

And yet you say Prime hiruzen > Minato. Also that Old Hiruzen took care of Senju brothers...which I've explained earlier on that how it really went.

And its pretty amusing that how you completely ignored my post about RDS.

 

[-Vegeta-]

*Sigh* you don't get it. Madara's not showing anywhere near his full powers. All he's shown is mokuton, susanoo, and katon jutsu. He hasn't even used the rinnegan jutsu or his other ems jutsu. Kabuto isn't controlling Madara right now, he's controlling Mu. Madara's acting of his own accord right now.

Oonoki's been fighting Madara with 4 other Kage's.[/QUOTE]

Yet Onoki's been the only one to actually do something. He stopped helped neutralize Madara's meteor and he completely destroyed the entire forest Madara made.

Every battle Onoki's had has been far and away more impressive than what Hiruzen did.

 

[-Vegeta-]

Not gonna lie there, Onoki has shown much more than Hiruzen.
And still, even if the kages weren't at their full potential, a 69 year old man beat them and nearly sealed Orochimaru along with him.

Put Onoki in Hiruzen's place and he performs even better albeit he wouldn't be able to seal them because he doesn't have a sealing jutsu he would still perform better. And as I said he's older than Hiruzen with a severe back issue.

On second thought he might be able to seal them considering the entire alliance has those sealing tags.

 

[Baka Sennin]

LOL Minato is my second favourite character! Check my page!

But that doesn't mean I'm going to use my personal favourites/preferences to come up with BS decisions. How can you argue that Hashirama < Minato? How, just how?

a. ems madara that was shown to us was great, but not invincible. a depleted gaara and a naruto clone forced him to progress to the rinnegan pretty quickly. Hashirama was at a slightly higher level, if he and madara clashed several times and both survived. obviously madara had 2 more ems techniques too. And hashirama's justu shown through Madara, have all been rebutted so far, by Naruto and Oonoki. and kabuto suggests that madara's mokuton is on hashirama's level.

b Minato has shown great feats against kage level shinobi and dispatched them quickly and efficiently every time. against tobi it took 3 attacks, against A and B even less. Hashirama is obviously more powerful than Minato, but he can't do that. And before you bring up the irrelevant fact that Hashirama handled the kyuubi better, that's only because he has a natural aptitude. Yamato handled the 4-tailed naruto better than oro did, doesn't mean squat when you compare their strength.

c. as I said 2 times now, Minato's FTG gives him a big edge. Hashirama doesn't have a direct counter against that, Minato does against Mokuton. And the same applies to most ninja, not many can counter FTG, whereas Mokuton, if a stronger technique overall is more avoidable. Minato's way of fighting just makes him harder to beat.

 

[Ryuu..]

And yet you say Prime hiruzen > Minato. Also that Old Hiruzen took care of Senju brothers...which I've explained earlier on that how it really went.

And its pretty amusing that how you completely ignored my post about RDS.

At this point the post about RDS is pointless, it has no relevance in a Hiruzen vs Minato discussion.

WTF are you talking about? The point is I like Minato but I'm not going to be on his d*ck and say:

FTG can't be countered! Minato is the strongest! FTG and Rasengan > All jutsu in Konoha.

What you just posted makes absolutely no sense.

 

[TobisPawn]

And yet you say Prime hiruzen > Minato. Also that Old Hiruzen took care of Senju brothers...which I've explained earlier on that how it really went.

And its pretty amusing that how you completely ignored my post about RDS.

Ok, Prime Hiruzen is stronger than Minato for sure.


1. Prime Hiruzen/Hashirama
2. Hashirama/Prime Hiruzen
3. Tobirama/Minato
4. Minato/Tobirama
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
100000. Tsunade!

 

[blazekev90]

hashirama
hiruzen
minato/tobirama
tsunade

Saying hiruzen held his own against Oro and the Hokages is wrong. Throughout that fight he was a beating bag, and Oro was not controlling them correctly. Oro was simply toying with hiruzen and he used the Hokages to do actually that. This didnt show the Hokages pontental at ALL, justa simple demonstration of their abilites.

Also minato/tobirama are basically the same guy, Kish knew he messed up by getting rid of such as BA (tobirama) w/o any good display, so he basically re-created him with Minato, a weaker version at that. tobirama had all the feats to be THE MAN of the series, but he was irrelevent to the storyline, Minato needed to be BA as Naruto's dad, so Kish noob's all of us by thinking Minato was some original character, but he's not. minato=tobirama

hashirama is the strongest, no hype is needed to come to that conclusion. All one needs to do is consider what has been displayed (seriously) by Madara and Yamato (who only has half his pwoer). hashirama's power is exactly that of a fairly tale and only a fool would think otherwise.

 

[Minator93]

At this point the post about RDS is pointless, it has no relevance in a Hiruzen vs Minato discussion.

WTF are you talking about? The point is I like Minato but I'm not going to be on his d*ck and say:

FTG can't be countered! Minato is the strongest! FTG and Rasengan > All jutsu in Konoha.

What you just posted makes absolutely no sense.

WTF are YOU talking about??I dunno who posted that SHIT but it wasn't me....don't go off topic

1.You said that Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama because 69 yr old took care of Edo Senju duo.

2. Then I argued by saying that Old Hiruzen could pull it off only because of RDS...which is Minato's Jutsu.

3. Now My question is HOW Prime Hiruzen who clearly didn't know RDS can beat EDO SENJUS?

 

[Ryuu..]

a. ems madara that was shown to us was great, but not invincible. a depleted gaara and a naruto clone forced him to progress to the rinnegan pretty quickly. Hashirama was at a slightly higher level, if he and madara clashed several times and both survived. obviously madara had 2 more ems techniques too. And hashirama's justu shown through Madara, have all been rebutted so far, by Naruto and Oonoki. and kabuto suggests that madara's mokuton is on hashirama's level.

b Minato has shown great feats against kage level shinobi and dispatched them quickly and efficiently every time. against tobi it took 3 attacks, against A and B even less. Hashirama is obviously more powerful than Minato, but he can't do that. And before you bring up the irrelevant fact that Hashirama handled the kyuubi better, that's only because he has a natural aptitude. Yamato handled the 4-tailed naruto better than oro did, doesn't mean squat when you compare their strength.

c. as I said 2 times now, Minato's FTG gives him a big edge. Hashirama doesn't have a direct counter against that, Minato does against Mokuton. And the same applies to most ninja, not many can counter FTG, whereas Mokuton, if a stronger technique overall is more avoidable. Minato's way of fighting just makes him harder to beat.

Aha so it took:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

To stop EMS Madara. Hashirama defeated a shinobi of this level by himself, who also had Kyuubi. Minato couldn't kill Tobi, merely injuring him. Tobi also had only a 3 tomoe sharingan. How can you now compare Hashirama to Minato?

FTG is not an uncounterable jutsu. You're speculating that Hashirama doesn't have a counter to a flying Kunai. Do you know every single jutsu Hashirama has? At least I offered a jutsu from Hiruzen that could counter FTG v2.

I think everyone herer will accept Hashirama > Minato, you seem to be the only one.............

 

[-Vegeta-]

WTF are YOU talking about??don't go off topic

1.You said that Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama because 69 yr old took care of Edo Senju duo.

2. Then I argued by saying that Old Hiruzen could pull it off only because of RDS...which is Minato's Jutsu.

3. Now My question is HOW Prime Hiruzen who clearly didn't know RDS can beat EDO SENJUS?

He can't and even said as much.

You must be registered for see images

Aha so it took:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

To stop EMS Madara. Hashirama defeated a shinobi of this level by himself, who also had Kyuubi. Minato couldn't kill Tobi, merely injuring him. Tobi also had only a 3 tomoe sharingan. How can you now compare Hashirama to Minato?

FTG is not an uncounterable jutsu. You're speculating that Hashirama doesn't have a counter to a flying Kunai. Do you know every single jutsu Hashirama has? At least I offered a jutsu from Hiruzen that could counter FTG v2.

I think everyone herer will accept Hashirama > Minato, you seem to be the only one.............

That's a horrible example. Minato had Tobi tagged and could've killed him anytime he wished, but had to worry about the safety of his village and people so he went to stop the kyuubi. Plus Tobi's not exactly the easiest person to kill in case you haven't noticed by now.