[Theory] Tobi: Thread for all Tobi theories and related discussions .

Who do you think Tobi is:

  • Jubbi

    Votes: 21 3.0%
  • Sage of Six Paths

    Votes: 10 1.4%
  • Elder son of Sage of Sixth Path

    Votes: 65 9.3%
  • Izuna uchiha

    Votes: 105 15.0%
  • Kagami uchiha

    Votes: 71 10.1%
  • Obito Uchiha

    Votes: 77 11.0%
  • Fugaku Uchiha

    Votes: 16 2.3%
  • Zetsu

    Votes: 16 2.3%
  • Madara's split personality (created before original body died.)

    Votes: 66 9.4%
  • A copycat whose rolemodel is Madara.

    Votes: 13 1.9%
  • Tobirama

    Votes: 15 2.1%
  • An unknown Uchiha

    Votes: 23 3.3%
  • Real Madara in Zetsu body

    Votes: 28 4.0%
  • Some one from Madara's time ( can't decide though)

    Votes: 7 1.0%
  • Danzou

    Votes: 8 1.1%
  • Setsuna Uchiha

    Votes: 7 1.0%
  • Shisui

    Votes: 14 2.0%
  • An Uzumaki

    Votes: 15 2.1%
  • Madara's Son

    Votes: 23 3.3%
  • A woman

    Votes: 21 3.0%
  • Obito's father

    Votes: 19 2.7%
  • Someone Other than these

    Votes: 24 3.4%
  • First Edo tensie

    Votes: 7 1.0%
  • An alien ( Superman/ HeMan/whatnot)

    Votes: 7 1.0%
  • I am the best. I have no theory. ( Not anymore at least.)

    Votes: 22 3.1%

  • Total voters
    700
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shadman

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

Not to mention we saw shisui dead in the water but we all knew that didn't happen
yh, shusui wanted the kyubbi so he can destroy konoha after all this time shisui wanted 2 protect konha and gave his eyes 2 itachi 2 protect his village nd wanted peace,,, yh shisui is tobi (sarcasm)
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

Tobi is Madara's brother
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Now i will explain why i said it is going to be Izuna,pay close attention

Now we will start from madara to harashima,
Madara who was half blind was said to have taken izuna's MS in order to regain his sight,but it was never said that madara took both eyes,now i know what u will say..that u need both eyes to gain back ur sight but lets think about it..Izuna was said to be an equal to madara so why would he give his eyes to madara in order to fight harashima,even he could have fought the 1st & maybe even won..after all Izuna's MS was different than madara & could have given him an advantage over the 1 unless infact that izuna's MS abilities did not have a more advantage than madara's MS ability..which would explain why an equal uchiha in power & skills would give his eyes to another equal uchiha(madara)
Now lets go back to what Tobi
Tobi in his explanation to sasuke told us that Izuna which he was calming to be,his brother at that time gave him "madara" which he calmed to be his eyes In order for Him to fight harashima..
Now pause,let's think about this,if madara was given the EMS by Izuna in order to fight harashima for the sit of hokage then how did Izuna die in war when at the time he gave his eyes to madara the war was already over...
But wait it might have been during their last battle which lead to peace that Izuna died but then again madara would have not accepted peace becoz according to tobi it was the way the uchiha said that madara took his brother eyes in order to gain power & also how is brother sacrifice meant nothing in the uchiha's eyes that made him hate the leaf & uchihas,,so it is highly unlikely that madara would have agree to make peace with the senju when Izuna his brother was dead
What am i trying to say here that Izuna did not die in the war,Now while a lot of u will say that it has been said that Izuna died at war let me remind u that things that are said and not shown mostly turn out not to be what was saidU_U
Now this doesn't explain a lot of why tobi is doing what he is doing & how he knows much so i would explain
Izuna & madara were said & shown to have been the first to awaken the MS NOTE that they were the first & not the only ones,yet it was said that they were few that got these power(MS) but it wasn't said that madara & Izuna were the only one with MS,
now u might say why can't it be that d brothers were the only ones that had the MS why? becoz if it was only madara who had the EMS & everyone else had normal sharingan then HE alone would have killed all the uchiha's with ease in a night like itachi & tobi but he didn't, why would a god at that time listen to some old weak uchiha's when they should be worshiping his EMS

Only 2 reason can be given,either they were up to 7 uchihas which he knew that together they could kill him or He had sometin someone he cared about.
Now i doubt that 20 uchiha's can take madara even with MS,he will only use a meteorite to kill everyone but if u were to look at it that madara had someone he cared of & that person was not powerful enough to fight for himself or herself,so he had to agree to the uchihas then he later left the village to get this person he cared about out of harms way,Now the only person that madara even cared about was his brother & as far as we know he never had a wife.
This would explain why he 1st left the village then before fightin harashima
Now to why tobi in this case Izuna is doing all this in the present,Izuna was madara's best friend,brother( & if i may add lover:D )since madara did not die at the end of the battle it is only Natural that he would go to a place where he could try & treat his wounds,
Now u might say even if izuna was there how would a blind person take care of a dying Madara but what if he was not totally blind,madara izuna & kakashi are the only Ninjas that have unlocked their MS without killing their close friends,
Now i will tell u that Izuna had one eye how & why ?
If Izuna gives an eye to Madara that would make him able to see with one eye..Madara with an eye & Izuna would be able to kill another MS user with ease ,now since madara can see with one eye implanting another MS would make him able to see But if thats the case why did Izuna not take the other eye.2 reason can be given,either it was damaged or it would make the uchihas suspect them 0_o
If tobi is Izuna it would explain how he know's a lot of history of the leaf & how madara knows him & trust in him to bring him back to life

You might ask how does tobi's eyes look like a normal shiringan but is using a justu that a normal sharigan can't use if he is Izuna ???
I can think of 2 reasons,either he implanted shiringan in his eyes but he still retain his original MS ability or he is infact using a space time ninjustu that is not an MS ability but a justu similar to Minato's ftd but can be manipulated with the shiringan instead of a seal..
Also to how Nagato was known by madara,can be explained if tobi is izuna,it would mean that madara told him some secrets of the rinnegan before dieing which izuna would have used on Nagato's mum & dad inorder to give bath to a rinnengan user which is Nagato then He Izuna would have used a justu on Madara so that they could be communicating even beyond death,so madara would have known all of what was going on, if tobi was communication with him beyond death with a justu then Madara would know that nagato was the rinnegan user & that he was going to be the person that would be used to bring him back to life
1Ox for reading
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

just few questions.

1. only peoples who died before a certain interval of times can be revived. that's why all of konoha peoples were revived while jiraiya couldnt been revived.

2.i think madara's plan was also flawed and kishi trolled on us beacuse nagato was already powerful enough and if nagato and tobi wanted then they could had easily revived madara but it never happend. hence i think nagato couldnt revived madara beacuse the time span was too long but what proves madara actually wanted to be revived from nagato???

3.if 9 tail fox recognized tobi as izuna then why didnt he simply say izuna summoned me instead of saying that masked man. hence izuna and tobi are not relevant in 9 tails view angle.

4.izuna was formally declared dead

5.but my main question is how did izuna learned space time ninjutsu ???? i dont think he invented his own space time ninjutsu all of a sudden after death of madara. it dnt make sense.

6.final question why is izuna still so fresh,powerful,active bcoz he should had been very old,fragile, lacking chakra. just look at 3rd hokage who was so weak incomparison to his primes.

i got a lot of quiries but i honest think izuna is not tobi.
 

24 12 11 to troll

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

reasons why tobi has to be izuna instead of other popular candidates:
so6p:confirmed death and only anted the best for the world... not to destroy it , wouldnt he have two rinnegan eyes from the start?
obito:too young and doesnt fit the timeline
eldest son:didnt have a propper sharingan but a cross of rinnegan and sharingan,also he died long before madara etc and doesnt fit the timeline
shisui:itachi confirmed his death... and isnt gonna be fooled by genjutsu , shisui and itachi got along , so why would shisui call itachi a "thorn in my side"

i agree totally he is undoubtably izuna
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

Tobi is Madara's brother
You must be registered for see images
Now i will explain why i said it is going to be Izuna,pay close attention

Now we will start from madara to harashima,
Madara who was half blind was said to have taken izuna's MS in order to regain his sight,but it was never said that madara took both eyes,now i know what u will say..that u need both eyes to gain back ur sight but lets think about it..Izuna was said to be an equal to madara so why would he give his eyes to madara in order to fight harashima,even he could have fought the 1st & maybe even won..after all Izuna's MS was different than madara & could have given him an advantage over the 1 unless infact that izuna's MS abilities did not have a more advantage than madara's MS ability..which would explain why an equal uchiha in power & skills would give his eyes to another equal uchiha(madara)
Now lets go back to what Tobi
Tobi in his explanation to sasuke told us that Izuna which he was calming to be,his brother at that time gave him "madara" which he calmed to be his eyes In order for Him to fight harashima..
Now pause,let's think about this,if madara was given the EMS by Izuna in order to fight harashima for the sit of hokage then how did Izuna die in war when at the time he gave his eyes to madara the war was already over...
But wait it might have been during their last battle which lead to peace that Izuna died but then again madara would have not accepted peace becoz according to tobi it was the way the uchiha said that madara took his brother eyes in order to gain power & also how is brother sacrifice meant nothing in the uchiha's eyes that made him hate the leaf & uchihas,,so it is highly unlikely that madara would have agree to make peace with the senju when Izuna his brother was dead
What am i trying to say here that Izuna did not die in the war,Now while a lot of u will say that it has been said that Izuna died at war let me remind u that things that are said and not shown mostly turn out not to be what was saidU_U
Now this doesn't explain a lot of why tobi is doing what he is doing & how he knows much so i would explain
Izuna & madara were said & shown to have been the first to awaken the MS NOTE that they were the first & not the only ones,yet it was said that they were few that got these power(MS) but it wasn't said that madara & Izuna were the only one with MS,
now u might say why can't it be that d brothers were the only ones that had the MS why? becoz if it was only madara who had the EMS & everyone else had normal sharingan then HE alone would have killed all the uchiha's with ease in a night like itachi & tobi but he didn't, why would a god at that time listen to some old weak uchiha's when they should be worshiping his EMS

Only 2 reason can be given,either they were up to 7 uchihas which he knew that together they could kill him or He had sometin someone he cared about.
Now i doubt that 20 uchiha's can take madara even with MS,he will only use a meteorite to kill everyone but if u were to look at it that madara had someone he cared of & that person was not powerful enough to fight for himself or herself,so he had to agree to the uchihas then he later left the village to get this person he cared about out of harms way,Now the only person that madara even cared about was his brother & as far as we know he never had a wife.
This would explain why he 1st left the village then before fightin harashima
Now to why tobi in this case Izuna is doing all this in the present,Izuna was madara's best friend,brother( & if i may add lover:D )since madara did not die at the end of the battle it is only Natural that he would go to a place where he could try & treat his wounds,
Now u might say even if izuna was there how would a blind person take care of a dying Madara but what if he was not totally blind,madara izuna & kakashi are the only Ninjas that have unlocked their MS without killing their close friends,
Now i will tell u that Izuna had one eye how & why ?
If Izuna gives an eye to Madara that would make him able to see with one eye..Madara with an eye & Izuna would be able to kill another MS user with ease ,now since madara can see with one eye implanting another MS would make him able to see But if thats the case why did Izuna not take the other eye.2 reason can be given,either it was damaged or it would make the uchihas suspect them 0_o
If tobi is Izuna it would explain how he know's a lot of history of the leaf & how madara knows him & trust in him to bring him back to life

You might ask how does tobi's eyes look like a normal shiringan but is using a justu that a normal sharigan can't use if he is Izuna ???
I can think of 2 reasons,either he implanted shiringan in his eyes but he still retain his original MS ability or he is infact using a space time ninjustu that is not an MS ability but a justu similar to Minato's ftd but can be manipulated with the shiringan instead of a seal..
Also to how Nagato was known by madara,can be explained if tobi is izuna,it would mean that madara told him some secrets of the rinnegan before dieing which izuna would have used on Nagato's mum & dad inorder to give bath to a rinnengan user which is Nagato then He Izuna would have used a justu on Madara so that they could be communicating even beyond death,so madara would have known all of what was going on, if tobi was communication with him beyond death with a justu then Madara would know that nagato was the rinnegan user & that he was going to be the person that would be used to bring him back to life
1Ox for reading
i just want to say is that dont manipulate facts of manga to support your argument. i stopped reading when u said what if izuna was not dead in battle field. that sentence was enough for me to stop reading yr post:flaw:
 

The Riddlerr

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

How could Izuna have only given Madara one eye when he has EMS in both? If what you're saying is correct, then he should only have EMS in whichever eye was transplanted.

Now, Madara agreed to the peace treaty because it's what his clan wanted. If he were to do as you say and slaughter all of them, what would be the point? There would be no Uchiha Clan left. They had spent X amount of decades fighting and dying for no true cause and they were literally sick of it, which is why when the Senju Clan offered the peace proposal, it was taken.

And now, the 3rd Databook specifically says that Izuna fought and died in battle - it never says he died in a war. The thing is, we don't know the time elapsed between Madara getting EMS and Hashirama offering the peace proposal. Which means Izuna obviously died in that time period, but was it weeks? months? years? Back then, the Uchiha Clan had many enemies because they were so strong and it's likely they were fighting almost, if not, every day.
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

yh, shusui wanted the kyubbi so he can destroy konoha after all this time shisui wanted 2 protect konha and gave his eyes 2 itachi 2 protect his village nd wanted peace,,, yh shisui is tobi (sarcasm)
Where did I say shisui is tobi? I believe he is izuna people were saying they saw izuna in the coffin I was simply saying we also saw shisui deaf in the water but this was not the case
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

Posted same message twice - Sorry.

Original Post that was here is 2 Posts higher than this one.
 
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Sophie Ezra

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

Criteria For Tobi’s Identity

1) He is from the time of Hashirama Senju, and needs to be someone the Kyuubi would instantly recognize.

He is instantly recognized by the Kyuubi, who as far as we know has been sealed away in an Uzumaki jinchuuriki ever since the battle at the Valley of the End, where Uzumaki Mito sealed it into herself. There are no reports of the Kyuubi having broken free aside from in Yondaime’s time. This means that Tobi is someone the Kyuubi met during the time of Hashirama.

Given the way in which he speaks of past events, he has first-hand knowledge of and was emotionally investment in the Uchiha/Senju conflict.

Izuna fits: Uchiha Izuna was from this time period, and for obvious reasons, was personally and emotionally invested in fighting the Senju.

2) He has to have a credible reason for being pissed off at the Uchiha’s making peace with the Senju, and needs to be personally, emotionally invested in Uchiha Izuna’s eyes being given to Uchiha Madara.

“What kind of monster would hurt his beloved younger brother?! All I ever wanted was to protect the Uchiha clan! […] My younger brother accepted his role and willingly gave his eyes to me….[Tobi clenches his arms in anger]. What happened to the hatred we had for them?! What did my brother sacrifice his eyes for?!”

Izuna fits: He has ample reason to be pissed off at the Uchiha, even more so than Uchiha Madara; he sacrificed his eyes and possibly his life to give Madara the EMS in order to protect the Uchiha in their fight against the Senju, only to have them go and make peace? Why did he sacrifice his eyes and his life for them, then?!

3) He has a credible reason for claiming that the eyes Nagato had “were [his] to begin with.”

Izuna fits: If we accept the likelihood that Nagato’s eyes used to be Uchiha Madara’s (who is the only person we know which awakened the Rinnegan), then we also accept that Nagato’s eyes originally belonged to Uchiha Izuna’s, as we know that Uchiha Madara’s EMS eyes originally belonged to Izuna. Izuna fits this perfectly; no one else has a better credible reason to claim Nagato’s eyes “were his to begin with” than Izuna.

4) He needs to be a person whom Uchiha Madara will trust with his own life and rebirth.

Madara trusted Tobi to bring him back to life with Nagato’s powers. This is a major deal. Who would the great Uchiha Madara trust with his own life?

If we accept Madara’s statement that he awakened the Rinnegan shortly before his death, then this also means that he had only a very short period of time to transplant the Rinnegan into child Nagato. This means that he was 100%, utterly dependent on Tobi to carry out the ‘plan’ he mentioned to Kabuto, which included his resurrection.

Madara also gave Tobi access to the Hashirama-related power which he had nearly died for; an incredible show of trust.

Izuna fits: He is Uchiha Madara’s younger brother, and brotherly ties are a major focal point of this manga. We know that Rinnei Tensei can bring the dead back to life, and we know that Uchiha Madara gained the Rinnegan before dying. It would make sense if he used the Rinnegan to bring back Izuna.

Counter-Argument: Nagato wasn’t able to bring back Jiraiya because he had died too long ago! How could Madara bring back Izuna, who had died even longer ago!

Response: Uchiha Madara planned to use Nagato to bring himself back to life. If we accept that Madara died while Nagato was a child (which is necessary, as Nagato was given the Rinnegan as a child), and that Nagato was expected to ‘grow’ into his power, then this shows Madara thought it was fully possible for Nagato to resurrect him, despite years having passed. Which indicates that it is also fully possible for Madara to resurrect Izuna, despite years having passed.

5) He needs to have a credible grudge against Konoha, and has to have waited a long time for his vengeance against Konoha.
Spoken to Kushina: “Do you have any idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?!”

Izuna fits: His reason for a grudge against Konoha are obvious and profound; he gave his eyes to fight against the Senju who controlled the village, then eventually expelled his brother out from it. If we accept that he died or was maimed back in Hashirama’s days, then he has been waiting a long, long time indeed for his vengeance.

6) Tobi needs to be an Uchiha.

Although not Madara, Tobi still needs to have an Uchiha’s body; he uses the sharingan with expertise not seen outside a native Uchiha, and does not appear to have any problems with his body not being suited for the sharingan.

Izuna fits: Self-explanatory.

7) Tobi has to have a credible reason for being at least partly made out of Zetsu goo, even as far back as the fight with Yondaime.

Izuna somewhat fits: Tobi claims that Uchiha Izuna died in battle after losing his eyes. Knowing that Rinnei Tensi is capable of bringing the dead back, and also knowing that Zetsu goo is based off of Hashirama’s DNA, it’s credible that for Madara to bring Izuna back, he had to use Zetsu goo for whatever reason. Admittedly, more data is required here.

8) He has an old, wrinkly face, despite being partially made out of Zetsu goo.

Izuna fits: If we accept that Izuna was brought back to life with the Rinnegan while Nagato was a child, then at least 30+ years have passed, as we know that Nagato (being Jiraiya’s first disciple) should be as old or older than Minato. If Izuna was brought back in a partially ‘real’ body which aged, and if he had died in his 20’s, then he would now be in his 50’s or 60’s, explaining the wrinkly face. This is also supported by the fact that he indicates if Itachi knew some of his secrets, the Amaterasu would have killed him, indicating that at least part of him was non-Zetsu goo and thus vulnerable to being killed.
plus rep for the effort i guess we will have to wait and see only time will tell

I'm starting to think so, too.
People say that Izuna died and there was a scene of him in a coffin. True, but remember, Tobi was the one narrating that story. More than half of the story to Sasuke was a lie — claiming to be Madara; Izuna "agreeing" to give up his eyes; having nothing to do with the Nine-Tails incident.

Other than that, we haven't seen Izuna dead nor has anyone else confirmed it. That image could have been added in just for effect. Itachi didn't mention Izuna's death when he was explaining about Madara and the EMS (or at least I don't think).

And it could be that when Izuna gave up his eyes (or so they say), he replaced them with another Sharingan? Hence why it seems like Tobi's Sharingan are always activated.



Anyway, just my 2cents, my own opinion. Time will tell =DD
good point + rep who know who he is kishi will tell us eventually
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

How do we know that wasn't a Zetsu clone?
Because the Zetsu clones were made from Hashirama's DNA which Madara hadn't obtained at that time. It was said he gained it AFTER he lost the fight at the Valley of the End, but Izuna died way before then.
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

All what OP said + some more and also Tobi and Izuna have the same weight and height, just saying.
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

tobi told itachi that izuna willingly gave his eyes to madara to protect the clan from increasing number of enemies. to say/know such a thing means that tobi was at that time near them or at least be one of them to know that fact. I still dont think Izuna is TObi though. im a frkng mustard.
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

i just want to say is that dont manipulate facts of manga to support your argument. i stopped reading when u said what if izuna was not dead in battle field. that sentence was enough for me to stop reading yr post:flaw:
U should have finished it before stopping at a sentence that the answer is after it:flaw:
 

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Re: Tobi is Izuna: The Complete Guide to Tobi's Identity

just few questions.

1. only peoples who died before a certain interval of times can be revived. that's why all of konoha peoples were revived while jiraiya couldnt been revived.

2.i think madara's plan was also flawed and kishi trolled on us beacuse nagato was already powerful enough and if nagato and tobi wanted then they could had easily revived madara but it never happend. hence i think nagato couldnt revived madara beacuse the time span was too long but what proves madara actually wanted to be revived from nagato???

3.if 9 tail fox recognized tobi as izuna then why didnt he simply say izuna summoned me instead of saying that masked man. hence izuna and tobi are not relevant in 9 tails view angle.

4.izuna was formally declared dead

5.but my main question is how did izuna learned space time ninjutsu ???? i dont think he invented his own space time ninjutsu all of a sudden after death of madara. it dnt make sense.

6.final question why is izuna still so fresh,powerful,active bcoz he should had been very old,fragile, lacking chakra. just look at 3rd hokage who was so weak incomparison to his primes.

i got a lot of quiries but i honest think izuna is not tobi.
I'm going to ignore 1 and 2 because I'm assuming Izuna did not die. Okay, here we go :D
____________________

3. Where exactly does Kyuubi say "the Masked Man summoned me"? Chapter reference would be nice, thanks. The Kyuubi only says "You!" when he sees Tobi during the attack years ago.

4. By who? You willing to take Tobi's word for it? Tobi is a liar, that should be clear by now. His story does not make any sense. And don't say "we saw a picture of Izuna dead", because that doesn't mean much either. Look at the picture below:

You must be registered for see images

You see Izuna smiling? Happy that he gave up his eyes, right? =DD
Aww, how devoted of him, to give up his MS and sight all for his older brother. Sarcasm aside, the point is; just because we see a picture of him, it doesn't mean it actually applies.

5. Learning any technique is not a big thing. Izuna could have gone into hiding and stumbled upon a scroll or something xD

6. Hence why we never see Tobi pull off any amazing feats. He's got the Rinnegan, but all he's used it for is to summon the Gedo Mazo and use the Outer Path's Chakra Chains. He hasn't used Almighty Push or Planetary Devastation.

But being old doesn't mean you can't fight. Sarutobi still pulled off a hell of a battle. So did Danzo.
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Good debate, my good sir. Let's keep it rolling =DD
 
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