A theory to support why Tobi failed to use genjutsu against Minato

[ajpn920]

I have seen enough threads about Minato's immunity to genjutsu. I've noticed that most of these threads are made by an Uchiha fan. I don't know what they're up to but I'm certain they try to humiliate Minato's fan. They're claiming that Minato fans does not use logic so I started it by asking the question why Tobi failed to use genjutsu against Minato. The answer from these self proclaiming Uchiha geniuses fanboys are:

1. PLOT
2. Tobi did not intend to use it
3. Was not able to use genjutsu because he was controlling the fox.

Let's discuss number 2. This answer is really stupid and whoever answer this is dumb. This answer defeats Tobi's purpose. Where is the logic behind this answer? Nothing at all...

Let's proceed to the 3rd one. Tobi had all the time to cast genjutsu on Minato when he took Naruto as a hostage. Once again, He was not able to do it and not casting a genjutsu on the strongest man of the village is definitely a bad move and with no logical reason at all. Tobi’s advantage was his genjutsu, yet he failed to use it before the fight, during the fight, and after the fight.

Lastly, the PLOT. This is their safest answer because these self proclaiming Uchiha geniuses fanboys can't think some logical reasons. Still they failed because there is no LOGIC behind the answer PLOT. They forgot that they are reading a story here. Why not view it as a HINT? This is the only chapter that we can see Minato in action. Kishi until now did not reveal Minato’s true skill, lineage, etc..He’s a complete mystery. Every little detail about Minato can be used to uncover his mystery.

Since they can't even think of a possible reason, I'll try to answer that with a theory logical enough to support why Tobi failed to use genjutsu or to simply put why Minato will beat Itachi.

Let's analyze or try to deduce the mechanics behind Minato's FTG. We all know that FTG is a ninjutsu. We also know that when creating a ninjutsu, the two methods of manipulating chakra are referred to as Shape Transformation and Nature Transformation.

Since we know the methods of manipulating chakra to create ninjutsu then FTG should be under Shape Transformation or Nature Transformation. We know that rasengan is the highest form of Shape Transformation. It's unlikely that FTG is a shape transformation technique as FTG is a space/time technique.

We are left with Nature Transformation and we know that there are 6 types of nature elements. They are as follows:

Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, Water, and YIN YANG

Our common sense will tell us that (referring to those who have one..) FTG is not a Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, and Water type. So what we have left is the YIN YANG. Sounds logical? Yes..

Since YIN release and YANG release are needed to form a NINJUTSU, then is it possible that Minato is a master of YIN release and YANG release? No one can create a NINJUTSU if he can't master his/her element well.

While it's true that two techniques of the same nature would cancel each other out if the same amount of chakra was put into them like Kakashi's fight with Kakuzu, where he was able to cancel Kakuzu's Lightning Release by deflecting it with his own technique, is it possible for Minato to counter YIN release techniques with his own YIN techniques?

Unlike Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, Water techs where we can see them if being used, YIN release can't be seen because it is based on the spiritual energy that governs the imagination.

MY POINT: Since I don't believe the story to be PLOT but rather a HINT, this COULD be one of the reason why we did not see Tobi using a sharingan on Minato. This is my OPINION with some explanation behind it.

 

[Shisui Namikaze]

Good job.
Nice sig.

 

[-Jiraiya-]

<Nice>

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

look there you go again ignoring plot and decided to change it into a hint

we already told u what the answer but apparently u don't want to listen if it don't suit ur opinion,

kishomoto has been using plot shield since the manga start, that was in order to entertain the readers so it won't be boring and lame,

for example
Edo Deidara can easily spam C0 and kill all ppl in the war but kishi don't make him do that since it will be boring,
Edo Madara can also spam that meteor to destroy the 5th kage but nah kishi didn't do that
Current Naruto was said to be able to sense malicious/evil/killing intent from miles away, with that he can easily find sasuke but kishi don't do that since it will kill the excitement
and there is itachi when j-man appear in to save naruto, if we are using ur so called logic itachi can amaterasu j-man or tsukoyomi, but it will be lame if someone like j-man got owned by a new character like itachi,

so the answer is plot shield and kishimoto is responsible for that, its sad since u use kishimoto quote while u deny what kishimoto did in his manga

 

[freestyle392]

not any kind of fan boy and i think that was a good arguement
but i have a different idea

your argument says minato was a master of yin and yang element, what if he actually mastered three elements like Onoki and dust release. what if minato had a kg that was space / time. dust release is made up of earth wind and fire, so what if space / time is a different three,like wind fire and lightning. like you said we don't know anything about minato except the fight seen with tobi. and no one else has been seen using a space / time technique that i can think of, only minato

 

[Killer B]

nice job man

your argument makes sense to me....and yeah nice sig

 

[RAMKAD]

Well the reason is genjutsu isn't really a combat type jutsu it is used mainly for interrogation and deception note yomato, rin .itachi 3rd mizukage and sasuke to some extent are masters of genjutsu . Which makes it possible for them to is it in combat which an opponent how is attacking and looking for an opening constantly . Tobi genjutsu is not either on itachi or the 3rd mizukages level so tobi facing an opponent who capitalizes on speed which he has little knowledge of (his abilities I.e minato) .tobi using a genjutsu would be a stupid move since not all sharingan genjutsu are as powerful as that of itachi(proven by the donzo and sasuke fight) . I hope this clear up the reason tobi didn't use genjutsu in that fight and relied on time-space techniques.

 

[Benny123]

+rep

 

[LolaxXx]

Cool thread and everything, But uh...
all i saw here was PURE speculation. And dont try to use the "Your a Uchiha fan" card, cuz Im not, Minato is actually my fave character. But after everything you said, you didnt show us where it is actually shown what exactly Minato specializes in, OR how much chakra he has in what he specializes in. I think Tobi didnt use a genjutsu purely because he underestimated Minato the entire fight until he was finally hit, but by then was too late, as he already suffered too much damage, he probably thought there was no need to use a genjutsu since he was so set on just warping Minato away, probably use genjutsu on him later. Minato being immune to genjutsu? Thats hard to believe. So im going with PLOT. Because yes, Tobi COULD have place Minato in genjutsu and ended it there, but since it is an anime/manga, and not real life, the creators didnt make Tobi use it. If he did, what kind of story would that be, might as well let Deidara C0 everyone and kill every non sharingan, or non-lightning affinity person, or have madara spam his meteorites allday, or having gaara use a gaint tsunami against every single opponent, I can go on and on. So I say PLOT. Not rying to bash what you said...but i dont agree with you

 

[ajpn920]

not any kind of fan boy and i think that was a good arguement
but i have a different idea

your argument says minato was a master of yin and yang element, what if he actually mastered three elements like Onoki and dust release. what if minato had a kg that was space / time. dust release is made up of earth wind and fire, so what if space / time is a different three,like wind fire and lightning. like you said we don't know anything about minato except the fight seen with tobi. and no one else has been seen using a space / time technique that i can think of, only minato

He could also have Earth and Wind. Using the jutsu to detect enemies by touching the ground. Ground=Earth. Wind is of high possibility.

 

[devojoyti halder]

I have seen enough threads about Minato's immunity to genjutsu. I've noticed that most of these threads are made by an Uchiha fan. I don't know what they're up to but I'm certain they try to humiliate Minato's fan. They're claiming that Minato fans does not use logic so I started it by asking the question why Tobi failed to use genjutsu against Minato. The answer from these self proclaiming Uchiha geniuses fanboys are:

1. PLOT
2. Tobi did not intend to use it
3. Was not able to use genjutsu because he was controlling the fox.

Let's discuss number 2. This answer is really stupid and whoever answer this is dumb. This answer defeats Tobi's purpose. Where is the logic behind this answer? Nothing at all...

Let's proceed to the 3rd one. Tobi had all the time to cast genjutsu on Minato when he took Naruto as a hostage. Once again, He was not able to do it and not casting a genjutsu on the strongest man of the village is definitely a bad move and with no logical reason at all. Tobi’s advantage was his genjutsu, yet he failed to use it before the fight, during the fight, and after the fight.

Lastly, the PLOT. This is their safest answer because these self proclaiming Uchiha geniuses fanboys can't think some logical reasons. Still they failed because there is no LOGIC behind the answer PLOT. They forgot that they are reading a story here. Why not view it as a HINT? This is the only chapter that we can see Minato in action. Kishi until now did not reveal Minato’s true skill, lineage, etc..He’s a complete mystery. Every little detail about Minato can be used to uncover his mystery.

Since they can't even think of a possible reason, I'll try to answer that with a theory logical enough to support why Tobi failed to use genjutsu or to simply put why Minato will beat Itachi.

Let's analyze or try to deduce the mechanics behind Minato's FTG. We all know that FTG is a ninjutsu. We also know that when creating a ninjutsu, the two methods of manipulating chakra are referred to as Shape Transformation and Nature Transformation.

Since we know the methods of manipulating chakra to create ninjutsu then FTG should be under Shape Transformation or Nature Transformation. We know that rasengan is the highest form of Shape Transformation. It's unlikely that FTG is a shape transformation technique as FTG is a space/time technique.

We are left with Nature Transformation and we know that there are 6 types of nature elements. They are as follows:

Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, Water, and YIN YANG

Our common sense will tell us that (referring to those who have one..) FTG is not a Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, and Water type. So what we have left is the YIN YANG. Sounds logical? Yes..

Since FTG leads us to being a YIN YANG, we can conclude that Minato mastered YIN release and YANG release because he was able to create FTG, an S-rank technique..Only a moron will disagree with this.

Guess whereTsukoyomi fittingly falls? YIN Release. It's no doubt that a master of YIN release can also cancel YIN release techniques. That's what we call COUNTERBALANCING. A principle that states two techniques of the same nature would cancel each other out if the same amount of chakra was put into them.

There you go guys. Feel free to read it. It's really shameful that these self proclaiming Uchiha geniuses fanboys can't even analyze. Calling us dumb huh..Now, who's dumb? Please feel free to PM me for a debate. I would love to pawn these stupid pretenders....

Here comes another hardcore minato fan who is just too dumb to realise the true facts and pray more and more on his minato shrine. :flaw:

One true reason is tobi's fighting style, he is not a genjutsu fighter, he fights with space time ninjutsu.

Also, i agree with you that 3rd point is foolish.
And, ftg is not yin yang release, it is simply space time ninjutsu. FTG can be roughly compared with summoning jutsu, where you make a contract and teleports the persom/thing. And summoning jutsu is not yin yang release.
ALso, every technique is not necessarily any elemental or yin yang release. Where will you classify shadow clone and clone jutsus? yin yang ? xd

And and, stop showing off minato as god and disrespecting other fanboys.
Indeed minato was very powerful, hence became kage of hidden leaf village, but overrating him that much is dumb. U_U

 

[ajpn920]

Cool thread and everything, But uh...
all i saw here was PURE speculation. And dont try to use the "Your a Uchiha fan" card, cuz Im not, Minato is actually my fave character. But after everything you said, you didnt show us where it is actually shown what exactly Minato specializes in, OR how much chakra he has in what he specializes in. I think Tobi didnt use a genjutsu purely because he underestimated Minato the entire fight until he was finally hit, but by then was too late, as he already suffered too much damage, he probably thought there was no need to use a genjutsu since he was so set on just warping Minato away, probably use genjutsu on him later. Minato being immune to genjutsu? Thats hard to believe. So im going with PLOT. Because yes, Tobi COULD have place Minato in genjutsu and ended it there, but since it is an anime/manga, and not real life, the creators didnt make Tobi use it. If he did, what kind of story would that be, might as well let Deidara C0 everyone and kill every non sharingan, or non-lightning affinity person, or have madara spam his meteorites allday, or having gaara use a gaint tsunami against every single opponent, I can go on and on. So I say PLOT. Not rying to bash what you said...but i dont agree with you

No. If we go by LOGIC then it's unlikely that Tobi won't use genjutsu because it defeats his purpose and we know what Tobi's purpose is.

A speculation but with something to support. I believe there's two kind of speculation. A weak and strong type

Here's an example:

1. Minato has fire element: Absolutely a poor one because there is nothing to support this speculation.

2. Minato has wind: A strong one because of the hints given.

Hints:
A. Jiraiya said that Minato was a shrewd person, and was not a man who would do something without reason

B. Attempted to stab A using a kunai when A is using a lightning shroud.

C. Wind is greater than lightning.

If we add A+B+C, then there's a high possibility that Minato had wind element. This is speculation but a strong one.

Try to compare the two examples and you know what I mean. If someone will say, Minato can easily be trapped by a genjutsu, then he is speculating and of weak type. Why? because there is no evidence even the tiniest one to support that claim.

 

[ajpn920]

Here comes another hardcore minato fan who is just too dumb to realise the true facts and pray more and more on his minato shrine. :flaw:

One true reason is tobi's fighting style, he is not a genjutsu fighter, he fights with space time ninjutsu.

Also, i agree with you that 3rd point is foolish.
And, ftg is not yin yang release, it is simply space time ninjutsu. FTG can be roughly compared with summoning jutsu, where you make a contract and teleports the persom/thing. And summoning jutsu is not yin yang release.
ALso, every technique is not necessarily any elemental or yin yang release. Where will you classify shadow clone and clone jutsus? yin yang ? xd

And and, stop showing off minato as god and disrespecting other fanboys.
Indeed minato was very powerful, hence became kage of hidden leaf village, but overrating him that much is dumb. U_U

Okay sir. Then where will you put FTG? you know that it is a ninjutsu. I am not showing off. As I said I'm speculating but with something to support. Can't understand what that means?

 

[ajpn920]

nice job man

your argument makes sense to me....and yeah nice sig

Tnx..

 

[devojoyti halder]

Okay sir. Then where will you put FTG? you know that it is a ninjutsu. I am not showing off. As I said I'm speculating but with something to support. Can't understand what that means?

Same where you would put summoning jutsu. ...aaa....normal ninjutsu or special techniques i think ?

 

[izinagi54]

I have seen enough threads about Minato's immunity to genjutsu. I've noticed that most of these threads are made by an Uchiha fan. I don't know what they're up to but I'm certain they try to humiliate Minato's fan. They're claiming that Minato fans does not use logic so I started it by asking the question why Tobi failed to use genjutsu against Minato. The answer from these self proclaiming Uchiha geniuses fanboys are:

1. PLOT
2. Tobi did not intend to use it
3. Was not able to use genjutsu because he was controlling the fox.

Let's discuss number 2. This answer is really stupid and whoever answer this is dumb. This answer defeats Tobi's purpose. Where is the logic behind this answer? Nothing at all...

Let's proceed to the 3rd one. Tobi had all the time to cast genjutsu on Minato when he took Naruto as a hostage. Once again, He was not able to do it and not casting a genjutsu on the strongest man of the village is definitely a bad move and with no logical reason at all. Tobi’s advantage was his genjutsu, yet he failed to use it before the fight, during the fight, and after the fight.

Lastly, the PLOT. This is their safest answer because these self proclaiming Uchiha geniuses fanboys can't think some logical reasons. Still they failed because there is no LOGIC behind the answer PLOT. They forgot that they are reading a story here. Why not view it as a HINT? This is the only chapter that we can see Minato in action. Kishi until now did not reveal Minato’s true skill, lineage, etc..He’s a complete mystery. Every little detail about Minato can be used to uncover his mystery.

Since they can't even think of a possible reason, I'll try to answer that with a theory logical enough to support why Tobi failed to use genjutsu or to simply put why Minato will beat Itachi.

Let's analyze or try to deduce the mechanics behind Minato's FTG. We all know that FTG is a ninjutsu. We also know that when creating a ninjutsu, the two methods of manipulating chakra are referred to as Shape Transformation and Nature Transformation.

Since we know the methods of manipulating chakra to create ninjutsu then FTG should be under Shape Transformation or Nature Transformation. We know that rasengan is the highest form of Shape Transformation. It's unlikely that FTG is a shape transformation technique as FTG is a space/time technique.

We are left with Nature Transformation and we know that there are 6 types of nature elements. They are as follows:

Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, Water, and YIN YANG

Our common sense will tell us that (referring to those who have one..) FTG is not a Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, and Water type. So what we have left is the YIN YANG. Sounds logical? Yes..

Since FTG leads us to being a YIN YANG, we can conclude that Minato mastered YIN release and YANG release because he was able to create FTG, an S-rank technique..Only a moron will disagree with this.

Guess whereTsukoyomi fittingly falls? YIN Release. It's no doubt that a master of YIN release can also cancel YIN release techniques. That's what we call COUNTERBALANCING. A principle that states two techniques of the same nature would cancel each other out if the same amount of chakra was put into them.

There you go guys. Feel free to read it. It's really shameful that these self proclaiming Uchiha geniuses fanboys can't even analyze. Calling us dumb huh..Now, who's dumb? Please feel free to PM me for a debate. I would love to pawn these stupid pretenders....

maybe tobi was being the over confident a** he as always been until minato pwn him rasangan then he is like OMG HOW by the way i think he not human he leaks white blood durning the manga and anime

 

[Turson]

Madara was just already controlling Kyuubi... as simple as that.

 

[ajpn920]

Good job.
Nice sig.

tnx

<Nice>

tnx

nice job man


your argument makes sense to me....and yeah nice sig

tnx

+rep

tnx

Same where you would put summoning jutsu. ...aaa....normal ninjutsu i think ?

You know that ninjutsu uses chakra right? types of chakra used to make ninjutsu are shape and and nature transformation. Just analyze where FTG would be if it is not a shape transformation then will determine it's affinity.

 

[joodaa]

very nice

 

[izinagi54]

Madara was just already controlling Kyuubi... as simple as that.

the same man is not madara to be honest we don't even know his name