[Theory] Tobi: Thread for all Tobi theories and related discussions .
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Braveknight
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Re: The Madara, Tobi & Black Zetsu connection
Srsly I didn't mean any bad , that was the most logic theory about Tobi I have ever readied here
Re: The Madara, Tobi & Black Zetsu connection
I take the book writers over people posting 3 sentences that make no sense ~_~.
And thanks to the peeps who enjoy reading theories!
No bad takenSrsly I didn't mean any bad , that was the most logic theory about Tobi I have ever readied here
I take the book writers over people posting 3 sentences that make no sense ~_~.
And thanks to the peeps who enjoy reading theories!
Re: The Madara, Tobi & Black Zetsu connection
Madara:
Fights 1st hokage
Gets away
Acquires Senju DNA
Uses that DNA to create Zetsu
His goal was to obtain the senju powers.
He learned that Zetsu has crazy healing\restoration powers cuz of the senju power.
Madara repaired himself as much as he could using the senju power.
Madara used Zetsu and tried to revive Izuna.
Izuna's body was re-animated but he was not able to pull the soul from the afterlife.
So Black Zetsu was created from Izuna corpse + White Zetsu.
White Zetsu is purely the senju power and that's why it is mass produce and black zetsu isn't...
I think that the Black Zetsu is Izuna (might not know he is Izuna) because:
-He can record battles, seems like a sharingan power to me <Maybe even his MS ability because he is able to share the fight with Tobi\Masked man>
-He claims to be "made of the Earth" - A corpse buried in the ground starts becoming earth (circle of life) as well as White Zetsu being made from senju DNA which seems to have earthly characteristics and qualites.
White Zetsu is mass produced and nothing more than senju's powers being manipulated and controlled by Tobi\Madara
This also explains the two parts of Zetsu splitting, and 2 personalities. Perhaps the black zetsu shows similar character traits to Izuna.
Madara lived a long time. I think he was alive when Nagato was born, but was close to dying.
I think Madara created Tobi using white Zetsu and his body (after his death) in order to carry on his moon's eye plan.
I believe Madara's goal was to go to the afterlife and trust his Tobi creation and Black Zetsu to carry on his will.
Madara unlocked the rinnegan close to or soon after Nagato's birth.
Since Madara was old and severly weakened from his battle with the 1st, he wasn't able to advance and use the rinnegan as much as he wanted to.
His work around was plant the eyes in Uzimaki Nagato (good choice in Uzimaki, and Tobi has complimented the Uzi clan many times)
Tobi would manipulate Nagato as well as monitor Nagato's growth and usage abilities with the rinnegan.
His ultimate plan was to be revived by Nagato later with a newer stronger body.
At this point Madara and Izuna's souls are both in the afterlife.
Tobi is Madara's body and most of his will - living because of Zetsu powering (How many times has Tobi said he's a shell of his old self
Zetsu is Izuna as explained earlier.
As we all know, the plans of being revived by Nagato failed.
When Madara first came back, he instantly noticed something wasn't right. Of course that was because he was revived by Kabuto.
I think Madara was suprised because his body was in it's prime as far as health\strength, yet he also had the rinnegan.
I'll try to stop now, love writing.
AS ALWAYS:
THIS IS A LOGICAL GUESS.
MEANING IT IS AN OPINION.
IF YOU HAVE HARD PROOF FROM A LEGIT SOURCE THAT SOMETHING HERE IS INCORRECT, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!
I would update my guess and thank you for pointing out something i overlooked\forgot about etc.
IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS, THAT'S FINE.... THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF OPINIONS AND THEORIES - THERE CAN BE MANY!
Other than that,
N~joy and sorry if this is double post, It didn't seem to be @ a glance.
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Re: The Madara, Tobi & Black Zetsu connection
Lentz,
If you don't understand something... save yourself the embarassment and don't post anything....
If you don't agree with it, original post covers what an opinion is and how it works....
Other than that.... take a maturity boost and stop flaming.
Lentz,
If you don't understand something... save yourself the embarassment and don't post anything....
If you don't agree with it, original post covers what an opinion is and how it works....
Other than that.... take a maturity boost and stop flaming.
Onion Soda
Active member
Another Tobi Theory.
I came up with a theory from the manga that tobi is sasukes father and then connected some dots then i googled it myself not wanting to type out the theory because im lazy i rationalize that itachis dat fugaku was hiding shisui uchihas body when the police approached itachi and his dad covered for itachi. the fugaku who died in the massacre was a zetsu clone. the theory below is what some other dude typed.
The name "Fugaku" is an alias, or alternative name, for Mt. Fuji in Japan. While the origin for Mt. Fuji's name isn't 100% clear, a Japanese text says it gained its name from the word "immortal" (Fuji). Tobi is called immortal by many characters in Naruto.
Another origin of the name of Mt. Fuji says that it gained its name from an idea of "an abundance (fu) of soldiers (shi/ji)". Tobi has 100,000 soldiers at his bidding.
Another Japanese folklore says that Fuji came from the words "not" and "two". In Japan, this translates as "without equal" or "having no equal". That would explain his character as the main antagonist.
That regards Fugaku's name.
For appearances, when Tobi removed his mask, it was clear that the man is aged and has 2 bags under his eyes. If you look closer, there's also Fugaku's and Itachi's prominent facial creases. Fugaku was 40 at his apparent death. The story has since moved on 10 years, giving an appropriate age for the man under the mask.
Now on to the plot:
Fugaku needed an alias. His name is not feared and won't gather immediate respect. Thus, he took on "Madara" as both of their ideals are similar. Since their ideals are similar, no one would question if he was really Madara.
Fugaku wanted the Uchiha Clan to control Konoha. He didn't like the way his clan was treated. This was well known throughout the higher ups of Konoha. Thus, when the 9-Tails attacked, Fugaku and the Uchiha were suspected of planning it. Fugaku was also noticeably absent during the attack as mentioned by Itachi.
Where was he you may ask? He was busy attacking Minato as "Tobi/Madara". When he failed to destroy Konoha and the elders, he had to re-think his plan.
What he came up with was the Eye of the Moon Plan. It was then where he decided to gather Hashirama's DNA in order to obtain Izanagi and greater powers. Since these bodily experiments would be rather obvious, he had his reliable servant, Zetsu, make a clone of him before starting. From that day on, it was the Zetsu clone that took his place in Konoha.
After some time, Tobi approached Konoha in order to attack again. However, Itachi intercepted him and made a deal, oblivious of the fact that it was really his father. But why would Fugaku make a deal that would kill off his entire clan?
First off, Itachi had fallen out of favor from his father. Fugaku thought Itachi would be the clan's saving member. However, it became painfully obvious that Itachi wasn't interested in doing what's best for the clan.
Since killing the entire clan would make Itachi a rogue shinobi, this was the perfect opportunity for Itachi to help Fugaku. As a rogue shinobi, he would be hired into Akatsuki, unwillingly helping Fugaku to achieve his master plan.
Also, this would kill his Zetsu clone, significant because if left unharmed, the clone would theoretically not age. This would reveal that it's not really Fugaku.
Another reason is the development of Sasuke. Sasuke had recently gained his father's trust, though not as much as Itachi had. Knowing that anger can drive a person without end, killing off his clan and family would jump-start a potential powerful shinobi.
This worked out perfectly for Fugaku.
Fugaku now has his ideal son working for him in Itachi. If Itachi still doesn't work out, Fugaku has Sasuke in the background, increasingly becoming stronger. He also has fame and reputation as "Madara".
Now for some miscellaneous details:
Naruto and Sasuke will be forever intertwined. The same goes for their family and blood.
During the 9-Tails' attack, it was revealed that Kushina and Mikoto Uchiha (Sasuke's mother) are friends, and good ones at that. Mikoto was also said to be missing during the 9-Tails' attack. She was noticeably compliant with Fugaku's ideals of the Uchiha taking over. Thus, she told Fugaku of Kushina's pregnancy, giving him the perfect time to release the 9-Tails. That's a connection for their mothers.
For their fathers, they fought during the 9-Tails' attack. One was the Child of Prophecy that potentially could bring world peace, while the other wanted to have world domination, in his own sense of "peace".
This theory isn't perfect, but hey, Kishi has a lot of explaining to do with Tobi anyway.
Japanese mythology Izanagi's Children:
Susanoo,Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.
The 3 Imperial Regalia in the Myth are related to them.
EG: Susanoo slaying the Yamata-no-Orochi.
Itachi's Susanoo has the 3 Regalia.
Sasuke = Kagutsuchi as I showed countless time.
Kagutsuchi was the child of Izanagi and Izanami.
So Sasuke and Itachi personify the Children of Izanagi and Izanami.
Izanami's full name is:
Izanami-no-Mikoto.
Coincidence?
Also adds in:
Naruto vs Sasuke
Minato vs Tobi/Fugaku 16 years ago.
Like Father like Son.
*Credit goes to a friend of mine*
I came up with a theory from the manga that tobi is sasukes father and then connected some dots then i googled it myself not wanting to type out the theory because im lazy i rationalize that itachis dat fugaku was hiding shisui uchihas body when the police approached itachi and his dad covered for itachi. the fugaku who died in the massacre was a zetsu clone. the theory below is what some other dude typed.
The name "Fugaku" is an alias, or alternative name, for Mt. Fuji in Japan. While the origin for Mt. Fuji's name isn't 100% clear, a Japanese text says it gained its name from the word "immortal" (Fuji). Tobi is called immortal by many characters in Naruto.
Another origin of the name of Mt. Fuji says that it gained its name from an idea of "an abundance (fu) of soldiers (shi/ji)". Tobi has 100,000 soldiers at his bidding.
Another Japanese folklore says that Fuji came from the words "not" and "two". In Japan, this translates as "without equal" or "having no equal". That would explain his character as the main antagonist.
That regards Fugaku's name.
For appearances, when Tobi removed his mask, it was clear that the man is aged and has 2 bags under his eyes. If you look closer, there's also Fugaku's and Itachi's prominent facial creases. Fugaku was 40 at his apparent death. The story has since moved on 10 years, giving an appropriate age for the man under the mask.
Now on to the plot:
Fugaku needed an alias. His name is not feared and won't gather immediate respect. Thus, he took on "Madara" as both of their ideals are similar. Since their ideals are similar, no one would question if he was really Madara.
Fugaku wanted the Uchiha Clan to control Konoha. He didn't like the way his clan was treated. This was well known throughout the higher ups of Konoha. Thus, when the 9-Tails attacked, Fugaku and the Uchiha were suspected of planning it. Fugaku was also noticeably absent during the attack as mentioned by Itachi.
Where was he you may ask? He was busy attacking Minato as "Tobi/Madara". When he failed to destroy Konoha and the elders, he had to re-think his plan.
What he came up with was the Eye of the Moon Plan. It was then where he decided to gather Hashirama's DNA in order to obtain Izanagi and greater powers. Since these bodily experiments would be rather obvious, he had his reliable servant, Zetsu, make a clone of him before starting. From that day on, it was the Zetsu clone that took his place in Konoha.
After some time, Tobi approached Konoha in order to attack again. However, Itachi intercepted him and made a deal, oblivious of the fact that it was really his father. But why would Fugaku make a deal that would kill off his entire clan?
First off, Itachi had fallen out of favor from his father. Fugaku thought Itachi would be the clan's saving member. However, it became painfully obvious that Itachi wasn't interested in doing what's best for the clan.
Since killing the entire clan would make Itachi a rogue shinobi, this was the perfect opportunity for Itachi to help Fugaku. As a rogue shinobi, he would be hired into Akatsuki, unwillingly helping Fugaku to achieve his master plan.
Also, this would kill his Zetsu clone, significant because if left unharmed, the clone would theoretically not age. This would reveal that it's not really Fugaku.
Another reason is the development of Sasuke. Sasuke had recently gained his father's trust, though not as much as Itachi had. Knowing that anger can drive a person without end, killing off his clan and family would jump-start a potential powerful shinobi.
This worked out perfectly for Fugaku.
Fugaku now has his ideal son working for him in Itachi. If Itachi still doesn't work out, Fugaku has Sasuke in the background, increasingly becoming stronger. He also has fame and reputation as "Madara".
Now for some miscellaneous details:
Naruto and Sasuke will be forever intertwined. The same goes for their family and blood.
During the 9-Tails' attack, it was revealed that Kushina and Mikoto Uchiha (Sasuke's mother) are friends, and good ones at that. Mikoto was also said to be missing during the 9-Tails' attack. She was noticeably compliant with Fugaku's ideals of the Uchiha taking over. Thus, she told Fugaku of Kushina's pregnancy, giving him the perfect time to release the 9-Tails. That's a connection for their mothers.
For their fathers, they fought during the 9-Tails' attack. One was the Child of Prophecy that potentially could bring world peace, while the other wanted to have world domination, in his own sense of "peace".
This theory isn't perfect, but hey, Kishi has a lot of explaining to do with Tobi anyway.
Japanese mythology Izanagi's Children:
Susanoo,Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.
The 3 Imperial Regalia in the Myth are related to them.
EG: Susanoo slaying the Yamata-no-Orochi.
Itachi's Susanoo has the 3 Regalia.
Sasuke = Kagutsuchi as I showed countless time.
Kagutsuchi was the child of Izanagi and Izanami.
So Sasuke and Itachi personify the Children of Izanagi and Izanami.
Izanami's full name is:
Izanami-no-Mikoto.
Coincidence?
Also adds in:
Naruto vs Sasuke
Minato vs Tobi/Fugaku 16 years ago.
Like Father like Son.
*Credit goes to a friend of mine*
Last edited:
sVPunisher
Member
Re: Another Tobi Theory.
If that was the case, why would he claim he gave Nagato the Rinnegan?
If that was the case, why would he claim he gave Nagato the Rinnegan?
Naruto N. Uzumaki
Active member
Re: Another Tobi Theory.
nice its good but there's things that still don't add up like the connection between real madara nagato and tobi i don't thing sasuke dad that smart plus madara hated the uchiha clan so he won't trust the rinnegan with him
nice its good but there's things that still don't add up like the connection between real madara nagato and tobi i don't thing sasuke dad that smart plus madara hated the uchiha clan so he won't trust the rinnegan with him
trueblueg8tor
Member
Urda
Active member
Awards
Re: Another Tobi Theory.
Though, It's still not enough proof to make this believable.
That's interesting. Could mean something or not. It doesn't state his connection with Madara, Danzou or possibly Orochimaru. It also does not prove, however, how Tobi/Fugaku obtain those abilities. His identity, but not abilities. A theory could mean he killed Kagami Uchiha and stole his Sharingan/MS. That's probably the reason why Kagami Uchiha hasn't been shown or mentioned much throughout the Chapters.
Though, It's still not enough proof to make this believable.
Last edited:
spike00spiegel
Member
Booty Sage1914
Member
Re: Another Tobi Theory.
That makes perfect sense too. It gives us a person alive around that time 16 years ago who would have known Sasuke's potential as a child so he could mold both of his sons in the footsteps of the greatest Uchiha. Fugaku knew what was necessary, shared it with Itachi and here's super Sasuke. If I put Tobi as being a Uchiha, Fugaku is in theory the bestoption.
Re: Official Tobi ID thread:All Tobi theories go here:-
An ability the Sage of the Six Paths had, referred to as "Creation of All Things" (万物創造, Banbutsu Sōzō). The process he used is explained to have initially involved the administration of imagination, and the spiritual energy which forms the basis of Yin chakra to create shape and form from nothingness. It is also said that the technique Izanagi is based on this technique.
The Sage was said to have created materials from nothing using Izanagi. Izanagi was used with the Danzou vs Sasuke fight, but it permanently closes the eye sharingan after it has been used.
If it does close the eye for good, why didn't the Sage's eyes close? What if the Rinnegan made it so he could use Izanagi without his eye closing?
Madara acquired the Rinnegan during his final fight with the First Hokage when he aquired his DNA. He is the only known person to acquire the eyes by developing his eyes beyond EMS.
The stone tablet belonging to the So6p - I think the secret to this was passed down by the sage's older son, secretly to the Uchiha as he was bitter about not becoming his father's successor. His dojutsu, whether it is the rinnegan or a slight variation, should've been able to read the tablet because he directly inherited the Sage's eyes. The early ancestors of the Uchiha clan learned top secret details about how combining Senju and Uchiha DNA resulted in the formation of the Rinnegan. Many Uchiha leaders may've tried in vain to gain Senju's DNA but they were defeated everytime. Until Madara finally obtained some, albeit losing to Hashirama in the process.
Now for the interesting part:
Tobi is an Izanagi creation, made by Madara in his last moments so he could be later revived to finish his work. Tobi describes himself as being a 'shadow of his former self', possibly explained by the fact Madara was in such a weakened state when he created him and over time, as his master was dead, his power waned.
I believe Madara couldn't use Izanagi to prevent his death as I believe it's not simply a 'one off' technique; eventually he would need to re-use Izanagi to save himself from being gripped by death once again and I don't believe he had the required strength to keep this going; he had life threatening injuries and was too weak to put this kind of cycle in place.
I think only the So6p was strong enough to use it as a one off technique; which is why when danzo or Tobi use Izanagi they don't remain 'invincible for a long time'; the process must be repeated everytime a new attack hits them.
But before he passed away he had to find out a way for himself to be revived. He was severly wounded from his fight with Hashirama after all. Tobi probably didn't have enough chakra to use the rinnegan at that time, because Madara used up the little Hasirama DNA he had.
Madara felt it was more efficient to be brought back using rinne tensei at full power, full health and under no-ones control (unlike edo tensei). So Tobi was necessary in order to keep the plan in motion and ensure Nagato did his duty whilst Madara was dead.
1. So they scout for possible candidates to host Madara's rinnegan so that he could be revived using rinne tensei.
This person must have high chakra (Nagato, being Uzumaki and everyhting) because the rinnegan uses up so much of it.
2. No-one affiliated with Konoha, once again Nagato so that he would be willing to go through with the plan. Moreover he would be easily persuaded and I would even bet that Madara or Tobi had something to do with those Konoha ninja's killing Nagato's parents.
After all:
Tobi says 'he is nobody'; Have you ever thought he was actually telling the truth?
Nagato betray's Tobi using rinne tensei on Konoha when it was supposed to be used 'for his purposes'.....etc.
The main point here is that I believe Tobi is an Izanagi creation. He is devoted to his master, claiming to be no-one and only interested in the completion of the moon's eye plan. I also think being created using Izanagi, Madara created Tobi's memories and personality, possibly the reason Tobi knows so much is because these are Madara's memories, Madara's emotions.
Quote from Tobi
"Legend has it that Uchiha Madara was bested by Senju Hashirama...but is the legend true? The true winner is he who chose to focus on the future" = Obtaining the rinnegan and subsequently the completion of Moon's eye plan.
Anyways, what do you guys think?:shrug:
An ability the Sage of the Six Paths had, referred to as "Creation of All Things" (万物創造, Banbutsu Sōzō). The process he used is explained to have initially involved the administration of imagination, and the spiritual energy which forms the basis of Yin chakra to create shape and form from nothingness. It is also said that the technique Izanagi is based on this technique.
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The Sage was said to have created materials from nothing using Izanagi. Izanagi was used with the Danzou vs Sasuke fight, but it permanently closes the eye sharingan after it has been used.
You must be registered for see images
If it does close the eye for good, why didn't the Sage's eyes close? What if the Rinnegan made it so he could use Izanagi without his eye closing?
Madara acquired the Rinnegan during his final fight with the First Hokage when he aquired his DNA. He is the only known person to acquire the eyes by developing his eyes beyond EMS.
The stone tablet belonging to the So6p - I think the secret to this was passed down by the sage's older son, secretly to the Uchiha as he was bitter about not becoming his father's successor. His dojutsu, whether it is the rinnegan or a slight variation, should've been able to read the tablet because he directly inherited the Sage's eyes. The early ancestors of the Uchiha clan learned top secret details about how combining Senju and Uchiha DNA resulted in the formation of the Rinnegan. Many Uchiha leaders may've tried in vain to gain Senju's DNA but they were defeated everytime. Until Madara finally obtained some, albeit losing to Hashirama in the process.
Now for the interesting part:
Tobi is an Izanagi creation, made by Madara in his last moments so he could be later revived to finish his work. Tobi describes himself as being a 'shadow of his former self', possibly explained by the fact Madara was in such a weakened state when he created him and over time, as his master was dead, his power waned.
I believe Madara couldn't use Izanagi to prevent his death as I believe it's not simply a 'one off' technique; eventually he would need to re-use Izanagi to save himself from being gripped by death once again and I don't believe he had the required strength to keep this going; he had life threatening injuries and was too weak to put this kind of cycle in place.
I think only the So6p was strong enough to use it as a one off technique; which is why when danzo or Tobi use Izanagi they don't remain 'invincible for a long time'; the process must be repeated everytime a new attack hits them.
But before he passed away he had to find out a way for himself to be revived. He was severly wounded from his fight with Hashirama after all. Tobi probably didn't have enough chakra to use the rinnegan at that time, because Madara used up the little Hasirama DNA he had.
Madara felt it was more efficient to be brought back using rinne tensei at full power, full health and under no-ones control (unlike edo tensei). So Tobi was necessary in order to keep the plan in motion and ensure Nagato did his duty whilst Madara was dead.
1. So they scout for possible candidates to host Madara's rinnegan so that he could be revived using rinne tensei.
This person must have high chakra (Nagato, being Uzumaki and everyhting) because the rinnegan uses up so much of it.
2. No-one affiliated with Konoha, once again Nagato so that he would be willing to go through with the plan. Moreover he would be easily persuaded and I would even bet that Madara or Tobi had something to do with those Konoha ninja's killing Nagato's parents.
After all:
Tobi says 'he is nobody'; Have you ever thought he was actually telling the truth?
Nagato betray's Tobi using rinne tensei on Konoha when it was supposed to be used 'for his purposes'.....etc.
The main point here is that I believe Tobi is an Izanagi creation. He is devoted to his master, claiming to be no-one and only interested in the completion of the moon's eye plan. I also think being created using Izanagi, Madara created Tobi's memories and personality, possibly the reason Tobi knows so much is because these are Madara's memories, Madara's emotions.
Quote from Tobi
"Legend has it that Uchiha Madara was bested by Senju Hashirama...but is the legend true? The true winner is he who chose to focus on the future" = Obtaining the rinnegan and subsequently the completion of Moon's eye plan.
Anyways, what do you guys think?:shrug:
Re: Official Tobi ID thread:All Tobi theories go here:-
one flaw though....fugaku would have had to have hashirama's cells before the kyyubi attack on konoha obviously, since zetsu is made from his cells, and since tobi already probably had them inside of him also cause his hand falls off during his battle with minato.
one flaw though....fugaku would have had to have hashirama's cells before the kyyubi attack on konoha obviously, since zetsu is made from his cells, and since tobi already probably had them inside of him also cause his hand falls off during his battle with minato.
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