Viewtiful
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2012
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Heya NarutoBase members. I just joined the site a little while ago (admittedly because ***********'s forums are down, but hey 
). Anyway, this'll be my first thread, but don't discount it based on the title. There's more to the issue than you may think/know. I also apologize if this thread topic has been done a quintillion times.
Okay, as we all know, Madara Uchiha was resurrected about a dozen chapters ago, so that completely blows out of the water this theory that Tobi is still somehow him? Well, not quite. Okay, so here we go:
The weakest point in my theory is that they both mention Nagato, specifically that he's suppose to use Gedo Rinne Tensei to resurrect him (Edo Madara) and for "my purposes" (Tobi). This isn't much, as it could simply indicate that Tobi was going to in fact have Nagato revive Madara as planned. Meh, ignore this point. My others are much better. He has also stated to have obtained Hashirama's DNA in his battle with him, stating that to be his reason for fighting him, which Edo Madara said as well.
Reputability
Okay, so there have been many characters in the series who believed the "Masked Man" in Akatsuki is Madara. Most of those that believed in that are some of the strongest and most intelligent ninja alive/to ever come out of their respective villages:
-Itachi
-Kakashi
-Konan
-Nagato (it seems)
-Kisame
-Minato (especially him)
It would be very odd for Kishi to essentially go "LOL, nope, you guys is wrong"
Now, I actually left some characters off that list for this point: previous encounters. Onoki had fought/knew Madara in the distant past, yet he never cast any real doubt on Tobi's claim, even when he met him in person, which is rather odd, and even he couldn't think of who else Tobi could be, though he did find it odd that Tobi was resorting to a rather roundabout method to obtain the Tailed Beasts.
The biggest offender is Kurama, who has been controlled by both Madara and Tobi. He seemed to recognize Tobi (whether as Madara or simply familiarity, who knows), as when he spotted him, he said "You...".
Even Jiraiya, who had no knowledge of Akatsuki's "Masked Man" believed purely based off of Minato's seemingly rash actions and the sudden appearance of Kurama 16 years ago that Madara was the only person who could have done it.
This part is just an example, not to be taken as what I believe happened, just kind of a thing I find suspect.
The chapter directly before Madara was revealed to be the summon in Kabuto's sixth coffin, Mu demonstrated to us a way for two being to be separate, yet equally real, his
Statements by Tobi Himself
Of course, Tobi's statements must be taken with a grain of salt, since some of them are half-truths (coercing Sasuke into his current state) and others downright lies (telling Sasuke he didn't bring Kurama to Konoha that day). However, this case was rather different. At the end of his fight with Konan -who I add he was about to kill and there was no one else around- he stated that he was Madara.
Now, unless you're going to say he was lying to himself, I think that's pretty solid evidence. And it's not like he had to worry about Kabuto finding anything out by resurrecting her, since he already knew about his Edo Tensei.
Word of God (look it up on TV Tropes if you don't know what that means)
(My number one point)
We've been given a statement written by Kishimoto himself that Tobi and Madara are one and the same, with zero doubt or ambiguity in the 3rd Databook. Now, you may say "Well, the DBs don't tell us stuff before they happen", which is true. However, they never explicitly lie about something that is ambiguous or hasn't been fleshed out by Kishi yet. About all they do is slight revisions, such as Wood Release initially being a Hiden technique in the 2nd, then changed to a KKG in the 3rd; small stuff like that. More to the point, here are the contents of Madara's article and Tobi's article (as translated by ShounenSuki over on the Naruto wiki):
From Madara's article:
"Madara disappeared from history and, donning a mask, started moving as Tobi." (歴史から姿を消したマダラは、仮面を被り、トビとして動き出す。, Rekishi kara sugata o keshita Madara wa, kamen o kaburi, Tobi toshite ugokidasu.)
From Tobi's article:
"Uchiha Madara — That is Tobi's real name." (うちはマダラ——それがトビの本当の名前だ。, Uchiha Madara—— Sore ga Tobi no hontō no namae da.)
ShounenSuki has said that it would be very uncharacteristic of Kishimoto's writing style and the language itself to simply lie after making an absolute statement like that. And this was WAAAAYYYY back when the whole Tobi-Madara thing wasn't too clear.
To wrap up, I'm not saying with certainty that I know Tobi is Madara...somehow. I'm saying that even despite the resurrection, there's far too many connections, statements and oddities regarding the two to discount it. Rather, it makes far more sense to be him than some of the nonsense things I've seen on various forums, such as Fugaku, etc, which would make no sense or even be meaningful, with Obito being the dumbest of all theories.
Anyway, what are y'alls thoughts? Sorry for the looooonnnng post, I like to explain myself thoroughly. xDDD
). Anyway, this'll be my first thread, but don't discount it based on the title. There's more to the issue than you may think/know. I also apologize if this thread topic has been done a quintillion times.Okay, as we all know, Madara Uchiha was resurrected about a dozen chapters ago, so that completely blows out of the water this theory that Tobi is still somehow him? Well, not quite. Okay, so here we go:
The weakest point in my theory is that they both mention Nagato, specifically that he's suppose to use Gedo Rinne Tensei to resurrect him (Edo Madara) and for "my purposes" (Tobi). This isn't much, as it could simply indicate that Tobi was going to in fact have Nagato revive Madara as planned. Meh, ignore this point. My others are much better. He has also stated to have obtained Hashirama's DNA in his battle with him, stating that to be his reason for fighting him, which Edo Madara said as well.
Reputability
Okay, so there have been many characters in the series who believed the "Masked Man" in Akatsuki is Madara. Most of those that believed in that are some of the strongest and most intelligent ninja alive/to ever come out of their respective villages:
-Itachi
-Kakashi
-Konan
-Nagato (it seems)
-Kisame
-Minato (especially him)
It would be very odd for Kishi to essentially go "LOL, nope, you guys is wrong"
Now, I actually left some characters off that list for this point: previous encounters. Onoki had fought/knew Madara in the distant past, yet he never cast any real doubt on Tobi's claim, even when he met him in person, which is rather odd, and even he couldn't think of who else Tobi could be, though he did find it odd that Tobi was resorting to a rather roundabout method to obtain the Tailed Beasts.
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The biggest offender is Kurama, who has been controlled by both Madara and Tobi. He seemed to recognize Tobi (whether as Madara or simply familiarity, who knows), as when he spotted him, he said "You...".
Even Jiraiya, who had no knowledge of Akatsuki's "Masked Man" believed purely based off of Minato's seemingly rash actions and the sudden appearance of Kurama 16 years ago that Madara was the only person who could have done it.
You must be registered for see images
This part is just an example, not to be taken as what I believe happened, just kind of a thing I find suspect.
The chapter directly before Madara was revealed to be the summon in Kabuto's sixth coffin, Mu demonstrated to us a way for two being to be separate, yet equally real, his
You must be registered for see links
. Just some food for thought.Statements by Tobi Himself
Of course, Tobi's statements must be taken with a grain of salt, since some of them are half-truths (coercing Sasuke into his current state) and others downright lies (telling Sasuke he didn't bring Kurama to Konoha that day). However, this case was rather different. At the end of his fight with Konan -who I add he was about to kill and there was no one else around- he stated that he was Madara.
You must be registered for see images
Now, unless you're going to say he was lying to himself, I think that's pretty solid evidence. And it's not like he had to worry about Kabuto finding anything out by resurrecting her, since he already knew about his Edo Tensei.
Word of God (look it up on TV Tropes if you don't know what that means)
(My number one point)
We've been given a statement written by Kishimoto himself that Tobi and Madara are one and the same, with zero doubt or ambiguity in the 3rd Databook. Now, you may say "Well, the DBs don't tell us stuff before they happen", which is true. However, they never explicitly lie about something that is ambiguous or hasn't been fleshed out by Kishi yet. About all they do is slight revisions, such as Wood Release initially being a Hiden technique in the 2nd, then changed to a KKG in the 3rd; small stuff like that. More to the point, here are the contents of Madara's article and Tobi's article (as translated by ShounenSuki over on the Naruto wiki):
From Madara's article:
"Madara disappeared from history and, donning a mask, started moving as Tobi." (歴史から姿を消したマダラは、仮面を被り、トビとして動き出す。, Rekishi kara sugata o keshita Madara wa, kamen o kaburi, Tobi toshite ugokidasu.)
From Tobi's article:
"Uchiha Madara — That is Tobi's real name." (うちはマダラ——それがトビの本当の名前だ。, Uchiha Madara—— Sore ga Tobi no hontō no namae da.)
ShounenSuki has said that it would be very uncharacteristic of Kishimoto's writing style and the language itself to simply lie after making an absolute statement like that. And this was WAAAAYYYY back when the whole Tobi-Madara thing wasn't too clear.
To wrap up, I'm not saying with certainty that I know Tobi is Madara...somehow. I'm saying that even despite the resurrection, there's far too many connections, statements and oddities regarding the two to discount it. Rather, it makes far more sense to be him than some of the nonsense things I've seen on various forums, such as Fugaku, etc, which would make no sense or even be meaningful, with Obito being the dumbest of all theories.
Anyway, what are y'alls thoughts? Sorry for the looooonnnng post, I like to explain myself thoroughly. xDDD
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