And to add to the equation, itachi is an excellent kunai thrower and can even preform hands seals while throwing kunais at a high speed! There will be zero chance minato ftg kunai will get close enuff..
I like both and dislike both fans about the same (minato fans are the worst tho! Lol). But minato stands less chance of winning every time! It's a bad match up for him..
Fans need to realise fights are determined on match ups (and conditions), not whos better..
Good shit tho bruh! I support everything you mentioned. You killed them with the links tho! Haha I bet they didnt see that coming. Lmao
And to add to the equation, itachi is an excellent kunai thrower and can even preform hands seals while throwing kunais at a high speed! There will be zero chance minato ftg kunai will get close enuff..
I like both and dislike both fans about the same (minato fans are the worst tho! Lol). But minato stands less chance of winning every time! It's a bad match up for him..
Fans need to realise fights are determined on match ups (and conditions), not whos better..
Good shit tho bruh! I support everything you mentioned. You killed them with the links tho! Haha I bet they didnt see that coming. Lmao
Thanks, ive always wanted to end this debate.
The creation of a thread would make it easier now for me to just relax and send the link of this thread whenever i see such a verse thread. U_U
i still dont agree on half the things you stated, but you did go in depth on your theory. the fact still remain we know less about minato and the fact that we can place him with powerful opponets with only knowing what 3 tech? shows how good he is. i dont believe itachi will win this fight also just because itachi was able to beat orochumaru and deidra who later trained his eye to become immune to genjutsu is not minato. so the A>B B>C so A>C isnt true. besides we still havnt seen the stats from minato, this battle will remain to be continued. but for what you did +rep
Also your forgetting Minato s/t tech so goodbye amatursu, the sealing blade idk it depends who has the best seal and we just have to wait to find out. the only thing itachi has is genjutsu because any physical attacks would become useless agaisnt minato s/t. so its a 50/50 chance itachi can pull it off regardless...
What i will like to say first of all is that im going to explain 3 scenarios.
The first one being genjutsu rendering ftg useless thus minato is vulnerable to real life attacks.
In all these instances, its bloodlust, meaning both characters can use their strongest attacks to finish of the match and from what we have seen from itachi's he isnt afraid to use the ms from the get of
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After all what we have seen from both, they like to end their matches pretty quickly.
Scenario 1, ftg useless under genjutsu;
From what we know both characters a close range fighters as seen in all their fights. They arent long range fighters like gaara, diedora, etc.....
Now in all of itachi's fights he has used genjutsu from the start. He has demonstrated 3 forms of simple genjutsu.
The first one being a paralyses genjutsu he used on oro;
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Oro who has a 5/5 and a genius was caught in a paralyses genjutsu. When he was about to dispell it he got his hand cut. Itachi shouldve amaterasu'ed the bastard or cut of his head instead of his hand. As you can see genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.
Madara has demonstrated a similar paraylses genjutsu which again render the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks;
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Kurenai arugable konoha's best genjutsu user, tried a genjutsu on itachi and itachu countered it and put her in a state where she had to play the defensive;
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Even though itachi countered the genjutsu, since kurenai is the one who utilised it she already knew that she was in a genjutsu and dispelled it. Even after she dispelled it in time she was vulnerable to a real life attack;
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In the link above as i said kurenai was vulnerable to real life attack. She did break the genjutsu in time since she created it and she knew she was in one, but the most important this is that she even though she blocked itachi's kick, it showed us that not even her was able to dispel it in time and evade that kick at all. Now if this was bloodlust itachi he couldve amaterasu'd her instead tried to kick her in the face
The next genjutsu itachi has displayed is a genjutsu that is so real that, the user doesnt even know that he is in one as demonstrated with deidora. In the genjutsu everything in the real world was exactly the same, including the setting. This is what fooled deidora.
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Deidora was fooled from the start because the genjutsu was so real. As you also saw he nearly blew himself up in the real world. Again genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.
The third genjutsu itachi has shown us is when he can burst into crows at will. He has demonstrated to be able to do this in real life but also in a genjutsu.
Genjutsu crow;
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After their genjutsu duel, the real life battle started and even then itachi could still burst into crows in real life at will;
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As i said both fighters are short range/mid range fighters and ill show you links to demonstrate this. Ive already shown you two links of itachi being a short range fighter and this was him vs oro and him vs deidora. Notice the distance between him and his opponent, then notice the distance between minato and his opponents.
More images of itachi being a short range fighter;
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Now ill show links of minato being a short range fighter. Its actually obvious because in all his fights, either in the war or against A or tobi, he has used ftg to in close in order to use a kunai or ransegan. Either way ill show you links;
Notice the space gap between him and tobi;
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Similarly the space gap between him and A and notice the time he spams ftg kunai's
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From what weve have seen both are short/mid range fighters. In all of itachi's encounters he has used genjutsu from the start. What im trying to say is that, tack tobi/A out of the picture and include itachi instead. The chances are minato would be in a genjutsu from the start even before he can spam ftg kunai.
Once in a genjutsu as i said he is vulnerable to attacks. In order for him to use ftg he has to dispell the genjutsu that same second or else in that second it takes him to try and get out of a paralyses genjutsu or a genjutsu that seems so real that, he doesnt know that he is in one, itachi can use any technique he wants in real life to end the fight.
Ill give you two scenario's of other genjuitsu's itachi has demonstrated that copied the real life so much that it fooled his opponents. They didnt even know that they were in a genjutsu;
Genjustu was so real naruto thought it was real life;
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In the link below itachi saying wont/cannot use the ms on naruto, due to him being a 30% clone or because he obviously doenst want to physical hurt/capture naruto. This link proves that if itachi really wanted to hurt naruto and he wasnt a 30% clone, he couldve easily used the ms on him in real life because he is vulnerable to real life attacks, as ive proved earlier;
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Similar sasuke got caught in a genjutsu that seemed so real that it fooled him;
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In all the links above ive showed yout that both are close range fighters. Also showed you that itachi can make either paralysis his opponents and with this are vulnerable to real life attacks, but also he can make his genjutsu so real that his opponents wouldnt even know that they are in one. Minato would be caught in a genjutsu even before he spams his ftg, whilst in this genjutsu and he doesnt realise, he is vulnerable to real life attacks.
This can be amaterasu, tsukuyomi, cut minato's hand off the same way he did to oro or seal him with the totsuka sword in real life whilst he is still trying to figure out whether he is a genjutsu or not. Or him in the process of trying to dispell the genjutsu.
Talking about the totsuka sword. Poepl underestimate its speed. It caught both oro and nagato in the middle of a speech. Similar in the process of minato trying to dispel the genjutsu, it will also pierce him;
Similarly like oro didnt finish his sentence, minato wouldnt dispell the genjutsu
in tell to avoid to avoid the totsuka sword in real life;
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From the moment ct was destroyed, the sword had already peirced nagato. Similarly even before minato can try to either figure out that he is in a genjutsu or has realised and is trying to dispell it, the sword wouldve pierced him in real life even before he can dispell the genjutsu;
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Now that we know both are short/mid range fighter and we know that itachi uses genjutsu from the start. The question who do you think will be able to make the first move. The person who can catch you in a genjutsu with merely a finger, his body or his eyes or somebody who has to spam ftg tags around the area. Think its fair to say that minato would be in a genjutsu before he can most likely throw the first kunai or in the middle or spamming it.
The next question is once in a genjutsu that seems so real that he doesnt even know he is in one, how long will it take him before he realises and tried to dispel it.
If he is a paralysis genjutsu its even harder to dispel it because it paralysis the opponent. Even before he can dispell itachi couldve attacked and ended this fight, like the way he has done to ninja's above.
Alot of minato fans know this and say minato is either immune to genjutsu, he can fight long range because itachi's genjutsu ios short range. Ill tear that claim in peices, starting with minato is immune to genjutsu.
Alot of people say kage level ninja's are immune to genjutsu. Allow me to destroy not only that myth but the myth about genjutsu immunity totally.
Sarutobi a hokage getting put into genjutsu by the first hokage;
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Clearly he isnt immune to it.
Real life attacks;
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The 2nd mizukage, killed muu the 2nd tsuckage, the 2nd miukage is a genjutsu user and i have no doubt in my mind that this helped him defeat muu, both died though;
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There is also a myth around jinchircki;s being immune to genjutsu. What i will tell you know if you havent realised about naruto is that there is no such thing as invincible, immune, immortal, invisible and although minato isnt a jinchrucki i want to show you that if genjutsu works on a perfect jinchricki, its working on minato.
The 4th mizukage who was also said to be a perfect jinckrucki was controlled in a genjutsu by tobi;
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Bee was caught in a genjutsu by sasuke. It affected him as we see him on the floor but he later broke it and countered sasuke;
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Unlike sasuke, itachi actually successfully caught bee in it again;
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Now elite genjutsu user have been caught in genjutsu (kurenai, sasuke and itachi), kage level ninja's have been caught in genjutsu (oro was a hokage candidate, sarutobi, muu, itachi), geniuses have been caught in genjutsu ( sarutobi, itachi, oro), jinchrucki have been caught in genjutsu (yagura, bee), Sharigan users have been caught in genjutsu (kakashi, itachi sasuke). If in all these scenario's a these people have caught how can you possibly say minato is immune when not even the people ive named above are immune to it.
Read this thread if you want to know how dumb some minato fans are; (
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Another thing minato fans have said is that minato can stay away from itachi around (70 yards) and throw ftg kunai. They say that because they believe this way minato will not be caught in genjutsu because they believe itachi's genjutsu is short range. Not only are they being ignorant because itachi has displayed long range genjutsu but also in the manga AO says that itachi can produce long range genjutsu. Ill show you images of itachi using long range genjutsu, but also the link of Ao claims.
What people fail to realise is that before itachi met with naruto and sasuke during their pursit of him the real itachi was already at the uchiha hideout waiting for sasuke. The itachi that faced naruto and sasuke were kage bunshins, what people fail to realise is that kage bunshins can use the original techniques as naruto;s clones has showed us several times.
The itachi that put naruto in a genjutsu was a kage bunshin;
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Its this same kage bunshin that met put sasuke in a genjutsu then told him to come to the hideout;
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In the link below, sasuke finally reaches the hidout, where the real itachi was there waiting for him;
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Ao and shukaku talking;
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What minato fans either dont get or refuse to believe is that, once in a genjutsu (illusion), minato has to dispel it, before he can actually come back to real life and spam ftg tags.
In the first scenario if comes down to who would make the first move.
Itachi who genjutsu comes to him easy or minato who can spam ftg tags?. Personally i believe itachi.
The second senario would be me assuming minato has full knowledge of itachi's techniques therefore he doesnt look into his eyes when he fights and instead his feet
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Therefore he avoids eye contact, what they fail to get is that itachi doesnt even need eye contact as ive said above and demonstrated this with manga links.
There are many things wrond with this stragety. Firstly itachi doesnt need eye contact but also it leaves the opponent vulnerable to amaterasu as the link below would explain;
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How would minato know that he is about to get amateru'ed, if he cannot see above itachi's chin, as this link proves;
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Now if minato is looking at itachi's eyes he would no doubt be able to evade amaterasu, but if he cannot see it he cannot evade it. You cannot evade something you cannot see.
A was able to see sasuke's eyes and evade it;
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If minato is looking at his feet he cannot evade it as ive said, in order to evade it you have to be able to see it. As ive demonstrated minato either has to face the fact that he has look into itachi's eyes and fight, therefore tsukuyomi is on the card. If he decides to use gai's counter, its useless because itachi can still use genjutsu but also, he would be able to use amaterasu.
So how would minato fight this one.
Now what minato fans forget is that minato doesnt have infinite ftg kunai's he would run out of kunai's to through depending on how many he has. Minato fans say he would stand 70 yards and spam kunai, what they forget is that even if itachi's doenst know of ftg, if somebody throws a kunai at you you would obviously counter it. What i would also say is that if itachi can counter the kunai's even before it gets half way between him and minato, he is out of range of the ftg kunai's.
Do i believe itachi can counter all those kunai's?, off course. He is arguably the best kunai/shuriken thrower in the series.
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Minato fans say he would avoid close range due to genjutsu and spam ftg from long range. Well itachi's genjutsu are long range, but also those ftg kunai's wouldnt reach him because as ive showed you he would counter all of them even before it reaches him.
Now if does try close range, he would be an easier target for genjutsu but again his ftg tags would be countered.
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In long range its a pointless fight for minato, In short range he has a chance but also pointless because, ftg kunai's would be countered but also genjutsu is on the cards.
Whilst itachi is countering minato's kunai's he has shown to be so fast with handseals that he can counter every kunai and create a clone
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If minato was to rasengan itachi its highly possible that he will disperse into a flock of frows and tsukuyomi;
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Scenario 2 summary. In close range itachi has the advantage as ive described in scenario 1. In scenario 2 were minato has knowledge of itachi's techs and avoid close range and chooses long range as minat fans say, he is still as a disadvantage because at long range ftg kunai's would be countered even easier, he can still be put under genjutsu. If he tries gai's counter to the sharigan, he is vulnerable to amaterasu and if he chooses to ignore gai's counter and fight whilst looking at itachi, he can evade amaterasu but all of itachi;s other techniques/genjutsu will affect him regardless.
The final scenario is that both have full knowledge of each others techniques.
How would he fight, becaue in senario 1 its close range he is at a disadvantage as its shwoed you. In long range he is also at a disadvantage as ive showed you even if he has info on itachi.
Now if itachi can counter all of those ftg tags and isnt in range of him, minato doesnt have an ftg tag close to itachi to teleport to him and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite ftg kunai. Meaning once all those kunai's have been countered and itachi is out of range of the ftg seals, does it come down to a true fight, since minato wouldnt be given the time to try and regain his ftg kunai in order to spam it again.
Once he has finished with his kunai's and the tag still isnt in range of itachi, he has to fight using his base speed. To all the minato fans out there he didnt get his nickname, yellow flash due to his base speed but rather ftg
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Now what people seem to forget is that his base speed in high speed movement. Shunshin no jutsu as ive been said several times. Majority of ninja's who have high speed movement use this technique. I'll decode the difference betwee minato base speed, ftg and A's raiton armour.
Now A also uses shunshin (body flciker), but his body flicker isnt as fast as base minato. Its still fast as zetsu said. This is base A vs base minato.
Base A is noted to be very fast as Zetsu said;
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Still not fast enough against minato's base speed even if both use the shunshin no jutsu.
A in v1 raiton is the same speed as base minato, because he combines his shunshin no jutsu with raiton, whilst in minato's case its just shunshin but minato's shunshin as ive said is faster therefore the combination of A is shunsin and raiton v1 makes it on par with it.
As madara said, the lightning release body flicker;
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In v1 A and minato's base speed are the same. In v2 his speed is faster than minato. He has heard of A and has acknwloedged his speed;
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Thats why in the next page he decided to spam ftg, because A went v2 straight away and minato's base speed isnt as on par with v2, whilst ftg is faster than v2.
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Its because of ftg that allowed him to evade it;
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Basically what im trying to say is that;
Minato's shunshin (base speed)> A (base speed)
Minato's base speed = A raiton v1
A raiton v2 > minato's base speed
Ftg > A v2 raiton
Now that we have already established that in the 3 rd senario if itachi counters all the ftg kunai's and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite amount, he would have to fight using his base speed, especially if his ftg kunai's are out of itachi's range. Neither will he have the time to go on his kees and try to recover some of his ftg kunai's to use again. Therefore whilst he can use his base speed for offence, he can use ftg for defence because he can teleport back to where those kunai's are, but then again genjutsu is available to itachi to use if minato's teleports back to where the kunais are. That of course on how which stragety he plans on using against itachi. Looking at his feet and being amaterasu'ed or looking at his eyes and the possibility of tsukuyomi?.
Anyway now that we have seen that minato's base speed = A v1 raiton, although its still fast i can see itachi living with him.
Sasuke was able to keep up with A in v1 raiton, but also wound him.
This shows sasuke's speed (4.5/5) and reflexes ability
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Sasuke's reflexes and speed is great but not compared to itachi's. Although able to evade be's assault, he still got wounded;
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Now there is a reason why itachi has a 5/5 for speed in the data book. His reflexes and speed is greater than sasuke's.
Able to keep up with km naruto;
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Evaded both him and bee's attack;
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Evaded the same attack sasuke did, but in his case he wasnt injured at all;
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Now, im not saying itachi base = minato's base. What im saying is that he himself is no slow turtule. He has demonstrated many speed feats in the manga and deserves kishi rating of a 5/5 for speed. His speed and reflexes are faster than sasuke's.
Now bee was able to counter ftg in time in the sense that he had a knife at minato's belly.
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Now im not saying base itachi speed is ftg speed, but in this image bee wasnt able to counter the same way he did to minato;
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If itachi can get out of reach of those ftg kunai's, afterall if those kunai's do not reach the target minato also doesnt meaning that minato has to use his base speed as his main offence and ftg as his defence because at least he can teleport back to where his ftg markings are, itachi has a great chance to win this, because even if he does teleport back to where the tags are, itachi's genjutsu is long range, he still has ways to attack minato whilst minato doesnt. Not to forget he either has to chose to look at itachi's feet when he fights therefoer amarasu is on the card, If he doesnt and looks in his eyes tsukuyomis is on the card. If itachi can counter all those ftg tags and leave enough space between himself and those tags, im sure he can deal with minato's base speed not to forget he is at the advantage due to minato either not looking into his eyes or looking into his eyes. He still has long and short range attacks. In the form of defence, he can create a clone, that if gets hit he disperse. He still has susano if needed.
Minato fans are clearly biting more than they can chew, calling me out. successfully champion scenario 1. Doubt anybody would get past it LOGICALLY let alone 2 and even 3. You minato fans are clearly biting more than you can chew, running before you can walk.
This isnt a vs thread. Its just for my convenience in future debates.
If you plan on debating feel free but if it isnt worthy of a responce ill ignore it
OK well let me start off by saying that these are my two favorite characters in the manga, (which usually gets me alot of grief from all sides because there are so many haters of both).
Ok Blaze Release, your scenario 1 is the most likely to happen. Genjutsu is what makes Itachi such a force to be reckoned with, (that and his MS abilities). I think Itachi would win but I honestly think that his victory would only come from a genjutsu.
You kind of ignored some of Minato's positive attributes.
You didn't once mention Minato's summons. If Minato wasn't caught right off the bat in a genjutsu then his summons would likely play a big part in this battle as he can use long range attacks with them.
So there is that, and you didn't mention his ST barriers. You admitted that Minato was faster, so if he were to get out of a regular genjutsu in time, he could make a ST barrier to deflect any incoming attacks. However that relies on him getting out of the genjutsu in time.
Another area where you are wrong is him running out of FTG tags. He can tag anything he puts his hand on. He can tag a person, a rock, a tree, anything. Not only that but he can use multishadow clone on his kunai, like Hiruzen did with his shuriken.
So do I think Itachi would win? Yes, because his genjutsu is too good. There are very few people who can successfully counter genjutsu of Itachi's level.
However in the off chance that Minato does not get caught in a genjutsu I can see him pulling off the win. Minato has too many ways to dodge Itachi's moves.
Oh another thing I almost forgot, when you say counter the FTG kunai, what do you mean? Because if you mean knock them away from Itachi, well than that is not the point of Minato spreading around his FTG kunai. It is to give him a large number of places to teleport in the battlefield to escape/attack from.
So if Itachi "countered" Minato's FTG kunai, then all that would happen is that the kunai would fall in different spots than Minato threw them, which wouldn't hurt his usage of FTG at all. You get my point? FTG is not a direct attack, it is a means of setting up attacks, and either way those kunai will be there for him to teleport to.
Anyway back to my conclusion. I think Itachi would win through the use of a genjutsu followed up with a finishing move. However if Minato is not caught in a genjutsu right off the bat I can't see Itachi hitting him, because Minato is too fast in base speed, and can use FTG to dodge, and most of Itachi's moves are chakra consuming, so Itachi would be forced to use taijutsu which would be foolhardy against Minato.
If Minato gets caught in a genjutsu, Itachi wins.
If not, Minato wins.
OK well let me start off by saying that these are my two favorite characters in the manga, (which usually gets me alot of grief from all sides because there are so many haters of both).
Ok Blaze Release, your scenario 1 is the most likely to happen. Genjutsu is what makes Itachi such a force to be reckoned with, (that and his MS abilities). I think Itachi would win but I honestly think that his victory would only come from a genjutsu.
You kind of ignored some of Minato's positive attributes.
You didn't once mention Minato's summons. If Minato wasn't caught right off the bat in a genjutsu then his summons would likely play a big part in this battle as he can use long range attacks with them.
So there is that, and you didn't mention his ST barriers. You admitted that Minato was faster, so if he were to get out of a regular genjutsu in time, he could make a ST barrier to deflect any incoming attacks. However that relies on him getting out of the genjutsu in time.
Another area where you are wrong is him running out of FTG tags. He can tag anything he puts his hand on. He can tag a person, a rock, a tree, anything. Not only that but he can use multishadow clone on his kunai, like Hiruzen did with his shuriken.
So do I think Itachi would win? Yes, because his genjutsu is too good. There are very few people who can successfully counter genjutsu of Itachi's level.
However in the off chance that Minato does not get caught in a genjutsu I can see him pulling off the win. Minato has too many ways to dodge Itachi's moves.
Oh another thing I almost forgot, when you say counter the FTG kunai, what do you mean? Because if you mean knock them away from Itachi, well than that is not the point of Minato spreading around his FTG kunai. It is to give him a large number of places to teleport in the battlefield to escape/attack from.
So if Itachi "countered" Minato's FTG kunai, then all that would happen is that the kunai would fall in different spots than Minato threw them, which wouldn't hurt his usage of FTG at all. You get my point? FTG is not a direct attack, it is a means of setting up attacks, and either way those kunai will be there for him to teleport to.
Anyway back to my conclusion. I think Itachi would win through the use of a genjutsu followed up with a finishing move. However if Minato is not caught in a genjutsu right off the bat I can't see Itachi hitting him, because Minato is too fast in base speed, and can use FTG to dodge, and most of Itachi's moves are chakra consuming, so Itachi would be forced to use taijutsu which would be foolhardy against Minato.
If Minato gets caught in a genjutsu, Itachi wins.
If not, Minato wins.
I am quite glad that another person can defend minato's side as it seems that jumping on the itachi bandwagon seems so easy when everyone calls you a minato fanboy whenever you mention that he has even the slightest chance of winning.
Don't get me wrong I am not a fanboy of any of these two and I can come up with some pretty decent facts and justifiable explanations for both of them myself, its just that this is only a theoretical battle that we can only guess what might happen. As these two are high-class shinobi, I think that either are capable of winning this battle. However, I will not post my beliefs on who will win as it would be pointless in a thread such as this.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and bashing on other peoples ideas is rather pointless unless it has no factual basis.
OK well let me start off by saying that these are my two favorite characters in the manga, (which usually gets me alot of grief from all sides because there are so many haters of both).
Ok Blaze Release, your scenario 1 is the most likely to happen. Genjutsu is what makes Itachi such a force to be reckoned with, (that and his MS abilities). I think Itachi would win but I honestly think that his victory would only come from a genjutsu.
You kind of ignored some of Minato's positive attributes.
You didn't once mention Minato's summons. If Minato wasn't caught right off the bat in a genjutsu then his summons would likely play a big part in this battle as he can use long range attacks with them.
So there is that, and you didn't mention his ST barriers. You admitted that Minato was faster, so if he were to get out of a regular genjutsu in time, he could make a ST barrier to deflect any incoming attacks. However that relies on him getting out of the genjutsu in time.
Another area where you are wrong is him running out of FTG tags. He can tag anything he puts his hand on. He can tag a person, a rock, a tree, anything. Not only that but he can use multishadow clone on his kunai, like Hiruzen did with his shuriken.
So do I think Itachi would win? Yes, because his genjutsu is too good. There are very few people who can successfully counter genjutsu of Itachi's level.
However in the off chance that Minato does not get caught in a genjutsu I can see him pulling off the win. Minato has too many ways to dodge Itachi's moves.
Oh another thing I almost forgot, when you say counter the FTG kunai, what do you mean? Because if you mean knock them away from Itachi, well than that is not the point of Minato spreading around his FTG kunai. It is to give him a large number of places to teleport in the battlefield to escape/attack from.
So if Itachi "countered" Minato's FTG kunai, then all that would happen is that the kunai would fall in different spots than Minato threw them, which wouldn't hurt his usage of FTG at all. You get my point? FTG is not a direct attack, it is a means of setting up attacks, and either way those kunai will be there for him to teleport to.
Anyway back to my conclusion. I think Itachi would win through the use of a genjutsu followed up with a finishing move. However if Minato is not caught in a genjutsu right off the bat I can't see Itachi hitting him, because Minato is too fast in base speed, and can use FTG to dodge, and most of Itachi's moves are chakra consuming, so Itachi would be forced to use taijutsu which would be foolhardy against Minato.
If Minato gets caught in a genjutsu, Itachi wins.
If not, Minato wins.
i also believe the only chance itachi has in winning this fight is genjutsu, but contrary to what you said i think minato would win. difference in opinion is what keeps debate so good. i like how you didnt use any bias and you accepted his theory while adding your own +rep
i also believe the only chance itachi has in winning this fight is genjutsu, but contrary to what you said i think minato would win. difference in opinion is what keeps debate so good. i like how you didnt use any bias and you accepted his theory while adding your own +rep
Thanks! There is so much unknown about Minato that we can't ever count him out of a battle, but Itachi's genjutsu is easily the best in the manga so it would be very hard for him to break it.
They both are the absolute best at what they do, sealing and space-time and genjutsu and the sharingan respectively.
That is why I always put these two as equal, along with Nagato.
As an addition,Itachi would do just fine with Minato's base speed with Sharingan precognition,and he can predict when Minato will use FTG with seeing right through his internal chakra.(when Minato was gathering it).Killer Bee anticipated and countered FTG anyway,Itachi with better insight can certainly do so.
I disagree that Minato would warp various things back at Itachi because he he had a whole
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of preparation across the city. It's just not feasible for Amaterasu or the Totsuka.
And Gamabunta and other toads get manipulated via Sharingan.
What i will like to say first of all is that im going to explain 3 scenarios.
The first one being genjutsu rendering ftg useless thus minato is vulnerable to real life attacks.
In all these instances, its bloodlust, meaning both characters can use their strongest attacks to finish of the match and from what we have seen from itachi's he isnt afraid to use the ms from the get of
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After all what we have seen from both, they like to end their matches pretty quickly.
Scenario 1, ftg useless under genjutsu;
From what we know both characters a close range fighters as seen in all their fights. They arent long range fighters like gaara, diedora, etc.....
Now in all of itachi's fights he has used genjutsu from the start. He has demonstrated 3 forms of simple genjutsu.
The first one being a paralyses genjutsu he used on oro;
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Oro who has a 5/5 and a genius was caught in a paralyses genjutsu. When he was about to dispell it he got his hand cut. Itachi shouldve amaterasu'ed the bastard or cut of his head instead of his hand. As you can see genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.
Madara has demonstrated a similar paraylses genjutsu which again render the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks;
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Kurenai arugable konoha's best genjutsu user, tried a genjutsu on itachi and itachu countered it and put her in a state where she had to play the defensive;
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Even though itachi countered the genjutsu, since kurenai is the one who utilised it she already knew that she was in a genjutsu and dispelled it. Even after she dispelled it in time she was vulnerable to a real life attack;
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In the link above as i said kurenai was vulnerable to real life attack. She did break the genjutsu in time since she created it and she knew she was in one, but the most important this is that she even though she blocked itachi's kick, it showed us that not even her was able to dispel it in time and evade that kick at all. Now if this was bloodlust itachi he couldve amaterasu'd her instead tried to kick her in the face
The next genjutsu itachi has displayed is a genjutsu that is so real that, the user doesnt even know that he is in one as demonstrated with deidora. In the genjutsu everything in the real world was exactly the same, including the setting. This is what fooled deidora.
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Deidora was fooled from the start because the genjutsu was so real. As you also saw he nearly blew himself up in the real world. Again genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.
The third genjutsu itachi has shown us is when he can burst into crows at will. He has demonstrated to be able to do this in real life but also in a genjutsu.
Genjutsu crow;
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After their genjutsu duel, the real life battle started and even then itachi could still burst into crows in real life at will;
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As i said both fighters are short range/mid range fighters and ill show you links to demonstrate this. Ive already shown you two links of itachi being a short range fighter and this was him vs oro and him vs deidora. Notice the distance between him and his opponent, then notice the distance between minato and his opponents.
More images of itachi being a short range fighter;
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Now ill show links of minato being a short range fighter. Its actually obvious because in all his fights, either in the war or against A or tobi, he has used ftg to in close in order to use a kunai or ransegan. Either way ill show you links;
Notice the space gap between him and tobi;
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Similarly the space gap between him and A and notice the time he spams ftg kunai's
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From what weve have seen both are short/mid range fighters. In all of itachi's encounters he has used genjutsu from the start. What im trying to say is that, tack tobi/A out of the picture and include itachi instead. The chances are minato would be in a genjutsu from the start even before he can spam ftg kunai.
Once in a genjutsu as i said he is vulnerable to attacks. In order for him to use ftg he has to dispell the genjutsu that same second or else in that second it takes him to try and get out of a paralyses genjutsu or a genjutsu that seems so real that, he doesnt know that he is in one, itachi can use any technique he wants in real life to end the fight.
Ill give you two scenario's of other genjuitsu's itachi has demonstrated that copied the real life so much that it fooled his opponents. They didnt even know that they were in a genjutsu;
Genjustu was so real naruto thought it was real life;
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In the link below itachi saying wont/cannot use the ms on naruto, due to him being a 30% clone or because he obviously doenst want to physical hurt/capture naruto. This link proves that if itachi really wanted to hurt naruto and he wasnt a 30% clone, he couldve easily used the ms on him in real life because he is vulnerable to real life attacks, as ive proved earlier;
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Similar sasuke got caught in a genjutsu that seemed so real that it fooled him;
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In all the links above ive showed yout that both are close range fighters. Also showed you that itachi can make either paralysis his opponents and with this are vulnerable to real life attacks, but also he can make his genjutsu so real that his opponents wouldnt even know that they are in one. Minato would be caught in a genjutsu even before he spams his ftg, whilst in this genjutsu and he doesnt realise, he is vulnerable to real life attacks.
This can be amaterasu, tsukuyomi, cut minato's hand off the same way he did to oro or seal him with the totsuka sword in real life whilst he is still trying to figure out whether he is a genjutsu or not. Or him in the process of trying to dispell the genjutsu.
Talking about the totsuka sword. Poepl underestimate its speed. It caught both oro and nagato in the middle of a speech. Similar in the process of minato trying to dispel the genjutsu, it will also pierce him;
Similarly like oro didnt finish his sentence, minato wouldnt dispell the genjutsu
in tell to avoid to avoid the totsuka sword in real life;
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From the moment ct was destroyed, the sword had already peirced nagato. Similarly even before minato can try to either figure out that he is in a genjutsu or has realised and is trying to dispell it, the sword wouldve pierced him in real life even before he can dispell the genjutsu;
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Now that we know both are short/mid range fighter and we know that itachi uses genjutsu from the start. The question who do you think will be able to make the first move. The person who can catch you in a genjutsu with merely a finger, his body or his eyes or somebody who has to spam ftg tags around the area. Think its fair to say that minato would be in a genjutsu before he can most likely throw the first kunai or in the middle or spamming it.
The next question is once in a genjutsu that seems so real that he doesnt even know he is in one, how long will it take him before he realises and tried to dispel it.
If he is a paralysis genjutsu its even harder to dispel it because it paralysis the opponent. Even before he can dispell itachi couldve attacked and ended this fight, like the way he has done to ninja's above.
Alot of minato fans know this and say minato is either immune to genjutsu, he can fight long range because itachi's genjutsu ios short range. Ill tear that claim in peices, starting with minato is immune to genjutsu.
Alot of people say kage level ninja's are immune to genjutsu. Allow me to destroy not only that myth but the myth about genjutsu immunity totally.
Sarutobi a hokage getting put into genjutsu by the first hokage;
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Clearly he isnt immune to it.
Real life attacks;
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The 2nd mizukage, killed muu the 2nd tsuckage, the 2nd miukage is a genjutsu user and i have no doubt in my mind that this helped him defeat muu, both died though;
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There is also a myth around jinchircki;s being immune to genjutsu. What i will tell you know if you havent realised about naruto is that there is no such thing as invincible, immune, immortal, invisible and although minato isnt a jinchrucki i want to show you that if genjutsu works on a perfect jinchricki, its working on minato.
The 4th mizukage who was also said to be a perfect jinckrucki was controlled in a genjutsu by tobi;
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Bee was caught in a genjutsu by sasuke. It affected him as we see him on the floor but he later broke it and countered sasuke;
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Unlike sasuke, itachi actually successfully caught bee in it again;
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Now elite genjutsu user have been caught in genjutsu (kurenai, sasuke and itachi), kage level ninja's have been caught in genjutsu (oro was a hokage candidate, sarutobi, muu, itachi), geniuses have been caught in genjutsu ( sarutobi, itachi, oro), jinchrucki have been caught in genjutsu (yagura, bee), Sharigan users have been caught in genjutsu (kakashi, itachi sasuke). If in all these scenario's a these people have caught how can you possibly say minato is immune when not even the people ive named above are immune to it.
Read this thread if you want to know how dumb some minato fans are; (
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)
Another thing minato fans have said is that minato can stay away from itachi around (70 yards) and throw ftg kunai. They say that because they believe this way minato will not be caught in genjutsu because they believe itachi's genjutsu is short range. Not only are they being ignorant because itachi has displayed long range genjutsu but also in the manga AO says that itachi can produce long range genjutsu. Ill show you images of itachi using long range genjutsu, but also the link of Ao claims.
What people fail to realise is that before itachi met with naruto and sasuke during their pursit of him the real itachi was already at the uchiha hideout waiting for sasuke. The itachi that faced naruto and sasuke were kage bunshins, what people fail to realise is that kage bunshins can use the original techniques as naruto;s clones has showed us several times.
The itachi that put naruto in a genjutsu was a kage bunshin;
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Its this same kage bunshin that met put sasuke in a genjutsu then told him to come to the hideout;
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In the link below, sasuke finally reaches the hidout, where the real itachi was there waiting for him;
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Ao and shukaku talking;
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What minato fans either dont get or refuse to believe is that, once in a genjutsu (illusion), minato has to dispel it, before he can actually come back to real life and spam ftg tags.
In the first scenario if comes down to who would make the first move.
Itachi who genjutsu comes to him easy or minato who can spam ftg tags?. Personally i believe itachi.
The second senario would be me assuming minato has full knowledge of itachi's techniques therefore he doesnt look into his eyes when he fights and instead his feet
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[/IMG]
Therefore he avoids eye contact, what they fail to get is that itachi doesnt even need eye contact as ive said above and demonstrated this with manga links.
There are many things wrond with this stragety. Firstly itachi doesnt need eye contact but also it leaves the opponent vulnerable to amaterasu as the link below would explain;
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How would minato know that he is about to get amateru'ed, if he cannot see above itachi's chin, as this link proves;
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Now if minato is looking at itachi's eyes he would no doubt be able to evade amaterasu, but if he cannot see it he cannot evade it. You cannot evade something you cannot see.
A was able to see sasuke's eyes and evade it;
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If minato is looking at his feet he cannot evade it as ive said, in order to evade it you have to be able to see it. As ive demonstrated minato either has to face the fact that he has look into itachi's eyes and fight, therefore tsukuyomi is on the card. If he decides to use gai's counter, its useless because itachi can still use genjutsu but also, he would be able to use amaterasu.
So how would minato fight this one.
Now what minato fans forget is that minato doesnt have infinite ftg kunai's he would run out of kunai's to through depending on how many he has. Minato fans say he would stand 70 yards and spam kunai, what they forget is that even if itachi's doenst know of ftg, if somebody throws a kunai at you you would obviously counter it. What i would also say is that if itachi can counter the kunai's even before it gets half way between him and minato, he is out of range of the ftg kunai's.
Do i believe itachi can counter all those kunai's?, off course. He is arguably the best kunai/shuriken thrower in the series.
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Minato fans say he would avoid close range due to genjutsu and spam ftg from long range. Well itachi's genjutsu are long range, but also those ftg kunai's wouldnt reach him because as ive showed you he would counter all of them even before it reaches him.
Now if does try close range, he would be an easier target for genjutsu but again his ftg tags would be countered.
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In long range its a pointless fight for minato, In short range he has a chance but also pointless because, ftg kunai's would be countered but also genjutsu is on the cards.
Whilst itachi is countering minato's kunai's he has shown to be so fast with handseals that he can counter every kunai and create a clone
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If minato was to rasengan itachi its highly possible that he will disperse into a flock of frows and tsukuyomi;
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Scenario 2 summary. In close range itachi has the advantage as ive described in scenario 1. In scenario 2 were minato has knowledge of itachi's techs and avoid close range and chooses long range as minat fans say, he is still as a disadvantage because at long range ftg kunai's would be countered even easier, he can still be put under genjutsu. If he tries gai's counter to the sharigan, he is vulnerable to amaterasu and if he chooses to ignore gai's counter and fight whilst looking at itachi, he can evade amaterasu but all of itachi;s other techniques/genjutsu will affect him regardless.
The final scenario is that both have full knowledge of each others techniques.
How would he fight, becaue in senario 1 its close range he is at a disadvantage as its shwoed you. In long range he is also at a disadvantage as ive showed you even if he has info on itachi.
Now if itachi can counter all of those ftg tags and isnt in range of him, minato doesnt have an ftg tag close to itachi to teleport to him and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite ftg kunai. Meaning once all those kunai's have been countered and itachi is out of range of the ftg seals, does it come down to a true fight, since minato wouldnt be given the time to try and regain his ftg kunai in order to spam it again.
Once he has finished with his kunai's and the tag still isnt in range of itachi, he has to fight using his base speed. To all the minato fans out there he didnt get his nickname, yellow flash due to his base speed but rather ftg
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.
Now what people seem to forget is that his base speed in high speed movement. Shunshin no jutsu as ive been said several times. Majority of ninja's who have high speed movement use this technique. I'll decode the difference betwee minato base speed, ftg and A's raiton armour.
Now A also uses shunshin (body flciker), but his body flicker isnt as fast as base minato. Its still fast as zetsu said. This is base A vs base minato.
Base A is noted to be very fast as Zetsu said;
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Still not fast enough against minato's base speed even if both use the shunshin no jutsu.
A in v1 raiton is the same speed as base minato, because he combines his shunshin no jutsu with raiton, whilst in minato's case its just shunshin but minato's shunshin as ive said is faster therefore the combination of A is shunsin and raiton v1 makes it on par with it.
As madara said, the lightning release body flicker;
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In v1 A and minato's base speed are the same. In v2 his speed is faster than minato. He has heard of A and has acknwloedged his speed;
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Thats why in the next page he decided to spam ftg, because A went v2 straight away and minato's base speed isnt as on par with v2, whilst ftg is faster than v2.
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Its because of ftg that allowed him to evade it;
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Basically what im trying to say is that;
Minato's shunshin (base speed)> A (base speed)
Minato's base speed = A raiton v1
A raiton v2 > minato's base speed
Ftg > A v2 raiton
Now that we have already established that in the 3 rd senario if itachi counters all the ftg kunai's and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite amount, he would have to fight using his base speed, especially if his ftg kunai's are out of itachi's range. Neither will he have the time to go on his kees and try to recover some of his ftg kunai's to use again. Therefore whilst he can use his base speed for offence, he can use ftg for defence because he can teleport back to where those kunai's are, but then again genjutsu is available to itachi to use if minato's teleports back to where the kunais are. That of course on how which stragety he plans on using against itachi. Looking at his feet and being amaterasu'ed or looking at his eyes and the possibility of tsukuyomi?.
Anyway now that we have seen that minato's base speed = A v1 raiton, although its still fast i can see itachi living with him.
Sasuke was able to keep up with A in v1 raiton, but also wound him.
This shows sasuke's speed (4.5/5) and reflexes ability
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Sasuke's reflexes and speed is great but not compared to itachi's. Although able to evade be's assault, he still got wounded;
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Now there is a reason why itachi has a 5/5 for speed in the data book. His reflexes and speed is greater than sasuke's.
Able to keep up with km naruto;
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Evaded both him and bee's attack;
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Evaded the same attack sasuke did, but in his case he wasnt injured at all;
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Now, im not saying itachi base = minato's base. What im saying is that he himself is no slow turtule. He has demonstrated many speed feats in the manga and deserves kishi rating of a 5/5 for speed. His speed and reflexes are faster than sasuke's.
Now bee was able to counter ftg in time in the sense that he had a knife at minato's belly.
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Now im not saying base itachi speed is ftg speed, but in this image bee wasnt able to counter the same way he did to minato;
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If itachi can get out of reach of those ftg kunai's, afterall if those kunai's do not reach the target minato also doesnt meaning that minato has to use his base speed as his main offence and ftg as his defence because at least he can teleport back to where his ftg markings are, itachi has a great chance to win this, because even if he does teleport back to where the tags are, itachi's genjutsu is long range, he still has ways to attack minato whilst minato doesnt. Not to forget he either has to chose to look at itachi's feet when he fights therefoer amarasu is on the card, If he doesnt and looks in his eyes tsukuyomis is on the card. If itachi can counter all those ftg tags and leave enough space between himself and those tags, im sure he can deal with minato's base speed not to forget he is at the advantage due to minato either not looking into his eyes or looking into his eyes. He still has long and short range attacks. In the form of defence, he can create a clone, that if gets hit he disperse. He still has susano if needed.
Minato fans are clearly biting more than they can chew, calling me out. successfully champion scenario 1. Doubt anybody would get past it LOGICALLY let alone 2 and even 3. You minato fans are clearly biting more than you can chew, running before you can walk.
This isnt a vs thread. Its just for my convenience in future debates.
If you plan on debating feel free but if it isnt worthy of a responce ill ignore it
here we go again, anyway...as ive mentioned in the manga...itachi's moves were well countered as well by a simpler kakashi...at least someone in the manga did counter itachi...AND I WILL SAY IT ONCE AGAIN...GENJUTSU isnt an ultimate technique and all techniques will have loopholes...it was stated clearly that he admitted kakashi was a superb jutsu user...
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i will never argue and this would only be my post here because debating with fanboys will surely end up in situations forcing you to agree that their Lord itachi will hit him with genjutsu:
SOMEBODY COUNTERED ITACHI'S GENJUTSU...a technique usable as well since minato uses kagebunshins and even uses the same technique to spam his kunai...SO STOP saying that he doesnt have enough...he has more than enough kunais...in the kanabi bridge battle he even asked the guys to throw the kunais he prepared...it doesnt even matter since MINATO CAN MARK ANYTHING WITH HIS HAND, place it at certain points hidden then set itachi up like what he always does, lure him (since itachi also needs to close in to deliver genjutsu) and guess what he can do once itachi falls into this?
THE MARKINGS CAN BE PLACED ANYWHERE...
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- ****ing 2v1 (****ing raikage and 8tails)
sasuke even failed to beat 8 tails and hardly managed raikage alone and if you compare MS itachi and sasuke in terms of movements it is almost comparable already except for the genjutsu...
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and here are some feats of minato removing a genjutsu through fuinjutsu:
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here is one fact that seals can also be used when prepared inside the body...
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the manga holds some facts that minato has ENOUGH TIME to counter a genjutsu IF he gets hit...kakashi vs itachi battle 2, sasuke vs itachi...because itachi stands idle as well (controlling the time inside and not realtime) as he delivers the genjutsu to the enemy...the only reason why he was able to cut oro's hand off is because he was very near and notice that the technique was suddenly released as itachi moved as well as oro felt pain...and every genjutsu technique that itachi delivered HE WAS STANDING IDLE UNTIL THE TECHNIQUE GETS RELEASED, HE CHOOSES TO MOVE IN REALTIME OR IT GETS BROKEN BY A YIN RELEASE OF HIS ENEMY (KAI)...
ONLY ITACHI's TSUKUYOMI (COUNTERABLE since he needs to close an eye first) CAN SHAKE OFF INTELLIGENT ENEMIES and render them mentally damaged thus unable to move in real time once he starts moving...
LOOPHOLE ON AMATERASU:
caster closes an eye first (check sasuke vs itachi battle)
LOOPHOLE ON SUSANOO:
most of the time itachi reserves this as his final card because of the chakra consumption...
COUNTERS:
ITACHI's WEAKER GENJUTSUS: can be shaken off by a seal release (if prepared) or a seal casted on himself (unprepared battle), a kagebunshin will always render the genjutsus useless if properly setup (a feat shown by kakashi vs itachi)...
ITACHI's TSUKUYOMI: can be countered by a kagebunshin or a sudden kunai setup for FTG since it needs the eye to be closed...(same logic)
ITACHI's SUSANOO: a trump card always used as final defense which takes away lots of chakra from him...i doubt he can hold it for so long...its a double edged sword for itachi...either he releases that and receive attack or he spams it to try and catch minato...
Sounds plausible
Just wanted to read only the first one but then the 2nd and 3rd sound interesting too
+rep for your work and ending this bs about minato vs itachi
and the best thing is you never mentioned tskuyomi
you should mention too that nobody can dispell tskuyomi
OK well let me start off by saying that these are my two favorite characters in the manga, (which usually gets me alot of grief from all sides because there are so many haters of both).
Ok Blaze Release, your scenario 1 is the most likely to happen. Genjutsu is what makes Itachi such a force to be reckoned with, (that and his MS abilities). I think Itachi would win but I honestly think that his victory would only come from a genjutsu.
You kind of ignored some of Minato's positive attributes.
You didn't once mention Minato's summons. If Minato wasn't caught right off the bat in a genjutsu then his summons would likely play a big part in this battle as he can use long range attacks with them.
So there is that, and you didn't mention his ST barriers. You admitted that Minato was faster, so if he were to get out of a regular genjutsu in time, he could make a ST barrier to deflect any incoming attacks. However that relies on him getting out of the genjutsu in time.
Another area where you are wrong is him running out of FTG tags. He can tag anything he puts his hand on. He can tag a person, a rock, a tree, anything. Not only that but he can use multishadow clone on his kunai, like Hiruzen did with his shuriken.
So do I think Itachi would win? Yes, because his genjutsu is too good. There are very few people who can successfully counter genjutsu of Itachi's level.
However in the off chance that Minato does not get caught in a genjutsu I can see him pulling off the win. Minato has too many ways to dodge Itachi's moves.
Oh another thing I almost forgot, when you say counter the FTG kunai, what do you mean? Because if you mean knock them away from Itachi, well than that is not the point of Minato spreading around his FTG kunai. It is to give him a large number of places to teleport in the battlefield to escape/attack from.
So if Itachi "countered" Minato's FTG kunai, then all that would happen is that the kunai would fall in different spots than Minato threw them, which wouldn't hurt his usage of FTG at all. You get my point? FTG is not a direct attack, it is a means of setting up attacks, and either way those kunai will be there for him to teleport to.
Anyway back to my conclusion. I think Itachi would win through the use of a genjutsu followed up with a finishing move. However if Minato is not caught in a genjutsu right off the bat I can't see Itachi hitting him, because Minato is too fast in base speed, and can use FTG to dodge, and most of Itachi's moves are chakra consuming, so Itachi would be forced to use taijutsu which would be foolhardy against Minato.
If Minato gets caught in a genjutsu, Itachi wins.
If not, Minato wins.
Well I'm going to go ahead and direct you to the manga page where Minato breaks Tobi's control of the 9-tails.
All he needs to do is touch Itachi. And that is something that he can definitely do, if Sasuke or kakashi can hit Itachi, Minato definitely can. And then whatever summons he used is back in Minato's control. Bam a lam
But I still don't see this fight progressing past Itachi's genjutsu.
Unless you pull some fantastic argument up I am going to still believe that if Itachi doesn't win by genjutsu, then he doesn't win at all.
All he needs to do is touch Itachi. And that is something that he can definitely do, if Sasuke or kakashi can hit Itachi, Minato definitely can. And then whatever summons he used is back in Minato's control. Bam a lam
No character possesses the speed feats to touch healthy Itachi one on one - even on even ground - given that current Naruto and Bee were unable to. FTG is, of course, an exception, but given that Bee countered it to an extent - Itachi likely can as well.
Well I'm going to go ahead and direct you to the manga page where Minato breaks Tobi's control of the 9-tails.
All he needs to do is touch Itachi. And that is something that he can definitely do, if Sasuke or kakashi can hit Itachi, Minato definitely can. And then whatever summons he used is back in Minato's control. Bam a lam
But I still don't see this fight progressing past Itachi's genjutsu.
Unless you pull some fantastic argument up I am going to still believe that if Itachi doesn't win by genjutsu, then he doesn't win at all.
Oh yeah because he has the chakra levels to keep Susanoo up for days.
To Orowantsyourbody, are you kidding? Are you actually just messing with me or are you for reals?
I like Itachi as much as the next guy but to claim that no one can keep up with a healthy Itachi? I guess you must have missed the Sasuke vs. Itachi battle where Sasuke was holding his own (for a while), and the time that Kakashi interfered and saved Kurenai.
I guess that those times don't count.
And by the way Bee never countered FTG, had Minato wanted to stab him he could have done so before Bee knew he was there, plot no jutsu and Minato's mercy saved him. Unless you are telling me that Bee can not only tell the future but can move faster in base mode than Minato, which again is just bullshit.
As is your statement that nobody is as fast as Itachi.
I can name five people off the top of my head that are faster, Naruto, Minato, A, Bee, Guy, and Lee.
Without modes or jutsu Itachi might be second fastest, but there is no way he is faster in base speed than Minato. I don't think anyone would agree to that.
I like Itachi as much as the next guy but to claim that no one can keep up with a healthy Itachi? I guess you must have missed the Sasuke vs. Itachi battle where Sasuke was holding his own (for a while), and the time that Kakashi interfered and saved Kurenai.
True,but Itachi was throwing the fight,and didn't want to kill them.Don't you think it's funny that Naruto and Bee collectively found that it was hard to
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when pre-timeskip Itachi who lied all the times about ''I want to kill you'' got followed with his enemies that he didn't want to win over/let them winning? We use feats when he was going all-out.
And by the way Bee never countered FTG, had Minato wanted to stab him he could have done so before Bee knew he was there, plot no jutsu and Minato's mercy saved him. Unless you are telling me that Bee can not only tell the future but can move faster in base mode than Minato, which again is just bullshit.
