[Theory] Tobi: Thread for all Tobi theories and related discussions .

[BestYoungNarutoFan]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Sounds like Tobi = Son of Rikudo Sage
It's not really a myth is it?

 

[trevjb12321]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Massive kudos to you sir. If I knew how to, I'd give ya +rep. lol

 

[BestYoungNarutoFan]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Hey Kyo7763, do you have an in-depth look at Kabuto?

 

[Disquiet]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

that is the best theory I've heard so far, I like the idea about him storing his soul inside the gedo, it all makes sense. and yeah, the gedo must only be able to bring back people from the dead once, which is why he was angry, and now has to wait for sasuke. there's just so many things in this theory that makes sense.

though I'm not saying it's the elder son, but it definitely makes me believe it more.

 

[Kyo7763]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Hey Kyo7763, do you have an in-depth look at Kabuto?

No sorry, I just wrote this before starting to study for my Philosophy Exam tomorrow D:

 

[BestYoungNarutoFan]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

No sorry, I just wrote this before starting to study for my Philosophy Exam tomorrow D:

Are you planning to make one soon?

 

[Kyo7763]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Are you planning to make one soon?

Maybe as the manga goes on. There really isn't enough information on him yet to really come to any conclusions without making huge leaps of logic, plus it takes so much time to just sit and type it. I have a lot of thoughts on the manga and the different routes I think it can progress in that I could explain verbally or if someone could read my mind, but actually sitting down and typing it for other people takes time. It took me more than a week to finally decide when to do this one.

Basically, I'm lazy q_q;;

 

[Wparker6804]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Preface

I've only made a few threads on this website, most of which have actually be rather close to what happened in the manga... if that helps you read on... They are long so it's up to you if you want to read or not. The point of this thread is to go over some things I've thought about Tobi, and who he can reasonably be by actual fact. Some may be repeated information, but this is all my own deductions as I really don't read much on any forum.
The pure basis of this thread comes from a few very important facts that we know about in the manga: How you get the Rinnegan, who has unlocked it, what the hell is Gedo, and goals that Tobi has mentioned and is attempting to reach. I will not link to every image, but in the hour I currently have I will help put as much into this as I possibly can, it's a wall of text, but if you really care to read I'm sure it will be worth your time.

Body
To start things off, we need to all understand Madara and the FACTS we know about him.
1. He fought the first Hokage - Agreeable.
2. He unlocked the Rinnegan through this fight, or shortly before his death - Agreeable

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3. He is in fact dead - Agreeable or he wouldn't be able to be revived, assuming we take things at face value.
4. He apparently has no connection to Gedo, and I say this on the basis of Nagato. After continual use of Gedo, we see what Syncing with it has done to his body.
This leads us to believe that there is not ONE, not TWO, BUT THREE sets of known Rinnegan, Madara, the SO6P, and however Tobi has acquired his. We know Nagato got his from Tobi.(Counting these as one pair). Simply put, Madara and the SO6P are pretty much some of the strongest people, or very high in that ranking thus known on an individual basis; so Tobi needs to also be someone on this level as well so it makes logical sense.

Now, if we use these facts as an example we can infer what happened in the past. I want to focus on a few key things Tobi has noted such as:

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I find this very important, because Tobi talks as if he knows either the "Destiny' or "Fate" of the full bloodline of the Uchiha, meaning he has been around for a while, or somehow knows things we do not, which is quite obvious. But again if we take this at face value that already eliminates half the people many suspect Tobi to be, it's that simple.
These facts are then the result:
1. Madara fought the 1st Hokage - He lost - He unlocked the Rinnegan
2. Sasuke is "Fated" or it is his "Destiny" to fight Naruto - But for what purpose in Tobi's mind? Well, now we know how the Rinnegan is created, so it would be reasonable to say that it is for that very idea.
3. If we use Madara's fight vs the 1st Hokage, AND Naruto vs Sasuke's "fated" fight things become a little more predictable and logical.
We can infer that either the Eldest son, in whatever possible way, knew how to unlock the Rinnegan, and thus fought the younger son for said purpose. Or he happened to come across it by chance; regardless, if things are following the same pattern of logic it would be inferred that the eldest son DID IN FACT unlock the Rinnegan through that fight, and either died soon after or was put into an incredibly weakened state and I'll explain this specific example in a second.

This is where, for me, it delves into really paving out some in depth detail. So what we have concluded from this is that
Madara, and SO6P both had Rinnegan. Nagato did also, however, there is an outlier: Gedo, we don't know where it has yet come from, if there is more than one, if it is reproducible, or what it's full potential is. However the chapter 447 is VERY important for a few reasons, first let us think of how the Sharingan progresses. Do you know? It's all emotionally based to be pretty blunt about it. How to you unlock it in the first place, how does it advance to the third tomoe, how do you unlock MS? All are tied to emotion. We KNOW for a FACT the Rinnegan is the Sharingan, so UNLOCKING Gedo is a HUGE possibility, and purely logical when we simply look at how Nagato used it.

You must be registered for see images

Moreover, what does it do? Well with the Rinnegan the controller is quoted as being able to control "Life AND Death" - however the more people the less of the consumed souls it can return based on a time basis.

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Death is a very interesting factor for me, and now thinking about it "Or" would be the correct way for it to be used in English if it was able to do "both". We know it cannot be used for "both" seeing as Madara had noted the ability was supposed to be used for him, thus its affects are only producible once.
Because of this information we HAVE to conclude that Tobi HAS to know how Gedo works, and why he does not abuse it like Nagato did after syncing with it. It would be reasonable to say that Tobi is attempting to find a way around the negative affects Gedo has on the user(This is really key considering Itachi always mentioning everything has a negative side), thus, he has used it, synced with it before and has some sort of work around for it.

Which leads into the next area of what the hell is Tobi's real objective with Sasuke?
It was said after Nagato's failure that Tobi would look for someone else to sync with Gedo so that the "ability" Nagato used could be used again for Tobi. But all users thus far have, in some way, had possession of a Rinnegan. So, the whole objective of Sasuke vs Naruto is for Sasuke to unlock the Rinnegan for the eventual syncing of Gedo, it only makes sense.

With all of this information we're faced with very limited options moving forward when taking in this information: Tobi has to know about the past, he has a Rinnegan pair, he knows how the Rinnegan works, how Gedo works, wants Gedo to be used FOR him, and has some some eventual plan.

Conclusion
And thus this leads me to my prediction: If Gedo can only be used once for the "Life and Death" ability, and Tobi knows this then it would be reasonable to conclude someone who has unlocked it through an emotional fight; Tobi almost has to be the Eldest Son of the SO6P. He unlocked the Rinnegan in his fight against the younger son. Think about this, he has always had access to being around the younger son. If in fact the younger son was able to use the "wood tech" this would promptly explain where, how, and why Tobi has Zetsu. Moreover, if you unlock the Rinnegan before you "dye" or are in the process of "dying" then Zetsu would simply negate this. Madara did not have Zetsu, thus in his battle he died - why he is able to be revived. Sasuke will be aided by Tobi, thus able to unlock the Rinnegan explaining Tobi's need for Sasuke. Nagato had his implanted so that explains why he was alive.

The only questions I have left is how the eldest son had Zetsu in preparation for all of this? My guess is, he didn't. In fact, I believe this is where the "shell of a former self" and the "Life and Death" ability come into play. The Eldest son was, as we know, defeated but did not have zetsu around, if in a bind like this he may have used Gedo to steal, and store his own soul. Zetsu, as we know is created but has a conscience/personality, thus leading to the explanation of why many of us think Tobi is using a Zetsu body (Being able to recreate arms, yet still use his eye techs etc). Regardless of this small part being wrong or right, it would make sense that if he stored his soul in Gedo and another Rinnegan user synced with Gedo then used the ability to return that soul to Tobi, how the Eldest son could have been preserved for so long. And from this, everything stated above can be explained as to why he knows it, and simply justifies all actions he has taken, what he plans to do, and why he talks so much about destiny and fate as he has been around for so long.


The repetition and history throughout the manga has helped explain many events, and it seems reasonable this is one of them. This really only comes as the logical answer to me, at least at the moment, and hopefully it makes sense to everyone else ^_^

Discuss~?

Well, you make number of good points. The Rinnegan was awakened by Nagato when his parents died, his dog died, and when his best friend died. A simmilar example can be made for awakening the first three stages of the origional Sharingan and the Mangekyo. Good thinking.
When people said it was the Sage's son I shrugged it off, and yet you give plausble evidence to your hypothosis. There are a few things I don't completely agree/understnd, but I won't be picky or criticize.
I came up with a really good idea as to who Tobi was--another Idea that I shrugged off:
Tobi could in fact be a Zetsu cloan created by Madara prior to death. Madara knew he was dying, and had some master plan in the works... but how could he do that after death? My idea is that Tobi was s Zetsu cloan of Madara, created by Madara, in order to pull the strings in the dark and stay in the shadows until it was time to set key events in motion. When Tobi was asked what he was, he said he was a "shell of his former self," becuse Zetsu cloans are only a fraction of the power of the origional. Nagato was created to be Tobi/Madara's trump card to bring Madara back to life once the plan could be brought to frutrition, and that's why it was givin to him as a child. It's because the resurrection technique takes time for someone to control as well as the time needed to mster the Rinnegan. That's why Tobi said "the resurrection technique was ment for me"..... meaning the real Madara
But then a hiccup occored: Nagato used the resurrection technique on Konoha and died in the proccess. This put a huge dent in Tobi's plan, as his master could no longer be brought bck. He then decided "enough of being cautios" and decided to take things into his own hands. Even though his master couldn't get the job done, there was no way he could just let go of such a sceam becuse of one man's actions. He took on the persona of Madara Uchiha, brainwashed Sasuke to replace Nagato as his most powerful pawn, and confronted the five Kages to declare war.
But then, along comes a spider. Or should I say, a snake. Kabuto became aware of Tobi's plans and joined forces to get his hands on Sasuke. He presented the Edo Tensei zombies to show Tobi the fighting prowess he was to provide with his allegance. In addition, he used the Edo Tensei body of the REAL Madara as blackmail to make his allegance perminate and official. This is why Tobi was so angry and almost pissed himself--because Kabuto had his former master, proof that Tobi's alias was a fraud, and one of the most powerful ninjas in history. As soon as Madara stepped out of the coffin, he mentioned Nagato and his advance with the Rinnegan. He must have thought at first that everything was going as planned and he was resurrected via the outer path. That's why Madara was so angry when he learned that he was Edo Tensei: he wasn't brought back the way he wanted to be
Then, Tobi reclaimed the left Rinnegan, created the 100,000 white Zetsus, summoned the Deamon Statue, nad created the new Six Paths of Pain to increace his fighting prowess and make a stand in the war.

 

[Wparker6804]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

that is the best theory I've heard so far, I like the idea about him storing his soul inside the gedo, it all makes sense. and yeah, the gedo must only be able to bring back people from the dead once, which is why he was angry, and now has to wait for sasuke. there's just so many things in this theory that makes sense.

though I'm not saying it's the elder son, but it definitely makes me believe it more.

Gedo Mazo doesn't resurrect the dead. The outer path does. When Tobi mentioned Nagato's technique, he wasn't talking about Gedo. The Gedo statue is what was used to seal the tailed beasts.

 

[Kyo7763]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Spoiler

Well, you make number of good points. The Rinnegan was awakened by Nagato when his parents died, his dog died, and when his best friend died. A simmilar example can be made for awakening the first three stages of the origional Sharingan and the Mangekyo. Good thinking.
When people said it was the Sage's son I shrugged it off, and yet you give plausble evidence to your hypothosis. There are a few things I don't completely agree/understnd, but I won't be picky or criticize.
I came up with a really good idea as to who Tobi was--another Idea that I shrugged off:
Tobi could in fact be a Zetsu cloan created by Madara prior to death. Madara knew he was dying, and had some master plan in the works... but how could he do that after death? My idea is that Tobi was s Zetsu cloan of Madara, created by Madara, in order to pull the strings in the dark and stay in the shadows until it was time to set key events in motion. When Tobi was asked what he was, he said he was a "shell of his former self," becuse Zetsu cloans are only a fraction of the power of the origional. Nagato was created to be Tobi/Madara's trump card to bring Madara back to life once the plan could be brought to frutrition, and that's why it was givin to him as a child. It's because the resurrection technique takes time for someone to control as well as the time needed to mster the Rinnegan. That's why Tobi said "the resurrection technique was ment for me"..... meaning the real Madara
But thin a hiccup occored: Nagato used the resurrection technique on Konoha and died in the proccess. This put a huge dent in Tobi's plan, as his master could no longer be brought bck. He then decided "enough of being cautios" and decided to take things into his own hands. Even though his master couldn't get the job done, there was no way he could just let go of such a sceam becuse of one man's actions. He took on the persona of Madara Uchiha, brainwashed Sasuke to replace Nagato as his most powerful pawn, and confronted the five Kages to declare war.
But then, along comes a spider. Or should I say, a snake. Kabuto became aware of Tobi's plans and joined forces to get his hands on Sasuke. He presented the Edo Tensei zombies to show Tobi the fighting prowess he was to provide with his allegance. In addition, he used the Edo Tensei body of the REAL Madara as blackmail to make his allegance perminate and official. This is why Tobi was so angry and almost pissed himself--because Kabuto had his former master, proof that Tobi's alias was a fraud, and one of the most powerful ninjas in history.
Then, Tobi reclaimed the left Rinnegan, created the 100,000 white Zetsus, summoned the Deamon Statue, nad created the new Six Paths of Pain to increace his fighting prowess and make a stand in the war.

I agree there is in fact something I feel I'm missing with regards to Madara. He appears to know about the plan, and has a "side" that he's taking in all of this. However, if he is in fact working with for example Kabuto, then he would actually be on the opposing side of Tobi, and then a buncha logistics come into play that I don't really have time to type out.
EDIT: In reply to above for other users of the Rinnegan all paths are inside one person - a.k.a: SO6P one person, and we saw this when Nagato was revived as well. In "actual life" he is the only person to use other bodies with the Rinnegan, and a lot of people sort of ignore this, but it's pretty important. So regardless of what "path" he was using it in that arc, the result is whoever has the Rinnegan still has the ability to store souls just instead of multiple bodies all paths are embodied by the single body - this includes storing the Tailed Beasts as well as the other abilities as Madara has shown us. (also just to add - this also explains the huge reasoning of why Kishi explains those black rods so much - it's how the rinnegan is transfered over many bodies etc and why the rods are so important even until the last chapter release with Tobi)

That being said, for anyone who replies, don't quote the OP, it just looks terrible in a reply - either just quote it, then remove all of the context, or spoiler tag it for the sake of others ^_^ (Spoilers can be done by typing "[~spoiler~]" ___text___ [~/spoiler~]" just remove the "~"'s

 

[Roshi Jinchuuriki]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Great theory, the elder son has always been the number one candidate to be Tobi in my opinion.

 

[Disquiet]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Gedo Mazo doesn't resurrect the dead. The outer path does. When Tobi mentioned Nagato's technique, he wasn't talking about Gedo. The Gedo statue is what was used to seal the tailed beasts.

the thread creator already beat me to it

 

[Wparker6804]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

I agree there is in fact something I feel I'm missing with regards to Madara. He appears to know about the plan, and has a "side" that he's taking in all of this. However, if he is in fact working with for example Kabuto, then he would actually be on the opposing side of Tobi, and then a buncha logistics come into play that I don't really have time to type out.
EDIT: In reply to above for other users of the Rinnegan all paths are inside one person - a.k.a: SO6P one person, and we saw this when Nagato was revived as well. In "actual life" he is the only person to use other bodies with the Rinnegan, and a lot of people sort of ignore this, but it's pretty important. So regardless of what "path" he was using it in that arc, the result is whoever has the Rinnegan still has the ability to store souls in Gedo, just instead of multiple bodies all paths are embodied by the single body - this includes storing the Tailed Beasts as well as the other abilities as Madara has shown us.

That being said, for anyone who replies, don't quote the OP, it just looks terrible in a reply - either just quote it, then remove all of the context, or spoiler tag it for the sake of others ^_^ (Spoilers can be done by typing "[~spoiler~]" ___text___ [~/spoiler~]" just remove the "~"'s

I wasn't saying MADARA was working with Kabuto. I said Kabuto BLACKMAILED Tobi into allegance. Madara isn't working with Kabuto--he's being controlled by Kabuto.
Something I forgot to type in the origional poast... I'll add tht now.
As soon as Madara stepped out of the coffin, he mentioned Nagato and his advance with the Rinnegan. He must have thought at first that everything was going as planned and he was resurrected via the outer path. That's why Madara was so angry when he learned that he was Edo Tensei: he wasn't brought back the way he wanted to be.
Gedo isn't used to resurrect the dead, the outer path is--and if Madara placed himself in Gedo Mazo, then Kabuto couldn't have resurrected him--because he would have been sealed up in Gedo Mazo!

 

[Disquiet]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

I wasn't saying MADARA was working with Kabuto. I said Kabuto BLACKMAILED Tobi into allegance. Madara isn't working with Kabuto--he's being controlled by Kabuto.
Something I forgot to type in the origional poast... I'll add tht now.
As soon as Madara stepped out of the coffin, he mentioned Nagato and his advance with the Rinnegan. He must have thought at first that everything was going as planned and he was resurrected via the outer path. That's why Madara was so angry when he learned that he was Edo Tensei: he wasn't brought back the way he wanted to be.
Gedo isn't used to resurrect the dead, the outer path is--and if Madara placed himself in Gedo Mazo, then Kabuto couldn't have resurrected him--because he would have been sealed up in Gedo Mazo!

I'm not the one that made this thread, but I think he mean like this, ONLY the elder was sealed inside gedo mazo. and to use the "life and death" tech, you must be synced with the gedo mazo, nagato was synced with gedo mazo, regardless of what path used it. so what I'm saying is that madara was not sealed inside gedo mazo, and thus can be brought back using that "life and death" but only when the gedo mazo is synced with the user of the rinnegan

EDIT: he just posted below me, actually I do think that it's a type of storage container, I think anyways, I mean I don't know if the tailed beasts were considered sealed or stored, I think it's the latter

 

[Kyo7763]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

Spoiler

I wasn't saying MADARA was working with Kabuto. I said Kabuto BLACKMAILED Tobi into allegance. Madara isn't working with Kabuto--he's being controlled by Kabuto.
Something I forgot to type in the origional poast... I'll add tht now.
As soon as Madara stepped out of the coffin, he mentioned Nagato and his advance with the Rinnegan. He must have thought at first that everything was going as planned and he was resurrected via the outer path. That's why Madara was so angry when he learned that he was Edo Tensei: he wasn't brought back the way he wanted to be.
Gedo isn't used to resurrect the dead, the outer path is--and if Madara placed himself in Gedo Mazo, then Kabuto couldn't have resurrected him--because he would have been sealed up in Gedo Mazo!

Hmm I think you misunderstood a lot of what I stated. First off, I used a "for example", but even still you argued a point I agreed with you on.
edit: i see where i typoed so sorry for that, i fixed it, I'm not able to keep up with this as much or put as much thought into since I'm studying atm. But above pretty much summarizes what I think.

You completely misunderstood what we're talking about with Gedo, we're not arguing if it does or doesn't revive anyone - it's a storage container I think we all agree on that. We're saying that whoever has the Rinnegan has all the paths - wherever it is being stored each rinnegan user has access to that, so I guess I should clarify that in the OP. The rest is opinion based though.
and edit #2: i think you didn't catch on to the part where I implore you to research some on your own. In chapter noted you see Gedo doing the same thing the outer path does. Syncing may allow this if all is embodied by one as at this point Nagato only has one body instead of the many paths. Perhaps a little different or not in the same way, but it's the same essence of being involved with the soul or spirit which is the basis that Gedo can be related to all rinnegan users.


Lastly, if Madara is siding with anyone at this point it would have been Oro, not Kabuto - and anyone can be summoned as long as they are not sealed in Itachi's sword, or the seal used on the Hokages as far as I understand as those are actual permanent seals, not containers for a soul as we saw the souls can be brought back as it happened for the villagers.

 

[KillaCam]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

I agree that tobi might be the Elder son, but lets date back to when The sage was choosing his Succesor.

The Older son Believed that Might was the key to Peice while the younger son beleived tht love was the key to peice.

The Younger son was indeed chosen to become the sucessor, and as we all know this pissed off the elder brother, as if any elder brother would feel if there father chose the younger brother of him.

And yea they fought becasue of it.

We don't know the details of who won or what happened after that fight.


But anyways, This brings in the Moon's eye plan, tobi's plan to use an Eternal Tsukyomi to control the earth into Peace.

Thus using Might to achieve Peace like he first thought needed to be done.

A way to get back at his father and show him even thou he's dead, that his way was the right way. And that Love can never fully bring about -Total- Peace.

 

[fortherobot]

Re: Tobis Identity 100 percent spoiler

Kagami... why is everyone one confused? His name means Mirror, which is what the Uchiha eyes are all about. He is the only one who has been in a position to know everything he does and hate everyone too. I believe Kagami is Obito's brother/father. Let me explain...

He was under the lead of the Second Hokage (Another reference to Tobi), was apparently friend's with Danzo, Third Hokage, 2 Elders, and probably that over weight guy too (sorry forget atm. lol). WHAT'S NOT TO BE MAD ABOUT? His leader made the police force, which has been viewed to be a control tactic (at least to Tobi), Danzo and the elders tried to kill off the Uchiha (...some friends?). It has also been shown that when the Kyuubi attacked it showed everyone fighting except Danzo/Kagami (Kagami was obviously fighting the 4th at the time as Tobi calling himself Madara).

I believe Madara and Kagami know each other.. but i don't think they like each other, I think some how Kagami just took over what Madara was trying to do before he died. (apparently Madara knew Nagato remember?). Sorry people.. Madara is DEAD, he is Edo!! nothing more than a puppet slave to Kabuto now. The only one to be really free from that is Itachi.

Also during that Kyuubi attack under Tobi control, Kakashi and Gai and his generation didnt fight, they were too young, which means Obito is already DEAD. Kagami has motive to be angry about his death, especially after what his "friends" were trying to do at the time.

PLUS, it would make sense as to why Kakashi is powerless to use eye tech on Tobi being related. (Similar to how Itachi/Sauske have similar powers). One eye of Tobi sucks in on the person, Kakashi sucks in on another target (not the person). Have you notice that Kakashi's eye is the left and Tobi's eye is the right? EACH EYES POWER! I don't think Kakashi can just use the eye properly, because it has been made note that none blood born eye users cannot use the eye as well as a natural.

This is why is feel it is Kagami and he is either Obito's father or older brother too.

 

[Sinnister]

Re: Tobi is an Uchiha

1. every important dead ninja is shown to have died? NOOOT. What about Hashirama? all we know is that he passed sometime right after founding Konoha..
what about Tobirama? All shown to us was that he died during the first world war in that ambush... no dead body, no scene in which they died (i can give more exampled of important dead ninjas), only information...and with izuna? a casket, a body, and even a bandage around his eyes, showing thus that the particular body is the scene had to have lost both eyes, either sometime before he died or right before it from infection... ... ... ??? anything can be a cover-up if you look at it that way, but this is failed logic because a. you CAN die from getting your eyes ripped out, especially in that time-period, b. NOONE said he died due to his eyes being taken out.



2. Madara told Izuna to come to the fighting grounds where he faced Hashirama? ... mmmhhhh yeaaaaaa, NOOOPE. that's straight out of your ass, and not the manga.

3. Izuna IS NOT the only other person Tobi CAN BE besides Madara... and wait how CAN it BOTH be madara? ... don't give me clone bullsh*t theories because Hashirama cannot be considered to be ALSO Yamato or even white Zetsu. So because of the sentence "shell of a former self" you assume that it's enough to think Izuna is Tobi and implanted madara's rinnegan to resurrect madara, thus making him a shell of what he used to be because he then transplanted the same rinnegan from him to nagato? ... once again to ressurrect Madara... (AGAIN???) ... what the hell are you talking about? are you even sober or just unable to keep your mind from producing fallacies?


4. IF you COULD bring back ONE person that died A LONG time ago with the Rinnegan instead of ALOT of people that died recently because of Uzumaki blood... then why would they implant it into Nagato if Tobi ressurected Madara already in your explanation? ... ... well too bad that Madara HIMSELF, seemed that he was FINALLY happy to see himself back to life since dying sometime soon after the battle with Hashirama... and confused Edo Tensin with the Rinnegan tech that brings you back to life. so again, noooppeee, Madara HAS BEEN waiting to be brought back to life.

1. If you faked your death you would make it as real as possible right? If not then why do it. How do you know people die from getting their eyes ripped out in narutoverse?? In a Freakin universe where people create swords of wind(Danzou) anything is possible.

2. The manga doesnt tell you EVERYTHING. Dude, analyze. Use your brain for something other than listening what people tell you.

3. Its not enough when you take things out of context. Maybe you need to re read. As for the fallacies, RE READ.

4. Are you dumb? How could Madara EXPECT to be brought back and by NAGATO IF he never met him?? Dude theres a tangency in Nagato, Tobi And Madara being in the same place as one. Only way Madara could know Nagato is for him to have been ressurected. Thats the ONLY way. The only way for Madara to have been brought back is via the rinnegan. Who else could have known about the Rinnegan and the moon eye plan other than Izuna?? NO ONE. Who would madara trust with the plan other than Izuna?? NO ONE.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

Re: An in-depth look at Tobi and the Manga

preface

i've only made a few threads on this website, most of which have actually be rather close to what happened in the manga... If that helps you read on... They are long so it's up to you if you want to read or not. The point of this thread is to go over some things i've thought about tobi, and who he can reasonably be by actual fact. Some may be repeated information, but this is all my own deductions as i really don't read much on any forum.
The pure basis of this thread comes from a few very important facts that we know about in the manga: How you get the rinnegan, who has unlocked it, what the hell is gedo, and goals that tobi has mentioned and is attempting to reach. I will not link to every image, but in the hour i currently have i will help put as much into this as i possibly can, it's a wall of text, but if you really care to read i'm sure it will be worth your time.

body
to start things off, we need to all understand madara and the facts we know about him.
1. He fought the first hokage - agreeable.
2. He unlocked the rinnegan through this fight, or shortly before his death - agreeable

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3. He is in fact dead - agreeable or he wouldn't be able to be revived, assuming we take things at face value.
4. He apparently has no connection to gedo, and i say this on the basis of nagato. After continual use of gedo, we see what syncing with it has done to his body.
This leads us to believe that there is not one, not two, but three sets of known rinnegan, madara, the so6p, and however tobi has acquired his. We know nagato got his from tobi.(counting these as one pair). Simply put, madara and the so6p are pretty much some of the strongest people, or very high in that ranking thus known on an individual basis; so tobi needs to also be someone on this level as well so it makes logical sense.

Now, if we use these facts as an example we can infer what happened in the past. I want to focus on a few key things tobi has noted such as:

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i find this very important, because tobi talks as if he knows either the "destiny' or "fate" of the full bloodline of the uchiha, meaning he has been around for a while, or somehow knows things we do not, which is quite obvious. But again if we take this at face value that already eliminates half the people many suspect tobi to be, it's that simple.
These facts are then the result:
1. Madara fought the 1st hokage - he lost - he unlocked the rinnegan
2. Sasuke is "fated" or it is his "destiny" to fight naruto - but for what purpose in tobi's mind? Well, now we know how the rinnegan is created, so it would be reasonable to say that it is for that very idea.
3. If we use madara's fight vs the 1st hokage, and naruto vs sasuke's "fated" fight things become a little more predictable and logical.
We can infer that either the eldest son, in whatever possible way, knew how to unlock the rinnegan, and thus fought the younger son for said purpose. Or he happened to come across it by chance; regardless, if things are following the same pattern of logic it would be inferred that the eldest son did in fact unlock the rinnegan through that fight, and either died soon after or was put into an incredibly weakened state and i'll explain this specific example in a second.

This is where, for me, it delves into really paving out some in depth detail. So what we have concluded from this is that
madara, and so6p both had rinnegan. Nagato did also, however, there is an outlier: Gedo, we don't know where it has yet come from, if there is more than one, if it is reproducible, or what it's full potential is. However the chapter 447 is very important for a few reasons, first let us think of how the sharingan progresses. Do you know? It's all emotionally based to be pretty blunt about it. How to you unlock it in the first place, how does it advance to the third tomoe, how do you unlock ms? All are tied to emotion. We know for a fact the rinnegan is the sharingan, so unlocking gedo is a huge possibility, and purely logical when we simply look at how nagato used it.

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moreover, what does it do? Well with the rinnegan the controller is quoted as being able to control "life and death" and perhaps this can only be done through a syncing with gedo. Gedo may allow simultaneous, or linked use to the many paths nagato apparently did not have before this point, and as we see gedo is also using similar abilities to the outer path in this chapter, so there should be a reasonable connection here. Moreover, the black rods connected to the back of nagato look very similar to what are being used for the other paths/bodies so perhaps another connection via gedo - but moving along with the main point - the more people attempted to be revived the less of the consumed souls it can return based on a time basis.

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death is a very interesting factor for me, and now thinking about it "or" would be the correct way for it to be used in english if it was able to do "both". We know it cannot be used for "both" seeing as madara had noted the ability was supposed to be used for him, thus its affects are only producible once.
Because of this information we have to conclude that tobi has to know how gedo works, and why he does not abuse it like nagato did after syncing with it. It would be reasonable to say that tobi is attempting to find a way around the negative affects gedo has on the user(this is really key considering itachi always mentioning everything has a negative side), thus, he has used it, synced with it before and has some sort of work around for it.

Which leads into the next area of what the hell is tobi's real objective with sasuke?
It was said after nagato's failure that tobi would look for someone else to sync with gedo so that the "ability" nagato used could be used again for tobi. But all users thus far have, in some way, had possession of a rinnegan. So, the whole objective of sasuke vs naruto is for sasuke to unlock the rinnegan for the eventual syncing of gedo, it only makes sense.

With all of this information we're faced with very limited options moving forward when taking in this information: Tobi has to know about the past, he has a rinnegan pair, he knows how the rinnegan works, how gedo works, wants gedo to be used for him, and has some some eventual plan.

conclusion
and thus this leads me to my prediction: If gedo can only be used once for the "life and death" ability, and tobi knows this then it would be reasonable to conclude someone who has unlocked it through an emotional fight; tobi almost has to be the eldest son of the so6p. He unlocked the rinnegan in his fight against the younger son. Think about this, he has always had access to being around the younger son. If in fact the younger son was able to use the "wood tech" this would promptly explain where, how, and why tobi has zetsu. Moreover, if you unlock the rinnegan before you "dye" or are in the process of "dying" then zetsu would simply negate this. Madara did not have zetsu, thus in his battle he died - why he is able to be revived. Sasuke will be aided by tobi, thus able to unlock the rinnegan explaining tobi's need for sasuke. Nagato had his implanted so that explains why he was alive.

The only questions i have left is how the eldest son had zetsu in preparation for all of this? My guess is, he didn't. In fact, i believe this is where the "shell of a former self" and the "life and death" ability come into play. The eldest son was, as we know, defeated but did not have zetsu around, if in a bind like this he may have used gedo to steal, and store his own soul. Zetsu, as we know is created but has a conscience/personality, thus leading to the explanation of why many of us think tobi is using a zetsu body (being able to recreate arms, yet still use his eye techs etc). Regardless of this small part being wrong or right, it would make sense that if he stored his soul in gedo and another rinnegan user synced with gedo then used the ability to return that soul to tobi, how the eldest son could have been preserved for so long. And from this, everything stated above can be explained as to why he knows it, and simply justifies all actions he has taken, what he plans to do, and why he talks so much about destiny and fate as he has been around for so long.


the repetition and history throughout the manga has helped explain many events, and it seems reasonable this is one of them. This really only comes as the logical answer to me, at least at the moment, and hopefully it makes sense to everyone else ^_^

discuss~?

believe it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!​

 

[Zato]

Re: Tobi is an Uchiha

4. Are you dumb? How could Madara EXPECT to be brought back and by NAGATO IF he never met him?? Dude theres a tangency in Nagato, Tobi And Madara being in the same place as one. Only way Madara could know Nagato is for him to have been ressurected. Thats the ONLY way. The only way for Madara to have been brought back is via the rinnegan. Who else could have known about the Rinnegan and the moon eye plan other than Izuna?? NO ONE. Who would madara trust with the plan other than Izuna?? NO ONE.

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Madara is implying that he died while Nagato was a kid or at least after his birth. So he was alive during that era. He thought he was brought back to life by Nagato.