Kakashi vs Itachi(No MS)

[Blaze Release]

itachi doesn't have those items as they are only used when he uses susanoo and therefore considered MS items.

Somewhat true, but it didnt come with susano his ms tech. He equipped it to susanoo. Therefore you can say he has these

 

[Owarij]

itachi doesn't have those items as they are only used when he uses susanoo and therefore considered MS items.

They are not sussanno items though, he just equipped them there......They are legendary items just like sword of kusunagi, thus oro was looking for totsuka sword

 

[fastrthnwind]

They are not sussanno items though, he just equipped them there......They are legendary items just like sword of kusunagi, thus oro was looking for totsuka sword

since they are equipped to susanoo, then they cannot be used technically. Unless the thread creator specifically says that he has the items himself, then we must assume that they are only used by susanoo and therefore unuseable due to no MS.

 

[Owarij]

since they are equipped to susanoo, then they cannot be used technically. Unless the thread creator specifically says that he has the items himself, then we must assume that they are only used by susanoo and therefore unuseable due to no MS.

But they aren't only used by susanno, and they aren't unuseable without ms...If he can't use ms , its only fair he gets to use his non ms items...

 

[arv993]

if oro was searching for legendary items and he had one of them too it makes logical sense he can use sword of totsuka and yata mirror w/o sussano

 

[arv993]

Sasuke used MS genjutsu on those guys while kakashi's most powerful genjutsu was three tomoe, and it didn't just incap the guys like it did to C, but it knocked two of them out at once.

i don't want to get in the debate but sasuke had to deal with higher lvl opponents danzo, bee are kage lvl and see who is high lvl jonin especially one who also uses genjutsu. those were anbu not even recognized ones but just fodder so that feat was nothing spectacular and by feats sasuke is way better no way is kakashi better at genjutsu and he has not shown feats comparable to sasuke. your statement that kakashi feats wise is better cannot be backed up unless u consider anbus on kage or high jonin level which they are very likely not

and he used 3 tomoe sharingan not Ms to get C

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[fastrthnwind]

But they aren't only used by susanno, and they aren't unuseable without ms...If he can't use ms , its only fair he gets to use his non ms items...

if oro was searching for legendary items and he had one of them too it makes logical sense he can use sword of totsuka and yata mirror w/o sussano

I never said he couldn't use them himself, but he hasn't been shown using them without susanoo, and since the threadmaker did not say that he had the legendary items himself, then they shouldn't be used without his susanoo.

 

[lanakau888]

i don't want to get in the debate but sasuke had to deal with higher lvl opponents danzo, bee are kage lvl and see who is high lvl jonin especially one who also uses genjutsu. those were anbu not even recognized ones but just fodder so that feat was nothing spectacular and by feats sasuke is way better no way is kakashi better at genjutsu and he has not shown feats comparable to sasuke. your statement that kakashi feats wise is better cannot be backed up unless u consider anbus on kage or high jonin level which they are very likely not

and he used 3 tomoe sharingan not Ms to get C

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according to genjutsu/itachi/sasuke supporters, being a kage-level shinobi doesn't give you any more genjutsu resistance than being a gennin. Its all about genjutsu resisting feats.

 

[Blaze Release]

according to genjutsu/itachi/sasuke supporters, being a kage-level shinobi doesn't give you any more genjutsu resistance than being a gennin. Its all about genjutsu resisting feats.

To some extent yes. Oro is obviously kage, look what happened to him. Danzou is a kage sasuke fooled him with genjutsu. Deidora defeated a kage, he still lost to genjutsu. Bee is on kage level itachi still caught him. Jiraya's frogs genjutsu owned 3 peins.

Also have you noticed ive just mentioned regular genjutsu's. I dont want to bring tsukuyomi, izanagi, kotoamatsukami into the question

 

[lanakau888]

To some extent yes. Oro is obviously kage, look what happened to him. Danzou is a kage sasuke fooled him with genjutsu. Deidora defeated a kage, he still lost to genjutsu. Bee is on kage level itachi still caught him. Jiraya's frogs genjutsu owned 3 peins.

Also have you noticed ive just mentioned regular genjutsu's. I dont want to bring tsukuyomi, izanagi, kotoamatsukami into the question

So are you supporting my post that rank doesnt matter when talking about genjutsu resistance, and that kakashi easily knocking out the two anbu with one genjutsu is a better feat than sasuke straining to incapacitate C?

And didn't sauske use tsukuyomi on bee and danzo?

And thank you for the +rep, its about d*mn time.

 

[soulreaper11]

all I know is this kakashi has not once beat itachi and this fight is without MS not the sharingan so itachi got this either way with sharingan and without it.itachi is on a kage level do we all agree and kakashi is not. The only reason why he was chosen as hokage was because no one eles was as popular and respect throughout the nations as him.it was not for his strength but mostly he was all the elders have that fit the role.

 

[Blaze Release]

So are you supporting my post that rank doesnt matter when talking about genjutsu resistance, and that kakashi easily knocking out the two anbu with one genjutsu is a better feat than sasuke straining to incapacitate C?

And didn't sauske use tsukuyomi on bee and danzo?

And thank you for the +rep, its about d*mn time.

Rank obviously matters, but its also the skill of the user.
The 'tsukuyomi' that sasuke used on both bee and danzo mustve been a weak one, for bee not to get affected and for danzo to basically call his pathetic in comparison to that of itachi's

 

[soulreaper11]

Rank obviously matters, but its also the skill of the user.
The 'tsukuyomi' that sasuke used on both bee and danzo mustve been a weak one, for bee not to get affected and for danzo to basically call his pathetic in comparison to that of itachi's

the one on bee worked the 8tailed waked him up(bee unaffected by genjutsu cause the 8tail has his back unlike naruto and the 9tail) and the one on danzo worked as well but danzo countered it.and itachi is just the genjustu master cant play head games with him.

 

[leon8chicken]

Itachi's Tsukyomi could make 1 second feel like days. Sasuke cannot do this but he can change Amaterasu's shape.

 

[arv993]

according to genjutsu/itachi/sasuke supporters, being a kage-level shinobi doesn't give you any more genjutsu resistance than being a gennin. Its all about genjutsu resisting feats.

C is a genjutsu user plus a med ninja that incapacitating him is much more of a feat in comparison to what kakashi did. and they both used three tomoe sharingan that pretty much clears it in that regard and yes not necesarily does rank matter but if they just fall down in an instant it should tell u about their level at resisting genjutsu, if kakashi was really that good at genjutsu at just a 3 tomoe sharingan u would think he would use it more. yes kage lvl does not mean get out of genjutsu but its almost always the case they are likely to be much better at resisting genjutsu(most of the cases not all) its very likely for bee and danzo(especially him who actually has a sharingan and has exp with the uchiha seeing his background) to have better resistance to genjutsu than nameless anbu. let me repeat once more that my point is that sasuke's genjutsu feats are better since he actually got someone who is a genjutsu user with 3 tomoe that should be much higher feat than nameless anbu ninja which u consider to be a better feat than sasuke which is laughable either way ms or non-ms genjutsu wise sasuke seems to have clear advantage in terms of feats that is all i want to convey.

 

[ShinobiGod]

Kakashi falls to Itachi's superiority in Genjutsu. He couldn't take on an Itachi clone alone, Itachi in person would notice the clone Kakahsi isn't above Itachi in skill. Besides being an Uchiha the kid is imo just as gifted as the 4th Hokage was.

 

[sharingan67]

He couldn't take on an Itachi clone alone, Itachi in person would notice the clone Kakahsi isn't above Itachi in skill.

kakashi didn't fight itachi's clone,itachi'clone vs kakashi's clone.kakashi can counter itachi's genjutsu with a simple clone.

 

[ShinobiGod]

kakashi didn't fight itachi's clone,itachi'clone vs kakashi's clone.kakashi can counter itachi's genjutsu with a simple clone.

Re-read my Post THE R4EEL ITACHI WOULD KNOW IT'S A CLONE. Kakashi can't use too many bushin no jutsu.

 

[sharingan67]

Re-read my Post THE R4EEL ITACHI WOULD KNOW IT'S A CLONE. Kakashi can't use too many bushin no jutsu.

sharingan can't detect a clone .the bunshin jutsu creates a SOLID CLONE (exact copy of user), where the chakra is divided equally between them.even bykugan can't detect a kage bunshin.

 

[Piratefish]

This is difficult. Itachi's Mangekyou techniques are a bit gamebreaking and without them, as in their second fight, it would be a lot closer.

I'm narrowly in Kakashi's camp on this one. Itachi has the edge in genjutsu, Kakashi in ninjutsu, and they're roughly comparable in taijutsu. Intelligence-wise I believe Kakashi is the victor.

One thing which I'm a bit annoyed about is the constant comments about Kakashi "needing Naruto's help" in the fight againt Itachi. He didn't. In the fight, Naruto gets caught in a genjutsu, gets help to escape, and runs forward with a Rasengan to finish off, and this is important, a distracted and immobilized oppnent. Kakashi outsmarted Itachi, and I'm fairly sure he'd have been able to "run up and Rasengan someone" himself.

First fight: Kakashi gets owned due to Tsukuyomi(, which is disabled in this round).
Second fight: Kakashi outwits and eliminates his opponent.

I KNOW ITACHI WAS AT 30% CHAKRA! I KNOW THIS! DON'T TELL ME!

What he wasn't was at 30% brain-capacity.