[Theory] Itachi is stronger than Nagato

ssDeadly · Aug 20, 2011

thelonghorn said:
he could win with a Totuska sword.

Fin

possibily the only relevent thing in this post above.
yes he would win and has allready won

Kyuubikiller · Aug 20, 2011

Negato >>>>>> Itachi, it's that plain and simple. Itachi's only chance of beating him is using the Sword of Totsuka like he did, while Negato was distracted. All he did was take advantage of the situation, he didn't really win in a 1v1, Naruto and Bee were there too. Fanboys love to exclude all the important stuff to make their fav seem more powerful then they actually are. I like Itachi, more then Negato, but to say he can beat basically a mini so6p is ludicrous.

Please guys, try to be more realistic in your reasoning, I know Fanboyism is a chronic disease, but there are steps you can take to improve your ability to function properly when presented with these types of threads without ruining your credibility, get your delusions in check please!!

arv993 · Aug 20, 2011

Twedros said:
yeah itachi has edo tensei as well so its unfair to bring this up he repeled the amateseru and can revive himself as you know we have different opnions but were talking about nagato here if you have read the manga you will realise without a doubt he is the strongest ninja alive maybe not the smartest but the strongest,saying kabuto knew his powers better than nagato doesnt make sense it was a major disadvantage

his chibaku tensei using a dead body was unbelievably huge probably bigger than konoha if nagato was going to do this healthy i really do believe he could make something much bigger than his original not the moon but a large asteroid anyway the main arguement is Nagato has much stronger techs and is much stronger he could be considered a demi-god and itachi is smarter and a tatical genius i just cant understand how you think itachi can fight v him but i think these fanboy threads are ending so we can all agree to disagee

first of all the chibaku tensei was not as big as konoha itself go back and see it, he himself said it is not close to the extent in which the rikudo senin could use. Now let me get to my point Itachi was never hurt so edo did not benefit him my point was that in a real 1vv1 if nagato gets hurt like he did twice in edo form he would not beat itachi cos he would not have arms and can't regenerate that is so obvious but u r trying to avoid it. I never said kabuto knew more about nagato than nagato himself but kabuto was good at using his powers very well knew how to temporarily kill naruto.

thelonghorn · Aug 20, 2011

ssDeadly said:
possibily the only relevent thing in this post above.
yes he would win and has allready won

That is completely ignoring the circumstances behind the fight--if we simply want to use the resolution as the end all, I'd say that Sasuke > Itachi.

Sasuke fought Itachi and won.

Also Konan is extremely powerful since she almost managed to take down Madara. I'm sure if she didn't suffer from "I'm going to tell you how I'm going to defeat you before I defeat you" disease, she would of killed Madara.

Inception · Aug 20, 2011

Twedros said:
his chibaku tensei using a dead body was unbelievably huge probably bigger than konoha if nagato was going to do this healthy i really do believe he could make something much bigger than his original not the moon but a large asteroid anyway the main arguement is Nagato has much stronger techs and is much stronger he could be considered a demi-god and itachi is smarter and a tatical genius i just cant understand how you think itachi can fight v him but i think these fanboy threads are ending so we can all agree to disagee

By using 6 bodies, Nagato divided his POWER into 6 parts. If he wanted to use large scale attacks, he had to "disable" all of the other bodies and put all his focus into one as seen countless times during his invasion. The large scale Chibaku Tensei was the same attack he just used in the manga. Only difference was that Itachi knew its weakness and countered it before he managed to pull everything up. Nagato's large scale Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei also leaves his God Realm powerless for some time.

Why do people think Nagato is a smart shinobi? He's all firepower and Rinnegan. His intelligence can't be compared to the intelligence of Shikamaru, Shino, Temari, Itachi, Minato, and even Kakashi. Like I said, he's raw power and nothing else. People overhype him because he has a Rinnegan and because he was supposedly the leader of Akatsuki. Do I need to remind you that Tobi is the founder, the real leader, telling Nagato what to do. Kabuto was doing all the thinking during this fight. NAGATO IS NOT WEAK but he is not as strong as Minato or Itachi. Even Jiraiya would beat him if Jiraiya knew his secret.

I don't understand why you don't see that Itachi already defeated him.

Inception · Aug 20, 2011

thelonghorn said:
That is completely ignoring the circumstances behind the fight--if we simply want to use the resolution as the end all, I'd say that Sasuke > Itachi.

Sasuke fought Itachi and won.

Also Konan is extremely powerful since she almost managed to take down Madara. I'm sure if she didn't suffer from "I'm going to tell you how I'm going to defeat you before I defeat you" disease, she would of killed Madara.

Circumstances? Like the part where he almost killed both Naruto and Bee?

Kyuubikiller · Aug 20, 2011

Inception said:
By using 6 bodies, Nagato divided his POWER into 6 parts. If he wanted to use large scale attacks, he had to "disable" all of the other bodies and put all his focus into one as seen countless times during his invasion. The large scale Chibaku Tensei was the same attack he just used in the manga. Only difference was that Itachi knew its weakness and countered it before he managed to pull everything up. Nagato's large scale Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei also leaves his God Realm powerless for some time.

Why do people think Nagato is a smart shinobi? He's all firepower and Rinnegan. His intelligence can't be compared to the intelligence of Shikamaru, Shino, Temari, Itachi, Minato, and even Kakashi. Like I said, he's raw power and nothing else. People overhype him because he has a Rinnegan and because he was supposedly the leader of Akatsuki. Do I need to remind you that Tobi is the founder, the real leader, telling Nagato what to do. Kabuto was doing all the thinking during this fight. NAGATO IS NOT WEAK but he is not as strong as Minato or Itachi. Even Jiraiya would beat him if Jiraiya knew his secret.

I don't understand why you don't see that Itachi already defeated him.

Wrong,

Itachi, Bee. and Naruto defeated him :flaw:

thelonghorn · Aug 20, 2011

ssDeadly said:
possibily the only relevent thing in this post above.
yes he would win and has allready won

Inception said:
Circumstances? Like the part where he almost killed both Naruto and Bee?

Exactly--if this was about Naruto/Bee vs Nagato, hands down Nagato would win (as we saw).

My point is that no matter how you cut it you aren't going to get a clear cut answer and we can go on for eternity about what ifs (what if there was no Edo, what if Itachi didn't have Bee/Naruto, what if Nagato got a hair cut).

We aren't going to get any answer to Nagato vs Itachi--at best I'd say "all things equal", it's still a coin toss.

arv993 · Aug 20, 2011

thelonghorn said:
Ok—I am going to attempt to wade through this thread and add my two cents. While the utility of arguing one side against the other in a work of fiction is as useful as solar-powered flashlights, I’ll try my best.

First and foremost, this fight is inherently biased due to the circumstances surrounding the fight.

If we wanted a clean cut answer, we’d need a full-powered Itachi versus full powered

Nagato facing each other without any ascendancy and most of all—alive. We aren’t afforded such luxuries.

Now if Itachi was alive, I’d expect that his Sharingan be subject to the observed eye-strain and stamina that we observed throughout the manga. Recall that the use of Ameratsu/Tsukoyomi took a toll on Itachi before (bleeding eyes and blurred vision) and that his overall disregard for his eye sight when facing Sasuke was due to his plan to die at his brother’s hands anyway. Nagato on the other hand (when facing Hanzo) did not suffer from any chakra draining effects and therefore would have higher stamina say Itachi. I’d argue that Nagato would not use “6 separate path bodies” since their use was only to exert control different regions over long distances.

However in his present unclear state, where he has control of his senses yet isn’t technically alive (as far as I know only Nagato can resurrect the dead completely), we don’t see any ill effects of overuse of the Sharingan. Obviously these are biased circumstance (unlimited Sharingan and life) by far the most powerful ninja.

Next—I am not convince that it was Nagato fighting of his own volition and instead it was Kabuto pulling the strings and commanding him. I argue this since prior to being “fully taken over”, both Itachi and Nagato move based on Kabuto’s actions and since they are aware of the signs/seals Kabuto is trying to force them to make, the can warn Bee/Naruto beforehand. I think when Kabuto “wipes” their bodies clean; he is taking complete control of the bodies. Another point is that Kabuto is unaware of the particular body’s power unless he had prior knowledge (as in Itachi’s Shinra ) . For example when Itachi breaks the Edo, Nagato immediately realizes what is going on however it only after Itachi explains it to Naruto, that Kabuto understands the power (having heard it through Nagato) and hence it able to counteract.

With all that said, here is what I think would happen in a clean 1 on 1 fight.

First I don’t think any of Itachi’s non-sharingan techniques would be effective since Nagato could absorb them. Of the Sharingan techniques we have Tsukoyomi, Ameratsu and Susanoo.

While there isn’t any direct evidence, I don’t think Tsukoyomi would be effective against Nagato—Bee was able to break through it (without the use of a Sharingan) and while someone argue that it’s because he is a tailed beast, I’d say the rarity of a Rinnegan (just 1 in existence) over 8 tailed beasts would lead me to believe the Rinnegan is stronger. Not to mention—why didn’t Itachi just use Tsukoymi on Nagato to end the battle?

Ameratsu wouldn’t be effective since it has been shown that Nagato can force push it away—I’m curious to see if he can absorb it as well.

So finally it would come down to Susanoo. The Yata mirror won’t be as effective since it only reflects incoming attacks—Nagato’s immense power is more through his defensive abilities (force push, celestial ball, chakra absorb). I do believe that the Totuska Sword will one-hit KO Nagato but as we know it takes time to form a full Susanoo and I am led to believe (from Sasuke’s Danzo battle) and the effect of Celestial Ball on Itachi Susanoo (it was clearly being absorbed), that it can be paralyzed.

So-overall I think it’s still a coin toss who would win.

If Nagato uses force pull/push (which seems to impact anything including Amaterasu), he could just drain all of Itachi’s chakra and render Susanoo (Itachi needs to use chakra to summon it) useless. If Itachi can summon a full Susanoo and maintain it (it would strain his eyes) he could win with a Totuska sword.

Fin

you have one major fact wrong bee did not break out of tsukiyomi but only a regular genjutsu tech from the sharingan. And we have no proof that it won't work on nagato. And who said it takes time for susano to get yata mirror and sword of totsuka he gained it really fast in his fight with sasuke why can't he do it again amd seal nagato fast and you forget that chibaku tensei is a slow attack compared to the sword. yata mirror reflects any attack and can block most of the attacks thrown by nagato. And why he didn't use genjutsu is becos he probably had no time he had to go save both bee and naruto from dying and once he got to safety nagato released the chibaku tensei at that point there is no reason to put nagato in genjutsu becos its a waste of time when there is a more imminent danger which is the chibaku tensei and its gravitational pull.

ssDeadly · Aug 20, 2011

Kyuubikiller said:
Wrong,

Itachi, Bee. and Naruto defeated him :flaw:

wrong bee and naruto where more of a liability. if they wern't there itachi would seal nagato straight away.

this chapter has obviously sent nagato fans in super denial mode

Inception · Aug 20, 2011

Kyuubikiller said:
Wrong,

Itachi, Bee. and Naruto defeated him :flaw:

You can see the fight as however you like. I saw Naruto and Bee both on the verge of death as Itachi rescued them. Itachi came up with the weakness/ tactics. He even told them how to attack.

Bee and Naruto just used 2 attacks which Itachi could have done by himself.

Like I said, your opinion is your opinion. I saw Itachi seal Nagato.

Itachi > Nagato.

kadowade · Aug 20, 2011

@TheLongHorn- Dude Please dont compare itachi to Sasuke.
And Bee only broke out of SASUKE'S Tsukiyomi because his was No where near Itachi level. and Bee has a Jinchuriki anyway. Madara Already said "Sasukes Tsukiyomi Is a Far cry From Itachi's.

And Amaterasu bruned nagato up, its just that he couldnt die since he was an Edo Tensei.

Why would Itachi Use Tsukiyomi on A Edo Tensei, THEY CANNOT DIE! SO itachi knew what he was doing, HE was smart enough TO SEAL HIM, instead of putting nagato under Agonizing Pain, until he dies, BUT nagato cant die since he was Edo Tesei, so it would make NO SENSE to use Tsukiyomi.

Nagato wouldve been dead if he wasent Edo Tensei, cuz he regenerated after he got Burnt by Amaterasu and when he regenerated his Arm back.

And Genjutsu IS effective against Nagato, JIRAYA CAUGHT HIM IN ONE Easily and yet people still say dumb shit like "Rinnegan counters genjutsu" lmao.NOWHERE do it states that Rinnegan is an counter against Genjutsu, all it does is Give THe user Ninjutsu abilities and Techniques like Shinra tensei and Etc.

So until it states that Nagato is resistant against genjutsu, ITachi wins..

Inception · Aug 20, 2011

kadowade said:
So until it states that Nagato is resistant against genjutsu, ITachi wins..

No need to explain it to people who choose to ignore the last chapter.

Itachi sealed Nagato after defeating him. /end

arv993 · Aug 20, 2011

nagato was saved by edo twice yet some ppl don't recognize it. in a 1v1 battle with no edo that would never happen if nagato lost his arms what can he do he won't be able to use most of his attacks that he has in his arsenal

arv993 · Aug 20, 2011

And for ppl saying that why didn't he use genjutsu go read the manga he had no time becos both naruto and bee had to be saved within which time nagato used the chiabku tensei.

You must be registered for see links

look as soon as itachi saved them kabuto made nagato use chibbaku tensei at which point there is no reason to put nagato in genjjutsu becos its a waste of time when he should actually be worried about chibaku tensei sucking him up inside.

Kyuubikiller · Aug 20, 2011

ssDeadly said:
wrong bee and naruto where more of a liability. if they wern't there itachi would seal nagato straight away.

this chapter has obviously sent nagato fans in super denial mode

oh, quite the contrary my friend!! See I am not a Negato fan, I actually lack the fanboyism that most people have on this site, but I know for sure that you are an Itachi fanboy because I've seen most of your posts on this thread, and you are one of the frequent posters, meaning you have to prove that you are right, even though you may not be (typical fanboy symptoms).

I only say Itachi would not have won if Naruto and Bee were there because it's true, liability or not, they were distractions that gave Itachi the opening to seal, not kill Negato. I won't argue with you because I know it's going to be a loose loose situation, but I just thought I'd let you know some of the truth since a lot of fanboys tend to have selective memories of what happened, but anyway, carry on sir!

thelonghorn · Aug 20, 2011

arv993 said:
you have one major fact wrong bee did not break out of tsukiyomi but only a regular genjutsu tech from the sharingan. And we have no proof that it won't work on nagato. And who said it takes time for susano to get yata mirror and sword of totsuka he gained it really fast in his fight with sasuke why can't he do it again amd seal nagato fast and you forget that chibaku tensei is a slow attack compared to the sword. yata mirror reflects any attack and can block most of the attacks thrown by nagato. And why he didn't use genjutsu is becos he probably had no time he had to go save both bee and naruto from dying and once he got to safety nagato released the chibaku tensei at that point there is no reason to put nagato in genjutsu becos its a waste of time when there is a more imminent danger which is the chibaku tensei and its gravitational pull.

I completely concede that Tsukiyomi could work on Nagato. On the timing of the Susanoo form, it does take time to complete it's form since but I guess that varies on Itachi's health at the time. I would argue that if it was instantaneous (we have a fully headed Itachi), why didn't he summon it in it's full form to save Bee/Naruto?

However Susanoo can be immobilized by the Celestial Moon technique, otherwise, Itachi could of summoned a fully Susanoo and Totuska sword Nagato instantly--instead he had to wait for the ninjutsi to be disrupted and to sword him.

Yata Mirror wise--yeah I agree. However most of Nagato's techniques aren't projectiles or even attacks but rather defensive maneuver The big question really is whether Nagato can absorb Susanoo.

Inception · Aug 20, 2011