Sasuke did NOT have his powers given to him

Sasuke of the akatsuki

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it isn't for "free" he had to lose someone close to him and that's surely isn't "free". to feel heart wrenching pain sucks, no one would want that.

following that it's like saying itachi, madara, shisui all the other uchiha got their MS for free

and getting the MS was the culmination of all his hard work, remember Itachi always pushed him "you're not strong enough", "get strong". he worked hard to get his 3 tomoe and even harder to reach a point where he could kill Itachi.
EMS also isn't free since someone close to you has to die (have their eyes removeed). and besides EMS is the peak of his sharingan. it's like kyuubi/chakra mode is the peak of Naruto's kyuubi power. so that means Naruto got his kyuubi mode for free then

I just want to say that i argee with you to an extent:
1st bold: Your right Sasuke did have to work to some extent to even have a decent chance of beating Itachi. And when sasuke heard the truth about itachi he unlocked ms due to his strong emotions. All the sharingan forms(tomoe 1 and ms to be specific) are granted to the user due to strong emotions. And it is hard to get over the death of a loved one, but it makes you stronger in due time. And people who say itachi gave sasuke his ms powers are wrong, he only gave sasuke amaterasu, but then again it was only a 1 time thing and sasuke couldn't control it at will.

2nd bold: Technically, ems is free if you have good medic skills. Sasuke couldn't just go to itachi's corpse and lolplop out his eyes and put them in his eye sockets. He needed madara who obviously had good medic skills to transplant eyes, if sasuke were to do it by himeself he would mess up and be blind foreverU_U. And madara did kind of get ems for free to since Izuna let madara take his eyes.

But yeah, i argee to a extent. But sasuke did get CM, Cm stage 2 and lee movements for free.
 

captainEO

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Uchiha's chakra are more SENISTER not BETTER or LARGER ...

in Term of Sizes .... Yes Uzumaki have bigger Chakra reserves ... thats is why all 3 Jinchuuriki of Kyuubi were Uzumakis ....
and also Jiraiya didn't have kyuubi inside of him yet he learned Sage mode ...



Read that ... Uzumaki have also large STAMINA reserves ... and in Naruto case ...

STAMINA = CHAKRA ... :flaw:

The Uchiha were known for really powerful chakra, larger

I'm pretty sure the only reason the Uzumaki were hosts was because they knew fuinjutsu.

Jiraiya is an exception because he had unusually high chakra. Naruto may have a lot of chakra but the Uchiha outclass him, it says here the Sage's older son got the powerful chakra
 

captainEO

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I just want to say that i argee with you to an extent:
1st bold: Your right Sasuke did have to work to some extent to even have a decent chance of beating Itachi. And when sasuke heard the truth about itachi he unlocked ms due to his strong emotions. All the sharingan forms(tomoe 1 and ms to be specific) are granted to the user due to strong emotions. And it is hard to get over the death of a loved one, but it makes you stronger in due time. And people who say itachi gave sasuke his ms powers are wrong, he only gave sasuke amaterasu, but then again it was only a 1 time thing and sasuke couldn't control it at will.

2nd bold: Technically, ems is free if you have good medic skills. Sasuke couldn't just go to itachi's corpse and lolplop out his eyes and put them in his eye sockets. He needed madara who obviously had good medic skills to transplant eyes, if sasuke were to do it by himeself he would mess up and be blind foreverU_U. And madara did kind of get ems for free to since Izuna let madara take his eyes.

But yeah, i argee to a extent. But sasuke did get CM, Cm stage 2 and lee movements for free.

fine EMS is free but only in certain situations. if your brother isn't willing to give you his eyes, you're going to have a tough time. I suppose in this situation Sasuke got it "free"

but i disagree with curse mark and lee's speed
 

Exaar

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[
That was only transcription seal Amaterasu
A once off thing.
He first awoke his mangekyou on the cliff (after the truth about Itachi was revealed)
Sasuke awoke Susano'o, Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi on his own

Madara says diffrent

 

captainEO

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[

Madara says diffrent


that's either an error or Madara just made a mistake and thought Itachi had transferred all of his techniques to Sasuke when it was really only a once off Amaterasu
 

~Hebi Terumi~

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Things Sasuke has been given: Curse Mark Lv.1 and Lv.2. Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan (by way of Itachi) and Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

All the variations of the Sharingan (1 Tomoe, 2 Tomoe, 3 Tomoe are just his Sharingan advancing itself due to his genetics and blah blah blah.)

Other Things Sasuke has been given: Chidori (And he barely even needed to work at this because copying Lee's Taijutsu earlier aided him in this)

Things Sasuke has earned with no help: Fire Jutsu, Kirin, and his other variations on the chidori.
 

Talk No Jutsu

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The Uchiha were known for really powerful chakra, larger

I'm pretty sure the only reason the Uzumaki were hosts was because they knew fuinjutsu.

Jiraiya is an exception because he had unusually high chakra. Naruto may have a lot of chakra but the Uchiha outclass him, it says here the Sage's older son got the powerful chakra

Like I said .... Powerful Chakra =/= Lots of Chakra ... Yea sure ... the Older Son got the Sage's eyes and Chakra ...

and even if the Uchiha got Sage's chakra ... then why did Itachi have below AVERAGE level Chakra ...if the Uchiha got the sage's chakra then why has Naruto got more chakra than Sasuke ...

so Powerful chakra =/= Lots of Chakra ...


and Jiraiya isn't unusual .. Tsunade has lots of Chakra is well ... so goes Gaara ... and other Jinchuurikis ... and Minato has is well ... Naruto isn't skilled with Fuinjutsu ... He only opened the cage and put a different seal on ... that is it as far as we have seen from naruto being an Uzumaki...
 

Frozenstein

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Like I said .... Powerful Chakra =/= Lots of Chakra ... Yea sure ... the Older Son got the Sage's eyes and Chakra ...

and even if the Uchiha got Sage's chakra ... then why did Itachi have below AVERAGE level Chakra ...if the Uchiha got the sage's chakra then why has Naruto got more chakra than Sasuke ...

so Powerful chakra =/= Lots of Chakra ...


and Jiraiya isn't unusual .. Tsunade has lots of Chakra is well ... so goes Gaara ... and other Jinchuurikis ... and Minato has is well ... Naruto isn't skilled with Fuinjutsu ... He only opened the cage and put a different seal on ... that is it as far as we have seen from naruto being an Uzumaki...

lol that frog in your sig...! X"D
 

Shisui Namikaze

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That was only transcription seal Amaterasu
A once off thing.
He first awoke his mangekyou on the cliff (after the truth about Itachi was revealed)
Sasuke awoke Susano'o, Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi on his own

Okay well why when he first used it on Madara itachi's MS showed up on his eye. Explain that please
 

Exaar

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that's either an error or Madara just made a mistake and thought Itachi had transferred all of his techniques to Sasuke when it was really only a once off Amaterasu

So madara is wrong and you are right?:|
 

kotoamatsukami

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plus da three years with oro yall think he just sat around naw i bet he trained hard
 

captainEO

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Okay well why when he first used it on Madara itachi's MS showed up on his eye. Explain that please

well, that's how the transcription seal works. itachi's mangekyou appears and performs the sealed jutsu - Amaterasu
 

captainEO

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Like I said .... Powerful Chakra =/= Lots of Chakra ... Yea sure ... the Older Son got the Sage's eyes and Chakra ...

and even if the Uchiha got Sage's chakra ... then why did Itachi have below AVERAGE level Chakra ...if the Uchiha got the sage's chakra then why has Naruto got more chakra than Sasuke ...

so Powerful chakra =/= Lots of Chakra ...


and Jiraiya isn't unusual .. Tsunade has lots of Chakra is well ... so goes Gaara ... and other Jinchuurikis ... and Minato has is well ... Naruto isn't skilled with Fuinjutsu ... He only opened the cage and put a different seal on ... that is it as far as we have seen from naruto being an Uzumaki...

well Itachi was sick
".if the Uchiha got the sage's chakra then why has Naruto got more chakra than Sasuke"
because of the kyuubi itself and its mixing

plus da three years with oro yall think he just sat around naw i bet he trained hard

exactly
 

Talk No Jutsu

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well Itachi was sick
".if the Uchiha got the sage's chakra then why has Naruto got more chakra than Sasuke"
because of the kyuubi itself and its mixing

You don't get it ...

I said without kyuubi ... Naruto has more Chakra ... Rewatch the Rasenshuriken training or perhaps the tree climbing practice ...

Kakashi mentions that Naruto has 4 times more chakra than Kakashi, that figure would be 100 times more if Yamato wasn't supressing the Kyuubi...

and if Itachi was sick ... it had nothing to do with that ... Itachi had low stamina from begining.:flaw:
 

-Hades-

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it may take months for naruto to learn to use a certain jutsu
it will take sasuke a week. why? because sasuke is a genius, he's smarter than naruto and he learns quicker

when naruto struggles to perform jutsu, he will moan, scream and cry out.
when sasuke struggles to perform a jutsu, he will behave calmly and remain collected. why? because he's cool and his character was made that way

because of these two things it appears like Sasuke does not work hard when that is not the case.

in addition like i said in my previous post, if i were to give you a katana and told you train to use it. a week later you'd suck, a month you'd still suck, several months later you'd be terrible, several years later you'd only be decent.
"Given" mangekyou sharingan doesn't = full mastery over it

Actually Sasuke only learns things faster and can also master them faster because of his sharingan. And so what if Naruto has a different way of learning... he Mastered rasengan in 1 week and also CREATED rasenshuriken in like 1 week as well
And yea it takes immense skill to look at someone and set him on fire, or to use a huge sipirual being (Susanoo) with your mind... or look into ones eyes and trap them in a genjutsu..

naruto would not have sage mode without kyuubi. he would have died a long time ago. uzumaki = 2nd rate senju

Of course he would... The Uzumaki have the biggest chakra reserves so far. (note there is a difference between strong chakra and huge amounts of chakra) So that, added to his own huge stamina = immense chakra reserves... yea the kiuby's chakra would mix with his own, but only a small amount like 1/5 of his chakra or even less, if it were more... well you know what happens

And Fukasaku said that without extreme chakra reserves one cannot learn sage mode/senjutsu.

Also are you saying Uzumaki chakra > Uchiha chakra (the most feared + respected clan in the manga). Naruto's natural, unmixed chakra can't be greater than an Uchiha's

that's why Jyraia learned it right?
And about Uzumaki chakra < Uchiha... go read the manga again... it was clearly stated that the uzumakis have huge chakra reserves... yea the uchiha have STRONG chakra, but there is a difference.

And now back to what was given to him and what not?
The sharingan comes from being an Uchiha (yea he was gifted to awaken it) and worked for his 2 and 3 tomoes.
The curse mark WAS GIVEN to him by oro, and curse mark lvl 2 as well... and don't give me crap, he was the one who accepted the whole thing, it was his choice (to go for lvl 2 and all that) Yea it was somewhat damaging and all but at the same time it gave him power... He did train to master it, and to gain battle experience while he was with Oro.
MS? Itachi chose for him to awaken it... he would have died either way... but he chose to die by Sasuke's hands (when he sealed oro, he could have sealed Sasuke as well, but he didn't) so don't tell me he did beat Itachi...
Also you don't train for the MS abilities, they come as they are, you don't learn them... and you can't say that you can train with them (you'll go blind)

So in the end he worked for: a little taijutsu, fire jutsu, Chidory and its variations, combat experience, mastering his cursed mark... and the rest... given.
 

captainEO

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You don't get it ...

I said without kyuubi ... Naruto has more Chakra ... Rewatch the Rasenshuriken training or perhaps the tree climbing practice ...

Kakashi mentions that Naruto has 4 times more chakra than Kakashi, that figure would be 100 times more if Yamato wasn't supressing the Kyuubi...

and if Itachi was sick ... it had nothing to do with that ... Itachi had low stamina from begining.:flaw:

I remember those events like it was just yesterday. I know
Kakashi said during chakra control training that when he grows up his chakra would be even greater than his own and Sasuke's

And I remember the wind training about 4 times chakra Naruto has over Kakashi.

but "that figure would be 100 times more if Yamato wasn't supressing the Kyuubi..." that's the kyuubi's own chakra e.g. kyuubi/chakra mode. that would be his chakra with the kyuubi's.

but you're right I know that Naruto has tons of chakra ordinarily it is larger than Sasuke's. but since it's never really been stated we don't know if his chakra would have been that large had he not had the kyuubi's mix with it.
 

captainEO

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Actually Sasuke only learns things faster and can also master them faster because of his sharingan. And so what if Naruto has a different way of learning... he Mastered rasengan in 1 week and also CREATED rasenshuriken in like 1 week as well
And yea it takes immense skill to look at someone and set him on fire, or to use a huge sipirual being (Susanoo) with your mind... or look into ones eyes and trap them in a genjutsu..

perhaps I shouldn't have used a jutsu as an example. i don't know how to phrase it and i'm too lazy to think (what a drag) okay
simply put
sasuke is smarter than naruto - this is established, everyone knows this
sasuke is a genius - this is also established, everyone knows this
i'll leave it to you to put two and two together

if you can't then genius = you learn things quicker, easier, with less effort than others. okay, because you have a greater aptitude, talent, disposition to the task at hand, the skill
examples - Kakashi, minato, orochimaru, itachi, madara, the list goes on...

because of this quality or trait of his
he appears to not work hard, because things come easy to him (naturally). but nevertheless work is needed to acquire skill regardless of how difficult it is for one.

and i present to you relative difficulty. sasuke's characters has also been established to be "cool", "calm", "shrewd" examples - minato, kakashi, orochimaru, itachi...
because of this quality or trait of his
he doesn't explicitly show how difficult something is for him. he may find something extremely difficult but simply doesn't show it because of this "cool" characteristic.

relative difficulty - because of his genius nature, he's able to learn things quickly and the acquisition of said skill may seem easy when in actuality it certainly is not.

this means his intelligence makes things seem easy when in fact they're extremely difficult.
so it may seem like learning chidori or copying lee's moves or developing his sharingan was a walk in the park it wasn't - he worked hard but his effort is lost on us because we don't see him train
 

LeafSpirit 20

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Well he did train hard for chidori, and his sharingan came naturally to him, and all the other powers were either given by the curse mark, or by itachi, so i guess youre right. But narutos nine tail fox was also given to him, and that has helped him quite a lot in the story
 

captainEO

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MS? Itachi chose for him to awaken it... he would have died either way... but he chose to die by Sasuke's hands (when he sealed oro, he could have sealed Sasuke as well, but he didn't) so don't tell me he did beat Itachi...
Also you don't train for the MS abilities, they come as they are, you don't learn them... and you can't say that you can train with them (you'll go blind)

So in the end he worked for: a little taijutsu, fire jutsu, Chidory and its variations, combat experience, mastering his cursed mark... and the rest... given.

Sasuke awoke MS on his own, he knew about it ever since he read the Uchiha shrine tablet
and I know Itachi beat Sasuke

MS isn't given - you don't hand it over to someone "here you go". it doesn't work like that

also "given" does NOT = full mastery of it

"Also you don't train for the MS abilities, they come as they are, you don't learn them... and you can't say that you can train with them (you'll go blind)"
i'm too lazy to formulate an argument but i'll give you this :flaw:
 
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