Pain isn't that fast so Itachi will beat all of them with Amaterasu and if not all, at least 5. And Itachi fights with intelligent. We didn't see Pain using much of intelligent when he fought Naruto, he's just spamming shinra tensei. Shinra tensei can't destroy Susanoo, it will just push it away.
[Discussion] Pain and Itachi
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Maina Deah
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First and foremost, thanks for reviving an old, dead topic. Might I mention a topic that has been made couple of 100 times on these forums.
1. Genjutsu works on Pain. Itachi is known for his genjutsus.
2. The frog song genjutsu was cast on 3 bodies that were fighting Jiraiya.
3. Itachi can cast genjutsus on more than one person at a time. This has been proven in the manga during Kakashi's encounter with him AND the recent manga where Ao and Shikaku were discussing how Itachi is the only person able to "control" people from outside their sensor's range. From what I saw, Kakashi knew that Tsukiyomi can affect more than 1 person at a time. Why else would he tell EVERYONE to close their eyes?
4. Let me remind you once again that we're discussing a full powered Itachi vs. full powered Nagato. Itachi spammed Amaterasu so many times in Sasuke's fight that I lost count. Yes, he has a low chakra reserve but I'm sure he can cast Tsukiyomi at least 6 times at full power if he needed to. He controlled a full-powered Susano'o for some time when he was on the verge of death.
And you're saying Deva Path's Chibaku Tensei would end the match? The fact that you said "this may work" is funny. Do you know how long it takes to form Chibaku Tensei? Do you know that Itachi has Yata's Mirror and Blade of Totsuka? The speed of Susano'o? Do you know that Susano'o is also known to be an ultimate defense? You're saying Chibaku Tensei will crush Susano'o, gg for Pain. Eight-tails was able to break out of it by just firing lazers lol, have you read the manga of Sasuke's using his incomplete Susano'o? Pain is very well able to outlast Itachi based on their chakra reserve but Chikabu Tensei, really? IMO, it's just being overpowered by people like you. I saw nothing special in that technique; it's just fancy looking. His Shinra Tensei is better.
If you're going to bring up an argument, least you can do is back it up.
moudhgalya
Member
Now this should be fun .
Its a sound based genjutsu . Who ever hear it are going to fall in to the Genjustu . Going by your godly logic Nagato should have heard it too and should have been affected by it .
And he appeared in the Genjutsu ..oh wait he didn't.
The managa wasn't talking about Tsukoyomi in particular . It could have been one of his mind control jutsus like the one he used on Deidara.
I am asking you just one question . Can Itachi use 6 Tsukoyomi's at once without dying?
He used one Tsukoyomi and one amaterasu . And then proceeded to use Susanoo.
And provide proof that Amaterasu costs as much chakra as Tsukoyomi.
I would like you to show the chakra capacity of a full powered Itachi .
Atleast six times ..wtf?
Do you have any Idea about what you are even talking about .
Pain can keep Itachi more than busy with missile spam, summons and lasers enabling Deva to prepare his CT.
The CT that you are talking about was created by a Nagato who just soloed Konoha and was exhausted . He also said that he could make a stronger CT.
A full powered CT would have crushed the 8 tails .
And what are the feats of Totsuka sword . Cutting a bunch of snakes?
Now would you kindly provide its mountain busting feats?
What exactly did Sasuke's incomplete Susanoo tank that is any where near as destructive as CT?
Common knowledge is common.
Yeah so what ?
Its a sound based genjutsu . Who ever hear it are going to fall in to the Genjustu . Going by your godly logic Nagato should have heard it too and should have been affected by it .
And he appeared in the Genjutsu ..oh wait he didn't.
Kakashi had no Idea about Tsukoyomi when they met for the first time .
The managa wasn't talking about Tsukoyomi in particular . It could have been one of his mind control jutsus like the one he used on Deidara.
I am asking you just one question . Can Itachi use 6 Tsukoyomi's at once without dying?
*Epic facepalm*
He used one Tsukoyomi and one amaterasu . And then proceeded to use Susanoo.
And provide proof that Amaterasu costs as much chakra as Tsukoyomi.
I would like you to show the chakra capacity of a full powered Itachi .
Atleast six times ..wtf?
LOLwut?
Do you have any Idea about what you are even talking about .
Pain can keep Itachi more than busy with missile spam, summons and lasers enabling Deva to prepare his CT.
The CT that you are talking about was created by a Nagato who just soloed Konoha and was exhausted . He also said that he could make a stronger CT.
A full powered CT would have crushed the 8 tails .
And what are the feats of Totsuka sword . Cutting a bunch of snakes?
Now would you kindly provide its mountain busting feats?
What exactly did Sasuke's incomplete Susanoo tank that is any where near as destructive as CT?
I would love to see how you are going to back up your claims.
NamkazeNaruto
Banned
U GUYS FORGOT ONE THING
CHUBAKU FKING TENSEI
That jutsu can destroy the susanoo
i can bring up a whole bunch of arguments , about how pein can absorb the sword's effects , about how pain (im sure ) can break through susanoo with Shinra tensei
CHUBAKU FKING TENSEI
That jutsu can destroy the susanoo
i can bring up a whole bunch of arguments , about how pein can absorb the sword's effects , about how pain (im sure ) can break through susanoo with Shinra tensei
Captain Shodai
Active member
pain has the stamina to outlast itachi's susano'o... susano'o would tire itachi out, then pain would win
You didn't provide anything. All you did was say "lolwut" *facepalm* and made up bunch of bullshit.
If the sound genjutsu effected Nagato's 3 bodies then so would Tsukiyomi or any other normal genjutsu cast on Nagato's bodies. What do you not understand? Itachi was far better at genjutsu than Jiraiya or his toads.
Jiraiya's genjutsu was a SOUND based genjutsu. Nagato wasn't present to hear the sound but it still left the 3 bodies immobilized. They don't have minds of their own so it technically shouldn't have effected them but why did it? Why did Nagato strike AFTER the genjutsu was over? Because HE WAS TRAPPED IN THE GENJUTSU. Just because you did not see him in between the frogs does not mean he was not effected. Fact is Nagato did not make a move until after the genjutsu was over. Of course, his real body didn't take any damage because Jiraiya only destroyed the 3 dead ones. Is it easier to understand now?
You can say Kakashi didn't know all you want. He knew exactly what Itachi was referring to when he used his Mangekyou Sharingan. Why else would he close his eyes? And yes, the manga was talking about the Tsukiyomi. Please go back and re-read it. Itachi used his EYES after explaining the difference in his Sharingan (Uchiha) and Kakashi's Sharingan (non-Uchiha).
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To answer your question, yes he can. He spammed Amaterasu. He didn't use it once. He used it to engulf Sasuke's normal fire jutsu. Then he proceeded to spam it until it hit Sasuke. Do you remember him missing and hitting the trees around the battlefield?
Let me ask you a question since know the answer very well. How much chakra does Tsukiyomo and Amaterasu cost? Provide proof.
Pain can keep Itachi busy but he can't get through Susano'o, can he? One pierce from the blade and the body is sealed. Kirin didn't hurt Susano'o ffs. IMO, that strikes faster and harder than Chibaku Tensei and it couldn't get through Susano'o + Yata's Mirror.
Btw, Pain didn't say he can make CT stronger. He said the Sage of 6 Paths made the moon and what he made is nothing compared to the So6P's power. Given he can make a much powerful CT at full strength, Itachi would have a better Susano'o.
Lmao the feats of Blade of Totsuka? It seals anything it pierces. It's not carried by Itachi either, Susano'o carries it just in case you didn't know. Equipped with Yata's Mirror; a shield that changes its own property to repel ALL attacks.
I was talking about the firepower of Sasuke's incomplete Susano'o btw.
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DigitalMonster
Active member
Pro-Itachi Argument
Sharingan genjutsu seems to be image-based. If you see the image, the genjutsu takes you: which is why projection works. Nagato is essentially having Pain project images for him in a security-camera panel, meaning that Nagato is potentially vulnerable to Sharingan genjutsu prokejection, like Tsukuyomi. The Frog Song is a different type of genjutsu, but it may have also affected Nagato:
Nagato said "you got me" and was chatting inside the genjutsu world while his entire body and Pain was paralyzed so that they couldn't move an inch. Hence Nagato was in the genjutsu speaking, because Animal Realm lacks a mind of its own. This is supported by his late attack with Asura: after Jiriaya summoned those swords to stick in the Pain bodies. Coincidentally, the databook says the genjutsu isn't typically lifted until the swords were already in, which means that was when Nagato was set free, and allowed him to attack through Asura.
Itachi dragged and sustained his Amaterasu, lighting an entire forest on fire with one Amaterasu. The benefits of sustaining and dragging his Amaterasu against multiple opponents instead of trees, such as the Six Paths, is obvious. If Nagato is avoiding his eyes, then he probably can't react like A did. It's highly unlikely Nagato can match his A's shrouded reflexes, and Itachi's Amaterasu burns hotter than Sasuke's thus far, and was activated while running at full speed towards a wall five feet away (very quickly.) It can cause some issues, but more importantly, it can be used in conjunction with Susano'o defense if necessary.
It's a common mistake to assume Susano'o is a primarily defensive jutsu. It's not. The databook first and foremost hypes the perfect flawlessness in offense that presumably surpasses his other two techniques. It caught Orochimaru in between words, right in front of him, without him even noticing, when other speed demons get whole sentences off. Kakashi and Danzō had to use seal-less jutsu to deflect Susano'o attacks because they were so unavoidably fast, and Sasuke only recently attained Itachi's level of Susano'o, which the author decided was a power-up to save for later. The Yata Mirror (and probably Totsuka) can extend itself as required, as it is formless, and change nature and form to counter any jutsu. The databook indicates there is a possibility that Shinra Tensei would be rejected, as would Preta's ninjutsu be countered by the legendary item.
Lastly and most importantly, Itachi is possibly the greatest genjutsu user to ever exist, eclipsing even Madara by reputation. Ao and Shikaku implied he can take control of people at large ranges. Considering that Nagato is looking through six cameras, if four of those cameras were infected with a virus producing false imagery, then Pain might begin attacking itself. That isn't to say that Pain is weak against genjutsu, or any genjutsu user...it's just that Itachi is the very best.
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Sharingan genjutsu seems to be image-based. If you see the image, the genjutsu takes you: which is why projection works. Nagato is essentially having Pain project images for him in a security-camera panel, meaning that Nagato is potentially vulnerable to Sharingan genjutsu prokejection, like Tsukuyomi. The Frog Song is a different type of genjutsu, but it may have also affected Nagato:
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Nagato said "you got me" and was chatting inside the genjutsu world while his entire body and Pain was paralyzed so that they couldn't move an inch. Hence Nagato was in the genjutsu speaking, because Animal Realm lacks a mind of its own. This is supported by his late attack with Asura: after Jiriaya summoned those swords to stick in the Pain bodies. Coincidentally, the databook says the genjutsu isn't typically lifted until the swords were already in, which means that was when Nagato was set free, and allowed him to attack through Asura.
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Itachi dragged and sustained his Amaterasu, lighting an entire forest on fire with one Amaterasu. The benefits of sustaining and dragging his Amaterasu against multiple opponents instead of trees, such as the Six Paths, is obvious. If Nagato is avoiding his eyes, then he probably can't react like A did. It's highly unlikely Nagato can match his A's shrouded reflexes, and Itachi's Amaterasu burns hotter than Sasuke's thus far, and was activated while running at full speed towards a wall five feet away (very quickly.) It can cause some issues, but more importantly, it can be used in conjunction with Susano'o defense if necessary.
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It's a common mistake to assume Susano'o is a primarily defensive jutsu. It's not. The databook first and foremost hypes the perfect flawlessness in offense that presumably surpasses his other two techniques. It caught Orochimaru in between words, right in front of him, without him even noticing, when other speed demons get whole sentences off. Kakashi and Danzō had to use seal-less jutsu to deflect Susano'o attacks because they were so unavoidably fast, and Sasuke only recently attained Itachi's level of Susano'o, which the author decided was a power-up to save for later. The Yata Mirror (and probably Totsuka) can extend itself as required, as it is formless, and change nature and form to counter any jutsu. The databook indicates there is a possibility that Shinra Tensei would be rejected, as would Preta's ninjutsu be countered by the legendary item.
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Lastly and most importantly, Itachi is possibly the greatest genjutsu user to ever exist, eclipsing even Madara by reputation. Ao and Shikaku implied he can take control of people at large ranges. Considering that Nagato is looking through six cameras, if four of those cameras were infected with a virus producing false imagery, then Pain might begin attacking itself. That isn't to say that Pain is weak against genjutsu, or any genjutsu user...it's just that Itachi is the very best.
Piratefish
Active member
Audio-based genjutsu is proven to work on Pain. As far as I can remember, every single genjutsu cast by Itachi was through a visual link, and even the Tsukuyomi can be broken, as proved by Sasuke and his regular Sharingan. If Sasuke can break the Tsukuyomi, I think it's fair to say Pain can too.
Amaterasu is countered by ninjutsu-absorption or Shinra Tensei.
Susano'o is countered by Shinra or Chibaku Tensei.
You saw nothing special in being entombed in your own personal moon? You're not easily impressed. The idea that Itachi would survive in there is laughable, let alone break free. Yes, Eight-Tails Kyuubi was able to break free. Wow, that technique sucks, i mean, if your jutsu can't contain the most powerful demon in existence at almost full power it's just not worth mentioning in polite company.
Fight goes to Pain.
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