[Discussion] Sasori remains the best in the Sand Village?

[natssuu]

Sakura and Chiyo defeated Sasori... Gaara would beat Sasori easily.

 

[meimei]

Sasori is an amazing Shinobi! His skills are incredible. I just found that it was his psychological make-up that was his greatest weakness. It was this that led to his downfall.

BTW, amazing thread and opinions here stated by everyone. It's refreshing to read.

 

[leafeater]

Sakura and Chiyo defeated Sasori... Gaara would beat Sasori easily.

1a.) It's not that simple. Transitive inference almost never works in Naruto: Gaara> Chiyo+Sakura>Sasori doesn't work because it never works. In Naruto it's almost always about the specific matchups, so it makes it difficult to generalize. Personally, I think that Gaara might beat Sasori because I think control over the sand using the Shukaku's power is stronger than iron sand and gold dust (which I consider an imitation of the Shukaku's power), but the thing with Sasori is his poison. Just one scratch and you die or a poison cloud.

1b.) The key issue is once Sasori's attack just touches you, you're going to die unless you're a very special ninja, and if that happens, the best you can do is try to force a draw in a matter of minutes. It's far more important than his 3rd Kazekage puppet, or 100 puppet technique, red sands, etc. Further, virtually every attack he has contains poison. I think a lot of people miss this.

2a.) That fight had story no jutsu all over it. Sasori conveniently left behind his poison in Kankorou that only Sakura was able to create the antidotes for; further, Sakura was trained over the time skip in evasion (medics can't get hit, which made the Heaven's gate bridge scene funny, lol) by Tsunade, perfect for this fight because of the poison.

2b.) Chiyo was his grandmother who raised him and taught him puppetry, giving her a grasp of his personality, habbits, including knowing about Hiruko. Further, she knew almost all of Sasori's secrets and quickly deduced others using her knowledge of him and being a former leader of the puppet division, 'secrets', which we've seen time and again are an invaluable asset to major ninja battle (e.g. the difference in outcome between Jiraiya vs. Nagato and Naruto vs. Nagato).

You couldn't ask for a better pairing. You could ask for a more powerful one (e.g. Itachi + Nagato), but not one that has a perfect counter for what Sasori does.

3.) Besides, if I recall correctly (it was a long time ago...), but didn't Sasori, when he had the opportunity, not dodge (i.e. send his core to another puppet) the death blow from the mother/father puppets?

Spoiler

(so that he could die being embraced by them essentially -- that's my interpretation anyway, tragic/peaceful/poetic).

4a.) Personally, I think Gaara is a good matchup for Sasori because of his absolute defense and his sand is excellent for crowd control against all those puppets, allowing him to attack and defend simultaneously. Given that they'll both keep they're range is actually good for Gaara since he'll need the reaction time addition from the distance. Obviously if one of Sasori's attack's lands, it's over.

4b.) Neither should be underestimated, and not all the votes for Gaara are just popularity votes, albeit it is a factor I suppose (but it usually works both ways just to a lesser degree). I understand why some underestimate Sasori, since he was around for so little time, and in his only big battle he lost, but it was preordained. Thus, it's not like Kishi did him justice by giving him such high qualifications (e.g. kidnapping and making a human puppet out of the most powerful Kazekage for now, red sands) and abilities (poisons, 3rd Kazekage puppet, 100 puppets, Hiruko, etc.) then to go out like as quickly as a lit match.

4c.) However, I don't see this as an open/shut case of Sasori dominating Gaara, and if we did this same fight 100 times Gaara is gonna win a significant number. I'm waiting until 548 (I think that that's the next one, to see what happens to Gaara's game, as it's likely to go up). The fight's a little complicated aside from the poison, yet tractable.

Peace.

:kakashi::naruto::sakura::sasuke:

 

[YetiCrab]

No reason to act all smart-ass without proper facts. Kankuro suprassed and edo tensei version of Sasori, which is weaker (any edo tensei seemed weaker than its actual shinobi. Also, Sasori didn't have any of the puppets that actually made him strong. He was basically human Sasori without any weapons...

The edo-tensei versions wasn't "weaker" than they where before. Kishi has often stated trough the manga that they had their usual powers. It's just the current living shinobi that has grown stronger, and has surpassed their previous masters and so on. It straight out states that Kankuro has surpassed Sasori, it's naive to think otherwise when the manga (kishi) actually says so.

 

[Avani]

@ leaf eater..

Back in your element. + Rep.

 

[YetiCrab]

It's really simple even the guy who wrote the manga stated that Sasori defeated the strongest Kazekage ever from the sand.

This would make him the strongest currently until stated otherwise.

Everything else is just speculation.

Sakura beat sasori with help from that old woman, how can anyone say that he is stronger than Gaara lol

 

[leafeater]

The edo-tensei versions wasn't "weaker" than they where before. Kishi has often stated trough the manga that they had their usual powers. It's just the current living shinobi that has grown stronger, and has surpassed their previous masters and so on. It straight out states that Kankuro has surpassed Sasori, it's naive to think otherwise when the manga (kishi) actually says so.

I know he said his black sands technique surpassed Sasori's red sands technique, but I don't recall him generalizing to overall ability. Kankorou (if I recall correctly, and I admit to being hazy) said his problem was that Sasori had poured his soul into his puppets when he was alive, which made them so great, but he lost that at some point (perhaps as an Edo Tensei). I have to reread, you may be right.

Personally, I can't think of single Edo Tensei that has performed as well as they did when they were alive. It's a major question, and I don't think that the answer lies in just saying that the next generation surpassed the old. As well, sure Sasori had his usual powers, but he didn't have his tools, which his entire fighting style was based on, namely his puppets of which Kankuro was using Sasori's old human puppet, so he was at a major disadvantage there.

The 'old' living Sasori would've killed Kankuro at the beginning of Shippuuden with ease if not for Sakura saving his ass with the antidote.

@YetiCrab

Sakura beat sasori with help from that old woman, how can anyone say that he is stronger than Gaara lol

See the posts, Gaara doesn't have an antidote to the poison like Sakura. Unless you can guarantee Sasori will never land a single blow on Gaara, which might happen somehow. Unfortunately, things aren't so simple.


Peace

 

[Anub]

Basically, your entire post is build on assumptions.You're using abc logic which proves northing.Just because sasori beat the third doesn't mean he could beat the rest..quite simple..

-The third could have been drugged up while he was taken away, but a strong kage fights back drugged or not hence the struggle.

-Kankuro did surpass sasori.Edo zombie or not.Kishi even made it clear last week that they have the same power levels.

-You have no way of knowing if gaara is dumber than the third

-The young surpasses the old, so the experiance thing proves nothing unless we see some prove.

- Every thing indicates (especially the last couple of weeks) Gaara surpassed not only his dad but the rest of them.People see him as their hero and savior and Gaara possesses the shukaku's powers without it being inside of him.


btw, you have orochimaru as one of the weakest members of akatsuki?

"Basically, your entire post is build on assumptions" - hence the possibility of a debate...

"Kankuro did surpass sasori" -that's more of an assumption than my whole 1st post. You haven't seen Sasori at full power fight Kankuro or have you ?

"The young surpasses the old" - and there are exceptions, or it takes the young a little bit longer to surpass the old. Or are you insinuating that Madara should be the weakest guy on the battlefield? Come on.

"Gaara surpassed not only his dad but the rest of them" - I haven't seen anything big from Gaara yet.

"btw, you have orochimaru as one of the weakest members of akatsuki?" - haven't put him in the line-up, I mentioned it there.

Sakura and Chiyo defeated Sasori... Gaara would beat Sasori easily.

No.

The edo-tensei versions wasn't "weaker" than they where before. Kishi has often stated trough the manga that they had their usual powers. It's just the current living shinobi that has grown stronger, and has surpassed their previous masters and so on. It straight out states that Kankuro has surpassed Sasori, it's naive to think otherwise when the manga (kishi) actually says so.

This is so debatable... Ok I'll keep it short: none of the Edo tensei impressed me so far and most of them should have. That simple. To me, this proves that edo tensei shinobi do not function at 100%. Or I would say that when they were alive they knew how to push their limits.

Sakura beat sasori with help from that old woman, how can anyone say that he is stronger than Gaara lol

No

 

[Punk Hazard]

i agree with you, but i think the correct thing to say is the greatest the sand ever had since he died

 

[YetiCrab]

This is so debatable... Ok I'll keep it short: none of the Edo tensei impressed me so far and most of them should have. That simple. To me, this proves that edo tensei shinobi do not function at 100%. Or I would say that when they were alive they knew how to push their limits.


No

I feel the same way, the edo-tensei's surely seem weaker, and doesn't get as much screentime as earlier. This might be because kishi already has shown us what they where capable of when they were alive, and doesn't want to repeat himself too much. He just want to show us how much the living shinobi has improved, and uses the "old" bosses likes kakuzu, sasori, itachi and so on as comparisment. (just a wild guess)

 

[Jae Dong180]

If people will say Sasori is weak because he lost to Sakura and a old lady

Then.

Is it fair for me to think Kisame is weak because he lost to Gai?

 

[BigTDogg220]

It's all about matchups though. If the Akatsuki members squared off in battle, the matchup would determine the victor. Sasori is certainly strong and he could defeat many different characters but he lost to Sakura and Chiyo...at the same time idk if Kakashi and Naruto would have been able to beat him. At the same point Gaara would totally destroy Sakura and Chiyo because their strengths are a poor matchup against Gaara. Sasori would likely be wrecked by Nagato and Itachi while being able to really mess up someone like Hidan, no blood no curse jutsu...that means Hidan is left in pieces.

You can't ignore the fact that different matchups lead to different results. It's not so simple to say one character is stronger than another.

As far as Sasori being the strongest in the Sand Village, I agree that while he was alive he was likely the strongest. If Gaara transformed in full Shukaku mode I don't know how easily Sasori would win...his poison would be pointless and his puppets would be in pieces. Sasori has enough experience to come out on top there but it's not so easily a sure thing.

If people will say Sasori is weak because he lost to Sakura and a old lady

Then.

Is it fair for me to think Kisame is weak because he lost to Gai?

Why would Kisame be considered weak for losing to Guy? Guy opened the 7th Gate and nailed him with it's jutsu. Guy would wreck Sakura and Chiyo along with most of the members of the Leaf and other villages in all out battle. Guy is one of the stronger characters in the series so I don't see how that relates.

 

[Guildmage]

okay... straight tp the point.....
Sasori is simply a monster EVEN WITHIN AKATSUKI
why?

yah true hidan is immortal and?? he can still get his head cut-off while fighting 100 puppets, WHICH HIDAN DOES NOT HAS THE SPEED TO DEFEAT THEM ALL...... Sasori Wins

Kakuzu...... High pressured water and fire will work to fight kakuzu and the 100 puppets will work as a good shield to protect him from the wind style attacks?? oh and 3rd kazekage?? DAMN THATS OVERKILL...... Sasori Wins

Kisame...... If kisame uses the water dome thing....... it's over for kisame... wanna know why? because as we could see during chiyo+sakura vs sasori fight, sasori could even melt rocks with his fire attack..... So..... What do you want to say with this? Water+Really hot fire?= Boiling water= Kisame=Broiled Fish??.... OR SASORI CAN USE HIGH PRESSURED WATER TO GET OUT OF THE DOME FAST USING IT AS A JETPACK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT..... Sasori wins

Zetsu..... okay first of all what technique zetsu is going to steal from sasori's puppets as we all have seen zetsus are not the fighting type so even D-Rank puppets that sasori uses can defeat 100 zetsus each at least and that without counting the poison mist to take down A BIG BUNCH OF THEM...... Sasori wins

Konan..... fire= takes down paper easily...... high pressured water= wet paper= heavy so KONAN= owned.... her only way to win is if she prepares herself and makes another sea of paper bombs.... Sasori wins

Orochimaru..... I don't know how Sasori can pull this...... but it was stated that Sasori was Orochimaru's Senior partner and supposedly stronger than oro. Third kazekage with iron sand can crush the summons but edo tensei??........not sure 60% sasori--40%oro

Deidara...... Another which I don't have idea how he will do this but Sasori is the senior parter while deidara is the junior so MAYBE he can pull this one too........ not sure
50%sasori--50%deidara

Itachi....... Since Sasori does not have nerve sense since he's a puppet Genjutsu won't work..... And amaterasu....Sasori can use 1 of his hundred puppets as shields...... Sasori's downfall will be Susanoo which will seal him....... Itachi wins via. susanoo

Pain...... Deva Path solos... perfect example? how he took down the whole hanzo and danzo army..... and Konoha too so numbers are not a factor and poison won't do much since.... Pain are dead bodies.....

Madara..... Teleport's Sasori to another dimension and let him rot there......

HONESTLY I WOULD PUT SASORI BELOW ITACHI BUT ABOVE ALL OTHERS..... MOST LIKELY IN NUMBER 4........ THAT SASORI GOT BEATEN BY CHIYO AND SAKURA??? AND WHO ARE YOU TO SAY THAT CHIYO IS NOT A MONSTER??? CHIYO HERSELF COULD BE COMPARED WITH TSUNADE AND SHE'S A RETIRED JOUNIN TOO..... SHE KNOWS THE PUPPETS STYLES AND STUFF AND WITH SAKURA'S STRENGHT TO FILL THE STRENGHT THAT CHIYO'S PUPPETS DON'T HAVE THATS PERFECT TO BREAK THROUGH SASORI'S TECHNIQUES.......... AND EVEN THERE SASORI MADE A GOOD MATCH..... So please don't come like sasori is the weakest and is not worth of anything.......

 

[Jae Dong180]

It's all about matchups though. If the Akatsuki members squared off in battle, the matchup would determine the victor. Sasori is certainly strong and he could defeat many different characters but he lost to Sakura and Chiyo...at the same time idk if Kakashi and Naruto would have been able to beat him. At the same point Gaara would totally destroy Sakura and Chiyo because their strengths are a poor matchup against Gaara. Sasori would likely be wrecked by Nagato and Itachi while being able to really mess up someone like Hidan, no blood no curse jutsu...that means Hidan is left in pieces.

You can't ignore the fact that different matchups lead to different results. It's not so simple to say one character is stronger than another.

As far as Sasori being the strongest in the Sand Village, I agree that while he was alive he was likely the strongest. If Gaara transformed in full Shukaku mode I don't know how easily Sasori would win...his poison would be pointless and his puppets would be in pieces. Sasori has enough experience to come out on top there but it's not so easily a sure thing.



Why would Kisame be considered weak for losing to Guy? Guy opened the 7th Gate and nailed him with it's jutsu. Guy would wreck Sakura and Chiyo along with most of the members of the Leaf and other villages in all out battle. Guy is one of the stronger characters in the series so I don't see how that relates.

To be honest I think Guy was one of the more underrated characters until his confrontation with Kisame..I don't think many people believed he had the ability to take out a S-class criminal and what most people would consider one of the more stronger akatsuki members (I personally don't believe Kisame to be).

Anyways, I'm glad Kishi boosted Guy's powers because after his victory people give Guy a lot more respect and Guy is great comic relief.

On another note, good point on the matchups... Because Guy beats Kisame, but I think he would lose to Sasori..

This is what I like that Kishi has done. It is not the order in which a opponent is defeated that determines his value (not DBZ) and everyone seems to have some chance against another and its a lot about matchups.

Even Zabuza, whom was among the first killed, people would defend he can probably stand a chance against some of the current top ninjas. They probably have a point since he was on par with the great Kakashi.

 

[BigTDogg220]

HONESTLY I WOULD PUT SASORI BELOW ITACHI BUT ABOVE ALL OTHERS..... MOST LIKELY IN NUMBER 4........ THAT SASORI GOT BEATEN BY CHIYO AND SAKURA??? AND WHO ARE YOU TO SAY THAT CHIYO IS NOT A MONSTER??? CHIYO HERSELF COULD BE COMPARED WITH TSUNADE AND SHE'S A RETIRED JOUNIN TOO..... SHE KNOWS THE PUPPETS STYLES AND STUFF AND WITH SAKURA'S STRENGHT TO FILL THE STRENGHT THAT CHIYO'S PUPPETS DON'T HAVE THATS PERFECT TO BREAK THROUGH SASORI'S TECHNIQUES.......... AND EVEN THERE SASORI MADE A GOOD MATCH..... So please don't come like sasori is the weakest and is not worth of anything.......

Madara, Pain, and Itachi would all absolutely defeat Sasori. I also believe Kakuzu could beat Sasori. Not that he definitely would but the matchup isn't as favorable considering Kakuzu's battle knowledge, multiple hearts, and control of multiple chakra types. I think he'd do better against Sasori than Deidara.

I agree that he shouldn't be considered the weakest because the only reason he lost to Chiyo and Sakura is because of Chiyo's skill and knowledge of Sasori and the fact Sakura had antidotes to Sasori's poison. Take either of those factors away and the two of them are certainly dead.

 

[Turson]

Yup, Sasori was the most powerful shinobi Sunagakure ever produced. Gaara can surpass him though, seeing how Kishimoto favor new generation.

 

[Kakashi Fang]

Gaara all day.

 

[Guildmage]

honestly I don't doubt gaara may surpass sasori, but he's still not surpassed...... IMO

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

I think Gaara has a damn good chance against Sasori at his current level.

Think about this, if it wasn't for his environment, and having to use his sand to protect the village, he would have defeated Deidara (or drew with him, knowing Deidara's suicidal tendencies).

 

[kakashi vskwad]

Gaara has already surpassed everyone in the sand. If you read the manga you know this if you dont just be patient U_U